931 réponses à ce sujet

[Zulu_DFA]

jklinders wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

II Sl4sh3r II wrote...

smudboy wrote...

Oh, so the title of something explains it?  Thanks.  That's really not helping any argument on anything.  WE KNOW it's a flippin project to resurrect Shepard!  What, should I start reading the bible now?!

The title hints that they were using Lazarus microbes. It's the best explaination yet and you still deny it has anything to do with it?

No, I got the better explanation:

http://en.wikipedia....arus_Phenomenon

They just put whatever Shepard's the Blue Suns scratched off the Alchera surface, and waited until it woke up. 

So the rest of the money went to ...Miranda's wardrobe?

Close enough.

Yeah, if I were Wilson I'd go mad about it too.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Everybody should follow my lead and dismiss that comic's claims that Shepard was totally dead.

[Raxxman]

ReconTeam wrote...

Raxxman wrote...
Resurrection is far more likely than bipedal aliens that share fertility and body structure with us.

I disagree unless your creating zombies or clones which don't count.

Zombies are impossible.

Your arguement is weak.

[Zulu_DFA]

ReconTeam wrote...

Everybody should follow my lead and dismiss that comic's claims that Shepard was totally dead.

Except the comic never stated that Shepard was totally dead.

[smudboy]

II Sl4sh3r II wrote...

smudboy wrote...

Oh, so the title of something explains it?  Thanks.  That's really not helping any argument on anything.  WE KNOW it's a flippin project to resurrect Shepard!  What, should I start reading the bible now?!

The title hints that they were using Lazarus microbes. It's the best explaination yet and you still deny it has anything to do with it?

Please point to me in the narrative where they are using Lazarus microbes.

Nonsense.

I don't want every little detail, I want enough details to make me go "Oh, so that's how his brain get preserved?"  I'm trying to UNDERSTAND the narrative.  Throwing science my way and going "blahblahblahblah" means NOTHING.

Throwing science your way.. means nothing... right.. gotcha.. Then it's because a magically fairy came down and took him away in a pumpkin with wheels.

You're trying to make an argument, that because it has "Lazarus" in the title, it could relate to "Lazarus Microbes."

You know what: it could.  Guess what?  It doesn't.  This is a fantasy of yours, trying to make connections to whatever you're grasping at.  Even if this was the intention of the author, it was not explained, expanded, or given any exposition.  We were not given any hints.  We were not told or shown.  There was NOTHING to support this.  If the author wished us to believe in "Lazarus Microbes", they made damn well sure it wasn't referenced in any shape or form ANYWHERE in the narrative, using any literary device, cutscene, storetelling method, nada.  It's.  Not.  There.

If they had actually used the word, or rather phraze "Lazarus Microbe", then we'd go "wtf is a Lazarus Microbe?"  And then the onus would be on the audience to go do some homework.  That would be acceptable.  Calling the Lazarus Project means it's the Lazarus Project.

Meaning that guy from the bible who rose from the dead.  That's.  All.  If there was more to it, they'd have given us more.

You're making excuses for the narrative by quoting stuff no one has knowedge or competency of.

Obviously some people have competency of what the Lazarus microbe is.

Not the audience!  Keep making sh!t up chief.

Because we CAN POINT TO IT.

We can go "Look, it's that thing that transporrts things!"

As opposed to ME2's resurrection, we can't do JACK.

Uh, I believe I saw what the robotic arms were doing to Shepard at the beginning of the game. Just because we can't go back and see every bit of machinery isn't really a big deal.

I saw them inject him with, what I now believe is, the Lazarus microbes and most likely a variety of other drugs, which brought dead cells back to life.

Making sh!t up, keep it going chief.

I saw them using clamps to reinforce his bones.

That's good, what how does that explain how he got to that state, what they were doing, and how he was resurrected?  So they put some thingie on one of his thingies.  What are those thingies?  Does it have a name? Are they called...LAZARUS MICROBES?

See, you're just making sh!t up.  You have no idea how ridiculous this sounds.  Keep imagining this fantasy world you're in. I'm sure someone might buy it, because i'm SURE EVERYONE ELSE knows what Lazarus Microbe Clamp Thingies are ™.

I don't understand what is so hard to comprehend. Even without knowledge of what the microbe is, its not that unbelievable that in the future we'll have some drug that brings dead cells back to life.

Because the rest of the audience doesn't exist in your imagination?

WHAT DRUG?

WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

[Inquisitor Recon]

Raxxman wrote...
Zombies are impossible.

Your arguement is weak.

Zombies are possible and you are weak! You'll be among the first to be eaten.

[crimzontearz]

ok look it is very simple......



nearly everyone dislikes what Bioware did with Shepard dying, being resurrected and all. Bioware knows it. They must by now know that this particular segment of the plot was a very bad ide4a and let a lot of people down. Shielding themselves behind "that was our choice and we still think it was a super awesome idea" would make them seem just as moronic as Bungie seemed when they advocated the crappy ending in halo 2. I believe by now most people want is someone from Bioware to come out and say "guys we are sorry....we really ****ed up that one, it is a huge hole in our plot and it makes little sense, we will do better next time".



But guess what it is not going to happen...that is what Bioware did and it is how it is going to stay and hopefully it will not inflouence ME3. I learned the hard way and at my expenses that Bioware will never......EVER respond to direct issues like these ones unless their answer is a "non answer" meant to as a palliative OR with a show of force from one of the higher-ups coming in and basically telling people "this is Bioware's way and it's going to stay this way". We should all just move on.

[Fedowyn]

It's called "suspension of disbelief".

The story is taking place hundreds of years from now, with super-advanced technology. Just let it fly man.

[Ooga600]

Science FICTION

[smudboy]

Fedowyn wrote...

It's called "suspension of disbelief".

The story is taking place hundreds of years from now, with super-advanced technology. Just let it fly man.

I can assure you, I and many others' suspension of disbelief have been sufficiently flown.

[Clover Rider]

smudboy wrote...

Fedowyn wrote...

It's called "suspension of disbelief".

The story is taking place hundreds of years from now, with super-advanced technology. Just let it fly man.

I can assure you, I and many others' suspension of disbelief have been sufficiently flown.

Try the manga Franken Fran man you will have fun :innocent:.

[KainrycKarr]

Raxxman wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

Peepshow12 wrote...

Bringing someone back from the dead is the part you have a problem with when it comes to realism?

Not the blue alien chicks who can join their mind with any alien race they come across as part of a mating ritual and throw s***t across the room with it as well?

Not the legion of giant robo-squid ships sitting on the edge of the galaxy waiting until they can harvest the entire place of organics so they can feed their GIANT ROBO-BABIES?

Yeah ok that's your thing. More power to you and what not.

Nobody flippin' reads. These things you state are at least given SOME kind science FICTIONAL explanation, whereas the resurrection does NOT.

Um, no

Resurrection is far more likely than bipedal aliens that share fertility and body structure with us.

Did you even read what I said? It has nothing to do with likelihood, it has to do with resurrection, which a is big f***in deal, got completely brushed over, while things like bipedal aliens and whatnot received entire codex entries(and dev posts, for anyone that posted prior to ME2 being released)

Both things are unlikely, but one is drastically more important and relevant to a story, to existence, than the other, and of the two, you would expect that bringing back the dead would warrant an explanation before something as trivial as bipedal aliens.

Modifié par KainrycKarr, 21 juillet 2010 - 04:15 .

[Bogsnot1]

Last time I checked, ME2 was NOT the story of Humpty Dumpty.

For those of you who say ressurection is impossible, please, save all of our time, and go argue that with the fundamentalist christians.

[SandTrout]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

Last time I checked, ME2 was NOT the story of Humpty Dumpty.
For those of you who say ressurection is impossible, please, save all of our time, and go argue that with the fundamentalist christians.

Not really a valid point as the story of Christ's rezurection explicitly includes Divine Intervention. This discussion is that Cerberus should not be able to bring back the dead with science.

Honestly, it was a pretty bad plot-device, but it happened, so we'll just have to get on with it and hope it never happens again.

[SmokePants]

Yes, resurrection of a consciousness from extended brain death is impossible. So is faster-than-light travel without the consequences of backward time travel ruining the causal fabric of the universe. Whoops, better retcon the whole Mass Effect universe to taking place within our solar system. Better rename it, too, because Mass Effect will never be a thing.

[Nerdage]

Fedowyn wrote...

It's called "suspension of disbelief".

The story is taking place hundreds of years from now, with super-advanced technology. Just let it fly man.

Seconded. I enjoy being pedantic as much as the next person, but when I saw people throwing things around with their minds and noted how everything travels faster than light (I admit, that one had me muttering to myself), it seemed clear that they were more interested story-telling than science.

Considering it's far too late to change anything even if they wanted to, and considering all the parts of this game that are scientifically impossible, the only reason to pick any one in particular out is to show everybody that you've noticed something. Well clever you.

[Frank the Running Bugzepel]

Fedowyn wrote...

It's called "suspension of disbelief".

The story is taking place hundreds of years from now, with super-advanced technology. Just let it fly man.

*Claps* Have a cookie

[Illuminaut]

Aand here comes the pseudo-intellectuals looking for an excuse to be right to justify their sad, little existences. If you've got enough time to contemplate the complexities and mechanics of a plot device in a videogame to such an extent that you're applying literal scientific principles to a game based entirely on imagination (which, going by this blatent display of know-it-all douchebaggery, indicates that the OP has little of one themselves), you clearly need a hobby aside from raining on other people's parades.



Grow up, accept it's fiction and move on. Dolt.

[II Sl4sh3r II]

Illuminaut wrote...

Aand here comes the pseudo-intellectuals looking for an excuse to be right to justify their sad, little existences. If you've got enough time to contemplate the complexities and mechanics of a plot device in a videogame to such an extent that you're applying literal scientific principles to a game based entirely on imagination (which, going by this blatent display of know-it-all douchebaggery, indicates that the OP has little of one themselves), you clearly need a hobby aside from raining on other people's parades.

Grow up, accept it's fiction and move on. Dolt.

I. Love. You.

@ smud
I'm done arguing. You can believe you won. I really don't care. It's a fictional world in which we use FTL travel to get around from star system to star system within the Milky Way galaxy. All I can say is go play ARMA2 or something of the sort that tries to be as close to real life as it can be. Yes it's not an RPG, but I don't think theres an RPG out there that you'll be able to accept.

[Omicrone]

@Illuminaut: I don't think that many people would play Mass Effect if it were based entirely on imagination. There are some concepts which seem plausible in the next 200 years during which the game takes place. Hence why people want every single concept to be based on real science and that's what sparks those debates. Saying that ME universe is pure imagination is every bit as wrong as saying it's all based on real science.

[Illuminaut]

Omicrone wrote...

@Illuminaut: I don't think that many people would play Mass Effect if it were based entirely on imagination. There are some concepts which seem plausible in the next 200 years during which the game takes place. Hence why people want every single concept to be based on real science and that's what sparks those debates. Saying that ME universe is pure imagination is every bit as wrong as saying it's all based on real science.

A valid point, but lets consider the concept of technological foresight and prediction:

Predictions, based upon current levels of technology are still an concept engineered on the human imagination and the creative mind. Whether you think it or not, you are still imagining even if working on the concept of an educated guess.

I see it this way: We can continue to delve into semantics from this point forward, ripping apart each and every post for a reason to belittle the next post to join the fray or we can accept that Mass Effect is a work of FICTION and should not have to endure the stupidity of applying real, and in all honestly, utterly boring scientific concepts to it simply because someone decided to go and have an ego-trip and an attack of "Oh, gee, aren't I clever ? I made the developers look silly. Ha-ha! Look at me! Aren't I wonderful?"

I stand by my words: OP, you are, for all your book-worming, pesudo-intellectuality, a complete dolt and I pray you never inflict this kind of dull, uninspired and uncreative mentality on any offspring you might have in the future.

[smudboy]

Illuminaut wrote...

Aand here comes the pseudo-intellectuals looking for an excuse to be right to justify their sad, little existences. If you've got enough time to contemplate the complexities and mechanics of a plot device in a videogame to such an extent that you're applying literal scientific principles to a game based entirely on imagination (which, going by this blatent display of know-it-all douchebaggery, indicates that the OP has little of one themselves), you clearly need a hobby aside from raining on other people's parades.

Grow up, accept it's fiction and move on. Dolt.

And who are these pseudo-intellectuals?

What sad little existences do they have?  Would they equal yours on some level, since you also have the time and effort to put into your little existence your opinions on a BioWare forum?

ME is not based entirely on imagination.  That would be fantasy, or science fantasy. This is science fiction.  In order for the "fantasy" of science fiction to be believed, that is, for the audience to go "oh, you can throw things telepathically, sort of?" the narrative has to explain that in a number of ways.  It has.

Resurrection has not been explained.

It's science fiction, and it's not even good science fiction.  In case you didn't notice.  Super genius.

[Illuminaut]

smudboy wrote...

Illuminaut wrote...

Aand here comes the pseudo-intellectuals looking for an excuse to be right to justify their sad, little existences. If you've got enough time to contemplate the complexities and mechanics of a plot device in a videogame to such an extent that you're applying literal scientific principles to a game based entirely on imagination (which, going by this blatent display of know-it-all douchebaggery, indicates that the OP has little of one themselves), you clearly need a hobby aside from raining on other people's parades.

Grow up, accept it's fiction and move on. Dolt.

And who are these pseudo-intellectuals?

What sad little existences do they have?  Would they equal yours on some level, since you also have the time and effort to put into your little existence your opinions on a BioWare forum?

ME is not based entirely on imagination.  That would be fantasy, or science fantasy. This is science fiction.  In order for the "fantasy" of science fiction to be believed, that is, for the audience to go "oh, you can throw things telepathically, sort of?" the narrative has to explain that in a number of ways.  It has.

Resurrection has not been explained.

It's science fiction, and it's not even good science fiction.  In case you didn't notice.  Super genius.

If it's not good science fiction, as you so frankly put it: Why are you even here? Why did you even play?

Surely a mind of such infinite grace and mental agility such as yourself must be more than above simple peons such as myself, who simply tire of people droning out endless scientific theories and speculations and shooting holes in our gaming experiences.

You wanted to know where the pseudo-intellectuals are? You're one of them. You already shot down one forum-goer in your grand quest to be 'right', what's another on the pyre of your faultless ego?

No, the ressurection concept has not been explained, but  I for one am comfortable in my ignorant bliss to simply look it over as a device to keep the story moving. I 'm happy to experience the game, enjoy the thousands of man-hours put into it's creation and thank Bioware for their efforts in bringing me a memorable gaming experience.

So, here, have your little victory. Savor it while this thread drifts into antiquity and inevitable deletion. I've got better things to do with my time.

[smudboy]

Illuminaut wrote...
If it's not good science fiction, as you so frankly put it: Why are you even here? Why did you even play?

Yes.

Surely a mind of such infinite grace and mental agility such as yourself must be more than above simple peons such as myself, who simply tire of people droning out endless scientific theories and speculations and shooting holes in our gaming experiences.

I'm unfamiliar with these scientific theories.  I take a more literary approach to arguments.

You wanted to know where the pseudo-intellectuals are? You're one of them. You already shot down one forum-goer in your grand quest to be 'right', what's another on the pyre of your faultless ego?

I just argue.  When they make sh!t up, I remind them.  It's quite simple.  Also, my intelligence is actual knowledge, so I don't know how it can be "pseudo-intelligence."  Perhaps you know that my understanding of literary devices is false?  It is possible.

No, the ressurection concept has not been explained, but  I for one am comfortable in my ignorant bliss to simply look it over as a device to keep the story moving. I 'm happy to experience the game, enjoy the thousands of man-hours put into it's creation and thank Bioware for their efforts in bringing me a memorable gaming experience.

I too am comfortable, but not out of ignorant bliss.  There are flaws.  If there were no flaws, I'd have no need to sit on a forum, nodding heads with all the other positive people who have only the same opinion to share.  This works for you.  Or maybe through your ignorant bliss you like name calling.  This is interesting.

So, here, have your little victory. Savor it while this thread drifts into antiquity and inevitable deletion. I've got better things to do with my time.

Why would this forum be deleted?  The topic will just be brought up later, anyway.

Oh have fun then.