931 réponses à ce sujet

[SandTrout]

The hole is there intentionally to leave the Lazarus methods in the past so that it will not become a meme of the series, like Cloning has for Starwars. If they explain it, it can be repeated. If there is no information on when it can or cannot work, it will never be used again, which those of you complaining about the impossible should be happy with.



As another poster stated, Shepard's death is in the game to provide a hook for new audiences as well as provide a genuine disconnect from the society and people of the previous game. Like it or not, that was in all likelihood its purpose in the narrative. Be happy that the writers have been sensible enough not to go into detail on the process so that we don't just have Lazarus projects popping up everywhere.

[KainrycKarr]

SandTrout wrote...

The hole is there intentionally to leave the Lazarus methods in the past so that it will not become a meme of the series, like Cloning has for Starwars. If they explain it, it can be repeated. If there is no information on when it can or cannot work, it will never be used again, which those of you complaining about the impossible should be happy with.

As another poster stated, Shepard's death is in the game to provide a hook for new audiences as well as provide a genuine disconnect from the society and people of the previous game. Like it or not, that was in all likelihood its purpose in the narrative. Be happy that the writers have been sensible enough not to go into detail on the process so that we don't just have Lazarus projects popping up everywhere.

I don't like it, but I'll take it. But god help me if anyone else comes back to life I'm going to complain so much and so hard, it will shatter planets and make people either ban me or smash their heads into the keyboards out of sheer annoyance.

[SandTrout]

KainrycKarr wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

The hole is there intentionally to leave the Lazarus methods in the past so that it will not become a meme of the series, like Cloning has for Starwars. If they explain it, it can be repeated. If there is no information on when it can or cannot work, it will never be used again, which those of you complaining about the impossible should be happy with.

As another poster stated, Shepard's death is in the game to provide a hook for new audiences as well as provide a genuine disconnect from the society and people of the previous game. Like it or not, that was in all likelihood its purpose in the narrative. Be happy that the writers have been sensible enough not to go into detail on the process so that we don't just have Lazarus projects popping up everywhere.

I don't like it, but I'll take it. But god help me if anyone else comes back to life I'm going to complain so much and so hard, it will shatter planets and make people either ban me or smash their heads into the keyboards out of sheer annoyance.

To be honest, I would probably join you if they have a repeat performance.

[Daewan]

You know, if only resurrection stories didn't keep popping up repeatedly in Human history. Because they are so unbelievable. At least this one was better than having the protagonist chopped into pieces and reassembled so that he could save the world from darkness. Oh wait...

[Inquisitor Recon]

Let me point out a few things:
1. You can't reboot the brain like a PC, at best you could create a "new" Shepard with the same body, but he would probably be incapable of any complex task.

2. It was a stupid decision and it would have made much more sense if they went with a near-dead Shepard recovered by Cerberus or similar scenario.

3. I doubt all of the writers were on the same page. Consider one of Shepard's dialogue options "They don't have an option for almost-dead on government paperwork" or something to that effect.

4. Just overlook it, I also think it is stupid but I won't let it ruin the series for myself.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Double post.

Modifié par ReconTeam, 19 juillet 2010 - 09:33 .

[SandTrout]

for the record, the line was " I was only Mostly Dead. Try finding that on government paperwork".

[CosmicTourist]

Complaining about this and not the other ridiculous things in ME is rather petty. The codex entries that supposedly explain the other technologies of ME don't make any sense either. The game doesn't explain HOW eezo causes things to have zero mass, we just have to take it on faith that it does. The game doesn't explain HOW biotics can project mass fields across rooms, since they're clearly not shooting a tiny element zero core out of their hands, which would be the only way it could possibly work according to the rest of the lore.

The codex entries that many seem to think explain things, don't. They just slap down some jargon, but don't tell you HOW things actually happen. You just have to suspend your disbelief and take it on faith. To not complain about the rest of ME's "science", but complain about the resurrection because it doesn't have some non-explanation codex entry to trick you into thinking it makes sense is silly. 

Mass Effect is a series based on inexplicable and impossible science. It is a game, let it go, and enjoy the ride.

[Inquisitor Recon]

But it's not a matter of just impossibility, it is a matter of "WTF did they do this?"

[CosmicTourist]

ReconTeam wrote...

But it's not a matter of just impossibility, it is a matter of "WTF did they do this?"

The issue IS impossibility, since the complaints are that it's a stupid plot device because it's impossible. So are half the plot devices in ME.

But, I'll humor you. Why kill him and not put him in a coma? Because actually dying and coming back to life is much more hardcore than being in a coma, and makes for a much more dramatic opening, and headlines in the press. Because it underscores the danger of the galaxy, and shows Shepard isn't invincible and could easily be killed. Because it fully seperates you from the past and the first game. Because they could put in a plot twist in ME3 where you find out you really are a clone, or are mostly reaper tech. Because they  felt like it, that's why.

And if it bothers you so much, it's really easy to pretend that Shep was just mostly dead, since Shep says he was in "some kind of coma" to Ash. If I remember, only Jacob fully states you were completely dead, and what does he know, he's a dumb soldier. 

Modifié par CosmicTourist, 19 juillet 2010 - 09:57 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

Hardcore? Zaeed's survival was hardcore. Shepard's not so much. And if they go with such a plot twist in ME3 I'm going to be royally pissed.

[lovgreno]

It is possible because the writers wrote the story in a way that made a, admitedly vague, resurection possible. This is BioWares story, if they want to use this plot device they can and will.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Doesn't change the fact that it was a mighty stupid plot device. That said, as much as I whine about it I won't let it ruin the game.

[CosmicTourist]

ReconTeam wrote...

Doesn't change the fact that it was a mighty stupid plot device. That said, as much as I whine about it I won't let it ruin the game.

It was the easy way out, true, but I never let it bother me, and still love ME to death.

[TonyTitan]

Mesina2 wrote...

Teknor wrote...

Oh god, another person with inability to suspend disbelief.

^
l
This.




Did anyone complained in Star Wars that how is possible that Death Star can destroy planets?


No, so shut up.

Wait.....What????  It can????   I believed ObiWan when he said that it was just a huge disturbance in the force.    You mean an actual flying moon destroyed a planet???  



Someone get Lucas and Speilberg on the phone....NOW!!!!


I need to vent! 




Side note: Teknor said it best!  :happy:

[GMulryan]

Your body is rebuilt every decade or so. You are not the same person you started life as on a cellular level. Blood, internal organs, skeletal system etc.  the whole body regenerated. I don't find it so hard to believe that 8 billion credits and a few hardware improvements brings back Shepard intact memory, experiences among other things using existing genetic memory and some leftover "meat and tubes".

[Raxxman]

ReconTeam wrote...



Doesn't change the fact that it was a mighty stupid plot device. That said, as much as I whine about it I won't let it ruin the game.

Are you an expert in neurobiology? Do you even have a PhD in a related field? You talk about absolute fact, but I seriously doubt it.



IF it is possible that in certain circumstances, the brain can be preserved in such a way as to be able to rebuild with enough time and money, then you have to accept that those circumstances were met. The logic is that Shepard is alive. We've already established that it's possible, all be it highly unlikely that shepards body would survive re-entry relatively intact, with real life examples of people actually surviving falls (note, surviving, not just having a relatively intact body) from extreme altitude while not waring state of the art 200 years of technological advancement body armour. To state such a feat is impossible merely shows ignorance to the observed truth, not insight as you seem to claim.



You say the brain can't be rebuilt, I dispute this because we don't currently know how it works in the first place. A caveman could never rebuild an airplane and make it fly, he'd discredit it as impossible yet I full well know that aircraft exist, I understand the physics behind it, I've seen them fly.



So recreating a brain with complete memory might well be impossible, but it's currently not implausible. By this I mean it might not work, but we currently don't have the scientific know how to completely rule out the situation, and in theory we might well be able to do this task.



Things to note:



At that time people have gained an understanding of how memory works. Grey box is an example, and a far more advanced one is the prothean beacon.



Currently science utilize freezed-dried extra cellular matrix to produce dermal replacement, Advancement over the last 10 years has really revolutionized the field, esophagus has been replaced on a dying patient using the decellurised matrix of a pig seeded with human cells. 20 years ago that would of been deemed impossible, 200 years from now it'll probably be deemed stupidly basic.



Shepard underwent gene therapy (as do all Alliance military personal in the ME) so his body is more resistant than the conventional human analogue.

[expanding panic]

You just proved your scientific ignorance. Of course as long as there are people like you out there companies like Bioware won't be forced to improve their crap scenarios. Seriously if Hollywood crap is enough for you then you don't deserve better. Actually I am wasting my time discussing this with you. You can't understand me. But I won't waste my breath. Feel free to rant in the air.

[/quote]

Dude it's an amazing game. And thats all it is a game so thats how they did so who cares? And besides it's in the future whos to say what technology will be like then.

Modifié par expanding panic, 19 juillet 2010 - 11:39 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

You talking to the guy above you or the OP?

[Kroesis-]

I believe the top paragraph is a quote

[Onyx Jaguar]

Whats the point of Science Fiction if it isn't going to speculate on the possibilities of the future?

[Inquisitor Recon]

Raxxman:
Your forgetting that I'm an expert in whatever I say I am, and my word is law. The problem isn't the matter of rebuilding a brain that can work. I imagine we can do that someday. The problem is all of the information on the brain. Everything I have read about that subject leads me to believe that once all of that information is lost, it's gone for good. Perhaps you could someday "program" a brain with new memories and everything else you need (although I don't know why you would want to), but it wouldn't be the same person.

I don't know any brain surgeons or experts on the subject matter, and if I meet one maybe I'll ask if you could salvage whatever used to be on a brain. Yet this is the internet, and your entitled to my wonderrful opinion regardless.

I have no problem with element zero and all of that stuff, but short of an act of divine intervention I don't believe you can bring back the real deal from the dead. I hardly think that is a crazy opinion.

Modifié par ReconTeam, 20 juillet 2010 - 12:52 .

[cachx]

I don't have a problem with the whole death and resurrection thing.

What bothers me is,  why are they killing him just to bring him back next scene? It could have had much more impact if done at some other point during the story.

[KainrycKarr]

CosmicTourist wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...

But it's not a matter of just impossibility, it is a matter of "WTF did they do this?"

The issue IS impossibility, since the complaints are that it's a stupid plot device because it's impossible. So are half the plot devices in ME.

But, I'll humor you. Why kill him and not put him in a coma? Because actually dying and coming back to life is much more hardcore than being in a coma, and makes for a much more dramatic opening, and headlines in the press. Because it underscores the danger of the galaxy, and shows Shepard isn't invincible and could easily be killed. Because it fully seperates you from the past and the first game. Because they could put in a plot twist in ME3 where you find out you really are a clone, or are mostly reaper tech. Because they  felt like it, that's why.

And if it bothers you so much, it's really easy to pretend that Shep was just mostly dead, since Shep says he was in "some kind of coma" to Ash. If I remember, only Jacob fully states you were completely dead, and what does he know, he's a dumb soldier. 

I, personally, are complaining about it because there isn't so much as a dialogue question for "so how did you guys manage it, anyway?"

The entire thing is completely skimmed over without a codex entry, a dialogue entry, anything. Nadda, zip, zero.