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[SomeBug]

You find shepards helmet intact on the normandy crash site dlc. doesnt that in some way imply the skull and by extension the brain was intact? how soon after the crash was the body found? do the comics elaborate on this.





even so. a space wizard did it. get over yourselves jesus. the game has internal logic and is consistent to it. not explaining the intricacies and exacting methods is not the same as flubbing it.

[Zurcior]

Moiaussi wrote...

Zurcior wrote...

It was presented as a longshot. Medical science doesn't alway produce absolute results.

If it was a long shot, the worry that Shep might have been even marginally different would not have been such a concern. Not to mention comments along the lines of 'it better have worked given the resources we put into this'
 
There was concern about everything about the Project. Will Shepard actually come back to life? Will we actually be able to reconstruct his/her memories? There was uncertainty.

I wasn't talking about Wrex's knowledge of science or the Lazrus Prject. I was talking about Krogan adaptability and suvivability. Pay attention.

Here's an idea.. why don't you pay attention and don't take concepts out of context. If humans can be 'mass produced', even if it takes two years each (given they can choose precisely which humans), then humans gain a different kind of survivability comperable to the Krogan.

 They are still weaker than krogans, so does it really matter if humans can be "mass produced" Shepard still only has one heart, can be paralyzed, and still can't survive toxic enviroments like a krogan can. Or is it possible that you are suggesting that only humans can be brought back by the Lazarus Project [if it manages to actually work absolutely all the time].

 The facility was compromized. Who ever made Wilson turn obviously knew where the facility was.

Yes, and for all Shep knew it could have been an Alliance or Spectre or STG operation. He never bothered to even try to find out. They could have just been after a Cerberus base, but that would not have meant they weren't allies.

 Once again, being shot at does not make people think they are being rescued. Why do you insist on that ludicrous theory?

 What makes you think the Council would know a damn thing about the Prothean language? The entire galaxy knows as little about the prothean race as they know about the reapers. Hell, even Liara didn't know the language and she spent decades researching them. Are you forgetting Shepard found that beacan AFTER his meeting with the council?

Please listen. IF THEY USE A BEACON, AND GET THE KEY FROM SHEPARD, THEY WOULD KNOW THE LANGUAGE. As for when he met with the council, THAT DEPENDS ON WHEN HE GOES TO THE CITADEL. It is not neccessarily after, and regardless, he can go back. Sheesh.. OMG, I didn't have enough evidence if he meets the councill early, so may as well burn /ignore all subsequent evidence? Regardless of the threat level of the reapers, the fleet strength of the Alliance/council or even just the thought of clearing your name?

 Exept for most people who played the game, they found the beacon AFTER meeting the Council as obviously intented by BioWare. So yes, Shepard can use that beacon to convince the Council, but in ME3 not ME2.

 Again, continue with your ignorance to basic ME story and lore. And please, continue with your half-baked assumptions.

It is not my ignorance so much as your inventing lore that does not exist and/or disregarding any lore that is inconvenient to your arguement.

 I didn't invent anything, you projecting, simple-minded, fool.  Who was the one that came up with the weaksauce assuption that Shepard should've thought he/she was being rescued despite the fact he/she was being shot at? Who is the one making hair-brained theories about the Lazarus Project? That's right. YOU.

 So please, continue. We are all laughing at you.

[Comatose2424]

Dont you guys know that this isnt a fictional video game? This is real life. I dont know how Bioware did it, they really must be Gods to bring that man Shepard back to life.



/sarcasm

[Moiaussi]

[quote]Zurcior wrote...

1. Shepard didn't trust them. How many times must I say that? It was up until Freedom's Progress that Shep agrees to work with them. Even after Freedom's Progress [if you're Paragon] he doesn't trust them [at the very least, not the Illusive Man, anyway]. And it probably would make a difference as to who investigated Freedom's Progress. Cerberus got there first, and who knows how long it took Alliance investigators to arrive after Cerberus left? Many thing could have happend to Tali and her squad if Cerberus and Shepard didn't arrive in time.[/quote]

And Shepard could have met an Alliance ship from the hijacked shuttle. I would think that a Cerberus crew held at gunpoint or locked up in the shuttle's cargo bay would have gone a long way towards proving Shep wasn't working for Cerberus. You don't know what would have happened if Shepard had chosen differently, you are just treating it like nothing would have changed. TIM would have still had the same incentive to tip Shepard off regarding Freedom's Progress. Shep didn't even know for certain that he was actually dead. For all he knows he was just in a coma all that time while Cerberus tried to figure out a way to pick his brain.

 [quote]2. Once again, if it was a rescue mission, why did the mechs shoot at Shepard? Tali and/or Garrus would have known better than to program the mechs to just "rebel". They wouldn't take a chance like that as it could result in Shepards death. It doesn't matter how much confidence you have in someone's combat ability, you don't shoot-to-kill the person you're trying to rescue.[/quote]

Why didn't Shepard program the mech on Omega not to fire on him or his companions? It is a LOT easier to simply override FFA coding than to program in new parameters for people who are not wearing some sort of identification transponder. In fact, the latter is nigh impossible. 

I notice that you have conveniently ignored the concept that it didn't have to be a rescue attempt for the attack to be 'friendly.'

 3. Once again, this all ties into the assuption that Shep should have thought he was being rescued. Which he wasn't and which he didn't.[/quote]

No, it doesn't. The Alliance and the Council consider Cerberus to be a terrorist organization. The base could have been under attack having no clue Shep was there. Shepard didn't even try to investigate. They made it to the mech control room, but didn't even look at the controls? Pardon?

[smudboy]

SomeBug wrote...

You find shepards helmet intact on the normandy crash site dlc. doesnt that in some way imply the skull and by extension the brain was intact? how soon after the crash was the body found? do the comics elaborate on this.


even so. a space wizard did it. get over yourselves jesus. the game has internal logic and is consistent to it. not explaining the intricacies and exacting methods is not the same as flubbing it.

BWAHAHAHAHA!

[Zurcior]

[quote]Moiaussi wrote...

[quote]Zurcior wrote...

1. Shepard didn't trust them. How many times must I say that? It was up until Freedom's Progress that Shep agrees to work with them. Even after Freedom's Progress [if you're Paragon] he doesn't trust them [at the very least, not the Illusive Man, anyway]. And it probably would make a difference as to who investigated Freedom's Progress. Cerberus got there first, and who knows how long it took Alliance investigators to arrive after Cerberus left? Many thing could have happend to Tali and her squad if Cerberus and Shepard didn't arrive in time.[/quote]

And Shepard could have met an Alliance ship from the hijacked shuttle. I would think that a Cerberus crew held at gunpoint or locked up in the shuttle's cargo bay would have gone a long way towards proving Shep wasn't working for Cerberus. You don't know what would have happened if Shepard had chosen differently, you are just treating it like nothing would have changed. TIM would have still had the same incentive to tip Shepard off regarding Freedom's Progress. Shep didn't even know for certain that he was actually dead. For all he knows he was just in a coma all that time while Cerberus tried to figure out a way to pick his brain.

 And while Shep is off clearing his name with two Cerberus operatives in custody, Tali and her squad is getting pulverized by a heavy mech. Shepard and Cerberus got to the site quickly and dealt with the situation. While it took the Alliance investigators longer to get there. Besides, the Illlusive Man was already leaking information that Shepard was working for Cerberus as evident when the Council mentioned as much. How else would they have heard such rumors?
 
[quote]2. Once again, if it was a rescue mission, why did the mechs shoot at Shepard? Tali and/or Garrus would have known better than to program the mechs to just "rebel". They wouldn't take a chance like that as it could result in Shepards death. It doesn't matter how much confidence you have in someone's combat ability, you don't shoot-to-kill the person you're trying to rescue.[/quote]

Why didn't Shepard program the mech on Omega not to fire on him or his companions? It is a LOT easier to simply override FFA coding than to program in new parameters for people who are not wearing some sort of identification transponder. In fact, the latter is nigh impossible. 

I notice that you have conveniently ignored the concept that it didn't have to be a rescue attempt for the attack to be 'friendly.'

 If it is nigh impossible, why bother taking such an unneeded and counter-intuative risk with the life of someone you are trying to rescue?

3. Once again, this all ties into the assuption that Shep should have thought he was being rescued. Which he wasn't and which he didn't.[/quote]

No, it doesn't. The Alliance and the Council consider Cerberus to be a terrorist organization. The base could have been under attack having no clue Shep was there. Shepard didn't even try to investigate. They made it to the mech control room, but didn't even look at the controls? Pardon?[/quote]

 So you changed your mind? It isn't a rescue attempt anymore? So now the Council fleet somehow finds a Cerberus facility, and, without an offer of surrender, hacks Cerberus mechs to do the job instead of a highly trained strike team to board the ship just in case? No ships to surround the facilty just in case an escape pod or shuttle makes a break for it? And Shepard has to magicly assume allies are attacking and, knowing so, makes a break for it as well?  Geez, how did Shepard miss all those Council ships and troops? Come on, man.

[Zurcior]

Oh, I almost forgot. They never made it into the Mech Control Room.

[brgillespie]

Bump, for great justice. I want to see more folks vehemently arguing over this.

Modifié par brgillespie, 05 octobre 2010 - 10:03 .

[Moiaussi]

Zurcior wrote...

And while Shep is off clearing his name with two Cerberus operatives in custody, Tali and her squad is getting pulverized by a heavy mech. Shepard and Cerberus got to the site quickly and dealt with the situation. While it took the Alliance investigators longer to get there. Besides, the Illlusive Man was already leaking information that Shepard was working for Cerberus as evident when the Council mentioned as much. How else would they have heard such rumors?

You do realize this is fiction, right? Tali and her squad are only in danger because the writers wrote it that way? Leaking the information doesn't make it true. Showing up in a Cerberus ship with a Cerberus crew confirms such rumours. Showing up with Cerberus captives brings doubt to them. Shep could also legitimately claim to have been a prisoner of Cerberus for the last two years. He was just too dead to escape til now.

 If it is nigh impossible, why bother taking such an unneeded and counter-intuative risk with the life of someone you are trying to rescue?

It might have been Wilson acting against orders for his own reasons or it could have been assumed that as a prisoner, Shep would be secure and safe from the mechs (unlikely, but possible). Or it might not have been a rescue attempt.

 So you changed your mind? It isn't a rescue attempt anymore? So now the Council fleet somehow finds a Cerberus facility, and, without an offer of surrender, hacks Cerberus mechs to do the job instead of a highly trained strike team to board the ship just in case? No ships to surround the facilty just in case an escape pod or shuttle makes a break for it? And Shepard has to magicly assume allies are attacking and, knowing so, makes a break for it as well?  Geez, how did Shepard miss all those Council ships and troops? Come on, man.

There being multiple possibilities in Shepard's favour is more in his favour not less. There didn't need to be a ton of anything It was a small base. He missed anything that might have been there simply by not looking out the window. There might also have been an offer of surrender. Shepard was never in the comm room. Shepard was even in the mech station (where they find wilson) and doesn't even try to turn the mechs back off. And again, it isn't 'magically assuming.' It is 'investigating.'

[Ramikadyc]

Watch, play, or read anything related to Sci-Fi and you'll see that resurrection/cloning/bioengineering is not just possible, it's the order of the day. Don't like the fact that, oh dear--real world logic is not being applied to my fictional video game!--and are confused about that? I might suggest that, from now on, you watch documentaries, read biographies, and play...with yourself, for the rest of your life.

[smudboy]

Ramikadyc wrote...

Watch, play, or read anything related to Sci-Fi and you'll see that resurrection/cloning/bioengineering is not just possible, it's the order of the day. Don't like the fact that, oh dear--real world logic is not being applied to my fictional video game!--and are confused about that? I might suggest that, from now on, you watch documentaries, read biographies, and play...with yourself, for the rest of your life.

It's not the order of the day.  Unless you have some examples.

Star Trek did it once or twice, I think.  Whereupon Q, a Sufficiently Advanced Alien, bring Picard back to life through his Q powers.  Babylon 5 essentially does the same with Lorien and Sheridan, where he shares his life force.

ME2?  Ah.  Well.   There's some needles.  Blue fluid.  Ah...these glowing metal clamps that do...something.  Then there were some audio logs by Miranda which raised more questions.

So, nope, not buying it.  ME2 didn't know what the hell it was doing.  There were too many questions raised and it's simply unbelievable.

Just because it can exist in a sci-fi universe, doesn't mean the audience can accept it, especially in the way ME2 presented it.

[Moiaussi]

Ramikadyc wrote...

Watch, play, or read anything related to Sci-Fi and you'll see that resurrection/cloning/bioengineering is not just possible, it's the order of the day. Don't like the fact that, oh dear--real world logic is not being applied to my fictional video game!--and are confused about that? I might suggest that, from now on, you watch documentaries, read biographies, and play...with yourself, for the rest of your life.

Cloning and bioengineering definatly (although cloning often gets used very badly). Ressurection? Pardon? Cite any good sci fi in which it is used in such a throwaway fashion.

[Ramikadyc]

smudboy wrote...

Ramikadyc wrote...

Watch, play, or read anything related to Sci-Fi and you'll see that resurrection/cloning/bioengineering is not just possible, it's the order of the day. Don't like the fact that, oh dear--real world logic is not being applied to my fictional video game!--and are confused about that? I might suggest that, from now on, you watch documentaries, read biographies, and play...with yourself, for the rest of your life.

It's not the order of the day.  Unless you have some examples.

Star Trek did it once or twice, I think.  Whereupon Q, a Sufficiently Advanced Alien, bring Picard back to life through his Q powers.  Babylon 5 essentially does the same with Lorien and Sheridan, where he shares his life force.

ME2?  Ah.  Well.   There's some needles.  Blue fluid.  Ah...these glowing metal clamps that do...something.  Then there were some audio logs by Miranda which raised more questions.

So, nope, not buying it.  ME2 didn't know what the hell it was doing.  There were too many questions raised and it's simply unbelievable.

Just because it can exist in a sci-fi universe, doesn't mean the audience can accept it, especially in the way ME2 presented it.

Maybe "order of the day" doesn't accurately describe it, since that implies it's as common as spaceships and non-human enemies. Regardless, the exaggeration serves my rhetoric; just about every sci-fi universe that exists in more than a single format that I've experienced has done this sort of thing. And if they haven't done this (resurrection, cloning, etc--things rooted in real-life pursuits that have not yet been successful), then they have done others that are similarly far-fetched.

Regardless of whether or not you think the execution of such a plot device was done well has no bearing on the subject. The OP has rooted his main argument about why this shouldn't have been done to Shepard, or in Mass Effect, in reality's logic. And I know this is no surprise to you, judging by the examples you've given (thanks, by the way, for doing that and saving me the time), but the logic of reality means nothing in a fictional sci-fi universe as long as it's being used in a way that allows the audience to potentially grasp the concepts of why things are happening. Keyword there is "potentially." The fact that it works for me and for lots (maybe most) of ME fans is proof enough that it did its job, plebs though we may be.

Now, if you're arguing beyond that which I'm interested in (that being the "rooted in realism" rhetoric of the OP), then I'm no longer interested, because when it comes to that you would be right, in your own way, as I would be right in my own way, just like everyone else with an opinion would be right in theirs. It gets silly at that point, and it's a waste of time.

[earthbornFemShep]

Um... this is fiction.... science fiction...

Science fiction can be defined as "a form of fiction that draws imaginatively on scientific knowledge and speculation in its plot, setting, theme, etc. " - Dictionary.com

You are focusing on the "scientific knowledge" part.  However, the "draws imaginatively" is key here.  It's not real science! 

Another definition: "Works of fiction that use scientific discoveries or advanced technology — either actual or imaginary — as part of their plot." -American Heritage New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy

Another definition: "a literary genre that makes imaginative use of scientific knowledge or conjecture" - Collins English Dictionary
Bottom line, use your imagination... it doesn't have to make perfect sense. 

[Iakus]

[quote]Ramikadyc wrote...

Maybe "order of the day" doesn't accurately describe it, since that implies it's as common as spaceships and non-human enemies. Regardless, the exaggeration serves my rhetoric; just about every sci-fi universe that exists in more than a single format that I've experienced has done this sort of thing. And if they haven't done this (resurrection, cloning, etc--things rooted in real-life pursuits that have not yet been successful), then they have done others that are similarly far-fetched.[/quote]

Science fiction stories can and do bring back the recently deceased with futuristic technology.  Recently deceased.  Typically with an intact body.  Even in ME 1 Kaiden mentioned that the turian he killed might have been saved "if they'd treated him in time" or something like that..  Two year dead corpse.  Exposure to vacuum, radiation, and terminal velocity?  Well inside  "Oh, come on!" range.  Yet they brought him back, with nothing but a handwave and a Phased Linear Oscillation Transducer device.


[/quote]
Regardless of whether or not you think the execution of such a plot device was done well has no bearing on the subject. The OP has rooted his main argument about why this shouldn't have been done to Shepard, or in Mass Effect, in reality's logic. And I know this is no surprise to you, judging by the examples you've given (thanks, by the way, for doing that and saving me the time), but the logic of reality means nothing in a fictional sci-fi universe as long as it's being used in a way that allows the audience to potentially grasp the concepts of why things are happening. Keyword there is "potentially." The fact that it works for me and for lots (maybe most) of ME fans is proof enough that it did its job, plebs though we may be.
[/quote]

Logic absolutely has meaning in a science fiction world.  In any world in fact.  Regardless of the differences in the laws of physics between the Mass Effect world and our own, the laws must remain internally consistent for any story set in that universe to make sense.  You can't drop a Minbari in the Serenity universe.  Not just because of copyright, but because there are no aliens in the Serenity universe (I suppose you could in some fanfiction crossover thing, but you see what I mean)

Mass Effect operates on different rules from reality, but it must still adhere to its own rules.  And we saw absolutely nothing in ME 1 to contradict that dead is dead.   You can't just say "A wizard did it!"  Or in this case "A mass effect field did it!"

Modifié par iakus, 06 octobre 2010 - 12:17 .

[Moiaussi]

earthbornFemShep wrote...

Um... this is fiction.... science fiction...

Science fiction can be defined as "a form of fiction that draws imaginatively on scientific knowledge and speculation in its plot, setting, theme, etc. " - Dictionary.com

You are focusing on the "scientific knowledge" part.  However, the "draws imaginatively" is key here.  It's not real science! 

Another definition: "Works of fiction that use scientific discoveries or advanced technology — either actual or imaginary — as part of their plot." -American Heritage New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy

Another definition: "a literary genre that makes imaginative use of scientific knowledge or conjecture" - Collins English Dictionary
Bottom line, use your imagination... it doesn't have to make perfect sense. 

It is not just a question of whether ressurection can work in science fiction, it the issue that it is a tricky subject to use well. In ME2 it is not used well at all. Saying 'but it is science fiction' isn't a panacea. The implication is that you feel there is no such thing as bad science fiction... in which case you would presumably have been just as happy with ME2 if Shepard had been bought back as a giant cyborg bunny with a special cuteness attack.

Accepting that would be 'using your imagination' too 

[smudboy]

Ramikadyc wrote...
Maybe "order of the day" doesn't accurately describe it, since that implies it's as common as spaceships and non-human enemies. Regardless, the exaggeration serves my rhetoric; just about every sci-fi universe that exists in more than a single format that I've experienced has done this sort of thing. And if they haven't done this (resurrection, cloning, etc--things rooted in real-life pursuits that have not yet been successful), then they have done others that are similarly far-fetched.

Just because everyone else does it, doesn't mean it's a good thing to do in this story, let alone it being executed well at all.  Which it wasn't.

Regardless of whether or not you think the execution of such a plot device was done well has no bearing on the subject.

Considering that is the subject, then yes, it would be of paramount importance on how it was executed.

The OP has rooted his main argument about why this shouldn't have been done to Shepard, or in Mass Effect, in reality's logic. And I know this is no surprise to you, judging by the examples you've given (thanks, by the way, for doing that and saving me the time), but the logic of reality means nothing in a fictional sci-fi universe as long as it's being used in a way that allows the audience to potentially grasp the concepts of why things are happening.

Whereas the "logic" of a work fo fiction can subvert "real life-logic", ME2 didn't even bother with that.  In order for fictional logic to work, it needs to show, tell, or explain how it works.  For example, a Resurrection machine.  A mass-effect field resurrection thingie.  Super-duper-medigel.  An explanation on cryo-recovery.  How about the brain?  The narrative could've done dozens of things to lampshade the implausibility of how this occurs through a medical miracle, but it didn't get anywhere close.

So yes, fictional logic in a fictional universe, can circumvent "normal" logic, if it, you know, actually circumvents it.  Simply telling us "We resurrected Shepard" which happens to be in that fictional universe, is nonsensical.

Keyword there is "potentially." The fact that it works for me and for lots (maybe most) of ME fans is proof enough that it did its job, plebs though we may be.

That's fine.  I'm telling you it doesn't work for me.  And so far, you haven't explained how it works.

Now, if you're arguing beyond that which I'm interested in (that being the "rooted in realism" rhetoric of the OP), then I'm no longer interested, because when it comes to that you would be right, in your own way, as I would be right in my own way, just like everyone else with an opinion would be right in theirs. It gets silly at that point, and it's a waste of time.

No, this is not about being right or wrong. This is looking at the narrative, and seeing and hearing what it gives us. And we look at the narrative, and we find a boat load of questions that aren't explained (considering how Shepard died/war preserved/was brought back), a lot of exposition that isn't given (and some that is, which is false), and a lot of "who the hell cares" in the subsequent storytelling which makes this "no big deal", even when it should be a colossal deal when the savior of the galaxy becomes Jesus.

Modifié par smudboy, 06 octobre 2010 - 12:15 .

[SpiderFan1217]

brgillespie wrote...

Bump, for great justice. I want to see more folks vehemently arguing over this.

Apparently, ask and ye shall receive. Personally, I feel the OP is wrong. We have no way of knowing what tech the ME universe has. I feel that to assume they can't do it based on our inability to do it negates the whole fi in Sci-fi.

[smudboy]

earthbornFemShep wrote...

Um... this is fiction.... science fiction...

Really?  Seems more like Wizard Fiction.

Science fiction can be defined as "a form of fiction that draws imaginatively on scientific knowledge and speculation in its plot, setting, theme, etc. " - Dictionary.com

It can also be termed as "stuff that happens in the future, with a focus on science."

You are focusing on the "scientific knowledge" part.  However, the "draws imaginatively" is key here.  It's not real science! 

We are?  What aspect of the scientific knowledge are we focusing on?  There's really not much to focus on in the narrative, especially when we see Shepard hurtling through outer space, magically surviving re-entry and planetary impact, enough to be found by a merc gang however long after, somehow preserved, and then somehow brought back to life with glowing blue fluid and glowing metal skeleton clamps.

Another definition: "Works of fiction that use scientific discoveries or advanced technology — either actual or imaginary — as part of their plot." -American Heritage New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy

Another definition: "a literary genre that makes imaginative use of scientific knowledge or conjecture" - Collins English Dictionary
Bottom line, use your imagination... it doesn't have to make perfect sense. 

It's not my job to use my imagination.  It's the writers to use their imagination and explain, show, and tell me what kind of crack they're on.  Because this Cyber Jesus Death, Preservation and Rebirth just don't fly.

[Ramikadyc]

[quote]iakus wrote...


Logic absolutely has meaning in a science fiction world.  In any world in fact.  Regardless of the differences in the laws of physics between the Mass Effect world and our own, the laws must remain internally consistent for any story set in that universe to make sense.  You can't drop a Minbari in the Serenity universe.  Not just because of copyright, but because there are no aliens in the Serenity universe (I suppose you could in some fanfiction crossover thing, but you see what I mean)[/quote]

[/quote]

... the logic of reality means nothing in a
fictional sci-fi universe as long as it's being used in a way that
allows the audience to potentially grasp the concepts of why things are
happening.

[/quote]

I said that, in a different way. If you're saying that the events surrounding this issue in ME2 are not internally consistent, I beg to differ. That's not why I posted in this thread, though, but I will say that Cerberus' being this secret organization with tons of resources and...secrets, who also participate in grossly illegal activities is what makes the "Shepard rebirth" plot consistent and feasible in my mind, since it's obvious that throughout the Mass Effect stories new technologies and evolved methodologies are constantly being uncovered or revealed, therefore Cerberus had been working on this project (Lazerus Project) in secret (being a capable enigmatic shadow organization) and had actually managed to produce results (after an almost unreal amount of resources were poured into the project). Basically, the story covers itself in all the ways a story has to in order to stay consistent, as far as I can tell.

Although I regret saying "fictional sci-fi universe." That's totaly redundant.

[StarcloudSWG]

Smud, I'm guessing in real life you're an engineer or a movie critic. Because it sure sounds like you want every little detail explained and every plot point expounded on at length, and you have no imagination to fill in the unspoken details yourself.

Modifié par StarcloudSWG, 06 octobre 2010 - 12:28 .

[earthbornFemShep]

smudboy wrote...

It's not my job to use my imagination. 

In all forms of creativity, using your imagination is required to get the most out of the experience.  Though it is most important in books and theatre, it is still important in other mediums.  If all authors spoonfed us logical explanations for everything, it would take something out of the experience--not to mention becoming dull.  This is not to say that authors have no responsibility to make events fit coherently in the story; that is for the audience to decide in the end (EDIT: by choosing whether or not to purchase). 

Moiaussi wrote...
The implication is that you feel there is no such thing as bad science
fiction... in which case you would presumably have been just as happy
with ME2 if Shepard had been bought back as a giant cyborg bunny with a
special cuteness attack.

Accepting that would be 'using your imagination' too

If you are arguing that you just don't like this whole resurrection idea, that is one thing.  However, shep becoming a "cyborg bunny"  would be catastrophe, obviously.  I'm not saying there isn't bad scifi. I'm simply saying the OP's argument is not sound because anything can happen in scifi. 

Ksandor wrote...
You can't bring Shepard back from dead -- it is impossible.

My point is this:  nothing is impossible in fiction.

I'm not saying that this was a perfect plot device... but it surely beats him becoming a furry rodent.  However, I don't think Bioware needs to apologize for it.  It is their right as its creators to make it into whatever they want.  However, if Shep becomes a bunny, you can bet I won't be partaking in their future games...

Modifié par earthbornFemShep, 06 octobre 2010 - 12:42 .

[Ramikadyc]

smudboy wrote...

A BUNCH OF STUFF

You're obviously stuck on something I said. Then again, maybe I'm not understanding the point of the topic. I read only the original post, and assumed it was "this can't happen because it's not possible." So I moseyed on in and said, "sci-fi doesn't need your approval to make sense" in more words than that.

So, does the resurrection thing make sense, from a sci-fi perspective? Yes, it does. That's all I care about.

Do you think it does a good job of telling a story that makes sense? Do you think something should be different? Do you enjoy or dislike this particular plot device? That's what I don't care about, because it has absolutely nothing to do with "does this make sense." Your approval in any of those departments is not required for the story to make sense.

What you're arguing about is how good the story is, or how well the story does in tying the plot lines together. I guess you just don't realize it. That, however, is not what I'm bothering with.

But I do understand that it's fun to talk about. That's just not what I'm interested in here.

[smudboy]

StarcloudSWG wrote...

Smud, I'm guessing in real life you're an engineer or a movie critic. Because it sure sounds like you want every little detail explained and every plot point expounded on at length, and you have no imagination to fill in the unspoken details yourself.

No, you misunderstand what I'm saying.  I do not need every detail explained.

We need sufficient details presented to us in the apprpriate ways to buy a medical miracle.  In the Star Trek and Babylon 5 examples, there are Sufficiently Advanced Aliens with magic powers that are essentially wizards.  That makes the suspension of disbelief easy to buy.  A wizard did it.

A medical miracle would involve science.  There could be a Resurrection Machine: a machine did it.  There could be a Resurrection chemical: a very rare compound it.  In either case, we can point and reference that thing.

However, that's just one part of the puzzle of Shepard's resurrection.  We still need to know how they got to that point, which the cutscenes just fade to black toward the hurtling toward Alchera scene.  Thus we need to be told or shown 1) How Shepard died.  This will help us understand why the Resurrection Machine/whatever was used, to correct that problem(s) the 2 year long process took, everything from repairing organs to using cybernetics  2) How Shepard was preserved shows us what state it was in, and what aspects didn't kill Shepard (apparently no atmospheric burn or being pulverized on the planet, yet the memories of their brain are intact (let alone the brain.)), and finally 3) How Shepard was brought back (machine, serum, wizard, mad genius researcher, etc.)

[mundus66]

Yes scientifically i guess its "impossible" but so is just about everything in ME; Mass Relays? Faster than light? Biotics?

Anyway when you die decomposition doesn't start right away, it takes a while. After they recovered Shepards body they froze it, which could mean decomposition hadn't even started yet. Plus there are already software which takes chunks of data and fills in the blanks to rebuild it, what says in 200 years (and its actually more since mankind got uplifted by the prophean technology) we cant have something that does the same for memories? His memories might be damaged and incomplete, but they aren't completely gone.