931 réponses à ce sujet

[Zulu_DFA]

Moiaussi wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

http://social.biowar...69330/3#3171547

BioWare have spoken: the Normandy was not in orbit. By the time Shepard got spaced, she was free-falling on Alchera.

How? Ask Joker, I suppose.

So the explaination as to why Shepard was recoverable is the completely inexplicable 'in the middle of combat, Joker pulled the emergency brake, instantly stopping the ship so they would be sitting ducks."

The Dev posting that admitted he didn't know enough physics to calculate Shep's rate of descent.

And that works for you?

If Bioware saying 'they just recovered him, ok?" isn't good enough, why would 'the ship just stopped, ok? So it all works, right?' be an acceptable answer? lol....

Joker was trying to save the Normandy to the last moment. I don't know what he was smoking, but maybe he thought that the Normandy had more chances, if he killed the speed and shut off the propulsion systems, thus sending her into free fall. Should the Collectors bought that their job had been done and disengage without delivering their final blow, Joker thought he could attempt landing or even retutning into orbit and then to base. Doesn't matter actually, since BioWare has spoken.

However, it still doesn't work for me regarding the "resurrection". If Shepard had impacted the planet at terminal velocity, he would have been unrecoverable. Hence -

HOW SHEPARD SURVIVED THE CRASH

It is not canceled by the word of the developer, as there are not direct contradictions, and it works well for me, as well as for some other people, who have expressed their support for the theory.

[Moiaussi]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Joker was trying to save the Normandy to the last moment. I don't know what he was smoking, but maybe he thought that the Normandy had more chances, if he killed the speed and shut off the propulsion systems, thus sending her into free fall. Should the Collectors bought that their job had been done and disengage without delivering their final blow, Joker thought he could attempt landing or even retutning into orbit and then to base. Doesn't matter actually, since BioWare has spoken.

How, precisely, do you just 'send a ship into freefall?' This isn't the ocean. If you cut the engines, you don't simply stop. To stop you have to reverse thrust until you stop.

If that was an option, he could have simply dove the Normandy into the atmosphere. We know it can handle atmospheric flight when it has to. Also, if it cut speed completely (which is never actually the case in the cut scenes other than the inexplicable spacewalk scene), if should have been a much easier target.

However, it still doesn't work for me regarding the "resurrection". If Shepard had impacted the planet at terminal velocity, he would have been unrecoverable. Hence -

HOW SHEPARD SURVIVED THE CRASH

It is not canceled by the word of the developer, as there are not direct contradictions, and it works well for me, as well as for some other people, who have expressed their support for the theory.

The Mako theory makes even less sense, since the Mako could have made a safe controlled descent.

There is another problem with the whole scene though... these are the Collectors, right? So why didn't they collect the escape pods? Or even just shoot them?

[Zulu_DFA]

Moiaussi wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Joker was trying to save the Normandy to the last moment. I don't know what he was smoking, but maybe he thought that the Normandy had more chances, if he killed the speed and shut off the propulsion systems, thus sending her into free fall. Should the Collectors bought that their job had been done and disengage without delivering their final blow, Joker thought he could attempt landing or even retutning into orbit and then to base. Doesn't matter actually, since BioWare has spoken.

How, precisely, do you just 'send a ship into freefall?' This isn't the ocean. If you cut the engines, you don't simply stop. To stop you have to reverse thrust until you stop.

I know. So what? Joker reversed the thrust.

If that was an option, he could have simply dove the Normandy into the atmosphere.

I am sorry?

We know it can handle atmospheric flight when it has to. Also, if it cut speed completely (which is never actually the case in the cut scenes other than the inexplicable spacewalk scene)

Which is the case, as the spacewalk scene suggests.

, if should have been a much easier target.

Or, a more difficult target, as the heat and EM emissions dropped sharply, and even visually it was harder to track the Normandy as she stopped moving against the background.

However, it still doesn't work for me regarding the "resurrection". If Shepard had impacted the planet at terminal velocity, he would have been unrecoverable. Hence -

HOW SHEPARD SURVIVED THE CRASH

It is not canceled by the word of the developer, as there are not direct contradictions, and it works well for me, as well as for some other people, who have expressed their support for the theory.

The Mako theory makes even less sense, since the Mako could have made a safe controlled descent.

Maybe it did, and Shepard was able to live in the Mako for days, maybe weeks (IIRC, the Redemption takes place a whole month after the Normandy's destruction). As the power supply ran out, Shepard simply froze to death. Thanks to the multiple fractures he'd suffered during the blast, the necrosis spread deeper in his body than just skin coverings. But his heart and lungs failed only at the last moment, when the Blue Suns were already near, so that thanks to natural hypothermia they managed to conserve the Commander's brain intact in the stasis pod.

There is another problem with the whole scene though... these are the Collectors, right? So why didn't they collect the escape pods? Or even just shoot them?

The Collectors had an unlucky streak that day. They managed to collect some escape pods, but those were all empty. And then they had to withdraw.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 30 août 2010 - 07:30 .

[Moiaussi]

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...

[quote]Moiaussi wrote...

[quote]I know. So what? Joker reversed the thrust.[/quote]

What thrust? The drive core was shot. The Normandy is a fast ship, with no engine upgrades it later successfully disengages from the collector ship in approx 2 seconds (when Joker and EDI save the ship). If the drive was still functional, why not plot a course away and go FTL, or down into the atmosphere?


[quote]I am sorry?[/quote]

If the drives were functional enough to stop the Normandy, why not dive for the planet to use it as cover? Or at least turn?

[quote]Which is the case, as the spacewalk scene suggests.[/quote]

So if shepard stands on the deck in open space for an hour or two (which Shep can do... try it), the Collectors simply took a dinner break too? And what is your explaination for Shep suddenly moving in slow motion or suddenly not being able to run?

Or for the debris from the ship drifting off towards the planet til there is no more debris drifting?

And then when they next show the scene from space, the Normandy no longer being motionless but having some obvious motion with respect to the planet?

[quote]
Or, a more difficult target, as the heat and EM emissions dropped sharply, and even visually it was harder to track the Normandy as she stopped moving against the background.[/quote]

The ship still had an energy sig if only heat from where the beam it it. Moreover, the collector ship was more than close enough to use active scanners, and/or to simply look for the hole where the stars that should be there are blocked by the hull. When you know *where* to look, slow relatively close objects become incredibly easy to track.


[quote]
Maybe it did, and Shepard was able to live in the Mako for days, maybe weeks (IIRC, the Redemption takes place a whole month after the Normandy's destruction). As the power supply ran out, Shepard simply froze to death. Thanks to the multiple fractures he suffered during the blast, the necrosis spread deeper in his body than just skin coverings. But his heart and lungs failed only at the last moment, when the Blue Suns were already near, so that thanks to natural hypothermia they managed to conserve the Commander's brain intact in the stasis pod.[/quote]

And strangely he was not rescued, depsite ALL the other crew members (cept Pressley) getting picked up? Care to try that one again?

[quote]
The Collectors had an unlucky streak that day. They managed to collect some escape pods, but those were all empty. And then they had to withdraw.[/quote]

If you believe that, I am sure you would be interested in this deed I happen to have for a bridge in Brooklyn.

[Monochrome Wench]

The collectors motivations for attacking the Normandy are not made clear. Was it to kill Shepard? If so they didn't do a very good job at making sure of it. Maybe they were just instructed to destroy the Normandy and only later did Harbinger instruct them to recover Shepards body.



Personally I didn't find the resurrection impossibly unbelivable as you are never given enough information about how badly damaged the body actually was. I'd just have to assume that the body had a 'soft' landing on the planet. The coldness of the planet itself would have reasonably well preserved the body as much as it could ignoring any damage the freezing itself would have done.



WRT what people have been saying above, the relative velocities between Shepard and the planet aren't, IMO, much of an issue. We don't know what the relative velocites between the ship and planet were before the ship was attacked so its impossible to make any conclusions based on it. As the ship pieces seem to have landed without sustaining significantly more damage after it broke apart, the ship must not have been moving particularly quickly against the atmosphere suggesting that reentry would not have caused much if any heating of Sheps body while falling.



Really, all I can say is, everything happened just luckily well enough that Shepard could be brought back. In the end its 'just' a story, they can do whatever they want. Doesn't mean I think the game should have started this way though.

[Zulu_DFA]

@ Moiaussi

Look, for whatever reason, the Normandy had zero orbital velocity. Check.

All crew members that got to the escape pods were saved by unknown rescuers. Maybe it were the very same Blue Suns who came after Shepard later. But at first they were hired to rescue the survivors only. Who could have thought Shepard also survived in the Mako? Only when they were contracted by the Shadow Broker to conduct search for Shepard or his remains, did they go planetside. It's one thing to fish out the escape pods from space, and another to scan a planet for anomalies.

Anyway, have you got a better theory, which explains all this without handwaving or space wizardry? Don't poke my theory for weak spots, come up with your own.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 30 août 2010 - 08:03 .

[Tony_Knightcrawler]

Dr. Peter Venkman wrote...

As someone who HAS read the books, kinetic barriers DON'T protect someone from burnup on re-entry and they are NOT going to stop someone from hitting the ground pretty darn fast; they dissipate an object's energy over a large area; this is the basic premise of all body armor and when it comes to ME, the barrier only triggers when an object (i.e., a bullet) hits the suit at a high-rate of speed. Pressurized suits rely on an energy source that depletes. Point out a suit that is a substitute for a vessel anywhere in the series, given you've "read and know everything".

I like most of that, but we are talking about relative speeds here. Whether a bullet is traveling really fast at Shepard, or Shepard is traveling really fast at a bullet doesn't matter; the sensors will detect it the same way and respond the same way. Certainly, kinetic barriers won't reduce the amount of force put on Shepard, but they could extend the time of impact SLIGHTLY and SLIGHTLY redistribute the force of the impact (planet hitting Shepard) evenly.

===

As for Shepard's helmet, I just figure it popped off him when he hit the ground. After all, if he hit the planet in a prone position, the helmet would expend below his armor a little bit (assuming a maleshep; femshap would be a little more complicated).

===

MagusRudra wrote...

People keep ignoring that suits inject
medigel upon recognized, severe or worse, injuries (this was explained
in the latest book, Retribution). As a corpse, the medigel would be
quite useful in mitigating the putrefaction and autolysis in the body.
Also, just because we find the helmet elsewhere doesn't mean he didn't
land with it. It's quite possible and probable that whoever picked
Shepard up immediately removed the helmet to assess the total damage
dealt to the main concern, i.e. his head.

That is an interesting point. There are a few issues, though. First, this event happened only weeks after ME1, before most armor did this (although I personally always used Medical Exoskeletons and I think it'd be okay to assume he had one equipped). Second, medi-gel is meant to return heal a body; to return the body to homeostasis. This is the opposite of a fixative. A fixative basically kills everything in a specific way so it retains many (but not all) of its original features and completely ceases operation. Medi-gel that caused your body to cease its metabolism wouldn't function as a healing agent; it'd accelerate your death.

On the other hand, there are more common circumstances in which (in the future), a fixative might be useful to soldiers. For instance, gangreen could be stopped by fixation and if the process could be reversed (which can't really be done well now), there'd be only minor healing to be done later. Let's say the major blood vessels supplying your arm are totally lacerated such that even if Medi-Gel was applied, it'd only keep the arm alive a few more minutes; if the Medi-Gel fixed the arm instead, it could be recovered later without a need to amputate (like I said, assuming future tech could reverse fixation). The huge problem with this is that it'd only be practical on a localized, target area; if the fixative entered the bloodstream (or the lymph system, I guess) it could spread to other parts of the body and kill or severely handicap the patient. So the medi-gel would have to decide on a localized area and deliver only exactly enough fixative to the target cells or tissue such that it would saturate the target and only the target. Fortunately, once a fixative binds to a target molecule, it doesn't really move. Certain fixatives can still interact with other molecules even when bound, though.

So in my eyes, a more subtle retcon would be to give Medi-Gel the ability to fix target tissue locally if it deems (Medi-Gel is idescribed as biological, so it'd have some genetic programming) the target cannot be saved. The Medi-Gel would probably have to rearrange whatever other chemicals it uses for the actual healing to make a fixative, because it'd be inefficient and very dangerous to have Medi-Gel always carry some. I'm still not 100% on the idea, because who'd want Medi-Gel that could kill you if it was defective?

===

Why are people trying to come up with a reason of how he could have survived the crash when he clearly died anyway?

Modifié par Tony_Knightcrawler, 30 août 2010 - 09:08 .

[Raxxman]

That is an interesting point. There are a few issues, though. First, this event happened only weeks after ME1, before most armor did this (although I personally always used Medical Exoskeletons and I think it'd be okay to assume he had one equipped). Second, medi-gel is meant to return heal a body; to return the body to homeostasis. This is the opposite of a fixative. A fixative basically kills everything in a specific way so it retains many (but not all) of its original features and completely ceases operation. Medi-gel that caused your body to cease its metabolism wouldn't function as a healing agent; it'd accelerate your death.

Shepard landed on a planet with sub zero conditions, freezing would preserve the body. Who knows what medi gel does, maybe it can act as a cryo-preservant, preventing excess cellular damage to freezing.



We've been able to freeze down human cells to liquid N2 temperatures and resurrect them for a good number of years now using DMSO to rupture cell membranes and Serum to create an osmotic in balance drawing liquid out of the cells so they don't burst due to ice crystals.



This doesn't have to be medi gels primary function, rather a bi-product of the transfer medium, which allows rapid penetration throughout the body.

Why are people trying to come up with a reason of how he could have survived the crash when he clearly died anyway?

People are trying to explain how his brain could of survived in such a state as to retain memories.

[upsettingshorts]

What happened was he fell in battle against the Balrog. Then he was sent back as Shepard the Upgraded because his task wasn't done.

[smudboy]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

smudboy wrote...
What technology was that?

What amazing literary and technical device did they use to describe, let alone, define the resurrection?

No, such a feat of ingenuty requires simple details.  Basic exposition.  Some thing or someone I can point to so I can wrap my head around to go "Oh, that's what caused Shepard to be back."  Let alone how their body was preserved, and how it hit the planet.

Allow me to translate this for you from "unreasonable objection that ignores the concept of a burden of proof" into "reasonable problem with the story."

Smudboy, translated into reasonable:
"I was uncomfortable with the fact something as pivotal and unbelievable as human resurrection was explained away by a simple descriptions of the circumstances that had to come together for it to occur.  Without even lip-service paid to the details of the fictitious technology used to accomplish the feat, I am unable and unwilling to suspend disbelief regarding the Lazarus Project."

See now that would be a proper objection, and I could respond: "To each his own.  I was perfectly fine with the way they went about it.  I believe that getting into such technical detail over fictional technology would have either burdened the audience with unneccessary technobabble that would either have an impact far beyond its importance to the story or be quickly ignored after advancing the story.  Either way, I can suspend disbelief and buy the Lazarus Project plot device."

But when you ask me to come up with what plot device and technobabble I or Bioware should use to explain human resurrection, you're constructing an unreasonable burden of proof over a subjective concept - suspending disbelief.

PS: I would describe the information on the Lazarus project provided in ME2 as "basic" exposition.  We know the who, what, when, where, and why.  We just don't know the how.  The how would require an explanation of such length to be disproportionate to its relevance to the REST of the story - ie, beyond the Lazarus project.  At most I'd expect perhaps some Codex entry on it, but nothing more.  In any case, I didn't need it.

Let's try this again.  You wrote:
"They explained that the Lazarus Project cost billions and billions of credits, took two years, and used the most advanced technology and best scientists. It's not like Shepard just woke up and they said, "Hey, waddya know he's up!"

What advanced technology?  Where is this technology?  What was it?  Which scientists?  What, were they buying coffee and dart boards with all that cash?  How did they manage to bring back Shepard's brain, fully intact, with full memories, a completely rebuilt ANS/PNS, a spine, all interconnecting nerves, with all that damage rebuilt?  Why does his blood glow, why do his eyes glow, what implants and upgrades were accomplished?  What body parts had to be replaced?  What components had to be upgraded?  How much machine is Shepard, etc.

I don't necessarily need all these details (note: it would help.)  We're talking about Jesus here.  They could easily have pointed to a magical device, or a magical scientist, or every conceivable literary device to make this believable.  This is basic comic book stuff: the Revitalization Machine, the Miracle Working Doctor(s), or the Lazarus Pit (!)  Because this is exactly where ME2 has dared to tread, to the realm of the ridiculously impossible.  So at this point, the story has to go into hyper-exposition mode on how this miracle of science is possible.  A bunch of glowing clamps and clear-blue fluid is a good start, but it doesn't cut it.

All they had to do, bare minimum, was 1) tell/show us what happened to their body on impact, 2) tell/show us how that body was preserved (like what wasn't), 3) tell/show us how Shepard was rebuilt.  This is vital to the fact that we can believe the basics of it, if the brain was preserved: but we can't, since Shepard's helmet got removed somehow.

If they're going to use a medical miracle, that is, science, you have to START with the basics of science, like the conditions that seem like a snowball's chance in hell, then explain as you go up that massive mountain of improbability, and start having little miracles along the way "OMG, we have a working liver!"  Compare this to BioShock's Dr. Tenenbaum's explanation of the Little Sisters invincibility, or ADAM, etc.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Moiaussi wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

http://social.biowar...69330/3#3171547

BioWare have spoken: the Normandy was not in orbit. By the time Shepard got spaced, she was free-falling on Alchera.

How? Ask Joker, I suppose.

So the explaination as to why Shepard was recoverable is the completely inexplicable 'in the middle of combat, Joker pulled the emergency brake, instantly stopping the ship so they would be sitting ducks."

The Dev posting that admitted he didn't know enough physics to calculate Shep's rate of descent.

And that works for you?

If Bioware saying 'they just recovered him, ok?" isn't good enough, why would 'the ship just stopped, ok? So it all works, right?' be an acceptable answer? lol....

Joker was trying to save the Normandy to the last moment. I don't know what he was smoking, but maybe he thought that the Normandy had more chances, if he killed the speed and shut off the propulsion systems, thus sending her into free fall. Should the Collectors bought that their job had been done and disengage without delivering their final blow, Joker thought he could attempt landing or even retutning into orbit and then to base. Doesn't matter actually, since BioWare has spoken.

However, it still doesn't work for me regarding the "resurrection". If Shepard had impacted the planet at terminal velocity, he would have been unrecoverable. Hence -

HOW SHEPARD SURVIVED THE CRASH

It is not canceled by the word of the developer, as there are not direct contradictions, and it works well for me, as well as for some other people, who have expressed their support for the theory.

It does, however, rely on facts not in evidence.

[Moiaussi]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

@ Moiaussi

Look, for whatever reason, the Normandy had zero orbital velocity. Check.

Again, if you are going to accept a Jedi mind trick of 'Shepard was recoverable, move along' or 'the Normandy was stationary, move along' why bother with this whole discussion

All crew members that got to the escape pods were saved by unknown rescuers. Maybe it were the very same Blue Suns who came after Shepard later. But at first they were hired to rescue the survivors only. Who could have thought Shepard also survived in the Mako? Only when they were contracted by the Shadow Broker to conduct search for Shepard or his remains, did they go planetside. It's one thing to fish out the escape pods from space, and another to scan a planet for anomalies.

Right, because only plucky PC's scan planets, and only tiny escape pods have emergency beacons.

Anyway, have you got a better theory, which explains all this without handwaving or space wizardry? Don't poke my theory for weak spots, come up with your own.

If I am in the camp that it there is no explaination, doesn't that automaticly tell you that I have no explaination?

The best explaination I can come up with is that the entire cut scene was utter garbage and a false memory of Joker's or Sheps.

[Moiaussi]

smudboy wrote...

If they're going to use a medical miracle, that is, science, you have to START with the basics of science, like the conditions that seem like a snowball's chance in hell, then explain as you go up that massive mountain of improbability, and start having little miracles along the way "OMG, we have a working liver!"  Compare this to BioShock's Dr. Tenenbaum's explanation of the Little Sisters invincibility, or ADAM, etc.

Most of it can be explained by medigel. If you accept medigel you can accept the regrowth of everything but the brain. The scalpels, etc, might have been needed to deal with the scale of the repair... at that scale the medigel might be trying to grow overlapping body parts and need to be 'trimmed back.'

The brain is an issue in that there is no way to map the brain perfectly. The cell structure maybe, but the precise chemical combinations that result in memory is another matter. If there were Asari present, that might explain it, but Shep would almost certainly end up with some surplus memories that way.

Furthermore, any ability to do so would mean Cerberus now has a perfect mind reading technology, which has a whole set of additional implications beyond ressurrection.

[Zulu_DFA]

Moiaussi wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

@ Moiaussi

Look, for whatever reason, the Normandy had zero orbital velocity. Check.

Again, if you are going to accept a Jedi mind trick of 'Shepard was recoverable, move along' or 'the Normandy was stationary, move along' why bother with this whole discussion

Could Joker reverse the thrust and make the Normandy stationary? Yes, he could.

If I am in the camp that it there is no explaination, doesn't that automaticly tell you that I have no explaination?

And yet, you have an explanation.

The best explaination I can come up with is that the entire cut scene was utter garbage and a false memory of Joker's or Sheps.

It's a good explanation, and I agree with you. More over, I think that most of ME2 cutscenes are garbage. But that only supports the notion that the Normandy was stationary, and in free fall, and Shep could get back there and start the Mako before the wreck hit the planet. Because it had to be so.

[JGDD]

Zulu_DFA wrote... But that only supports the notion that the Normandy was stationary, and in free fall

Does not compute...how can a stationary object be moving? 

[Moiaussi]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Could Joker reverse the thrust and make the Normandy stationary? Yes, he could.

Only if the engines were working, but if that was the case he could have disengaged.

And yet, you have an explanation.

Yes, my explaination is that the entire situation is bad writing. That 'explaination' though is the whole complaint of the OP in the first place.

It's a good explanation, and I agree with you. More over, I think that most of ME2 cutscenes are garbage. But that only supports the notion that the Normandy was stationary, and in free fall, and Shep could get back there and start the Mako before the wreck hit the planet. Because it had to be so.

No... it would make a lot more sense if the Normandy was sabotaged, or if everyone was killed, or Shep wasn't actually killed. Nothing had to be so.

[Tony_Knightcrawler]

Raxxman wrote...

That is an interesting point.
There are a few issues, though. First, this event happened only weeks
after ME1, before most armor did this (although I personally always used
Medical Exoskeletons and I think it'd be okay to assume he had one
equipped). Second, medi-gel is meant to return heal a body; to return
the body to homeostasis. This is the opposite of a fixative. A fixative
basically kills everything in a specific way so it retains many (but not
all) of its original features and completely ceases operation. Medi-gel
that caused your body to cease its metabolism wouldn't function as a
healing agent; it'd accelerate your death.

Shepard
landed on a planet with sub zero conditions, freezing would preserve the
body. Who knows what medi gel does, maybe it can act as a
cryo-preservant, preventing excess cellular damage to freezing.

We've
been able to freeze down human cells to liquid N2 temperatures and
resurrect them for a good number of years now using DMSO to rupture cell
membranes and Serum to create an osmotic in balance drawing liquid out
of the cells so they don't burst due to ice crystals.

This
doesn't have to be medi gels primary function, rather a bi-product of
the transfer medium, which allows rapid penetration throughout the body.

The planet would have be pretty darned cold to completely deactivate all bacteria and all destructive enzymes in his body. And even if it was that cold, as you mentioned, the water in all of his cells would expand, rupturing them. And neither of us can say that the Medi-Gel system has any preservative properties; I prefered to talk about chemical preservation because it's dumb for Sirta to build an entire preservation system into their suits that only works on really cold planets. Either way, chemical or cryogenic preservation, the suits do not have enough room to hold all of that preservative.

Moiaussi wrote...

Most of it can be explained by medigel. If you accept medigel you can accept the regrowth of everything but the brain. The scalpels, etc, might have been needed to deal with the scale of the repair... at that scale the medigel might be trying to grow overlapping body parts and need to be 'trimmed back.'

It doesn't matter if the Medi-gel returned him to 110%, super-ultra-perfect condition after the fall, he died. Once you're dead, you start to rot. No two ways about it. Okay, one way about it: preservation.

[HomicidialFrog]

Hey, Jesus did it. Why can't Shepard?

[Zulu_DFA]

justgimmedudedammit wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote... But that only supports the notion that the Normandy was stationary, and in free fall

Does not compute...how can a stationary object be moving? 

In space, yes. You are now "stationary" beside your PC, right? Do you think you are not moving? guess what, you do! At ~30 km per second!!!

Moiaussi wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Could Joker reverse the thrust and make the Normandy stationary? Yes, he could.

Only if the engines were working, but if that was the case he could have disengaged.

Not necessarily. The engines were damaged. Working, but with insufficient power... Anything. And, as I said, Joker could have hoped to pose as already dead. He was just taking chances.

And yet, you have an explanation.

Yes, my explaination is that the entire situation is bad writing. That 'explaination' though is the whole complaint of the OP in the first place.

There is far worse writing in ME2.

It's a good explanation, and I agree with you. More over, I think that most of ME2 cutscenes are garbage. But that only supports the notion that the Normandy was stationary, and in free fall, and Shep could get back there and start the Mako before the wreck hit the planet. Because it had to be so.

No... it would make a lot more sense if the Normandy was sabotaged, or if everyone was killed, or Shep wasn't actually killed. Nothing had to be so.

The writers chose it to be so. Deal with it. They only omitted why & how exactly it was possible to revive Shepard.
Plothole? No. Unexplained stuff, which can be explained, for example by the Mako.

The writers chose to put some real plotholes in ME2, that cannot be solved. Like everything that happens during the "All team on shuttle" sequence. It has no explantion. It is bad writing. Why not bash the writers for that part?

And Shepard wasn't actually killed. Not for good. Not quite. He was dead clinically, and legally. But not theoretically.
He says it himself to a C-Sec officer: "I was only mostly dead".

[Fiery Phoenix]

I always wondered if the "mostly dead" bit was literal. Jacob, on the other hand, says "dead as dead can be."

Modifié par FieryPhoenix7, 30 août 2010 - 09:15 .

[Zulu_DFA]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

I always wondered if the "mostly dead" bit was literal. Jacob, on the other hand, says "dead as dead can be."

Feron in Redemption:

"... or very close to it."

[Fiery Phoenix]

Wow! Thanks for posting that, Zulu! But what about Jacob's comment?

Modifié par FieryPhoenix7, 30 août 2010 - 09:38 .

[Moiaussi]

Tony_Knightcrawler wrote...

The planet would have be pretty darned cold to completely deactivate all bacteria and all destructive enzymes in his body. And even if it was that cold, as you mentioned, the water in all of his cells would expand, rupturing them. And neither of us can say that the Medi-Gel system has any preservative properties; I prefered to talk about chemical preservation because it's dumb for Sirta to build an entire preservation system into their suits that only works on really cold planets. Either way, chemical or cryogenic preservation, the suits do not have enough room to hold all of that preservative.

It wouldn't have to kill the bacteria to render them inert. Cold slows decay radically.

It doesn't matter if the Medi-gel returned him to 110%, super-ultra-perfect condition after the fall, he died. Once you're dead, you start to rot. No two ways about it. Okay, one way about it: preservation.

I was referring to the actual ressurrection process. Medigel already can heal wounds good as new. Presumably it uses DNA as the pattern and as such it could be used to do more than minor repairs. Due to the scale, it would take a lot of extra control and coordination, but in theory should be doable. You are not regrowing the same tissue.

[Zulu_DFA]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

Wow! Thanks for posting that, Zulu! But what about Jacob's comment?

How dead can you be? I you are dead, there is no you to "can" anything...

So I am not sure Jacob knows what he is talking about. He also has three more comments regarding Shepard's condition during the Lazarus project:

"Meat and tubes"

"Comatose, or worse"

And, [*ding-ding!* We have a winner here!]:

"You should ask the scientists".

[Fiery Phoenix]

^ LMAO! You've been friend-requested for that last bit, Zulu!