931 réponses à ce sujet

[Saibh]

/popcorn



I hope that these are actual scientific mumbo-jumbo facts coming out of everyone's mouths, because somehow making science relevant to ME is much more interesting than lecture halls.

[smudboy]

Radgen1 wrote...

Again, terminal velocity is NOT static. Terminal velocity at 100,000 ft IS much faster that it is at 1,000 ft. Barring any other forces, if you reach terminal velocity at the higher reaches, you will SLOW DOWN as you drop through the atmosphere to the thicker lower reaches.

So when velocity becomes terminal, what does that mean?  I thought it means the rate of acceleration = 0.

We don't know the exact details of the atmosphere on Achea. If it is even a little denser, that combined with the lowere gravity would mean a much lower terminal velocity at impact than you would find even on earth. Since we have real world examples of people surving terminal velocity impacts here on earth. Surviving the one described in ME2 is certainly plausible.

And how fast were they traveling?  50 mph?  500 mph?  1,500 mph?  The rate of explosive velocity is anywhere from 1800 m/s to 10300 m/s.  Shepard is clearly seen being pushed away by an explosion, in space.  Since there is no drag and space, and thus no terminal velocity, in space, wouldn't Shepard be moving really, really fast?

Although that then asks why they didn't burn up in the atmosphere, let alone get pulverized upon hitting the planet.

I don't know why that trips you up so bad when the existence of biotics which is REALLY out there as far as plausibility goes does not.

What does biotics have to do with a corpse entering an atmosphere?

[Iakus]

Radgen1 wrote...


We don't know the exact details of the atmosphere on Achea. If it is even a little denser, that combined with the lowere gravity would mean a much lower terminal velocity at impact than you would find even on earth. Since we have real world examples of people surving terminal velocity impacts here on earth. Surviving the one described in ME2 is certainly plausible.

I don't know if it helps or no, but according to the wiki, Alchea stats include:

Atm. Pressure:
0.83 atm

Surface Temp:
−22 °C

Surface Gravity:
0.85 g

Mass:
1.767 Earth Masses

Methane and ammonia atmosphere, carbon and water ice surface.  Sounds like Shepard would have left a crater.

So here's a question, assuming Shep's corpse didn't simply break apart from falling through the atmosphere and impacting on the surface, that atmosphere sounds pretty caustic.  If he/she was left exposed in that (ruptured and, by now, a liekly thoroughly trashed suit) for any length of time, wouldn't the body kinda dissolve?

I don't know why that trips you up so bad when the existence of biotics which is REALLY out there as far as plausibility goes does not.

The difference, at least for me, is that mass effects and biotics were established fact in the game universe literally from the start of the first game.  What they can do and thier limitations are pretty well spelled out.  They are internally consistent with the rules set out in the Mass Effect universe.  Ressurection is not one of the established qualities of eezo.

Ressurection treatments came totally out of the blue.  No explanations as to how it's possible.  Just that it's really really expensive.  Which is not enough.

[Radgen1]

For one thing biotics are common and so an explaination for how it works in more detail is warrented. The revival of Shepard on the other hand was obviously more of a one shot effort that required far more in resources and effort than really could be justified for any one man espicially since they weren't sure they could do it. It is not something they are going to repeat for the masses.



Despite that they did offer SOME explaination if you paid attention. They spent two years repairing his body useing both biological and cybernetic techniques to the point it could again function. As long as you can accept that they could keep his brain in a state where it could be revived then I don't see what the problem is. If that is your only tripping point then I just can't see why THIS amoung all the other things in the game that are at the edge of plausibility give you such an issue.



Hell just look at medigel. Other than being told WHAT it does we are given almost no expalination of how it works yet i don't see you ****ing about that. It is a textbook example of SiFi handwaverism



The detail of how he was revived are irrelevant to the story anyway. He had to die and be revived to isolate him from his previous support structure and make it a logical decision for him to work with Cerberus instead. If he had only been badly injured, why would Liara have handed him over to Cerberus? Wouldn't she have simply returned him to Alliance medical care no matter how badly off he was? It was his being dead that made her desperate act of handing him over to Cerberus have any logic to it.



The Alliance would try to heal a badly injured Shepard. Only Cerberus was insane enough to try and revive him from death.

[TuringPoint]

Shepard was indeed pushed away by an explosion, but Shepard wasn't at the center of the explosion. Cars run on lots of contained explosions and they don't go anywhere near as fast as an explosion.

Also, he was wearing armor.  The jet that was being tested flying at 500 mph was not only hitting a harder surface than Shepard would, but was made of lighter stuff, most likely aluminum.  The armor is designed to withstand mass effect driven projectiles to some extent.  

I don't know that this makes a difference, but I'll try and think of how shepard's body might have survived.

If seat belts protect a person going seventy, eighty miles an hour with opposing traffic approximately the same, probably with broken bones or fractures but alive, Shepards body might have survived.  Not to mention all the race cars that get crashed, which defintely kill many people, but the cars don't vaporize.  That brings us to maybe 300 or 400 mph?  I'm not sure.  

So lets so the atmosphere slowed him to 450.  Shepard would definitely die, be crushed, but with armor and other circumstances - such as snow or ice - might his body survive?

But it was pretty clear there was cellular breakdown, "worse than they had feared" according to miranda's log.  

I like the explanation someone wrote up of rebuilding Shepard's neural pathways.  I thought it was something I might have missed in the game briefly.

Modifié par Alocormin, 07 octobre 2010 - 06:18 .

[Moiaussi]

See, medi-gel I can understand. It doesn't have to regrow the tissue exactly identical to what it was before. During normal growth and development, cells take on specialized functions in the right places due to the genetic data stored in the original material. Since dna doesn't actually change during growth, those instructions are presumably still there, and if the ability to read the map to sufficient detail that cells can remember where they are and what to regrow, and provided the cell material and nanites to manipulate it according to those instructions, medi gel could exist.



The brain is another matter. Memories are not stored in the dna. How to build cells that can hold memories is stored in the dna, but not the memories themselves. So there would be no pattern to read to restore them.



If there is a readable pattern, it would also be able to read minds. There being no hints of any such mind reading tech existing, Shepard's ressurrection seems unlikely.



Furthermore, the existance of ressurrection technology is problematic generally. So it took scads of credits to achieve... the first time. Most of that would have been R&D. Even if lazarus base conveniently blew up (which should really tic TIM off, given the cost), presumably the data was transmitted and in TIM's hands. Next time would be a lot cheaper, since the R&D is done.

[Phaedon]

smudboy wrote...

Bioware should get a writer who maybe actually reads science or is a scientist and put them in charge, if you're so gung-ho about this science angle.  I just want their stories to make goddamned sense, let alone be written well.

Exactly like Star Wars and Star Trek does,right ? 
At least things make some sense in the Mass Effect universe.

[Notker_Biloba]

I'll admit that I was initially making up numbers so that my theory would work, not realizing that there were published stats on planets in the ME universe. It's true that lower atmospheric pressure combined with lower molecular mass of air molecules (ammonia and methane, i.e. about half the mass of Earth's air, which is mostly oxygen and nitrogen) amounts to lower air density, though the lower surface temperature brings it up slightly, but still about half of Earth's air density. But the surface gravity is about a sixth less than Earth's, so terminal velocity is about 1.3 times that of Earth, since it's proportional to the square root of (gravity)/(air density). So we're talking 158 mph or so, assuming she's falling with the maximum surface area facing the planet's surface. Apparently she landed in a very, very thick snowdrift.

Modifié par Notker_Biloba, 07 octobre 2010 - 12:57 .

[smudboy]

Phaedon wrote...

smudboy wrote...

Bioware should get a writer who maybe actually reads science or is a scientist and put them in charge, if you're so gung-ho about this science angle.  I just want their stories to make goddamned sense, let alone be written well.

Exactly like Star Wars and Star Trek does,right ? 
At least things make some sense in the Mass Effect universe.

They actually had consultants to come up with mechanical and technical designs on how some ST stuff  worked.

Anyone coming anywhere close to J.Michael's skill in writing would be worth the experience.

The only thing ME has going for it are ME fields and Prothean artifacts.  Again, if they wanted to go the medical miracle route, they're either going to have to use science properly, or literary devices.

[smudboy]

Radgen1 wrote...

For one thing biotics are common and so an explaination for how it works in more detail is warrented. The revival of Shepard on the other hand was obviously more of a one shot effort that required far more in resources and effort than really could be justified for any one man espicially since they weren't sure they could do it. It is not something they are going to repeat for the masses.

Which is why it is of such singular importance, and requires more detail, let alone far more impact on the events and effects of people, the science community, Shepard, and the narrative in general.  They're literally going Biblical on function and next to nothing on description or impact.

Despite that they did offer SOME explaination if you paid attention. They spent two years repairing his body useing both biological and cybernetic techniques to the point it could again function. As long as you can accept that they could keep his brain in a state where it could be revived then I don't see what the problem is. If that is your only tripping point then I just can't see why THIS amoung all the other things in the game that are at the edge of plausibility give you such an issue.

The some they provided was nonsensical to incorrect.  Jacob has various descriptions for Shepard's state of "death", without explain how that was accomplished.  Miranda doesn't understand how sub-zero temperatures in a vacuum work (so absolute zero is sub zero?)  Part of Shepard's armor was recovered from the crash site by Legion, as well you can pick up their helmet, and even more armor was taken by Liara somehow.  How the heck does a dead body, in an atmosphere of methane and ammonia, in -20 degrees C, without a helmet or (damaged) armor, have a well preserved body, let alone brain?

The brain issue is the biggest deal to me, too.  But there is absolutely 0 mention of how they preserved and rebuilt the brain, considering the miraculous ability to survive atmospheric re-entry and subsequent impact.

Hell just look at medigel. Other than being told WHAT it does we are given almost no expalination of how it works yet i don't see you ****ing about that. It is a textbook example of SiFi handwaverism

Medigel exists.  It's a thing we can point to and is common.  Resurrection is not.  Sure it doesn't make sense when we use it on Legion, but so do a lot of ME2 game play functions.

The detail of how he was revived are irrelevant to the story anyway.

If the story failed to deliver the detail, then it's a poor story.

He had to die and be revived to isolate him from his previous support structure and make it a logical decision for him to work with Cerberus instead.

There are more plausible ways for that to happen without having to go New  Testament. Like, being badly injured...

If he had only been badly injured, why would Liara have handed him over to Cerberus? Wouldn't she have simply returned him to Alliance medical care no matter how badly off he was? It was his being dead that made her desperate act of handing him over to Cerberus have any logic to it.

Lots of reasons can account for this.  Cerberus was the only people there at the time at shipping them back would've been too late.  They had the skills and technology to keep them alive.  Being in a coma/Shepard lost his mind and Liara was needed to re-meld it back together.  It's really not that hard.

The Alliance would try to heal a badly injured Shepard. Only Cerberus was insane enough to try and revive him from death.

Since we're working with our imaginations, we can come up with any much more simpler, plausible solutions to medical miracles or Jesus.  It's really not difficult, and anyone can come up with a plot that still involves the Shadow Broker, Liara, Feron, Shepard and Cerberus, without resorting to resurrection.  In fact, it's more believable.  The only reason they did this, I think, is that wonderful marketing angle where Casey was all "We're going to show you, and tell you, Shepard dying."

[Zulu_DFA]

Notker_Biloba wrote...

I'll admit that I was initially making up numbers so that my theory would work, not realizing that there were published stats on planets in the ME universe. It's true that lower atmospheric pressure combined with lower molecular mass of air molecules (ammonia and methane, i.e. about half the mass of Earth's air, which is mostly oxygen and nitrogen) amounts to lower air density, though the lower surface temperature brings it up slightly, but still about half of Earth's air density. But the surface gravity is about a sixth less than Earth's, so terminal velocity is about 1.3 times that of Earth, since it's proportional to the square root of (gravity)/(air density). So we're talking 158 mph or so, assuming she's falling with the maximum surface area facing the planet's surface. Apparently she landed in a very, very thick snowdrift.

158 mph is roughly 70 meters per second. The snow would compress instanteneosly and serve as no cushion at all. (Snow deeper than 2-3 meters is usually already compressed - by its own weight - to almost solid ice density.)

There is a Davy Crockett story of a Soviet airman Ivan Chisov, that is at least remotely believable - he is said to hit a fresh snow -clad shoulder of a big ravine and thus to undergo somewhat gradual deceleration before reaching the bottom of it. Still he suffered multiple fractures and internal injuries, and was saved only because he was quickly delivered to a hospital. Also, I believe that although he had failed to engage his main chute, the small service chute supposed to pull the main chute out of its sack had been deployed (So, although still miraculous / "hand of God" deliverance, it's not that clear cut compared to alleged Shepard's fall).

There are some more examples of people surviving almost instanteneous multi-G decelerations - in the IndyCar series, but they all received treatment immediately upon crash (without which they would have died in a matter of minutes).

But, considering that the Shepard's helmet is found on the same site with all the Normandy's debris, and (attention now!) seemingly intact Mako - a vehicle designed for orbital drop personnel deployment, here is my "HOW SHEPARD SURVIVED THE CRASH" theory.

[smudboy]

Alocormin wrote...

Shepard was indeed pushed away by an explosion, but Shepard wasn't at the center of the explosion. Cars run on lots of contained explosions and they don't go anywhere near as fast as an explosion.

So being propelled in space by an explosion is subverted by...a combustion engine?  What?

Also, he was wearing armor.  The jet that was being tested flying at 500 mph was not only hitting a harder surface than Shepard would, but was made of lighter stuff, most likely aluminum.  The armor is designed to withstand mass effect driven projectiles to some extent.  

The rates of explosion well exceed 1000 mph.  In space, there's no drag to slow you down.  The surface of Alchera is made of carbon and ice.  Which is irrelevant, because virtually any material or surface one collides with is going to be like hitting a brick wall anyway.

I don't know that this makes a difference, but I'll try and think of how shepard's body might have survived.

Well we shouldn't have to.

If seat belts protect a person going seventy, eighty miles an hour with opposing traffic approximately the same, probably with broken bones or fractures but alive, Shepards body might have survived.  Not to mention all the race cars that get crashed, which defintely kill many people, but the cars don't vaporize.  That brings us to maybe 300 or 400 mph?  I'm not sure.  

Try closer to mach 2.5 (1650 mph.)

So lets so the atmosphere slowed him to 450.  Shepard would definitely die, be crushed, but with armor and other circumstances - such as snow or ice - might his body survive?

No, the atmosphere would've slowed him to 0, because Shepard would've burned up in it.  But since there's evidence that their pieces of armor survived, we have to magically dismiss this away, despite it being an atmosphere of combustible and extremely corrosive gases.

Then there's the magical chance his body wasn't pulverized on impact.  Which means the -20 C temperature would've crystalized nearly every cell in their non-protective body, including his head and brain.

I like the explanation someone wrote up of rebuilding Shepard's neural pathways.  I thought it was something I might have missed in the game briefly.

Was it Drew?  I'm quite sure I don't recall a passage in the narrative where it tells us about Shepard's neurology.

[Iakus]

Radgen1 wrote...

For one thing biotics are common and so an explaination for how it works in more detail is warrented. The revival of Shepard on the other hand was obviously more of a one shot effort that required far more in resources and effort than really could be justified for any one man espicially since they weren't sure they could do it. It is not something they are going to repeat for the masses.

There are explanations.  In the dialogue and the codex.  Not very detailed, but enough to tell you how it's supposed to work and what its limitations are.

Shepard's revival, given the player's information of known advances of human (or alien) technology in theMass Effect universe, should have been impossible.  GIven that such a feat has taken place, a moment or two of exposition would not be unwarranted.

Despite that they did offer SOME explaination if you paid attention. They spent two years repairing his body useing both biological and cybernetic techniques to the point it could again function. As long as you can accept that they could keep his brain in a state where it could be revived then I don't see what the problem is. If that is your only tripping point then I just can't see why THIS amoung all the other things in the game that are at the edge of plausibility give you such an issue.

GIven the massive overkill Shepard suffered with the destruction of the Normandy, I find it a stretch that standard biology and cybernetics could completely restore Shep   .

The brain and memories is still the single biggest sticking pont.  This is the part that needs the most explanation.  And the silence in the game concerning this is deafening.

Added to these two is the lack of interest or even curiosity at how such a feat is possible.  Including Shepard, the recipient of this Cure for Death.I mean, at the very least, Chakwas and Mordin should be looking for excuses to examine Shep.  I for one wouldn't have minded a running gag of people asking Shep "Did you see a light?"

And this i ns't the only problem I have with the game.  It's just the first thing that show up It's also one which has a thread specifically devoted to it.  Start a thread about lack of squad dialogue, Collector issues, retcons, and I'll be there too

Hell just look at medigel. Other than being told WHAT it does we are given almost no expalination of how it works yet i don't see you ****ing about that. It is a textbook example of SiFi handwaverism

Medigel is a game mechanic, not a plot device.  If Shepard was revived by a two year marination in medigel, yes I would be more curious how it worked.

The detail of how he was revived are irrelevant to the story anyway. He had to die and be revived to isolate him from his previous support structure and make it a logical decision for him to work with Cerberus instead. If he had only been badly injured, why would Liara have handed him over to Cerberus? Wouldn't she have simply returned him to Alliance medical care no matter how badly off he was? It was his being dead that made her desperate act of handing him over to Cerberus have any logic to it.

The Alliance would try to heal a badly injured Shepard. Only Cerberus was insane enough to try and revive him from death.

IF you are going to introduce something as game-changing (haha) as death, you need to be willing to run with it.I question teh need for Shepard to die.  There were other ways he/she could have been seperated from the Alliance that were easier to swallow. 

[Notker_Biloba]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
158 mph is roughly 70 meters per second. The snow would compress instanteneosly and serve as no cushion at all. (Snow deeper than 2-3 meters is usually already compressed - by its own weight - to almost solid ice density.)

There is a Davy Crockett story of a Soviet airman Ivan Chisov, that is at least remotely believable - he is said to hit a fresh snow -clad shoulder of a big ravine and thus to undergo somewhat gradual deceleration before reaching the bottom of it...

You're talking about a dude surviving a fall.  Shepard does not survive.  The only thing necessary to prove are (1) she does not burn up in re-entry, and (2) she does not break into a million pieces on impact.  As long as the body is somewhat intact (could be all bones broken), should be possible to recover using 22nd century technology.  As for ice crystals, according to wikipedia, which is never wrong, "It is a common mistaken belief that cells will lyse (burst) due to the formation of ice crystals within the cell, but this only occurs if the freezing rate exceeds the osmotic loss of water to the extracellular space.  However, damage from freezing can still be serious ..."  I'm guessing they figured out how to deal with the "serious" freezing issues in the 22nd century.  So she gets charred a bit on re-entry, freezes a bit during descent, lands on a snowdrift, and freezes some more.  Everything else is future technology.

Modifié par Notker_Biloba, 07 octobre 2010 - 03:10 .

[ladydesire]

Even if all they were able to recover was the skeleton, wouldn't basic biology , in the form of DNA recovery from the existing portion of Shepard, be enough to recreate the body, including the physical brain? If that is possible (and doable today, by the way), all that needs done now is to find enough of Shepard's memories to place in the repaired body. Even that is possible, though much more difficult to find. Did he/she have a greybox, or is there somewhere else Shepard's memories might be stored?

[Saibh]

ladydesire wrote...

Even if all they were able to recover was the skeleton, wouldn't basic biology , in the form of DNA recovery from the existing portion of Shepard, be enough to recreate the body, including the physical brain? If that is possible (and doable today, by the way), all that needs done now is to find enough of Shepard's memories to place in the repaired body. Even that is possible, though much more difficult to find. Did he/she have a greybox, or is there somewhere else Shepard's memories might be stored?

Eezo. And Assassin's Creed-style genetic memory.

Seriously, I don't need a ridiculous explanation for why Shepard comes back. There's plenty in the ME universe that isn't possible, but we brush it aside because they make it sound all technical and use unobtainium to hand wave it.

[Zulu_DFA]

Notker_Biloba wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...
158 mph is roughly 70 meters per second. The snow would compress instanteneosly and serve as no cushion at all. (Snow deeper than 2-3 meters is usually already compressed - by its own weight - to almost solid ice density.)

There is a Davy Crockett story of a Soviet airman Ivan Chisov, that is at least remotely believable - he is said to hit a fresh snow -clad shoulder of a big ravine and thus to undergo somewhat gradual deceleration before reaching the bottom of it...

You're talking about a dude surviving a fall.  Shepard does not survive.

Shepard does survive.

He was only "mostly dead" = not dead enough.

Dead = no Shepard, zero Shepard. Impossible to rebuild "exactly as you were". Personality is information. Information needs a hardware to persist. This hardware is brain.

Notker_Biloba wrote...
The only thing necessary to prove are (1) she does not burn up in re-entry,

Dusty Everman, BioWare, said so.

Notker_Biloba wrote...
and (2) she does not break into a million pieces on impact.

And (3) Shepard's brain was not damaged at all. (Well, may be only a little bit, to explain the thermal ammo and boobs in space delusions)

Notker_Biloba wrote...
  As long as the body is somewhat intact (could be all bones broken), should be possible to recover using 22nd century technology.

 
It should be possible to clone a whole Shepard anew from a single DNA molecule. But it would be only a body. The "soul" would be a tabula rasa.

Notker_Biloba wrote...
As for ice crystals, according to wikipedia, which is never wrong, "It is a common mistaken belief that cells will lyse (burst) due to the formation of ice crystals within the cell, but this only occurs if the freezing rate exceeds the osmotic loss of water to the extracellular space.  However, damage from freezing can still be serious ..."

There are many organisms that can survive freezing. Trees, obviously, and even some animals (like worms), have cells that don't lyse. But human brain cells will lyse, sadly. Even before that the synaptic connections between them will be severed and all that is "personality" will be lost (destryed, desintegrated).

Notker_Biloba wrote...
I'm guessing they figured out how to deal with the "serious" freezing issues in the 22nd century. 

Sure. Replace the darn necrotic tissue with cloned and synthetic tissue. Wouldn't work with the "personality tissue" though.

Notker_Biloba wrote...
So she gets charred a bit on re-entry, freezes a bit during descent, lands on a snowdrift, and freezes some more.  Everything else is future technology.

A wisard did it?

No, it was the trusty Mako.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 07 octobre 2010 - 04:18 .

[Moiaussi]

There is no greybox for shepard, or if there is one, it is never mentioned anywhere. One would think that shepard having perfect recall due to an implant in his brain would have been something worthy of mention in ME1.... of course the tech didn't really exist until invented for the DLC by a writer who presumably thought it would be 'really cool' without thinking through the implications (just like the writer(s) who thought killing shep off at the start of ME2 would be 'really cool.'

[Moiaussi]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Dusty Everman, BioWare, said so.

And also said that the Normandy somehow magically decelerated to zero velocity despite clear indications in game that Joker was trying to accelerate the ship away from the Collector cruiser, not to mention engaging in 'evasive maneuvers.' Because we all know that when you turn the engines off in space, you suddenly stop, right?

He also said he didn't know the physics well enough to make the actual calculations, which translates into 'probably had no clue what he was talking about and was just talking out of his hat'

When we are questioning the writing, a writer giving an explaination that is as bad or worse does not validate the original situation.

No, it was the trusty Mako.

Ah, the mako. That would make some sense... if Shepard had completely survived. THe mako had a lot more air and likely a lot more food and water than any of the life pods and was designed to be able to land on its own power. If Shepard had been able to get into the Mako (which is essentially intact at the crash site, but for some reason not recovered), he should have been just as alive as the rest of the crew.

[Saibh]

Moiaussi wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Dusty Everman, BioWare, said so.

And also said that the Normandy somehow magically decelerated to zero velocity despite clear indications in game that Joker was trying to accelerate the ship away from the Collector cruiser, not to mention engaging in 'evasive maneuvers.' Because we all know that when you turn the engines off in space, you suddenly stop, right?

He also said he didn't know the physics well enough to make the actual calculations, which translates into 'probably had no clue what he was talking about and was just talking out of his hat'

When we are questioning the writing, a writer giving an explaination that is as bad or worse does not validate the original situation.

No, it was the trusty Mako.

Ah, the mako. That would make some sense... if Shepard had completely survived. THe mako had a lot more air and likely a lot more food and water than any of the life pods and was designed to be able to land on its own power. If Shepard had been able to get into the Mako (which is essentially intact at the crash site, but for some reason not recovered), he should have been just as alive as the rest of the crew.

Communications were broken, there was no food stored within, and it was damaged enough so that air was leaking. There. Just because it looks intact doesn't mean that it still works. Shepard may also have suffocated to death shortly after impact. I really couldn't tell you what the helmet was doing all by itself, but, I dunno, maybe it was a spare.

It's funny, between Liara, Legion, and you, you could reconstruct your old armor. Everyone wants that trophy.

[Zulu_DFA]

Moiaussi wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Dusty Everman, BioWare, said so.

And also said that the Normandy somehow magically decelerated to zero velocity despite clear indications in game that Joker was trying to accelerate the ship away from the Collector cruiser, not to mention engaging in 'evasive maneuvers.' Because we all know that when you turn the engines off in space, you suddenly stop, right?

Right, if you reverse the thrust vector against that you've had. Which Joker was exactly doing to synchoronise the Normandy's motion with the rotation of Alchera to possibly mask the ship against the planet in the background.

Moiaussi wrote...
He also said he didn't know the physics well enough to make the actual calculations, which translates into 'probably had no clue what he was talking about and was just talking out of his hat'

Do you know the physics well enough to testify that he was talking nonsense?

Moiaussi wrote...
When we are questioning the writing, a writer giving an explaination that is as bad or worse does not validate the original situation.

Someone's failure to understand the explanation does not make it invalid.

Moiaussi wrote...

No, it was the trusty Mako.

Ah, the mako. That would make some sense... if Shepard had completely survived. THe mako had a lot more air and likely a lot more food and water than any of the life pods and was designed to be able to land on its own power. If Shepard had been able to get into the Mako (which is essentially intact at the crash site, but for some reason not recovered), he should have been just as alive as the rest of the crew.

Surviving for weeks on an uninhabited planet with South Pole climate and poisonous air may be tricky, even if Shepard and the Mako were totally undamaged, which is not necessary for my theory to work. All the Mako provided was the controlled deceleration and just enough life support for Shepard to "die" only moments before the rescue and thus be salvageable with all the fanciest 22nd century health care.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 07 octobre 2010 - 04:55 .

[Nozybidaj]

Moiaussi wrote...

There is no greybox for shepard, or if there is one, it is never mentioned anywhere. One would think that shepard having perfect recall due to an implant in his brain would have been something worthy of mention in ME1.... of course the tech didn't really exist until invented for the DLC by a writer who presumably thought it would be 'really cool' without thinking through the implications (just like the writer(s) who thought killing shep off at the start of ME2 would be 'really cool.'

Hey so long as it is "dark" and "amped up" who cares about things like continuity and common sense, right?

[Ieldra]

Here's my preferred explanation:



Shepard had something like a greybox, only that it only stored his memory and didn't enable perfect recall. He didn't know he had it, and no one told him. I find it very much easier to suspend my disbelief for this scenario than for a miraculous restoration of the information in Shepard's brain that should've been irrevocably destroyed.



BTW, restoring the rest of his body should not have been as difficult by far. I'd be very surprised if the medical technology in the ME universe couldn't clone body parts. Only the brain presents a problem, or rather, the information in it.

[upsettingshorts]

Just repeat to yourself, "It's just a show game, I should really just relax."

[Moiaussi]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Right, if you reverse the thrust vector against that you've had. Which Joker was exactly doing to synchoronise the Normandy's motion with the rotation of Alchera to possibly mask the ship against the planet in the background.

Wrong. The Normandy was accelerating. It is not stationary to any point on the planet. It likely started geosynchronous, since that is a better situation for scanning and/or landing a shuttle, so it would not have needed to slow down to that. Also there was no reason to assume it was easier or harder to see if moving. Besides, your suggestion makes absolutely no sense in the context of taking evasive maneuvers. You don't stop to dodge.

Do you know the physics well enough to testify that he was talking nonsense?

Yes. Objects in space do not simply stop for no good reason. There was no reason for the Normandy to suddenly cut speed after initially failing to run. If the Normandy really had cut speed initially, the collector vessel would most likely have overshot with the Normandy suddenly out of its firing arc. Not to mention the Normandy (and all ships in ME) are designed primarily for forward thrust, which means that to cut speed like that he should have spun the ship around.

Someone's failure to understand the explanation does not make it invalid.

You do realize that applies to you, too.

Surviving for weeks on an uninhabited planet with South Pole climate and poisonous air may be tricky, even if Shepard and the Mako were totally undamaged, which is not necessary for my theory to work. All the Mako provided was the controlled deceleration and just enough life support for Shepard to "die" only moments before the rescue and thus be salvageable with all the fanciest 22nd century health care.

And that is possible in a much much smaller life pod... how? The whole climate and air bit is meaningless, since we know for a fact from ME missions that the Mako is shielded against both and has self contained life support. Not to mention the comments about Shepard's body basicly just being 'meat' rather than 'perfectly preserved via a soft landing in the Mako'.

Not to mention not even a hint of any such use of the mako in the cut scene. which clearly shows Shepard falling away from the Normandy towards the planet just in his suit. Not to mention no Dev even suggesting the Mako answer (unless you know of one having done so?)