931 réponses à ce sujet

[KainrycKarr]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Whats the point of Science Fiction if it isn't going to speculate on the possibilities of the future?

People are missing the point...at least mine anyway. It isn't necessarily that they did it, but that they did it and didn't even bother to go into detail, however bullcrapped it is, about how it was made possible in this universe.

[Jackal904]

Dusty Everman wrote...

smudboy wrote...

http://social.biowar...93197/7#2709226

However Shepard is not starting at free fall, and we have to assume there are no other objects or air resistance stopping or slowing their descent.  Shepard's moving at the "Velocity Of Detonation", or whatever explosion pushed them into space.  Explosive forces range from 1800-10300m/s, but we'll just go with 5000m/s.  That's roughly 11,000 miles/h, in space.

Shepard instantly went from 0 mph to 11000 mph from the destruction of the cockpit?  The cockpit more breaks apart than explodes, and you see Shepard drift from it at maybe 20mph tops.  I'm no physicist, but this argument seems flawed to me.

Ignore smudboy. He's a typical pseudo-intellectual who pulls **** out of his ass to try and criticize ME2 at any opportunity. It's like ME2 killed his parents or something.

[KainrycKarr]

Jackal904 wrote...

Dusty Everman wrote...

smudboy wrote...

http://social.biowar...93197/7#2709226

However Shepard is not starting at free fall, and we have to assume there are no other objects or air resistance stopping or slowing their descent.  Shepard's moving at the "Velocity Of Detonation", or whatever explosion pushed them into space.  Explosive forces range from 1800-10300m/s, but we'll just go with 5000m/s.  That's roughly 11,000 miles/h, in space.

Shepard instantly went from 0 mph to 11000 mph from the destruction of the cockpit?  The cockpit more breaks apart than explodes, and you see Shepard drift from it at maybe 20mph tops.  I'm no physicist, but this argument seems flawed to me.

Ignore smudboy. He's a typical pseudo-intellectual who pulls **** out of his ass to try and criticize ME2 at any opportunity. It's like ME2 killed his parents or something.

You know just because some of us don't like how they did or wrote a few things (a lot in some cases) doesn't mean we hate the game.

ME2 is personally one of my favorite games of all time. It isn't so much that it was bad and I'm pointing out it was bad, so much as it was great and I'm actually taking the time to bother debating and thinking about how it could have been even better.

90% of the games I play make so little sense that I just don't care enough about it to A) play it again or actually bother to think up what I would have changed to make it better.

As wierd as it sounds, I criticize ME2 because I love it, and hope my comments will be remembered and make the game even better in my eyes come time for ME3. Maybe not MY comments per say, but that the general influence of fans will help make the story better.

Modifié par KainrycKarr, 20 juillet 2010 - 01:09 .

[wulf3n]

KainrycKarr wrote...
You know just because some of us don't like how they did or wrote a few things (a lot in some cases) doesn't mean we hate the game.

ME2 is personally one of my favorite games of all time. It isn't so much that it was bad and I'm pointing out it was bad, so much as it was great and I'm actually taking the time to bother debating and thinking about how it could have been even better.

90% of the games I play make so little sense that I just don't care enough about it to A) play it again or actually bother to think up what I would have changed to make it better.

As wierd as it sounds, I criticize ME2 because I love it, and hope my comments will be remembered and make the game even better in my eyes come time for ME3. Maybe not MY comments per say, but that the general influence of fans will help make the story better.

Exactly, i never understand why people think a bit of negative criticism = complete and utter hate! If we really hated the game, we wouldn't be here!

[Frank the Running Bugzepel]

I've being to many forums in my life and I have to say that this is some of the silliest forums in the history of existence. It's a game! Ok? Get over it. Shepard dies and he was brought back to life, it is a plot device to propel the story. Do we really need the information on how he wasn't turned to a meat pancake? No, we don't. If we did, they there will be a whole another thread which states that all of that is bs. It is the same as do we need info on how the Empire made a weapon to destroy planets? or can USS Enterprise really enter deep space with Impulse engines & Warp drive? Sometimes people have to accept facts as they see it and just deal with it.
Also don't assume the current theories and laws that we have to today are the "absolute truth" as for all we know that in the next 200 years there could be new theories and laws that explain it all.

Modifié par Lady light doorbell, 20 juillet 2010 - 01:24 .

[wulf3n]

Lady light doorbell wrote...
... it is a plot device to propel the story....

You mean a bad plot device that doesn't even propel the story. 

Modifié par wulf3n, 20 juillet 2010 - 01:29 .

[Frank the Running Bugzepel]

Even if it bad, does it matter? Not really, so lets focus our attention to ME3 not the whole "how did Shepard didn't turn into a pancake" thing.

[Jackal904]

wulf3n wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...
You know just because some of us don't like how they did or wrote a few things (a lot in some cases) doesn't mean we hate the game.

ME2 is personally one of my favorite games of all time. It isn't so much that it was bad and I'm pointing out it was bad, so much as it was great and I'm actually taking the time to bother debating and thinking about how it could have been even better.

90% of the games I play make so little sense that I just don't care enough about it to A) play it again or actually bother to think up what I would have changed to make it better.

As wierd as it sounds, I criticize ME2 because I love it, and hope my comments will be remembered and make the game even better in my eyes come time for ME3. Maybe not MY comments per say, but that the general influence of fans will help make the story better.

Exactly, i never understand why people think a bit of negative criticism = complete and utter hate! If we really hated the game, we wouldn't be here!

I'm fine with constructive criticism. But what smudboy does is simply spew nonsense in an attempt to bash ME2.

[Raxxman]

ReconTeam wrote...

Raxxman:
Your forgetting that I'm an expert in whatever I say I am, and my word is law. The problem isn't the matter of rebuilding a brain that can work. I imagine we can do that someday. The problem is all of the information on the brain. Everything I have read about that subject leads me to believe that once all of that information is lost, it's gone for good. Perhaps you could someday "program" a brain with new memories and everything else you need (although I don't know why you would want to), but it wouldn't be the same person.

I don't know any brain surgeons or experts on the subject matter, and if I meet one maybe I'll ask if you could salvage whatever used to be on a brain. Yet this is the internet, and your entitled to my wonderrful opinion regardless.

I have no problem with element zero and all of that stuff, but short of an act of divine intervention I don't believe you can bring back the real deal from the dead. I hardly think that is a crazy opinion.

You basically have to accept that the brain was sufficently preserved as to allow reconstruction with suffcient memories. Alternatively you could work in that the prothean beacon recorded an image of Shepards mind which they used as a basis during reconstruction (yeah that one was pulled out of nowhere... Ahem)

[wulf3n]

Jackal904 wrote...
I'm fine with constructive criticism. But what smudboy does is simply spew nonsense in an attempt to bash ME2.

Perhaps, though i tend to agree with a lot of what he says...not all of it, but most.

[EatChildren]

Man, I totally agree with the OP. Its a farce that BioWare would allow something so unrealistic and unexplained to enter the deep and realistic universe of Mass Effect.

Its not like there's electronic devices attached to people's arms that magically heal bullet wounds and injuries. Its not like people have essentially magical powers that allow them to defy the laws of physics. And its not like the entire universe and all of its futuristic technology hinges on a deus ex machina plot device that inexplixitly defies the laws of science to fit any situation or scenario.

Oh...wait......

[Alexein]

We should also retcon Dragon Age, cause we all know the Fade being an extra-dimension on top of our own doesn't work scientifically.



We should also retcon damage and health in ALL games everywhere. There is no such thing as "health points". You don't have some meter that 1/232 is life and 0/232 is death.



Has anyone found their health bar? it's supposed to be floating above my head but i don't see it.

[wulf3n]

Alexein wrote...
Has anyone found their health bar? it's supposed to be floating above my head but i don't see it.

It's there, it's just covered by a few layers of muscle and flesh, and if you lose it all it's Game Over. Just remember there are other ways to fail the game of life without your health bar depleting. 

[KainrycKarr]

Lady light doorbell wrote...

I've being to many forums in my life and I have to say that this is some of the silliest forums in the history of existence. It's a game! Ok? Get over it. Shepard dies and he was brought back to life, it is a plot device to propel the story. Do we really need the information on how he wasn't turned to a meat pancake? No, we don't. If we did, they there will be a whole another thread which states that all of that is bs. It is the same as do we need info on how the Empire made a weapon to destroy planets? or can USS Enterprise really enter deep space with Impulse engines & Warp drive? Sometimes people have to accept facts as they see it and just deal with it.
Also don't assume the current theories and laws that we have to today are the "absolute truth" as for all we know that in the next 200 years there could be new theories and laws that explain it all.

Okay, genius, learn to read, there are FICTITIOUS EXPLANATIONS for the things you state!

There are NONE for this!

All I am asking for is an in-game why it works!

Some of us more intelligent folk like a little why behind the whats in our stories. I personally like a little more depth to a story than "Oh you can bring people back to life in this world? oh ok kewlio"

I don't mean to drop to the level of name-calling but how bottom-level intelligence do you need to be to just utterly not care about why something is happening?

If we're dropping the level of storytelling that low than damn near every sci-fi show/book/concept is fantastic.

Modifié par KainrycKarr, 20 juillet 2010 - 02:21 .

[Il Divo]

KainrycKarr wrote...

No, you can't say the same thing about biotics and relays precisely BECAUSE of those codex entries. They have in-game explanations, theories, regardless of actual practicality or science.

There is NONE for bringing shep to life. none. Not even fake science. Noone even mentions it, or seems to care that a terrorist organization basically unlocked the key to immortality. It happens, and we're expected to accept it, as well as the rest of the known galaxy, and nobody says ANYTHING.

I'm not denying that they should have built more anticipation around Shepard's death, but how does that make Mass Effect's codex acceptable? Every codex entry for scientific impossibilities pretty much can be summed up with "Element Zero". This in my opinion does not make for adequate explanation; would it have been acceptable for you if Bioware said element zero made it possible to resurrect Shepard? It would be an explanation/theory regardless of practical science. I however would look at this as dumber than Bioware choosing to not explain the mechanics at all.

Modifié par Il Divo, 20 juillet 2010 - 02:50 .

[II Sl4sh3r II]

KainrycKarr wrote...

Lady light doorbell wrote...

I've being to many forums in my life and I have to say that this is some of the silliest forums in the history of existence. It's a game! Ok? Get over it. Shepard dies and he was brought back to life, it is a plot device to propel the story. Do we really need the information on how he wasn't turned to a meat pancake? No, we don't. If we did, they there will be a whole another thread which states that all of that is bs. It is the same as do we need info on how the Empire made a weapon to destroy planets? or can USS Enterprise really enter deep space with Impulse engines & Warp drive? Sometimes people have to accept facts as they see it and just deal with it.
Also don't assume the current theories and laws that we have to today are the "absolute truth" as for all we know that in the next 200 years there could be new theories and laws that explain it all.

Okay, genius, learn to read, there are FICTITIOUS EXPLANATIONS for the things you state!

There are NONE for this!

All I am asking for is an in-game why it works!

Some of us more intelligent folk like a little why behind the whats in our stories. I personally like a little more depth to a story than "Oh you can bring people back to life in this world? oh ok kewlio"

I don't mean to drop to the level of name-calling but how bottom-level intelligence do you need to be to just utterly not care about why something is happening?

If we're dropping the level of storytelling that low than damn near every sci-fi show/book/concept is fantastic.

There's an explanation for this...

Futuristic technology.

I don't think people throught heart transplants were possible 200 hundred years ago. Do you?

[EatChildren]

KainrycKarr wrote...

Some of us more intelligent folk like a little why behind the whats in our stories. I personally like a little more depth to a story than "Oh you can bring people back to life in this world? oh ok kewlio"

How does Medi-gel work?

I'm totally serious. I know what they say it does, but how does it work? How does a gel manage to repair severe lacerations, impacts, and fragments imbedded in the human body?

How does it actually work, and when exactly is this gel applied? In Mass Effect all we see is the Omni-Tool activating the healing. Then, magically, all my wounds are healed. Five accellerated shards lodged in my body? No worries! Medi-gel will somehow extract the fragments, then heal the wound completely, and only in a matter of seconds!

You're nit picking about an extremely trivial issue. If you really must have an answer you can find it by piecing together the abundance of unrealistic explinations already used in the series; tissue cloning, medi-gel, cybonetics, and advanced medical technology.

[wulf3n]

EatChildren wrote...
How does Medi-gel work?

I'm totally serious. I know what they say it does, but how does it work? How does a gel manage to repair severe lacerations, impacts, and fragments imbedded in the human body?

How does it actually work, and when exactly is this gel applied? In Mass Effect all we see is the Omni-Tool activating the healing. Then, magically, all my wounds are healed. Five accellerated shards lodged in my body? No worries! Medi-gel will somehow extract the fragments, then heal the wound completely, and only in a matter of seconds!

You're nit picking about an extremely trivial issue. If you really must have an answer you can find it by piecing together the abundance of unrealistic explinations already used in the series; tissue cloning, medi-gel, cybonetics, and advanced medical technology.

Medi-Gel:
masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Medi-gel

[EatChildren]

wulf3n wrote...

Medi-Gel:
masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Medi-gel

Already read it and all it does is explain what it does, not how it works. Its a magical cure-all gel that can repair all kinds of wounds with little issue.

Its obviously not an issue, but thats kind of the point. The franchise has already established wonderous gel that manages to instantly fix nearly all wounds, genetic modifications, cloning, and cybonetics. Complaining that Shepard being put back together is lacking an explination is grasping at straws.

If its seriously an issue for the OP he might as well ditch the franchise. He should have ditched it in the first game.

[KainrycKarr]

Multiple replies thrown my way, so I'll say this.



There is a HUGE psychological and physical difference between healing a bullet wound, and repairing or replacing damaged or potentially destroyed BRAIN tissue.



Flesh wound =/= dead brain.



They are in two completely different ballparks of medical science.



Is it possible to bring a dead person back to life? Theoretically, yes. It is. Those devices used by paramedics to bring a stopped heart back? That is essentially what they're doing. Cloning and repairing a dead body is much simple because all you have to do is just the organs pumping again. Not that hard to do. All it takes to make a heart start beating again is an electrical pulse. Expand on that, and you have the tech to bring a body to life.



But to utterly replace without alteration and without error, the entire fragile psychological existence of sapient being is a whole nother world, and not something to underestimate.



It deserves an explanation, however bullcrapped it is, far more than something as simple as medi-gel.



The only even remotely believable explanation I've seen, came from someone mentioning how a VI works, and the fact that Shepard has an existing VI. That indicates the data, the personality, the soul if you will, of Shepard, is essentially backed up somewhere. With that you could repair the physical body, and use that backed-up neuro-data to re-create Shepard. But even then he isn't just going to remember everything up to his death, unless his mind was backed up and saved somehow RIGHT before his death.

[KainrycKarr]

EatChildren wrote...

wulf3n wrote...

Medi-Gel:
masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Medi-gel

Already read it and all it does is explain what it does, not how it works. Its a magical cure-all gel that can repair all kinds of wounds with little issue.

Its obviously not an issue, but thats kind of the point. The franchise has already established wonderous gel that manages to instantly fix nearly all wounds, genetic modifications, cloning, and cybonetics. Complaining that Shepard being put back together is lacking an explination is grasping at straws.

If its seriously an issue for the OP he might as well ditch the franchise. He should have ditched it in the first game.

Dude, bullet wounds =/= dead brain tissue and destroyed neurological imprints.

[smudboy]

EatChildren wrote...

wulf3n wrote...

Medi-Gel:
masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Medi-gel

Already read it and all it does is explain what it does, not how it works. Its a magical cure-all gel that can repair all kinds of wounds with little issue.

Its obviously not an issue, but thats kind of the point. The franchise has already established wonderous gel that manages to instantly fix nearly all wounds, genetic modifications, cloning, and cybonetics. Complaining that Shepard being put back together is lacking an explination is grasping at straws.

If its seriously an issue for the OP he might as well ditch the franchise. He should have ditched it in the first game.

Excuse me: there is a massive difference to a device called "medi-gel" and resurrecting Shepard.

We understand the concept of a gel, and that it can have a magical-medical use.  After all, futuristic technology is just like magic.

Now please point to the "resurrection-gel".  Or the "resurrection-machine."  Or anything involving resurrection.  You see, medi-gel, omni-gel, eezo -- we can buy this.  It has names.  We can point to it.  There's a codex entry.

Our suspension is completely destroyed when we don't even know how Shepard was brought back, or what state he was in to be brought back from, or how exactly he got to that state.  It is a clear lack of exposition.  This is why we are discussing, and why people have negative opinions: they arouse questions that spark debate.  Plot holes, errors in writing, these raise questions; questions which are either intended to be there, or are simply very poor writing.

The pro-ME2 people come in, call us all morons, and we're like "yeah, we are morons.  We don't understand."  Except we do understand plot devices, and how they work, and don't work, and something called lack of exposition.  If they work for you, great.  Such people can't explain how they work for them, because they just go "the game said Shepard's resurrected, ok?"  You turn your brain off.  That's fine, you can do that.  The rest of us don't turn our brain off.  We start trying to figure it out, coming up with elaborate theories (Zulu comes to mind), and argue the details of how.

For example, if Shepard was resurrected with some kind of medi-gel, that would help.  We saw some kind of blue fluid enter their veins, but we don't know what that was.  As well as some weird glowing clamps.  Good exposition, but definitely not enough for me to buy it, or the 2 year period to explain a 30 second cutscene of robotic surgical devices with next to no context.

[wulf3n]

EatChildren wrote...
Already read it and all it does is explain what it does, not how it works. Its a magical cure-all gel that can repair all kinds of wounds with little issue.

but there's a difference between having some information and none.

With medi-gel they don't go into the technical specifics of how the gel actually works, but they say it heals you by stopping bleeding, stopping pain, with mild regenerative properties.

With FTL they don't go into the technical specifics on how a Mass Effect Field works, but they do explain how one is created, and how that provides FTL travel.

As far as i'm aware they don't really explain what was done to bring shepard back to life, just that they spent a lot of time and a lot of money, correct me if im wrong.

Modifié par wulf3n, 20 juillet 2010 - 03:14 .

[wulf3n]

sorry double post 

Modifié par wulf3n, 20 juillet 2010 - 03:13 .