931 réponses à ce sujet

[Shaun555]

Science-Fiction

[didymos1120]

Shaun555 wrote...

Science-Fiction

Is it really?  I did not know that.

[ThatGamerWithSouvlaki285]

Shaun555 wrote...

Science-Fiction

THANK YOU. Somebody understands.

[oyukichan]

I've read bits and pieces of this thread over the last few weeks, but have not been able to read all posts.  Has anyone offered the suggestion that perhaps Shepard was implanted with a greybox as part of his/her N7 training?  It is possible, according to the timeline and canonical invention of the greybox (is 12 years prior to Shep's enlistment).  I could also see the Alliance thinking such a thing as being valuable for their elite agents.

I think most of us know and do not question the ability of the body to be reconstructed in the ME universe, but maybe the greybox idea could help explain how they were able to resurrect Shep's memories and personality.

It is possible, however, for a person playing ME2 to play as if the reconstruction of Shep is not as complete or accurate as TIM hoped.  I don't know how many people are taking this into consideration.  My renegade Shep, for instance, does not remember all the nasty things Cerberus did in ME1 and has no problem working with them in 2. 

Honestly, I'm not all that bothered by the fact that BioWare has not explained this in more detail.  I can accept what the story gives us.  It is fun to read everyone's theories, though.

[Zulu_DFA]

AurinShepard wrote...

I've read bits and pieces of this thread over the last few weeks, but have not been able to read all posts.  Has anyone offered the suggestion that perhaps Shepard was implanted with a greybox as part of his/her N7 training? 

Then it would make no sense to rebuild Shepard's body. Cerberus could just clone Shepard all anew, install a graybox, and here we go. That would be easier, faster and cheaper.

[Moiaussi]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

The writers chose it to be so. Deal with it. They only omitted why & how exactly it was possible to revive Shepard.
Plothole? No..

If the writer's 'it works, k?' explaination is sufficient for you then quit trying to justify it as anything more than just that.

It is a matter of suspending disbelief, and sometimes the writing makes it a lot harder than other times.

[Moiaussi]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Then it would make no sense to rebuild Shepard's body. Cerberus could just clone Shepard all anew, install a graybox, and here we go. That would be easier, faster and cheaper.

Much of Lazerus would have been, in effect, a rapid cloning set up.

[Moiaussi]

Shaun555 wrote...

Science-Fiction

Double Feature?

[Zulu_DFA]

Moiaussi wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

The writers chose it to be so. Deal with it. They only omitted why & how exactly it was possible to revive Shepard.
Plothole? No..

If the writer's 'it works, k?' explaination is sufficient for you then quit trying to justify it as anything more than just that.

It is a matter of suspending disbelief, and sometimes the writing makes it a lot harder than other times.

I have a suggestion for you: What if you kept you smart suggestions for yourself?

[JaegerBane]

Ksandor wrote...

Mass effect fields are more plausible than bringing Shepard back from dead. You just don't understand how complex brain is.

And unless you're claiming to have an understanding of the human brain comparable to human medical science 200 years in the future, then you're not in a position to judge.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 01 septembre 2010 - 05:12 .

[Ackadian]

just so you know Mister i know it all its 2010.....its 2185 in that timeline so who's to say the tec isnt there? gezz some people

[Ackadian]

Modifié par Ackadian, 01 septembre 2010 - 05:40 .

[Moiaussi]

Ackadian wrote...

just so you know Mister i know it all its 2010.....its 2185 in that timeline so who's to say the tec isnt there? gezz some people

The problem is the implications. Now that they have developed the tech and know it works, there is no particular reason they couldn't grow an army of Shepards, each with all his knowledge, or treat him as completely expendible because they could always grow a new one from a backup.

Or do similar with any given individual. Even the Geth are described as not being able to do that, and they are machine based.

[Ackadian]

Moiaussi wrote...


The problem is the implications. Now that they have developed the tech and know it works, there is no particular reason they couldn't grow an army of Shepards, each with all his knowledge, or treat him as completely expendible because they could always grow a new one from a backup.

Or do similar with any given individual. Even the Geth are described as not being able to do that, and they are machine based.

yes but they said they wanted HIM the real shepard just as he was if you grow a new one then its not him. its not hard to understand

[Moiaussi]

Ackadian wrote...
yes but they said they wanted HIM the real shepard just as he was if you grow a new one then its not him. its not hard to understand

If you grow a new one using exactly the same tissue and brain mapping they used to resurrect this one, how is it not 'the real shepard?'

If they can scan it once to recreated it, they can do so more than once.

[Ackadian]

Wow lol nuke it much????? if we MADE another you even with all of your insides the new you wouldnt be you... just a creation all they did in the game was take HIS body witch is his original and bring it back to life and remember this is 2185 not 2010... so if your alive in 2185 and we dont have the tec to do this then repost this trend.

[Moiaussi]

Ackadian wrote...

Wow lol nuke it much????? if we MADE another you even with all of your insides the new you wouldnt be you... just a creation all they did in the game was take HIS body witch is his original and bring it back to life and remember this is 2185 not 2010... so if your alive in 2185 and we dont have the tec to do this then repost this trend.

If you made another me, identical body, identical brain, identical memories, identical thought processes, how would it not be me?

If you were unable to do that, how did they ressurrect Shepard?

[oyukichan]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

AurinShepard wrote...

I've read bits and pieces of this thread over the last few weeks, but have not been able to read all posts.  Has anyone offered the suggestion that perhaps Shepard was implanted with a greybox as part of his/her N7 training? 

Then it would make no sense to rebuild Shepard's body. Cerberus could just clone Shepard all anew, install a graybox, and here we go. That would be easier, faster and cheaper.

But then wouldn't some of the scanners pick up that it was a clone of Shepard and not Shepard?  I cannot remember the exact dialogue, but on the Citadel (and maybe some other locations?) some of the npcs make a point of saying that "you are you" and there's no fooling the scanners.  Or something to that effect.  That is how I interpreted it anyway.  I mean, a clone's flesh would not be as old as real Shepard's.  A refined form of carbon dating could determine the difference.  Unless radiation from space travel completely effs with the principles behind carbon dating...

[Relinquished2]

In the beginning of ME2 Jacob says to Shepard;

"You've been officially dead for 2 years and you were on an opperating table for most of it. Comatose or worse the entire time."

So, what I think, after the normandy got destroyed a salvage party found Shepard and put him in some kind of stasis pod to be brought to the Shadow Broker and all that redemption comix stuff.


At the end Liara brought him to cerberus and after 1.5 years of surgery, TADAAA Illusive Shepard!!!

Modifié par Relinquished2, 01 septembre 2010 - 08:18 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

AurinShepard wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

AurinShepard wrote...

I've read bits and pieces of this thread over the last few weeks, but have not been able to read all posts.  Has anyone offered the suggestion that perhaps Shepard was implanted with a greybox as part of his/her N7 training? 

Then it would make no sense to rebuild Shepard's body. Cerberus could just clone Shepard all anew, install a graybox, and here we go. That would be easier, faster and cheaper.

But then wouldn't some of the scanners pick up that it was a clone of Shepard and not Shepard?  I cannot remember the exact dialogue, but on the Citadel (and maybe some other locations?) some of the npcs make a point of saying that "you are you" and there's no fooling the scanners.  Or something to that effect.  That is how I interpreted it anyway.  I mean, a clone's flesh would not be as old as real Shepard's.  A refined form of carbon dating could determine the difference.  Unless radiation from space travel completely effs with the principles behind carbon dating...

Being alive completely "effs" with the principles.  The clock starts after death, after "fresh" carbon is no longer being brought into the organism.

[GifMike]

Ksandor wrote...

You can't bring Shepard back from dead -- it is impossible.

If you are brain dead your neurons and neural pathways and protein based memory molecules decompose. Since nobody knows what protein based memories and neural pathways Shepard had in life reconstructing them is impossible (you can't reconstruct memories and the personality).

Besides quantum mechanics says 100% reproduction is impossible. Especially when it comes to a complex system like a thinking brain. Unless there was some sort of hibernation mechanism in Shepard's suit reviving a brain dead person is impossible.

If I were Bioware I would create circumstances where Shepard's brain could be salvaged more or less intact. At least they did not clearly state that Shepard fell to the planet. No "body" can survive that. Simple impact would pulverize the body even if the atmosphere does not contain oxygen so the body would not burn. Maybe Shepard's body was in orbit and his body suit's emergency systems preserved him to some degree. Any specifics about this in Redemption comic?

The solution would be to imply that Shepard's body recovered from orbit and the suit protected him from extreme decomposition -- especially an emergency mechanism which protected his brain. This would not directly conflict with Jacob when he said Shepard was dead as dead can be and Miranda when he summarizes the extensive damage Shepard suffered. If your brain is preserved bringing you back from dead should be possible with future tech.

I wish they just said that Shepard was in comma for 2 years. That was the most plausible solution but Bioware wanted to scandalize audience with this flashy death idea so instead they have chosen this Hollywood no brainer. They should retcon this without conflicting Mass Effect 2.

It's actually completely plausable, but it suspiciously requires reaper technology.  Was Cerberus in league with the reapers all along?  While in darkspace the reapers focused solely on regeneration research, following the scientific rules bound to darkspace.  You'd be amazed at the stuff they can do.  There isn't a plot point in the universe that can't be fully explained by just saying the phrase 'Use the Darkspace'

[brgillespie]

Don't apply real-world logic to the worlds of science-FICTION.



The characters state that it took Cerberus a ****-load of money, "biosynthetic fusion", and two entire years to rebuild Shepard. Miranda was absolutely doubtful that Shepard could be revived - it takes Wilson to convince her that it is possible. All this implies that it was very, very difficult task and that Cerberus wasn't god-moding the story. Resurrection in the Mass Effect 2 universe is possible but so expensive and time-consuming that it is virtually impossible.

[Moiaussi]

AurinShepard wrote...

But then wouldn't some of the scanners pick up that it was a clone of Shepard and not Shepard?  I cannot remember the exact dialogue, but on the Citadel (and maybe some other locations?) some of the npcs make a point of saying that "you are you" and there's no fooling the scanners.  Or something to that effect.  That is how I interpreted it anyway.  I mean, a clone's flesh would not be as old as real Shepard's.  A refined form of carbon dating could determine the difference.  Unless radiation from space travel completely effs with the principles behind carbon dating...

That's the point. He was regrown essentially from scratch, from pulp and nothingness. He also has considerable cyberware now that he didn't have before (remind you of anyone else? Saren maybe?)

How would any carbon dating equivalent work when the vast majority of cells are completely new replacement cells and much of the internal structure (bone, likely some muscle, possibly even some major organs) are not even living tissue at all? Or did you miss the glowie cracks in Shep's face initially or the descriptions of a lot of the upgrades?

Regardless, functionally any additional shepards would be identical, and the vast majority out there wouldn't have the data to make any scans meaningful.

[Moiaussi]

brgillespie wrote...

Don't apply real-world logic to the worlds of science-FICTION.

The characters state that it took Cerberus a ****-load of money, "biosynthetic fusion", and two entire years to rebuild Shepard. Miranda was absolutely doubtful that Shepard could be revived - it takes Wilson to convince her that it is possible. All this implies that it was very, very difficult task and that Cerberus wasn't god-moding the story. Resurrection in the Mass Effect 2 universe is possible but so expensive and time-consuming that it is virtually impossible.

That would be true of the first try, but the R&D is done now. Subsequent tries should be much less expensive.

[cihimi]

brgillespie wrote...

...Resurrection in the Mass Effect 2 universe is possible but so expensive and time-consuming that it is virtually impossible.

Not with medi-gel it ain't.