931 réponses à ce sujet

[CroGamer002]

aimlessgun wrote...

I think what's the most bothersome thing about the whole "back from the dead" plot is that it is SO unecessary.

In sci-fi, you try to keep the ridiculous things to a minimum: if you keep things mostly realistic with only a few choice stretches of the imagination, it goes much better.

They brought in yet another suspension of disbelief for what payoff? So they could be like "OOOOH Sheperd DIES in ME2, SHOCKING (buy the game buy it buy it)". Basically a poor WRITING decision. THAT's what's wrong with it.

Coulda said "severely damaged". Coulda said "frozen in space". Had to say "DEAD".

[SpiderFan1217]

Shepard dying set up him working for Cererus. Had he not died, he would have done the same thing, but he would have done it as a Council Sponcered Spectre, and as we all know him working for Cerberus was one of the most important parts of the game.

[aimlessgun]

Real classy, original and well thought out rebuttal with the facepalm pic.

The destruction of the Normandy and the resurrection of Sheperd are very important for a lot of reasons.

Making sure to come out and say that he is "dead as dead can be" and showing the body burning up in the atmosphere is not important or necessary. You can have the whole resurrection sequence without straining credibility so much.

Modifié par aimlessgun, 19 juillet 2010 - 08:47 .

[CroGamer002]

m14567 wrote...

I don't think what he said is that bad, if you focus on the message rather than the delivery.  What exactly was the point of Shepard dying? Is there any point to it? Is it just some way to reset Shepard? There is a video on youtube of some guy saying that they killed Shepard at the start as a way of showing the player that universe isn't safe. I seriously hope that is not why they did it.

Here's the point.
So we can have character creation, meet "join" Cerberus, so we don't ask ourself what Shepard did in past 2 years, reason why Shepard responded now on Collectors abducting colonists, reason to dump LI for new one...

[Kroesis-]

aimlessgun wrote...
Coulda said "severely damaged". Coulda said "frozen in space". Had to say "DEAD".

Why do things by half measures when you can go the whole distance? I mean really what difference does it make? In todays science in cryogenics I believe they have yet to thaw a brain which has been frozen without catastrophic damage to it. So frozen in space would have killed him anyway (not forgetting the extent of all of the radiation bombarding his suit and body during the time to it took for them to find him and recover the body). Severely damaged? Well he was, but do you expect him to survive like that no food or water beyond that which his environmental suit provides until rescue came?

No, in fact death is probably the best way to deal with the situation, allow the story to continue from a different angle (Working with Cerberus) and it also meant that bioware could redo the levelling system and begin every new Shepard and ME1 imported Shepard from lvl 1 and cap it at 30.

Modifié par Kroesis-, 19 juillet 2010 - 08:49 .

[CroGamer002]

aimlessgun wrote...

Real classy, original and well thought out rebuttal with the facepalm pic.

The destruction of the Normandy and the resurrection of Sheperd are very important for a lot of reasons.

Making sure to come out and say that he is "dead as dead can be" and showing the body burning up in the atmosphere is not important or necessary.

[SpiderFan1217]

Mesina2 wrote...

*snip*

reason to dump LI for new one...

This, this. I like this one.

[aimlessgun]

Kroesis- wrote...

aimlessgun wrote...
Coulda said "severely damaged". Coulda said "frozen in space". Had to say "DEAD".

Why do things by half measures when you can go the whole distance? I mean really what difference does it make? In todays science in cryogenics I believe they have yet to thaw a brain which has been frozen without catastrophic damage to it. So frozen in space would have killed him anyway (not forgetting the extent of all of the radiation bombarding his suit and body during the time to it took for them to find him and recover the body). Severely damaged? Well he was, but do you expect him to survive like that no food or water beyond that which his environmental suit provides until rescue came?

No, in fact death is probably the best way to deal with the situation, allow the story to continue from a different angle (Working with Cerberus) and it also meant that bioware could redo the levelling system and begin every new Shepard and ME1 imported Shepard from lvl 1 and cap it at 30.

You don't feel that the whole distance is a little too far though? There's a big difference between "frozen in space for a few hours/days" and "burned through the atmosphere and crashed into the planet". You can imagine in your mind a reconstruction from the first scenario, since you have like, a body. The second scenario bothers at lot of people because what the heck are you even reconstructing?

PS: Wonder if Messina has a triple facepalm to complete his trolling hat trick?

Modifié par aimlessgun, 19 juillet 2010 - 08:54 .

[CroGamer002]

aimlessgun wrote...

Kroesis- wrote...

aimlessgun wrote...
Coulda said "severely damaged". Coulda said "frozen in space". Had to say "DEAD".

Why do things by half measures when you can go the whole distance? I mean really what difference does it make? In todays science in cryogenics I believe they have yet to thaw a brain which has been frozen without catastrophic damage to it. So frozen in space would have killed him anyway (not forgetting the extent of all of the radiation bombarding his suit and body during the time to it took for them to find him and recover the body). Severely damaged? Well he was, but do you expect him to survive like that no food or water beyond that which his environmental suit provides until rescue came?

No, in fact death is probably the best way to deal with the situation, allow the story to continue from a different angle (Working with Cerberus) and it also meant that bioware could redo the levelling system and begin every new Shepard and ME1 imported Shepard from lvl 1 and cap it at 30.

You don't feel that the whole distance is a little too far though? There's a big difference between "frozen in space for a few hours/days" and "burned through the atmosphere and crashed into the planet". You can imagine in your mind a reconstruction from the first scenario, since you have like, a body. The second scenario bothers at lot of people because what the heck are you even reconstructing?

PS: Wonder if Messina has a triple facepalm to complete his trolling hat trick?

1st not a troll
2nd Mesina2 not Messina, third largest city on Sicily. Nickname has nothing to do with that city.
3rd frozen in space but alive is retarded since THAT is imposible
4th Shepard didn't crash into planet

[aimlessgun]

Sorry, maybe I should have used the word "destroyed". In every scenario he is essentially dead, but they presented it without any mitigating circumstance that might make a reconstruction less of a stretch.



So you do agree that there's a big difference between lost in space and crashing into a planet. I'm interested, why do you say he didn't crash into the planet? The opening sequence clearly shows a re-entry burn effect. Do they say in the game, or has someone from Bioware stated that he bounced off the atmosphere or something?

[CroGamer002]

aimlessgun wrote...

The opening sequence clearly shows a re-entry burn effect.

Animator probably f*cked that up.

[CroGamer002]

Know what something.

I won't bother anymore.

This thread will become necro soon so why do I care.

[aimlessgun]

Haha ok. We'll agree on that.



Looking back my first post did sort of deserve a facepalm anyways. I guess my problem was mostly with exactly HOW he died, since obviously Lazarus is vital to rebooting face/LIs/Cerberus.

[Stephenc13]

Jigero wrote...

Lets see Mass Effect was set 100 + years in the future. Hmmmm lets see 100 years Ago the idea of putting a man on the moon was impossible, instantaneous communication on a global scale was impossible, splitting atoms to harness massive amounts of energy was impossible, and so on. If any thing time and time we constantly learn there is no such thing as "impossible".

First of all, Miranda said he was exposed to vacuum for prolonged periods which means he never fell into the planet.

Second of All. Cloning a blank brain then re inscribing memories would not be so hard to do in Mass Effect's Setting. Memories and Experience are psychically recorded in the brain, We now in this day in age are on the Verge of unlocking how these path ways work. Now given a 100+ years and also aided by advanced Prothean technology and a Race of Aliens (The Asari) who are capable of melding minds with humans and reading memories, By the time Mass Effect 2 rolls around Humans understanding of the human brain is probably infinite.

Now Shepard was in the military and with out a doubt was probably gone through regular medical checks where they probably more then a few times where able to brain scans and these brain scans probably carry ever bit of data one could know about Shepards brain and all it's pathways and make up. Cerberus being able to acquire this data would probably be a very easy thing for them.

So then how do we inscribe the memories back on to blank clone of Shepard's brain, well that's actually pretty easy, The Protheans had such technology, the Beacon was a perfect example of that. Not only them but with out a doubt the Reapers where probably capable of this too. Cerberus got to work with Sovereign's wreckage and probably recovered some of the reaper's tech And who's to say Cerberus wasn't able to reverse engineer some kind of tech that could shape a brain how they please.

So in conclusion with the combination of Prothean and Reaper Tech, and a basically perfect schematic of Shepard's brain, rebuilding it wouldn't have been impossible.

This is a perfect reason on how Shepard was revived.
It's also a perfect example of Science-Fiction. Which is the genre of Mass Effect


People need to understand that there is no such thing as plain Science when it comes to space or the future.
Aliens are an example of Science-Fiction. Scientifically, they can be there, but we speculate on what they look like (Fiction)

[Mariah5]

Mass Effect has hundreds of plot holes and this is the one that you object to? Everyone ignores (or, occasionally, affectionately mocks) the inconsistencies because the overall story is entertaining. Just suspend your disbelief for a while, it will make the game a lot funner.

[Bebbe777]

Its impossible to go to the moon because scientist said that 200 years ago. My God. Change reality ffs!

[Raizo]

Teknor wrote...

Oh god, another person with inability to suspend disbelief.

LMAO

For what it's worth we don't know what the technology is like in the ME timeline. For all we know Cerebus might have found a way to bring Shepard back to life.

I personally believe there is more to Shepard's ressurection than what Cerebus is telling us. He is either a cyborg or a clone but I think ME1's shepard is truly dead and gone.

[Hepzi3]

In 200 years, we will know everything there is to know about physics. We will know how and why gravity exists and why it works.(And,to be honest with you, if you think we know ANYTHING about astrophysics ATM, you need youre head examined.)



Right now, we essentially dont know **** about the human brain. In the past 20-30 years, we are learning about it but there are still things we dont really understand. Why people go into coma's, well, to some degree we understand this. We dont know yet how to wake people up from coma's or why they continue.With so little knowledge of most bodily processes, what makes you think YOU know what is possible and what isnt?



Clearly though, the OP is from the future and knows things we dont.

[Kasen]

I wish Bioware had gone with reviving Shepard from a coma, which theoretically (the internet continues to amaze me though) would put this to rest.



The more I think about it (and I've not read the comics, so ignore this if it's in those), we're told that it was two years... most of which Shepard was in the lab. This would suggest that Shepard's body was retrieved pretty quickly - if true, Shepard's body could be placed in some form of statis or cryogenics to prevent "everything" from being lost. (I know some of it is also explained on Lazarus Station, but I don't recall it all right now)



I guess where I'm going with this is that we should all learn a lesson: Always wear your helmet when being ejected from a space vessel into the cold depths of space, plumetting through the atmosphere of a planet and being pancaked on its surface. That's the only possible explanation for the lack of dain bramage.

[smudboy]

Ksandor wrote...

I don't know about a retcon, as that's a sign of bad writing (shhh), but exposition would be great.  Little late, I think, but definitely not forgotten.

God forbid Shepard's resurrection could have something to do with character development.

[Christmas Ape]

I still have yet to actually see this 're-entry burn'. I'm pretty sure people are seeing the destruction of the bow section in upper atmosphere.