931 réponses à ce sujet

[JohnnyBeGood2]

smudboy wrote...

statesman1114 wrote...
Hey, instead of just ****ing about something you can't change, howsabout you think about reasons they might have made the scene the way they did. Maybe they kept it ambiguous because they had no idea how to bring someone back from the dead? Maybe he didn't entirely die? Look at the Princess Bride, the man in black was only "mostly" dead. So instead of whining, be a good human and shut your mouth about things you don't know about?

What does changing anything have to do with...anything?  We're making observations and coming up with creative understandings of how it could've worked.  If you don't like that then hey, take a breather, go for a walk, cause I ain't stopping on the comedy goldmine that are the holes in ME2's plot.
I fail to see what your reference to TPB means.  Actually I fail to see what you mean entirely.
But this is because you are dumb.  But I forgive you!
(Psst: there are literally dozens, (hundreds?) of ways how to tell a story on how to bring someone back from the dead in a sci-fi setting.  I personally don't recommend it, but writing a short story on the topic is no big deal.  You just gotta use your imagination and make sure you check your own work.)
(Hint: braaains.)

Smudboy, considering there's a goldmine of comedy in the plot, why is your post so lacking in humour?
Easy on the vile there boy!

[Raxxman]

smudboy wrote...

Raxxman wrote...

It's already been established that people have survived terminal velocity falls in real life.
It's therefore not really a stretch to imagine that Shepard didn't survive a terminal velocity fall, but remained largely in one piece.

Except Alchera does not have as much atmosphere, nor is as dense, as earth.

And that Shepard was moving at thousands of miles an hour before atmospheric entry.  (The higher in the atmosphere you are, the faster you travel as you eventually reach terminal velocity.)

And Shepard was already dead before impact, hitting a carbon and ice crust, which is not exactly a soft surface.

Actually, if you watch the intro movie again, you see that shepards actually starting atmospheric entry before the fadeout (as seen by the vapour trail being left behind). This is about 10/15 seconds from the explosion. While it's possible that there is a time dialation effect here, this doesn't seem to be the case. 

The planet is massively out of scale for this to happen, it's either the planet is the wrong size or it has an atmosphere several thousand miles thick.

[smudboy]

Raxxman wrote...

smudboy wrote...

Raxxman wrote...

It's already been established that people have survived terminal velocity falls in real life.
It's therefore not really a stretch to imagine that Shepard didn't survive a terminal velocity fall, but remained largely in one piece.

Except Alchera does not have as much atmosphere, nor is as dense, as earth.

And that Shepard was moving at thousands of miles an hour before atmospheric entry.  (The higher in the atmosphere you are, the faster you travel as you eventually reach terminal velocity.)

And Shepard was already dead before impact, hitting a carbon and ice crust, which is not exactly a soft surface.

Actually, if you watch the intro movie again, you see that shepards actually starting atmospheric entry before the fadeout (as seen by the vapour trail being left behind). This is about 10/15 seconds from the explosion. While it's possible that there is a time dialation effect here, this doesn't seem to be the case. 

The planet is massively out of scale for this to happen, it's either the planet is the wrong size or it has an atmosphere several thousand miles thick.

I've watched it enough.  I didn't see any red glow or whatever.  If there was anything resembling an earth like atmosphere, then Shepard's reduced to molecules.  Time dilation what now?

The size of the planet is not relevant.  What would a wrong sized planet...do?  What is relevant is the gravity (0.85 g)  and the atmospheric pressure (0.83 atm), because it is that pressure that would cause thigns to burn up.  Before that point Shepard is already traveling extremely fast, faster than the highest earth high altitude free-fall (714 mph/102,800 feet.)

[TheAzureVanguard]

I see smudboy is still trolling....

[smudboy]

TheAzureVanguard wrote...

I see smudboy is still trolling....

I see you don't have anything relevant to add to the discussion...

(Psst: elipsis.)

[Raxxman]

7:27, definite glow surrounding Shepard, ergo, in atmosphere. QED. TBH I haven't tried to calculate how high the atmosphere would be on the planet,



The time thing is just a directorial thing. For the viewer the time frame from Shepard being blown away from the Normandy (6:50) and Shepard starting to glow (7:27) is a little under 40 seconds. This would imply that the normandy was already in the upper atmosphere at the time of destruction.



And you have no idea about the ablative properties of Shepards armour. Repatedly saying he'd vapourise is a statement of ignorance, not inteligence.



The planet size thing is simple.



If (and I say if) Shepard is hitting the atmosphere then he's really close to the surface (like 50 to 100 miles off the surface). Yet during the the scene the planet looks like it's 1000's of miles away. Therefore their is a directorial error in the opening sequence. Either the planet is a lot lot closer than it's size suggests (IE the planet is too small) or atmosphereic entry effect is in error.



Either one is entirely plausable as both would be added for 'cool effect'

[smudboy]

Raxxman wrote...



7:27, definite glow surrounding Shepard, ergo, in atmosphere. QED. TBH I haven't tried to calculate how high the atmosphere would be on the planet,

There's something, but barely anything I can figure out what.  I still didn't see anything red.

The time thing is just a directorial thing. For the viewer the time frame from Shepard being blown away from the Normandy (6:50) and Shepard starting to glow (7:27) is a little under 40 seconds. This would imply that the normandy was already in the upper atmosphere at the time of destruction.

Ah?  The Normandy is in pieces.  I'm sure other pieces were already on their way to the planet.

And you have no idea about the ablative properties of Shepards armour. Repatedly saying he'd vapourise is a statement of ignorance, not inteligence.

I am quite ignorant to the ablative properties of Shepards armour, as are you.  Shepard would vaporize if the planet had a magnetosphere, which would constitute a complex Earth like atmosphere, which would involve a similar mesophere (where meteorites burn up), and a very odd ionosphere.   That is not ignorance, though definitely large heaping of stupdity.  We assume he crashed onto the planet due to the objects present, so we cannot argue there is a similar earth like atmosphere.  That is deduction.  Where they landed is a bit of a stretch.

The planet size thing is simple.

If (and I say if) Shepard is hitting the atmosphere then he's really close to the surface (like 50 to 100 miles off the surface). Yet during the the scene the planet looks like it's 1000's of miles away. Therefore their is a directorial error in the opening sequence. Either the planet is a lot lot closer than it's size suggests (IE the planet is too small) or atmosphereic entry effect is in error.

Either one is entirely plausable as both would be added for 'cool effect'

Okay.  Either way, Shepard's traveling at 1000s+ mph.  Kabloomie.

[Siansonea]

This thread is still going?

[wolfstanus]

smudboy wrote...

Raxxman wrote...



7:27, definite glow surrounding Shepard, ergo, in atmosphere. QED. TBH I haven't tried to calculate how high the atmosphere would be on the planet,

There's something, but barely anything I can figure out what.  I still didn't see anything red.

The time thing is just a directorial thing. For the viewer the time frame from Shepard being blown away from the Normandy (6:50) and Shepard starting to glow (7:27) is a little under 40 seconds. This would imply that the normandy was already in the upper atmosphere at the time of destruction.

Ah?  The Normandy is in pieces.  I'm sure other pieces were already on their way to the planet.

And you have no idea about the ablative properties of Shepards armour. Repatedly saying he'd vapourise is a statement of ignorance, not inteligence.

I am quite ignorant to the ablative properties of Shepards armour, as are you.  Shepard would vaporize if the planet had a magnetosphere, which would constitute a complex Earth like atmosphere, which would involve a similar mesophere (where meteorites burn up), and a very odd ionosphere.   That is not ignorance, though definitely large heaping of stupdity.  We assume he crashed onto the planet due to the objects present, so we cannot argue there is a similar earth like atmosphere.  That is deduction.  Where they landed is a bit of a stretch.

The planet size thing is simple.

If (and I say if) Shepard is hitting the atmosphere then he's really close to the surface (like 50 to 100 miles off the surface). Yet during the the scene the planet looks like it's 1000's of miles away. Therefore their is a directorial error in the opening sequence. Either the planet is a lot lot closer than it's size suggests (IE the planet is too small) or atmosphereic entry effect is in error.

Either one is entirely plausable as both would be added for 'cool effect'

Okay.  Either way, Shepard's traveling at 1000s+ mph.  Kabloomie.

So by your logic He will burn up when Sheps armor is made up of materials that are unknown in this world you have no idea how heat resistant it is and you also do not know how fatst Shep is moving for reentry. Mind you he got blown up and was sent backwards against the planets rotation then got bumped back into the rotation We also do not know hor fast the Normandy was going during this time wich plays a part in how fast Shep is going. Also terminal velocity is the fastest the object can go when falling as in can't go any faster.  we do not know what that is on that planet. We also do not know how high up the atmosphere is for that planet. We also don't know much else about the planet other than what’s given in the codex. we do know people have survived terminal velocity falls onto cement or at least their bodies have (and yes some have survived). We also do not know how fast he was traveling when he hit the planet where he hit the angle he hit etc. Also Shep from what we do know was badly burned his body was largely broken and he was pretty much just "Meat and tubes" and he had to be put in a stasis pod to be preserved. We also know it took 2 years to get him back to the point in the game when it begins billions upon billions of credits he died a few times during this time. And yes he did enter the atmosphere that glow didn't come out of his ass just because he farted.

I am a whale biologist. I know these things.

Modifié par wolfstanus, 26 juillet 2010 - 06:26 .

[Dougy Phresh]

Christmas Ape wrote...

Hear hear!
Additionally, I wish to stand once and for all against the utterly preposterous notion that any vehicle heavier than air would be capable of flying under its own power!
Good day, gentlemen!

One of the most funniest things I have ever seen in a forum. That was great!

[i love lamp x3]

present the idea of an iphone to even isaac newton and see what he thinks. have plato watch the dark knight on an hdtv and take a look at his reaction. you can be the greatest scientific mind of your era and you can say what's possible and what isn't but the rules get broken rather often and such breakthroughs can't be foreseen or even fathomed. that's part of the point of setting it in the future. who's to say something isn't possible in the distant future?

[smudboy]

wolfstanus wrote...
So by your logic He will burn up when Sheps armor is made up of materials that are unknown in this world you have no idea how heat resistant it is and you also do not know how fatst Shep is moving for reentry.

If Shepard didn't burn up in the atmosphere, then they plumeted to the ground extremely fast, then yes that's what I'm saying.

Mind you he got blown up and was sent backwards against the planets rotation then got bumped back into the rotation

You're trying to tell me a random explosion put Shepard in sync with the planets' rotation?  Okay?

We also do not know hor fast the Normandy was going during this time wich plays a part in how fast Shep is going.

I say it's speed of the Normandy + Speed of explosion.

Also terminal velocity is the fastest the object can go when falling as in can't go any faster.

Terminal velocity, or 0 acceleration, is achieved when the force of gravity (we assume 8.33 g) is equal to the force of drag (air resistance.)  Thus terminal velocity is not a fixed number, it's merely when acceleration = 0.  So Shepard could be falling at a general rate (100 mph) or a very quick rate (1000s mph) and then achieve terminal velocity.  Considering the atmosphere is not as dense as Earth, the drag would be less, as would the pull of gravity (0.85 g).

  we do not know what that is on that planet. We also do not know how high up the atmosphere is for that planet. We also don't know much else about the planet other than what’s given in the codex. we do know people have survived terminal velocity falls onto cement or at least their bodies have (and yes some have survived). We also do not know how fast he was traveling when he hit the planet where he hit the angle he hit etc.

Yes, there's plenty of other factors, like angular velocity, the concentrations of methane and ammonia, the type of frozen ice/carbon they impacted on, etc.  The variables are staggering.

Also Shep from what we do know was badly burned his body was largely broken and he was pretty much just "Meat and tubes" and he had to be put in a stasis pod to be preserved. We also know it took 2 years to get him back to the point in the game when it begins billions upon billions of credits he died a few times during this time. And yes he did enter the atmosphere that glow didn't come out of his ass just because he farted.

Okay.

I am a whale biologist. I know these things.

Admiral.  There be whales here?

[Siansonea]

You people don't have enough to do. Go Outside And Play.

[smudboy]

Siansonea II wrote...

You people don't have enough to do. Go Outside And Play.

What if I'm busy detailing the social cultural impacts of interpersonal relationships between Shepard and Samara?

[wolfstanus]

smudboy wrote...
Admiral.  There be whales here?

Yes my boy there be whales here! Look there! it be whale! oh wait no.... just some Elcor... Well it to be whale of a sort.

Im a whale biologist

[Siansonea]

smudboy wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

You people don't have enough to do. Go Outside And Play.

What if I'm busy detailing the social cultural impacts of interpersonal relationships between Shepard and Samara?

It'll keep. Now run along, get some fresh air and exercise, and stop caring so much about the junk science in a video game. You'll be happier in the long run.

[Whatever42]

Only to those who will accept poor writing passively. If Bioware has trouble with the little bit of constructive criticism I have made in this topic then I should probably send them a bottle of Johnson and Johnson no more tears shampoo and an exhortion to grow up. Any professional person that does not try to improve on their mistakes deserves their eventual demise. What are they going to do? Ban me? For what? Saying that a a poorly written openening scene is poorly written?

To be clear I do not care at all about the Science. The science of the Mass Effrect is completely broken as it is. The problem I have is how bringing the dead back to life is completely out of line with the rest of the setting. And even that would be fine if the rest of the universe reacted as if it was as shocking as it would be.

We get none of that, and I can only conclude that one of 2 things happened.
1: The writing team ran out of time and decided to run with one of the biggest cliches in literature. But then had no     time to make it make sense.
or 2:Thety were too incompetent to come up with a way to force the whole Shepard Cerberus angle without it.

Take your pick, the writing around this sucked both ways. As a consumer, I see no harm in telling them that. I want them to do better after all.

The major problem people flame you is not because they object to criticism of Bioware. Its your black or white position. So Shepard being reconstructed after such a fate is unbelievable. Whatever. Its a sci fi universe so people just shrug that off as some sort of super-futuristic quantum reconstruction/cloning/memory grafting/whatever and move on.

The characters are deep. The dialogue is excellent. The subplots are fascinating. The depth of the world construction is awesome. The settings are beautiful. The story is standard fare but there is some excellent drama in there. Some story elements, like the elusive man and cerberus, I find very entertaining.

Sure, the pacing is off and the story could have used a little editting. Sure, its a little cheesy in places with Shepard surviving and people running around without pressure suits. This is par for a lot of space opera movies and television.

However, for you the writing sucked because Shepard being rebuilt is unbelievable. Well, the vast majority of players couldn't disagree with you more strongly. Well, I agree you shouldn't put up with poor writing. Go find some good writing. Or better yet, write and publish your own story and show us how its done.

[smudboy]

Mwahaha.

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...
The major problem people flame you is not because they object to criticism of Bioware. Its your black or white position. So Shepard being reconstructed after such a fate is unbelievable. Whatever. Its a sci fi universe so people just shrug that off as some sort of super-futuristic quantum reconstruction/cloning/memory grafting/whatever and move on.

It's the lack of exposition that makes it unbelievable, coupled with the 3 things they need to address in clarity (death, preservation and resurrection.)  A writer can come up with any zany idea.  It's how it's presented that helps with the whole illusion they're giving.

And people who did that with their imaginations (and however) are...very odd people.

The characters are deep. The dialogue is excellent. The subplots are fascinating. The depth of the world construction is awesome. The settings are beautiful. The story is standard fare but there is some excellent drama in there. Some story elements, like the elusive man and cerberus, I find very entertaining.

But they're pointless.
But it isn't directed to the main plot, so it's frivolous.
Who cares about subplots, especially if it's not related, connected or shown to be of any value?
I'm not sure what you mean by depth of world construction, but if you mean it's a big colorful world, then sure.
The story isn't standard fare, it's simply there.
There are some great pieces of drama, but definitely not with the protagonist or main characters.
I like TIMmy too.  I just wish he wasn't a bonehead.

Sure, the pacing is off and the story could have used a little editting. Sure, its a little cheesy in places with Shepard surviving and people running around without pressure suits. This is par for a lot of space opera movies and television.

Ho ho ho!
A little editing?  That's like saying the Titanic could use a little repair work.

However, for you the writing sucked because Shepard being rebuilt is unbelievable. Well, the vast majority of players couldn't disagree with you more strongly. Well, I agree you shouldn't put up with poor writing. Go find some good writing. Or better yet, write and publish your own story and show us how its done.

The vast majority of players are too busy pew-pew-pewing to ask "why", to start looking at the storytelling elements as being of greater value than what bullet upgrade to get next.

I think people are doing a decent job on here voicing their opinion.  I can rightfully say ME2 doesn't make me want to bust out my keyboard for some good ol sci-fi short story writing.

[jklinders]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Only to those who will accept poor writing passively. If Bioware has trouble with the little bit of constructive criticism I have made in this topic then I should probably send them a bottle of Johnson and Johnson no more tears shampoo and an exhortion to grow up. Any professional person that does not try to improve on their mistakes deserves their eventual demise. What are they going to do? Ban me? For what? Saying that a a poorly written openening scene is poorly written?

To be clear I do not care at all about the Science. The science of the Mass Effrect is completely broken as it is. The problem I have is how bringing the dead back to life is completely out of line with the rest of the setting. And even that would be fine if the rest of the universe reacted as if it was as shocking as it would be.

We get none of that, and I can only conclude that one of 2 things happened.
1: The writing team ran out of time and decided to run with one of the biggest cliches in literature. But then had no     time to make it make sense.
or 2:Thety were too incompetent to come up with a way to force the whole Shepard Cerberus angle without it.

Take your pick, the writing around this sucked both ways. As a consumer, I see no harm in telling them that. I want them to do better after all.

The major problem people flame you is not because they object to criticism of Bioware. Its your black or white position. So Shepard being reconstructed after such a fate is unbelievable. Whatever. Its a sci fi universe so people just shrug that off as some sort of super-futuristic quantum reconstruction/cloning/memory grafting/whatever and move on.

The characters are deep. The dialogue is excellent. The subplots are fascinating. The depth of the world construction is awesome. The settings are beautiful. The story is standard fare but there is some excellent drama in there. Some story elements, like the elusive man and cerberus, I find very entertaining.

Sure, the pacing is off and the story could have used a little editting. Sure, its a little cheesy in places with Shepard surviving and people running around without pressure suits. This is par for a lot of space opera movies and television.

However, for you the writing sucked because Shepard being rebuilt is unbelievable. Well, the vast majority of players couldn't disagree with you more strongly. Well, I agree you shouldn't put up with poor writing. Go find some good writing. Or better yet, write and publish your own story and show us how its done.

A story is made or broken on it's introduction. The first 5 minutes of the game present us with something completely out of synch with the rest of the setting. You do not find this silly? For the record, no one in this thread has flamed yet, surprisingly that has included you. Don't worry I can recognise my own posts without you managing to include my handle in it.
There were other ways to bring the Cerberus and TIM into the story. They did not use them. For example, when the council tries to sweep the reapers under the rug and Shep refuses to play ball, they revoke his Spectre status and TIM contacts him with an offer Shep cannot refuse. I just came up with that on the fly and it is 1110x times more believable.
Mid game pacing is actually pretty bad. I am slogging my way through a playthrough right now. The loyalty missions slow things down a lot.
On your last point, give me a bloody break. Did someone come down on a cloud and give you the right to look down your nose so much on opinions you disagree with. No one is saying you have to be here. If my opinions offend you feel free to skip my posts.

[Raxxman]

I'm of the opinion they killed Shepard to make the Collectors seem more 'badass'. I mean Shepard took down a horde of Geth, a Giant plant, Saren and a reaper. But these guys took him down.



Sadly I feel this failed somewhat because they come across as poor antagonists imo.

[Spornicus]

Can't we all agree to disagree? I mean, everybody on this forum is way to stubborn to ever change their opinion about any part of the game, and they'll pull reasons and accusations out of their ass and constantly contradict themselves, just so they can ardently defend their opinion. OPINION. An opinion can't be right or wrong, so what are you people expecting: if you argue with someone enough, they'll experience some kind of epiphany from your droning rhetoric that will make them change their mind completely?



Seriously people, play the ****ing game, and if you don't like it, don't play it. And don't **** out people who enjoy it.

[mctiger]

all i gota say about this is this is a game

[smudboy]

Spornicus wrote...

Can't we all agree to disagree? I mean, everybody on this forum is way to stubborn to ever change their opinion about any part of the game, and they'll pull reasons and accusations out of their ass and constantly contradict themselves, just so they can ardently defend their opinion. OPINION. An opinion can't be right or wrong, so what are you people expecting: if you argue with someone enough, they'll experience some kind of epiphany from your droning rhetoric that will make them change their mind completely?

Seriously people, play the ****ing game, and if you don't like it, don't play it. And don't **** out people who enjoy it.

I don't recall **** out people who enjoy it.  If you like something, more power to you.

We're the ones making observations and coming to conclusions that sound bizarre because we can't understand what's going on.  Because the narrative is unclear.  It's those who enjoy the game to odd levels, trying to defend it in some capacity, who at times make ridiculous claims.

[Spornicus]

smudboy wrote...

Spornicus wrote...

Can't we all agree to disagree? I mean, everybody on this forum is way to stubborn to ever change their opinion about any part of the game, and they'll pull reasons and accusations out of their ass and constantly contradict themselves, just so they can ardently defend their opinion. OPINION. An opinion can't be right or wrong, so what are you people expecting: if you argue with someone enough, they'll experience some kind of epiphany from your droning rhetoric that will make them change their mind completely?

Seriously people, play the ****ing game, and if you don't like it, don't play it. And don't **** out people who enjoy it.

I don't recall **** out people who enjoy it.  If you like something, more power to you.

We're the ones making observations and coming to conclusions that sound bizarre because we can't understand what's going on.  Because the narrative is unclear.  It's those who enjoy the game to odd levels, trying to defend it in some capacity, who at times make ridiculous claims.

You're arguing that something that takes place in the future is impossible. You're an idiot.

I need to stop looking at this thread, it's destroying my sanity.