931 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

So that while we can argue that some physically impossible things are perfectly justifiable and sensible if you hide them behind the label of 'super future science project', other things are so impossible that the very thought of defying them is laughable no matter how well funded the science project.



Can you imagine if this sort of argument were left to appear somewhere else? Just think of the consequences!

[Bruno Helms]

I once got a rock stuck in my nose. The doctor got it out with some pliers. Science. Have some faith man.

[AdamNW]

1) Takes place 150 years from now

2) The Mars beacon advanced our technology by over 400 years



Thus, 550 years and 4 billion credits. Sounds feasible enough.

[Rip504]

Dusty Everman wrote...

I just want to give a comment about the Normandy SR-1 or Shepard burning up in the atmosphere.



We usually think of re-entry into an atmosphere as a massive event of heat and fire. This is due to the speeds of the object entering the atmosphere. Meteors fly in at amazing speeds. For example, the Leonid shooting stars hit the earth at more than 160000 mph. Space vessels and satellites orbit the earth at speeds from 6000 mph to 18000 mph. This is obviously much faster than terminal velocity, so the atmosphere slows down the object with a friction that generates the intense heat.



The Normandy wasn’t in orbit around that planet. After the combat that occurred, the ship was relatively at a standstill above the planet. The ship and Shepard did a free fall straight down into the planet (yep, orbit gives weightlessness, but if you aren’t in orbit and within the gravity well of a planet, there is gravity!).



I don’t have the time (or the knowledge of physics) to calculate just how fast the Normandy and Shepard would have been when they hit the thick of the atmosphere and were brought to terminal velocity. Maybe a physics-savy fanactic… err, I mean fan… could make some assumptions and do the math .

[Homebound]

SandTrout wrote...

A wizard did it.

Lets just go with that and call it a thread.

[timj2011]

Modifié par timj2011, 27 août 2010 - 10:11 .

[DPSSOC]

Rip504 wrote...

Dusty Everman wrote...

I just want to give a comment about the Normandy SR-1 or Shepard burning up in the atmosphere.

We usually think of re-entry into an atmosphere as a massive event of heat and fire. This is due to the speeds of the object entering the atmosphere. Meteors fly in at amazing speeds. For example, the Leonid shooting stars hit the earth at more than 160000 mph. Space vessels and satellites orbit the earth at speeds from 6000 mph to 18000 mph. This is obviously much faster than terminal velocity, so the atmosphere slows down the object with a friction that generates the intense heat.

The Normandy wasn’t in orbit around that planet. After the combat that occurred, the ship was relatively at a standstill above the planet. The ship and Shepard did a free fall straight down into the planet (yep, orbit gives weightlessness, but if you aren’t in orbit and within the gravity well of a planet, there is gravity!).

I don’t have the time (or the knowledge of physics) to calculate just how fast the Normandy and Shepard would have been when they hit the thick of the atmosphere and were brought to terminal velocity. Maybe a physics-savy fanactic… err, I mean fan… could make some assumptions and do the math .

all I need are the rough mass of the planet as well as estimates on Shepards distance from the atmosphere and planet centre.  Given 2 masses (assuming average adult male mass for Shepard + 30 lbs for gear) and the distance between them you can find the force of gravity acting between them with the formula

F= G[(m1)(m2)/d^2]
Force equals the first mass times the second mass divided by the displacement between them squared all times the gravitational constant.

from which you can determine accelleration with the formula

F=ma
Force equals mass times accelleration

 and using accelleration and distance calculate the velocity of the object using the formula

vf^2 = vi + 2a(delta d)
we'll assume (for simplicities sake) that vi is 0
so vf^2 = 2a(delta d)

velocity equals 2 times accelleration times the change in displacement

[Moiaussi]

There is more to it than just Shep being resurrectable (which is pretty unbelievable without an intact brain). How is it that his body ended up in planetfall like that in the first place?

The Normandy was not stationary when the Collector vessel appeared. It was moving away and accelerating. Then it was taking evasive manuvers, but still, it was hit from behind, which should have accelerated it further.

Its engines were not dead yet as the crew began evac, so it should have still been accelerating. Then it was hit from above and behind. That should have sent it towards the atmosphere, but instead it ends up drifting slowly in space? It should have been well beyond the planet by then.

At the very least it would have still been orbitting when Shep rescued Joker. Strangely, despite all the other scenes, when Shep does his little space walk across the exposed section of the ship, the planet seems motionless. The debris drifts away, but not the planet. It is possible that the planet simply had a very fast rotation I suppose....

At any rate, Shep should have been shot out with the Normandy's velocity, parallel to the ship, which should have still been travelling at very high velocity (since there was nothing to decelerate it, and if anything the hits it took should have sped it up). Shep should have shot off into space, or at best, hit planet far harder than his suit could have compensated for, and given its seals were seemingly gone, his cells would have been completely ash.

If there was something to recover, why didn't the Alliance recover him? Joker didn't actually see him shot towards the planet, and the rest of the crew were long gone, so there presumably would have been some sort of search by whatever vessel rescued the pods. Why wasn't he brought back for proper burial if there was anything to bring back?

For that matter, given the level of investment, why was the Lazurus base abandoned so quickly? ME3... Return of Saren?

[Moiaussi]

Rip504 wrote...

The Normandy wasn’t in orbit around that planet. After the combat that occurred, the ship was relatively at a standstill above the planet. The ship and Shepard did a free fall straight down into the planet (yep, orbit gives weightlessness, but if you aren’t in orbit and within the gravity well of a planet, there is gravity!).

The Normandy was clearly in motion when the Collector vessel first hit it, so how did it stop? Are you saying when the ship took a hit Joker put on the emergency brake so they could get out and check the damage or something?

In fact the only shot that doesn't show motion with respect to the planet is the space walk scene (which is a very strange scene because Shep is (a) moving slower than he or she has in any other similar environment ( can't run, even though there is plenty of reason to do so, and © can stand there safely as long as he or she wants to, watching the bits of the Normandy drift towards the planet. I have been tempted to see just how long the animation for that goes with him just standing there....

Appearantly the Collector ship doesn't mind waiting for smoke breaks....

Other scenes relative velocity is tough to determine because we don't really know the time scale.

[KainrycKarr]

obiewamkenobi89 wrote...

Its a Science Fiction Game, everything is possible. give it a break

And thus the reason why most science fiction sucks giant flaming dripping....































bananas.

[Foolsfolly]

DPSSOC wrote...

Rip504 wrote...

Dusty Everman wrote...

I just want to give a comment about the Normandy SR-1 or Shepard burning up in the atmosphere.

We usually think of re-entry into an atmosphere as a massive event of heat and fire. This is due to the speeds of the object entering the atmosphere. Meteors fly in at amazing speeds. For example, the Leonid shooting stars hit the earth at more than 160000 mph. Space vessels and satellites orbit the earth at speeds from 6000 mph to 18000 mph. This is obviously much faster than terminal velocity, so the atmosphere slows down the object with a friction that generates the intense heat.

The Normandy wasn’t in orbit around that planet. After the combat that occurred, the ship was relatively at a standstill above the planet. The ship and Shepard did a free fall straight down into the planet (yep, orbit gives weightlessness, but if you aren’t in orbit and within the gravity well of a planet, there is gravity!).

I don’t have the time (or the knowledge of physics) to calculate just how fast the Normandy and Shepard would have been when they hit the thick of the atmosphere and were brought to terminal velocity. Maybe a physics-savy fanactic… err, I mean fan… could make some assumptions and do the math .

all I need are the rough mass of the planet as well as estimates on Shepards distance from the atmosphere and planet centre.  Given 2 masses (assuming average adult male mass for Shepard + 30 lbs for gear) and the distance between them you can find the force of gravity acting between them with the formula

F= G[(m1)(m2)/d^2]
Force equals the first mass times the second mass divided by the displacement between them squared all times the gravitational constant.

from which you can determine accelleration with the formula

F=ma
Force equals mass times accelleration

 and using accelleration and distance calculate the velocity of the object using the formula

vf^2 = vi + 2a(delta d)
we'll assume (for simplicities sake) that vi is 0
so vf^2 = 2a(delta d)

velocity equals 2 times accelleration times the change in displacement

You're in luck! BioWare provides the info on the planet thanks to the Normandy Crash Site mission! This is from the Mass Effect wiki:

Orbital Distance:
9.5 AU


Orbital Period: 29.4
Earth Years


Keplerian Ratio: 0.992


Radius: 9,229 km


Day Length: 59.2 Earth
Hours


Atm. Pressure: 0.83
atm


Surface Temp: −22 °C


Surface Gravity: 0.85 g


Mass: 1.767 Earth
Masses


Satellites: 3
Sadly, we don't know exactly how far Shepard was from the planet (apparently close enough that he's in the gravity of the planet according to the mod in this thread) or the force of the explosion (which the mod says didn't happen but the video of the beginning shows since it propels Shepard into a wall and he then goes ricocheting into space clearly being propelled away from the ship's pieces that were just "breaking apart").

Moiaussi wrote...

Rip504 wrote...

The
Normandy wasn’t in orbit around that planet. After the combat that
occurred, the ship was relatively at a standstill above the planet. The
ship and Shepard did a free fall straight down into the planet (yep,
orbit gives weightlessness, but if you aren’t in orbit and within the
gravity well of a planet, there is gravity!).

The
Normandy was clearly in motion when the Collector vessel first hit it,
so how did it stop? Are you saying when the ship took a hit Joker put on
the emergency brake so they could get out and check the damage or
something?

In fact the only shot that doesn't show motion with
respect to the planet is the space walk scene (which is a very strange
scene because Shep is (a) moving slower than he or she has in any other
similar environment ( can't run, even though there is plenty of reason
to do so, and © can stand there safely as long as he or she wants to,
watching the bits of the Normandy drift towards the planet. I have been
tempted to see just how long the animation for that goes with him just
standing there....

Appearantly the Collector ship doesn't mind
waiting for smoke breaks....

Other scenes relative velocity is
tough to determine because we don't really know the time scale.

And that kills it.

Shepard's death and then resurrection are not science. It's pure fantasy and really bad writing. They needed a reason for Shepard to join Cerberus for their plot to work and they needed it to happen as quickly as possible so they pull out that Cerberus has resurrection technology but that they're only using it once and only for one guy.

I love Mass Effect 2 but that opening has always been a glaring problem. If we had to become a pawn for an evil organistation and we couldn't decide to join them....then they should have had an underhanded way to get us. They should have engineered the destruction of the Normandy and collected Shepard's body before it ever hit atmosphere.

Hell, they could have used one of the higher ups in the Alliance to call Shepard into a trap and then gased him and when he woke up with Miranda looking over him she could tell him any lie she wanted to get him on their side.

A secret powerful covert agency needs to ensnare our hero into their macinations and BioWare somehow couldn't think of a decent way to do it. So BAM dead and a comic book later Shepard's the only person ever to be resurrected via Cerberus, technology that's destroyed conviently when the plot requires it.

Technology that he plot never needed since there could have been dozens of better more thought out ways to get Shepard to join Cerberus.

[Moiaussi]

There have been comments suggesting that the original plan was for Shep to have been recovered from the Geth instead of Cerberus, but they changed plans.

I think they killed Shep off for shock value, but it backfired on them. It wasn't shocking, it was closer to insulting.

[DPSSOC]

Foolsfolly wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

Rip504 wrote...

Dusty Everman wrote...

I just want to give a comment about the Normandy SR-1 or Shepard burning up in the atmosphere.

We usually think of re-entry into an atmosphere as a massive event of heat and fire. This is due to the speeds of the object entering the atmosphere. Meteors fly in at amazing speeds. For example, the Leonid shooting stars hit the earth at more than 160000 mph. Space vessels and satellites orbit the earth at speeds from 6000 mph to 18000 mph. This is obviously much faster than terminal velocity, so the atmosphere slows down the object with a friction that generates the intense heat.

The Normandy wasn’t in orbit around that planet. After the combat that occurred, the ship was relatively at a standstill above the planet. The ship and Shepard did a free fall straight down into the planet (yep, orbit gives weightlessness, but if you aren’t in orbit and within the gravity well of a planet, there is gravity!).

I don’t have the time (or the knowledge of physics) to calculate just how fast the Normandy and Shepard would have been when they hit the thick of the atmosphere and were brought to terminal velocity. Maybe a physics-savy fanactic… err, I mean fan… could make some assumptions and do the math .

all I need are the rough mass of the planet as well as estimates on Shepards distance from the atmosphere and planet centre.  Given 2 masses (assuming average adult male mass for Shepard + 30 lbs for gear) and the distance between them you can find the force of gravity acting between them with the formula

F= G[(m1)(m2)/d^2]
Force equals the first mass times the second mass divided by the displacement between them squared all times the gravitational constant.

from which you can determine accelleration with the formula

F=ma
Force equals mass times accelleration

 and using accelleration and distance calculate the velocity of the object using the formula

vf^2 = vi + 2a(delta d)
we'll assume (for simplicities sake) that vi is 0
so vf^2 = 2a(delta d)

velocity equals 2 times accelleration times the change in displacement

You're in luck! BioWare provides the info on the planet thanks to the Normandy Crash Site mission! This is from the Mass Effect wiki:

Orbital Distance:
9.5 AU


Orbital Period: 29.4
Earth Years


Keplerian Ratio: 0.992


Radius: 9,229 km


Day Length: 59.2 Earth
Hours


Atm. Pressure: 0.83
atm


Surface Temp: −22 °C


Surface Gravity: 0.85 g


Mass: 1.767 Earth
Masses


Satellites: 3
Sadly, we don't know exactly how far Shepard was from the planet (apparently close enough that he's in the gravity of the planet according to the mod in this thread) or the force of the explosion (which the mod says didn't happen but the video of the beginning shows since it propels Shepard into a wall and he then goes ricocheting into space clearly being propelled away from the ship's pieces that were just "breaking apart").

On further review I've recognized a small problem in my math.  It doesn't account for the fact that the closer Shepard get's the stronger the force of gravity the planet exerts on Shepard will be until it reaches .85g (surface gravity).  And unfortunately that's a big consideration considering in the formula for Gravitational force the force is inversely proportional to the displacemnt squared.  Meaning that if you halve the distance you quadruple the force.

Hmm must consult my physics nerds (been a while since I actually had to apply any of this stuff) and see how to take that into account.  Or would the increase in force be negligible given the distances we're dealing with?  Well  I'll work it out on paper and get back if it turns out the force variation is negligible as well as ironing out my assumptions for fall height, initial velocity and mass.

[Skyblade012]

You get to negate most of the force of the ship blowing up. Since the ship wasn't in an atmosphere, there wasn't enough matter to create a blast wave that would hit Shepard. Shepard would only be hit by shrapnel, not a concussion wave, and if the pieces were small enough and few enough, the energy they struck Shepard with would not provide enough force to continue Shepard's trip down.



Further, the initial detonation that forced Shepard out of the ship lost a lot of its power. We see Shepard strike at least two bulkheads before heading out into space, and possibly another piece of debris before she is clear. Each collision would absorb a great deal of Shepard's inital velocity, so that she heads towards the planet at a slower speed.



And then there is her leaky suit. Since the suit was leaking air, that air would act like a jet, propelling Shepard around, adding additional force in varying directions as Shepard contorted to try and reach it.



Of course, all of this talk of reentry is probably nonsense, since the Lazarus station talks about Shepard suffering deleterious effects from "long term" exposure to vacuum and a zero gravity environment. Which means she didn't head straight into the planet at any speed, and was likely orbiting above it for a while.

[Esbatty]

Shepard is Captain America in Space, deal with it. If comic book cap can survive a nuclear exploseion and some 50 odd years without freezer burn, then Shep can survive reentry, asphyxiation, and a few months worth of freezer burn.

[Moiaussi]

Skyblade012 wrote...

You get to negate most of the force of the ship blowing up. Since the ship wasn't in an atmosphere, there wasn't enough matter to create a blast wave that would hit Shepard. Shepard would only be hit by shrapnel, not a concussion wave, and if the pieces were small enough and few enough, the energy they struck Shepard with would not provide enough force to continue Shepard's trip down.

Further, the initial detonation that forced Shepard out of the ship lost a lot of its power. We see Shepard strike at least two bulkheads before heading out into space, and possibly another piece of debris before she is clear. Each collision would absorb a great deal of Shepard's inital velocity, so that she heads towards the planet at a slower speed.

And then there is her leaky suit. Since the suit was leaking air, that air would act like a jet, propelling Shepard around, adding additional force in varying directions as Shepard contorted to try and reach it.

Of course, all of this talk of reentry is probably nonsense, since the Lazarus station talks about Shepard suffering deleterious effects from "long term" exposure to vacuum and a zero gravity environment. Which means she didn't head straight into the planet at any speed, and was likely orbiting above it for a while.

You are discounting the fact that Shepard and the debris all have the motion of the Normandy, which other than pehaps creative license in a cut scene would not have been suddenly stationary. When a starship loses power, it doesn't just decelerate and stop. One of the problems is the cut scene makes essentially no sense.

Too much about the whole opening act makes no sense whatsoever.

[Foolsfolly]

Also the shrapnel's force would still propel Shepard. It's not a glancing blow in vacuum. The ion engine works by shooting out a small stream of ionized gas, they can even shoot out a single particle to maneuver satellites. If a single particle can create enough force to move an object in space than it stands to reason that shrapnel would too.



There's no friction to stop him, its energy propels him.

[Tony_Knightcrawler]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Also the shrapnel's force would still
propel Shepard. It's not a glancing blow in vacuum. The ion engine works
by shooting out a small stream of ionized gas, they can even shoot out a
single particle to maneuver satellites. If a single particle can create
enough force to move an object in space than it stands to reason that
shrapnel would too.

There's no friction to stop him, its energy propels him.

Ion engines accelerate over the course of hours, days, weeks, even months or years. Besides, we're not talking about ionized particles anyway. As far as the rest, yes of course shrapnel would propel him, but only to a minor degree. Force equations are one of the first things taught in physics... all the same, I'm not gonna do one for this. :-P And by the very nature of shrapnel traveling THROUGH him, it's clear the shrapnel only transfered a small amount of its kinetic force to him anyway.

Dusty Everman wrote...

smudboy wrote...

http://social.biowar...93197/7#2709226

However Shepard is not starting at free fall, and we have to assume there are no other objects or air resistance stopping or slowing their descent.  Shepard's moving at the "Velocity Of Detonation", or whatever explosion pushed them into space.  Explosive forces range from 1800-10300m/s, but we'll just go with 5000m/s.  That's roughly 11,000 miles/h, in space.

Shepard instantly went from 0 mph to 11000 mph from the destruction of the cockpit?  The cockpit more breaks apart than explodes, and you see Shepard drift from it at maybe 20mph tops.  I'm no physicist, but this argument seems flawed to me.

Yes, explosive *forces* are very fast, but they also lack much mass. I mean, when you get shot with a bullet, your body doesn't fly back at the same speed as the bullet. Gas hardly weighs anything, so the acceleration your body gets from an explosion is not the same as the gas experienced. Gas just can't transfer that much energy. I mean, it can't transfer that much thermal energy either (ever had steam on your body? Did your skin start melting? No?), so why would someone expect it to transfer velocity like that? Just go to a pool table and throw a marble at the cue ball and see how fast the cue ball goes.

That's not to say that explosions aren't dangerous, though.

As for the matter of the fall, having less atmosphere is actually a BAD thing. Do you have any idea how hard Shepard would have hit the ground without an atmosphere? 9.8 m/(s^2) is gravity on Earth. I used this online calculator since I didn't want to do work (http://www.ajdesigne.../cavelocity.php). If he were free-falling for just one minute on a planet with Earth's gravity but no atmosphere, he'd be traveling at 588 m/s when he hit the ground. That's about ten times the terminal velocity on Earth. Yeah, I'd be a litlte hot if it meant softening my impact by that much (or more) - that's just after one minute of acceleration. What you really want is a thick atmosphere and less gravity; only thing is that's only possible on very young planet because if they don't have much gravity, they will lose atmosphere over time.

With an atmosphere I can see his brain "surviving" the impact, though - by that I mean a pretty worthless and very dead brain, but at least not crushed and a splotch on the ground. It'd be a splotch inside his very fractured skull. The helmets in ME are presumably tough enough to survive an impact like that, and if they're well-formed to the head the impact should be spread out evenly over the entire skull. The time of the actual deceleration is the real sticking point, of course. The helmet, his skull, and his flesh would collapse (as well as the dirt he is smacking into), spreading out the impact over time. But it would still take just a fraction of a second.

PRESUMABLY, with a ****g amazing computer and scanning technology, you could map the locations of each group of organelles, proteins, etc. in his little broken vase of a head, weigh them (or at least calculate their weighs), compare with recorded data of his descent from his suit, cross-reference that with the damage to helmet (a known quantitty), and be able to figure out what direction and how fast his head was moving when it hit, how long the impact took to reach 0 m/s, and use all that data to predict the paths of movements of each protein and/or organelle and/or cell in his head.

Now, you don't have to put everything back EXACTLY where it came from, just as long as it has the same connections. I can see two ways of putting his proteins/organelles/cells back where they came from: individually moving them with some technology that we don't possess now, or maybe, possibly, using mass effect fields to force the exact oppsite acceleration conditions on his skull as what he receieved. This may, possibly (and that's a big "possibly") put everything back in the same general area where they came from, but you'd still need to do work after that using the previoulsy mentioned tool.

Of course, as the OP mentioned, you have to worry about autolysis and putrefaction. As soon as cells die, both start. Putrefaction wouldn't be as big of a problem perhaps because any bacteria/fungi of his own would possibly have a hard time getting around his body (to his head) with his heart stopped and probably his ateries and veins severed. So his brain would only have to worry about the actual bacteria already present in the brain, which I think is *relatively* minimal. That said, bacteria in a human body actually outnumbers human cells by a healthy majority., so I'd doubt any area is actually "clean." Autolysis is basically destructive enzymes (such as from lysozomes) leaking out of where they were being contained and destroying the cell. There's no way to stop this.

Well okay, you can stop both autolysis and putrefaction by fixing tissue, but that's a process that takes minutes/hours even in very small samples and fixatives are by their very nature toxic to the exact same tissue they fix. So there'd really be no reason to expect some kind of automated fixative release inside a helmet when any malfunction of such a system would kill the suit's wearer; and without a Lazarus project for everyone, I fail to see the point except for like... conducting scientific research on every dead soldier, or trying to keep them looking preserved for funerals. But those are both rather macabre ideas.

So really uh... maybe Cerberus was totally Johnny-on-the-Spot in picking Shepard up; there within minutes, medical facility minutes later, bam smacked with fixatives right after. That seems unliktely, though. Maybe the planet's atmosphere naturally contains fixatives that preserve brain cells in humans. Again, unlikely, and it'd make it harder for Cerberus to safely send a retrieval team.

Modifié par Tony_Knightcrawler, 29 août 2010 - 12:16 .

[KainrycKarr]

bad writing was bad.

[JJ Long]

They brought Spock back to life in Star Trek

[Eradyn]

It's possible to survive (with fractures, broken bones, some internal injuries) a long fall from great heights. Sky divers with failed parachutes have been known to "walk" away with "minimal" injuries after falling from thousands of feet. Why? Because it doesn't matter how high you've fallen once you hit terminal velocity.



Shepard being dead already, and wearing a hard suit, would likely make the landing damage that much less. People who are more relaxed in a freefall tend to survive and walk away with fewer severe injuries than those who are, understandably, tense.



I can see his hardsuit helping to protect against the friction of reentry and helping to absorb the shock of landing (not to mention the location of initial impact has a lot of bearing on how much damage can occur. e.a.: landing on concrete or jutting surfaces is a lot more painful and damaging then landing on soft ground (tilled fields, dusty soil), snow, or deep/churning bodies of water.



http://www.wikihow.c...ive-a-Long-Fall

[smudboy]

Eradyn wrote...

It's possible to survive (with fractures, broken bones, some internal injuries) a long fall from great heights. Sky divers with failed parachutes have been known to "walk" away with "minimal" injuries after falling from thousands of feet. Why? Because it doesn't matter how high you've fallen once you hit terminal velocity.

Ah?  Do you understand what terminal velocity is?  The difference in high-altitude jumps is several hundred miles an hour.

A 12,000 foot freefall for an Earth drop is roughly 115 mph.
The current record for highest drop of 108,800 feet is 614 mph.

And Shepard was being propelled by an explosion in space.  (Explosive forces, like the Velocity of Detonation, ranges from 1600-11000 m/s, which is about 3,500-25,500 mph.)

Alchera's gravity is 0.85g. (So we could guess the rate of freefall is 8.33 m/s^2)

Shepard being dead already, and wearing a hard suit, would likely make the landing damage that much less. People who are more relaxed in a freefall tend to survive and walk away with fewer severe injuries than those who are, understandably, tense.

Thus assumes Shepard doesn't burn up in a purely ammonia and methane atmosphere due to the air pressure on entry.

How does Shepard's living or dead status make the damge to their body that much less, in a punctured "hard suit", whose helmet has blown off?  Their brain would go kablooie.

I can see his hardsuit helping to protect against the friction of reentry and helping to absorb the shock of landing (not to mention the location of initial impact has a lot of bearing on how much damage can occur. e.a.: landing on concrete or jutting surfaces is a lot more painful and damaging then landing on soft ground (tilled fields, dusty soil), snow, or deep/churning bodies of water.

http://www.wikihow.c...ive-a-Long-Fall

Hitting water at hundreds, thousands of miles an hour would make virtually no difference as ones body -- hardsuit and all -- came to an immediate, pulverizing, flattened stop.

Here's a jet at 500 mph

"The plane atomized with the impact."

[Eradyn]

Shepard was drifting into the atmosphere, not rocketing at blinding speeds...if the intro video is to be believed. That said, terminal velocity is terminal velocity. Period. Once you hit it, you hit it...whatever that velocity is for said planet. Unless you have a rocket strapped to your back to overcome terminal velocity, but Shepard didn't. Shepard drifted into the atmosphere. I won't pretend to be an expert on the subject, but I have enough grasp of the basic concepts to be comfortable with it.

Shepard being dead already means the concern is not for survival. Now the only concern is for potential damage to the corpse. Because Shepard is no longer alive, there is no risk of Shepard tensing up on impact. Relaxed body = potential for less severe damage. Survival is no longer a concern, just overall potential damage. The brain will not necessarily go "kablooie" unless other variables are present that would cause that to occur.

Shepard would NOT hit the ground at thousands of miles an hour (the sole exception being whatever the terminal velocity of that planet is). Of that I am sure. Hitting a DEEP body of water, however, will mitigate the force of impact upon the body (although Shepard did not land in water, so it's a moot point).

A jet is irrelevant. A jet has artificial propulsion moving it along. A body in freefall has only the forces of gravity and atmospheric resistance to contend with.

Modifié par Eradyn, 29 août 2010 - 06:34 .

[ThatGamerWithSouvlaki285]

Ksandor wrote...

You can't bring Shepard back from dead -- it is impossible.

If you are brain dead your neurons and neural pathways and protein based memory molecules decompose. Since nobody knows what protein based memories and neural pathways Shepard had in life reconstructing them is impossible (you can't reconstruct memories and the personality).

Besides quantum mechanics says 100% reproduction is impossible. Especially when it comes to a complex system like a thinking brain. Unless there was some sort of hibernation mechanism in Shepard's suit reviving a brain dead person is impossible.

If I were Bioware I would create circumstances where Shepard's brain could be salvaged more or less intact. At least they did not clearly state that Shepard fell to the planet. No "body" can survive that. Simple impact would pulverize the body even if the atmosphere does not contain oxygen so the body would not burn. Maybe Shepard's body was in orbit and his body suit's emergency systems preserved him to some degree. Any specifics about this in Redemption comic?

The solution would be to imply that Shepard's body recovered from orbit and the suit protected him from extreme decomposition -- especially an emergency mechanism which protected his brain. This would not directly conflict with Jacob when he said Shepard was dead as dead can be and Miranda when he summarizes the extensive damage Shepard suffered. If your brain is preserved bringing you back from dead should be possible with future tech.

I wish they just said that Shepard was in comma for 2 years. That was the most plausible solution but Bioware wanted to scandalize audience with this flashy death idea so instead they have chosen this Hollywood no brainer. They should retcon this without conflicting Mass Effect 2.

IT'S A GAME SET IN THE FUTURE!!!! IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE ACCURATE TO MODERN STANDARDS!!! THE IDEA OF BIOTICS IS IMPOSSIBLE BUT NOBODY IS QUESTIONING THAT!!

Modifié par steph285, 29 août 2010 - 06:35 .