931 réponses à ce sujet

[MagusRudra]

People keep ignoring that suits inject medigel upon recognized, severe or worse, injuries (this was explained in the latest book, Retribution). As a corpse, the medigel would be quite useful in mitigating the putrefaction and autolysis in the body. Also, just because we find the helmet elsewhere doesn't mean he didn't land with it. It's quite possible and probable that whoever picked Shepard up immediately removed the helmet to assess the total damage dealt to the main concern, i.e. his head.

[Zulu_DFA]

Skyblade012 wrote...

You get to negate most of the force of the ship blowing up. Since the ship wasn't in an atmosphere, there wasn't enough matter to create a blast wave that would hit Shepard. Shepard would only be hit by shrapnel, not a concussion wave, and if the pieces were small enough and few enough, the energy they struck Shepard with would not provide enough force to continue Shepard's trip down.

Further, the initial detonation that forced Shepard out of the ship lost a lot of its power. We see Shepard strike at least two bulkheads before heading out into space, and possibly another piece of debris before she is clear. Each collision would absorb a great deal of Shepard's inital velocity, so that she heads towards the planet at a slower speed.

And then there is her leaky suit. Since the suit was leaking air, that air would act like a jet, propelling Shepard around, adding additional force in varying directions as Shepard contorted to try and reach it.

Of course, all of this talk of reentry is probably nonsense, since the Lazarus station talks about Shepard suffering deleterious effects from "long term" exposure to vacuum and a zero gravity environment. Which means she didn't head straight into the planet at any speed, and was likely orbiting above it for a while.

http://social.biowar...69330/3#3171547

BioWare have spoken: the Normandy was not in orbit. By the time Shepard got spaced, she was free-falling on Alchera.

How? Ask Joker, I suppose.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 29 août 2010 - 07:45 .

[smudboy]

Eradyn wrote...

Shepard was drifting into the atmosphere, not rocketing at blinding speeds...if the intro video is to be believed. That said, terminal velocity is terminal velocity. Period. Once you hit it, you hit it...whatever that velocity is for said planet. Unless you have a rocket strapped to your back to overcome terminal velocity, but Shepard didn't. Shepard drifted into the atmosphere. I won't pretend to be an expert on the subject, but I have enough grasp of the basic concepts to be comfortable with it.

1. What is your definition of terminal velocity that is so important?  You seem to keep making references to it, but I don't think it means what you think it means.  Terminal velocity is when the drag is equal to the weight of the object, whereupon acceleration = 0.  This does not take into account the speed Shepard was traveling before entering the atmosphere.  Terminal velocity must account for an objects weight, drag coefficient, and density of the atmosphere (high or low.  From what Alchera listed, it has a less dense atmosphere than earth.)  Here's some better data. 
2. Shepard did not "drift" into the atmosphere.  They were blown away by an explosion.

Shepard being dead already means the concern is not for survival. Now the only concern is for potential damage to the corpse. Because Shepard is no longer alive, there is no risk of Shepard tensing up on impact. Relaxed body = potential for less severe damage. Survival is no longer a concern, just overall potential damage. The brain will not necessarily go "kablooie" unless other variables are present that would cause that to occur.

No one is speculating within this context that Shepard did not die.  The issue is how the devil they 1) hit the planet, 2) were preserved, 3) was resurrected.

If you seriously think tensing up on impact is going to help preserve Shepard's body moreso, you are splitting hairs in a leg shaving contest for Wookies.  Let's couple the fact that Shepard had a suit rupture, ran out of air in space, their entire respiratory system was vacuumed, then by filled with gaseous ammonia and methane, while whatever organic material wasn't either melted off by the gases, and didn't get pulverized on imact, would then be crystalized by the cold temperatures of the planet -(22 C.)  Now, cryogenics does exist in the ME universe, but I'm quite sure it's not by hurtling through an atmosphere and being smashed into ice at thousands of miles an hour.

Shepard would NOT hit the ground at thousands of miles an hour (the sole exception being whatever the terminal velocity of that planet is). Of that I am sure. Hitting a DEEP body of water, however, will mitigate the force of impact upon the body (although Shepard did not land in water, so it's a moot point).

A jet is irrelevant. A jet has artificial propulsion moving it along. A body in freefall has only the forces of gravity and atmospheric resistance to contend with.

And why wouldn't Shepard?
1. Gets propelled away from the life pod by an explosion in space (at minium, one thousand of miles an hour.)
2. Falls into a planet's atmosphere (0.85 g's)
3. This "physical surface" argument is hilarious.  Nonetheless, water is ice on the planet.
4. A jet is not irrelevant.  That's an object traveling at only 500 mph, not mach 2.5 (1,903 mph). Which gets disintegrated.  Again, applying your terminal velocity, Shepard wouldn't increase in speed any further, so air pressure/gravity at that point become irrelevant (and let's recall the highest freewall jump in an high Earth atmosphere, which was 614 mph.)  Either way, from freefall believable speeds, or additional shunting forces from the explosion, you're looking at one pulverized Shepard.

[Tony_Knightcrawler]

Skyblade012 wrote...
Of course, all of this talk of reentry is probably nonsense, since the Lazarus station talks about Shepard suffering deleterious effects from "long term" exposure to vacuum and a zero gravity environment. Which means she didn't head straight into the planet at any speed, and was likely orbiting above it for a while.

The amount of damage a body takes from vacuum exposure compared to a fall from space is completely trivial. Ooo he might have "the bends.". And zero gravity environments (which Shepard realstically wasn't exposed to for very long) *atrophy* a body over weeks or months, they don't damage a body over minutes.

[Skyblade012]

Tony_Knightcrawler wrote...

Skyblade012 wrote...
Of course, all of this talk of reentry is probably nonsense, since the Lazarus station talks about Shepard suffering deleterious effects from "long term" exposure to vacuum and a zero gravity environment. Which means she didn't head straight into the planet at any speed, and was likely orbiting above it for a while.

The amount of damage a body takes from vacuum exposure compared to a fall from space is completely trivial. Ooo he might have "the bends.". And zero gravity environments (which Shepard realstically wasn't exposed to for very long) *atrophy* a body over weeks or months, they don't damage a body over minutes.

What does that have to do with anything?  My point is that the game tells us that Shepard suffered long term exposure to zero-g and vacuum.  Add that to the fact that Shepard was recovered relatively quickly (as most of the two years were spent repairing Shepard, not trying to find Shepard's body), and the primary conclusion is that Shepard likely didn't go through reentry at all.

[Tony_Knightcrawler]

The opening cutscene shows him entering the atmosphere. Even if he did somehow have an orbit vector when leaving the ship, upon entering the atmosphere he'd have lost it.

smudboy wrote...
1. What is your definition of terminal velocity that is so important? You seem to keep making references to it, but I don't think it means what you think it means. Terminal velocity is when the drag is equal to the weight of the object, whereupon acceleration = 0. This does not take into account the speed Shepard was traveling before entering the atmosphere. Terminal velocity must account for an objects weight, drag coefficient, and density of the atmosphere (high or low. From what Alchera listed, it has a less dense atmosphere than earth.) Here's some better data.
2. Shepard did not "drift" into the atmosphere. They were blown away by an explosion.

1. Gets propelled away from the life pod by an explosion in space (at minium, one thousand of miles an hour.)

1) Yes at higher atlitudes, terminal velocity is higher. But what matters is the terminal velocity when he hits the ground. He'll be slowing down to terminal velocity the whole time.
2) & 1) Uh, preservation of energy? Just because an explosion was propogating at a high speed doesn't mean Shepard will fly out at the exact same speed when hit with it. Seriously... You can't take a low mass object at high speeds, hit a high mass object with it, and expect it to travel at the same high speed. Otherwise the system would have gained net energy. Even in an idea situation where all of the gas that hits Shepard transers all of its energy (which never even comes close to happening), Shepard would be going slower proportionally to how much less massive the gas was than his body+suit.

Modifié par Tony_Knightcrawler, 29 août 2010 - 07:51 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Skyblade012 wrote...

Tony_Knightcrawler wrote...

Skyblade012 wrote...
Of course, all of this talk of reentry is probably nonsense, since the Lazarus station talks about Shepard suffering deleterious effects from "long term" exposure to vacuum and a zero gravity environment. Which means she didn't head straight into the planet at any speed, and was likely orbiting above it for a while.

The amount of damage a body takes from vacuum exposure compared to a fall from space is completely trivial. Ooo he might have "the bends.". And zero gravity environments (which Shepard realstically wasn't exposed to for very long) *atrophy* a body over weeks or months, they don't damage a body over minutes.

What does that have to do with anything?  My point is that the game tells us that Shepard suffered long term exposure to zero-g and vacuum.  Add that to the fact that Shepard was recovered relatively quickly (as most of the two years were spent repairing Shepard, not trying to find Shepard's body), and the primary conclusion is that Shepard likely didn't go through reentry at all.

The game (Miranda) tells us that Shepard suffered long term exposure to sub-zero temperatures and vacuum. Get your facts straight. Then, don't take Miranda's word for it. She is just a manager, not a scientist.

[Skyblade012]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Skyblade012 wrote...

Tony_Knightcrawler wrote...

Skyblade012 wrote...
Of course, all of this talk of reentry is probably nonsense, since the Lazarus station talks about Shepard suffering deleterious effects from "long term" exposure to vacuum and a zero gravity environment. Which means she didn't head straight into the planet at any speed, and was likely orbiting above it for a while.

The amount of damage a body takes from vacuum exposure compared to a fall from space is completely trivial. Ooo he might have "the bends.". And zero gravity environments (which Shepard realstically wasn't exposed to for very long) *atrophy* a body over weeks or months, they don't damage a body over minutes.

What does that have to do with anything?  My point is that the game tells us that Shepard suffered long term exposure to zero-g and vacuum.  Add that to the fact that Shepard was recovered relatively quickly (as most of the two years were spent repairing Shepard, not trying to find Shepard's body), and the primary conclusion is that Shepard likely didn't go through reentry at all.

The game (Miranda) tells us that Shepard suffered long term exposure to sub-zero temperatures and vacuum. Get your facts straight. Then, don't take Miranda's word for it. She is just a manager, not a scientist.

Whoops.  Yeah, was wrong about that bit.  My bad.

[MagusRudra]

Tony_Knightcrawler wrote...

Skyblade012 wrote...
Of course, all of this talk of reentry is probably nonsense, since the Lazarus station talks about Shepard suffering deleterious effects from "long term" exposure to vacuum and a zero gravity environment. Which means she didn't head straight into the planet at any speed, and was likely orbiting above it for a while.

The amount of damage a body takes from vacuum exposure compared to a fall from space is completely trivial. Ooo he might have "the bends.". And zero gravity environments (which Shepard realstically wasn't exposed to for very long) *atrophy* a body over weeks or months, they don't damage a body over minutes.

 I just saw the intro again, and at no point does it show Shepard undergoing re-entry. The explosion might have actually saved Shepard, as it might have pushed him/her into a slight orbit around the planet, giving much needed time to whoever it is did rescue Shepard in the end (i.e. allowing them to pick-up sheperd possibly moments after he/she hit the planet's surface).

smudboy wrote...

Eradyn wrote...

Shepard was
drifting into the atmosphere, not rocketing at blinding speeds...if the
intro video is to be believed. That said, terminal velocity is
terminal velocity. Period. Once you hit it, you hit it...whatever that
velocity is for said planet. Unless you have a rocket strapped to your
back to overcome terminal velocity, but Shepard didn't. Shepard
drifted into the atmosphere. I won't pretend to be an expert on the
subject, but I have enough grasp of the basic concepts to be comfortable
with it.

1. What is your definition of terminal velocity
that is so important?  You seem to keep making references to it, but I
don't think it means what you think it means.  Terminal velocity is when
the drag is equal to the weight of the object, whereupon acceleration =
0.  This does not take into account the speed Shepard was traveling
before entering the atmosphere.  Terminal velocity must account for an
objects weight, drag coefficient, and density of the atmosphere (high or
low.  From what Alchera listed, it has a less dense atmosphere than
earth.)  Here's some better data. 
2. Shepard did not "drift" into the atmosphere.  They were blown away by an explosion.

Shepard
being dead already means the concern is not for survival. Now the only
concern is for potential damage to the corpse. Because Shepard is no
longer alive, there is no risk of Shepard tensing up on impact. Relaxed
body = potential for less severe damage. Survival is no longer a
concern, just overall potential damage. The brain will not necessarily
go "kablooie" unless other variables are present that would cause that
to occur.

No one is speculating within this context that
Shepard did not die.  The issue is how the devil they 1) hit the planet,
2) were preserved, 3) was resurrected.

If you seriously think
tensing up on impact is going to help preserve Shepard's body moreso,
you are splitting hairs in a leg shaving contest for Wookies.  Let's
couple the fact that Shepard had a suit rupture, ran out of air in
space, their entire respiratory system was vacuumed, then by filled with
gaseous ammonia and methane, while whatever organic material wasn't
either melted off by the gases, and didn't get pulverized on imact,
would then be crystalized by the cold temperatures of the planet -(22
C.)  Now, cryogenics does exist in the ME universe, but I'm quite sure
it's not by hurtling through an atmosphere and being smashed into ice at
thousands of miles an hour.

Shepard would NOT hit the
ground at thousands of miles an hour (the sole exception being whatever
the terminal velocity of that planet is). Of that I am sure. Hitting a
DEEP body of water, however, will mitigate the force of impact upon the
body (although Shepard did not land in water, so it's a moot point).

A
jet is irrelevant. A jet has artificial propulsion moving it along. A
body in freefall has only the forces of gravity and atmospheric
resistance to contend with.

And why wouldn't Shepard?
1. Gets propelled away from the life pod by an explosion in space (at minium, one thousand of miles an hour.)
2. Falls into a planet's atmosphere (0.85 g's)
3. This "physical surface" argument is hilarious.  Nonetheless, water is ice on the planet.
4.
A jet is not irrelevant.  That's an object traveling at only 500 mph,
not mach 2.5 (1,903 mph). Which gets disintegrated.  Again, applying
your terminal velocity, Shepard wouldn't increase in speed any further,
so air pressure/gravity at that point become irrelevant (and let's
recall the highest freewall jump in an high Earth atmosphere, which was
614 mph.)  Either way, from freefall believable speeds, or additional
shunting forces from the explosion, you're looking at one pulverized
Shepard.

In Retribution, the medigel was introduced into Anderson's suit after he suffered grievous injuries. This presents two options. Either a) The suit injects medigel after  Shepard stops breathing (i.e. before re-entry), or the suit injects medigel during re-entry to attempt to heal the severe burns.

If option a, then we know that the medigel helped to reduce the heat damage Shepard suffered in re-entry. But the more viable option would be option b, as that would mean that upon the suit sensing the grievous burns across all of Shepard's body, it injects the medigel into the entire suit, preventing the now extremely burnt corpse from completely disintegrating in the atmosphere and possibly providing some kind of cushion upon impact on the planet's surface.

One thing to note was that while Shepard was fighting for air AFTER the explosion, he/she was CONCIOUS. Shepard might have tried something we're not currently aware about, that might have helped save him/her in the longrun.

Modifié par MagusRudra, 29 août 2010 - 08:01 .

[MagusRudra]

Personally, knowing that Retribution is the first post ME2 story there is, the "suits inject medigel upon grievous injuries detected" stuff seems like a semi-retcon. It's the ME teams way of saying "we know we didn't explain this, here's the reason the Lazarus project was even remotely possible".

[didymos1120]

MagusRudra wrote...

Personally, knowing that Retribution is the first post ME2 story there is, the "suits inject medigel upon grievous injuries detected" stuff seems like a semi-retcon. It's the ME teams way of saying "we know we didn't explain this, here's the reason the Lazarus project was even remotely possible".

Read the medi-gel capacity upgrade text: your armor in ME2 does that.  Where do you find those upgrades?  On other people wearing armor.  Then there's the bone/muscle weave ones, which explicitly mention having special conduits for medi-gel injections.  Also: that's exactly what a First Aid Interface/Medical Exoskeleton did in ME1.  By the time of ME2, this has simply become a standard armor feature, instead of an add-on. Not a retcon. Just not mentioned much.

Modifié par didymos1120, 29 août 2010 - 11:20 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

Why do you people keep resurrecting this awful topic?

[MagusRudra]

didymos1120 wrote...

MagusRudra wrote...

Personally, knowing that Retribution is the first post ME2 story there is, the "suits inject medigel upon grievous injuries detected" stuff seems like a semi-retcon. It's the ME teams way of saying "we know we didn't explain this, here's the reason the Lazarus project was even remotely possible".

Read the medi-gel capacity upgrade text: your armor in ME2 does that.  Where do you find those upgrades?  On other people wearing armor.  Then there's the bone/muscle weave ones, which explicitly mention having special conduits for medi-gel injections.  Also: that's exactly what a First Aid Interface/Medical Exoskeleton did in ME1.  By the time of ME2, this has simply become a standard armor feature, instead of an add-on. Not a retcon. Just not mentioned much.

Then why all the fuss about this? Doesn't this solve our  'no ressurection possible' issue? Or did simply no one think about this?

[smudboy]

ReconTeam wrote...

Why do you people keep resurrecting this awful topic?

I KNOW YOU FEEL THIS.

Simply put: to remind people that they screwed up.

[Chuvvy]

Ksandor wrote...

Mass effect fields are more plausible than bringing Shepard back from dead.

No. Mass effect fields and element zero **** all over the laws of physics. I don't feel like going into it. But everything that happens with element zero and Mass effect fields is impossible. Shields might not be, I haven't really looked into that. By "look into" I don't know enough of the "science" behind them.

Modifié par Slidell505, 30 août 2010 - 02:16 .

[upsettingshorts]

Disbelief. Suspend it.

Any  sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 30 août 2010 - 02:26 .

[Moiaussi]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

http://social.biowar...69330/3#3171547

BioWare have spoken: the Normandy was not in orbit. By the time Shepard got spaced, she was free-falling on Alchera.

How? Ask Joker, I suppose.

So the explaination as to why Shepard was recoverable is the completely inexplicable 'in the middle of combat, Joker pulled the emergency brake, instantly stopping the ship so they would be sitting ducks."

The Dev posting that admitted he didn't know enough physics to calculate Shep's rate of descent.

And that works for you?

If Bioware saying 'they just recovered him, ok?" isn't good enough, why would 'the ship just stopped, ok? So it all works, right?' be an acceptable answer? lol....

[Moiaussi]

didymos1120 wrote...

MagusRudra wrote...

Personally, knowing that Retribution is the first post ME2 story there is, the "suits inject medigel upon grievous injuries detected" stuff seems like a semi-retcon. It's the ME teams way of saying "we know we didn't explain this, here's the reason the Lazarus project was even remotely possible".

Read the medi-gel capacity upgrade text: your armor in ME2 does that.  Where do you find those upgrades?  On other people wearing armor.  Then there's the bone/muscle weave ones, which explicitly mention having special conduits for medi-gel injections.  Also: that's exactly what a First Aid Interface/Medical Exoskeleton did in ME1.  By the time of ME2, this has simply become a standard armor feature, instead of an add-on. Not a retcon. Just not mentioned much.

1)  So despite that, why is it that if you go over the side of the bridge on Noveria you are dead and irrecoverable, regardless of how good your armor is or what mods you have in it?

2) If the armor really *is* that good, why is Shep dead at all? Why didn't the suit keep healing him til he was all better and could find one of the escape pods? And why is it that if anyone other than Shep goes down in regular combat (other than death by cut scene), they get better when Shep waves at them, but if Shep goes down, they immediately die with him like a Pharoah's favrourite pets?

[smudboy]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Disbelief. Suspend it.

Any  sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

I'd love to.

They didn't bother to give me any technology.

[MagusRudra]

Moiaussi wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

MagusRudra wrote...

Personally, knowing that Retribution is the first post ME2 story there is, the "suits inject medigel upon grievous injuries detected" stuff seems like a semi-retcon. It's the ME teams way of saying "we know we didn't explain this, here's the reason the Lazarus project was even remotely possible".

Read the medi-gel capacity upgrade text: your armor in ME2 does that.  Where do you find those upgrades?  On other people wearing armor.  Then there's the bone/muscle weave ones, which explicitly mention having special conduits for medi-gel injections.  Also: that's exactly what a First Aid Interface/Medical Exoskeleton did in ME1.  By the time of ME2, this has simply become a standard armor feature, instead of an add-on. Not a retcon. Just not mentioned much.

1)  So despite that, why is it that if you go over the side of the bridge on Noveria you are dead and irrecoverable, regardless of how good your armor is or what mods you have in it?

2) If the armor really *is* that good, why is Shep dead at all? Why didn't the suit keep healing him til he was all better and could find one of the escape pods? And why is it that if anyone other than Shep goes down in regular combat (other than death by cut scene), they get better when Shep waves at them, but if Shep goes down, they immediately die with him like a Pharoah's favrourite pets?

1) Uh, they have to make the game work? This IS a game right? Usually that's how games work. What you don't control (cutscenes), demonstrate how things really work, and what you play is developed for balance and um, fun.

2)  I'm preeetty darn sure their isn't an infinite supply of the stuff. We're talking about a limited supply in a suit.... And again, the whole combat and gameplay needs balance vs. actual cutscenes thing applies to the second part of your paragraph.

[Corephyfish]

Deya Lawwd,



This thread hurts my brain >.<

[upsettingshorts]

smudboy wrote...

I'd love to.

They didn't bother to give me any technology.

You want them to <tech> the <tech>?

This isn't Star Trek: The Next Generation.

They explained that the Lazarus Project cost billions and billions of credits, took two years, and used the most advanced technology and best scientists. It's not like Shepard just woke up and they said, "Hey, waddya know he's up!"

Spare me the details, they'll be just as made up as all the other science fiction plot devices in the universe that we've all accepted (mostly) without comment.  I'd just as soon get on with the story.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 30 août 2010 - 03:38 .

[didymos1120]

I know MagusRudra already touched on some of this but that was posted while I was typing this and I'm not just gonna delete it.  So there.

Moiaussi wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

MagusRudra wrote...

Personally, knowing that Retribution is the first post ME2 story there is, the "suits inject medigel upon grievous injuries detected" stuff seems like a semi-retcon. It's the ME teams way of saying "we know we didn't explain this, here's the reason the Lazarus project was even remotely possible".

Read the medi-gel capacity upgrade text: your armor in ME2 does that.  Where do you find those upgrades?  On other people wearing armor.  Then there's the bone/muscle weave ones, which explicitly mention having special conduits for medi-gel injections.  Also: that's exactly what a First Aid Interface/Medical Exoskeleton did in ME1.  By the time of ME2, this has simply become a standard armor feature, instead of an add-on. Not a retcon. Just not mentioned much.

1)  So despite that, why is it that if you go over the side of the bridge on Noveria you are dead and irrecoverable, regardless of how good your armor is or what mods you have in it?

What bridge is that?  You mean driving of the road in the Mako or something?  Why would that even count since it's a game over condition and thus not an event that "truly" happens.  As well ask why you ever die in the game when shot to death or after having a severe lapse in judgement and making it with an Asari brain-vampire or whatever. You'll get the same answer: because it's a game and being invulnerable and immortal is generally pretty boring.

2) If the armor really *is* that good, why is Shep dead at all? Why didn't the suit keep healing him til he was all better and could find one of the escape pods? And why is it that if anyone other than Shep goes down in regular combat (other than death by cut scene), they get better when Shep waves at them, but if Shep goes down, they immediately die with him like a Pharoah's favrourite pets?

Where are you getting the idea that this preserves someone for long periods of time under a wide variety of potentially lethal circumstances?  I didn't say that, the actual game text doesn't say that, and the novel doesn't say that either.  It's an emergency measure that might preserve one's life, but might not too, depending on the circumstances. 

Seems like you're confusing the way medi-gel and armor work out in game mechanic terms with how they "really" function.  They're not the same, just like how biotics aren't "really" endlessly spammable.   But here's a few reasons, off the top of my head: your suit's medi-gel capacity isn't infinite.  It can't magically conjure up an oxygen supply.  Not all grievous injuries are equal.  Decapitation is probably not very treatable with medi-gel, for instance.   Probably doesn't cure cancer either.

And why is it that if anyone other than Shep goes down in regular
combat (other than death by cut scene), they get better when Shep waves
at them, but if Shep goes down, they immediately die with him like a
Pharoah's favrourite pets?

Game mechanics again.   It would be rather un-fun if you hit a downed (or about to be) squaddie with medi-gel in combat, and then had to use your omni-tool to call the paramedics so they could be further stabilized and taken for treatment.  Or you had to use your "Summon Chawkwas" skill or whatever.  The fact is, Shep shouldn't even have the Unity skill.  They did that purely for gameplay reasons.  The lore all states that it's actually on-board VI that manages your emergency shield boosts and medi-gel deployments, and does so automatically.

Lastly, don't think I'm arguing for one side or the other on the resurrection controversy with any of this.  It's simply the case that this isn't a retcon, and I wanted to point that out. 

[smudboy]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

smudboy wrote...

I'd love to.

They didn't bother to give me any technology.

You want them to the ?

This isn't Star Trek: The Next Generation.

They explained that the Lazarus Project cost billions and billions of credits, took two years, and used the most advanced technology and best scientists. It's not like Shepard just woke up and they said, "Hey, waddya know he's up!"

Spare me the details, they'll be just as made up as all the other science fiction plot devices in the universe that we've all accepted (mostly) without comment.  I'd just as soon get on with the story.

What technology was that?

What amazing literary and technical device did they use to describe, let alone, define the resurrection?

No, such a feat of ingenuty requires simple details.  Basic exposition.  Some thing or someone I can point to so I can wrap my head around to go "Oh, that's what caused Shepard to be back."  Let alone how their body was preserved, and how it hit the planet.

[upsettingshorts]

smudboy wrote...
What technology was that?

What amazing literary and technical device did they use to describe, let alone, define the resurrection?

No, such a feat of ingenuty requires simple details.  Basic exposition.  Some thing or someone I can point to so I can wrap my head around to go "Oh, that's what caused Shepard to be back."  Let alone how their body was preserved, and how it hit the planet.

Allow me to translate this for you from "unreasonable objection that ignores the concept of a burden of proof" into "reasonable problem with the story."

Smudboy, translated into reasonable:
"I was uncomfortable with the fact something as pivotal and unbelievable as human resurrection was explained away by a simple descriptions of the circumstances that had to come together for it to occur.  Without even lip-service paid to the details of the fictitious technology used to accomplish the feat, I am unable and unwilling to suspend disbelief regarding the Lazarus Project."

See now that would be a proper objection, and I could respond: "To each his own.  I was perfectly fine with the way they went about it.  I believe that getting into such technical detail over fictional technology would have either burdened the audience with unneccessary technobabble that would either have an impact far beyond its importance to the story or be quickly ignored after advancing the story.  Either way, I can suspend disbelief and buy the Lazarus Project plot device."

But when you ask me to come up with what plot device and technobabble I or Bioware should use to explain human resurrection, you're constructing an unreasonable burden of proof over a subjective concept - suspending disbelief.

PS: I would describe the information on the Lazarus project provided in ME2 as "basic" exposition.  We know the who, what, when, where, and why.  We just don't know the how.  The how would require an explanation of such length to be disproportionate to its relevance to the REST of the story - ie, beyond the Lazarus project.  At most I'd expect perhaps some Codex entry on it, but nothing more.  In any case, I didn't need it.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 30 août 2010 - 04:39 .