931 réponses à ce sujet

[Zulu_DFA]

It's been dev confirmed in this thread, that Shepard did hit the planet.

It has also been dev pointed out that Shepard would not burn in the atmosphere as he had no significant orbital velocity of his own.

However, it's hugely implausible that Shepard would survive impact.

Even if by some sort of miracle Shepard did survive impact, he would turn into a popsickle very fast, which means all cells in his body, including the brain cells would shatter and grind each other during the H2O crystallization. Which means there would be nothing to resurrect.

Also Shepard could not hit exactly the same spot on the lanet's surface as the Normandy's wreck, if they were separated in high orbit as the cinematic tends to imply. Yet, somehow he did, which is confirmed by his helmet on the crash site, and Legion's saying that his armor was found on the crash site.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 20 juillet 2010 - 09:07 .

[Terraneaux]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

It has also been dev poited out that Shepard would not burn in the atmosphere as he had no significant orbital velocity of his own.

But how did he lose his orbital velocity?  It would have to be by being slowed down by atmospheric friction - hence burning up.  

[Bogsnot1]

OK, some geeky gravity stuff.

Earth: 9.8m/sec/sec. 200m/sec top atmospheric freefall speed.
Alchera: 0.85 times that of Earth.  That gives it a gravitational constant of 8.33 m/sec/sec.
Having been shunted towards the planet by the jolt the Normandy (whilst in strationary orbit) received from various explosions, Shep proceeds to fall straight into the planet.  Now comes the guesswork.
Shunt force : 20m/sec?
Distance from atmosphere/planet: Given its larger than earth, and you can clearly see its curvature, 60000/90000m would not sound out of order.
Now, we know from USAF testing, that it is likely Shep would have hit, and exceeded, the speed of sound prior to atmospheric entry. Once you hit atmos, you will then be slowed down (eventually) via frictional losses to match the top atmospheric freefall speed. ref: http://en.wikipedia....oseph_Kittinger
So, thats approx 60000m, from a starting rate of 20m/sec and constantly accelerating at 8.33m/sec/sec. By my rough guesstimate (and feel free to do the proper math and correct me), he would have been doing near Mach 2.5 when he hit atmos.

Atmospheric stuff: (from Wiki)
Alchera's crust is composed of carbon and water ice. While low density, its large size allows it to retain a thick atmosphere of methane and ammonia.
Ammonia. Thats industrial grade cleaning solvent that will strip skin from flesh.

Now, you have some REAL facts to argue over, rather than blathering away with uninformed opinions.

Modifié par Bogsnot1, 20 juillet 2010 - 09:15 .

[ME-ParaShep]

Random Cerberus Operative No.42 wrote...

All the best scientists, an infinate budget, the best medical technology available in 2185, they found a way to fix Shepard in the end.

Yah, I mean 4 BILLION Creds.. TIM is like the future Bill Gates except more conniving..

[Spornicus]

It's the future. Anything's possible!

[Zulu_DFA]

Shandepared wrote...

It would have been more believable (even if still impossible) if Shepard had remained aboard the Normandy when it crashed.

Hence, my Mako theory.

Terraneaux wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

It has also been dev pointed out that Shepard would not burn in the atmosphere as he had no significant orbital velocity of his own.

But how did he lose his orbital velocity?  It would have to be by being slowed down by atmospheric friction - hence burning up.  

Joker was manuevering the Normandy up to the end, when the Collector ship came about for the final strike. He probably tried (the moron he is) to fool the attacker's tracking systems and mask the Normandy by synchronizing her movement with the planet's rotation. He brought the Normandy to the speed of the geostationary sub-orbit, so to say, and turned off the engines, which at such a low altitude resulted in rather swift orbital decay. So the Normandy just plunged out of the sky at 90 degrees to the surface. Which means there was zero atmospheric drag to burn her up on the way down.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 20 juillet 2010 - 10:46 .

[Whatever42]

But how did he lose his orbital velocity? It would have to be by being slowed down by atmospheric friction - hence burning up.

He had no orbital velocity because he wasn't orbiting the planet. Granting Bogsnot's assumptions and math, Shep would have entered the atmosphere at 1 km per second, still significantly slower than the 7 km/s of orbital velocity or the much, much faster velocities of objects orbiting the sun.
But, of course, Zulu's main point still stands. Shepard would have had a 1 in a million chance of survival. Of course, as Terry Pratchett points out, in fantasy/science fiction universes 1 in a million is a certainty!
But assuming he died, could he be re-constructed by super-computers billions of times more powerful than today by extracting the quantum information stored in the remains of his brain? Current theory says no.
Of course, the quantum entanglement communications device on the Normandy always shouldn't work. We've already ruled out the possibility of FTL communication through entanglement.
So obviously, today's quantum theories are wrong!

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 20 juillet 2010 - 03:06 .

[Thompson family]

He was just mostly dead, not really dead.



"Hey you! Whaddaya got to live for?"



"TrruueeLovvve"



Liara forever.

[General Zombie444]

Ksandor wrote...

You can't bring Shepard back from dead -- it is impossible.

If you are brain dead your neurons and neural pathways and protein based memory molecules decompose. Since nobody knows what protein based memories and neural pathways Shepard had in life reconstructing them is impossible (you can't reconstruct memories and the personality).

Besides quantum mechanics says 100% reproduction is impossible. Especially when it comes to a complex system like a thinking brain. Unless there was some sort of hibernation mechanism in Shepard's suit reviving a brain dead person is impossible.

If I were Bioware I would create circumstances where Shepard's brain could be salvaged more or less intact. At least they did not clearly state that Shepard fell to the planet. No "body" can survive that. Simple impact would pulverize the body even if the atmosphere does not contain oxygen so the body would not burn. Maybe Shepard's body was in orbit and his body suit's emergency systems preserved him to some degree. Any specifics about this in Redemption comic?

The solution would be to imply that Shepard's body recovered from orbit and the suit protected him from extreme decomposition -- especially an emergency mechanism which protected his brain. This would not directly conflict with Jacob when he said Shepard was dead as dead can be and Miranda when he summarizes the extensive damage Shepard suffered. If your brain is preserved bringing you back from dead should be possible with future tech.

I wish they just said that Shepard was in comma for 2 years. That was the most plausible solution but Bioware wanted to scandalize audience with this flashy death idea so instead they have chosen this Hollywood no brainer. They should retcon this without conflicting Mass Effect 2.

Its the future.

Enought said, now were is a moderator to pull the plug on this posts life support system?

[MobiusTyr]

go get laid.

[Omicrone]

Ksandor wrote...

You can't bring Shepard back from dead -- it is impossible.

If you are brain dead your neurons and neural pathways and protein based memory molecules decompose. Since nobody knows what protein based memories and neural pathways Shepard had in life reconstructing them is impossible (you can't reconstruct memories and the personality).

Besides quantum mechanics says 100% reproduction is impossible. Especially when it comes to a complex system like a thinking brain. Unless there was some sort of hibernation mechanism in Shepard's suit reviving a brain dead person is impossible.

If I were Bioware I would create circumstances where Shepard's brain could be salvaged more or less intact. At least they did not clearly state that Shepard fell to the planet. No "body" can survive that. Simple impact would pulverize the body even if the atmosphere does not contain oxygen so the body would not burn. Maybe Shepard's body was in orbit and his body suit's emergency systems preserved him to some degree. Any specifics about this in Redemption comic?

The solution would be to imply that Shepard's body recovered from orbit and the suit protected him from extreme decomposition -- especially an emergency mechanism which protected his brain. This would not directly conflict with Jacob when he said Shepard was dead as dead can be and Miranda when he summarizes the extensive damage Shepard suffered. If your brain is preserved bringing you back from dead should be possible with future tech.

I wish they just said that Shepard was in comma for 2 years. That was the most plausible solution but Bioware wanted to scandalize audience with this flashy death idea so instead they have chosen this Hollywood no brainer. They should retcon this without conflicting Mass Effect 2.

Whether it's possible or not - currently it's not. But it's plausible, there are methods. Recently scientists found a bacteria strain that completely regenerates its own DNA after having it broken down beforehand by solar radiation. Broken down DNA = dead cell. If you find a method to repair your DNA, you can restart all the basic processes that make you what you are, both on a cellular level and at organ level. All Lazarus project had to do is genetically engineer a virus containing that bacteria's DNA-repairing mechanism (which consists of a few proteins that trigger upon cell death and "meld" the nucleotides back together) to infect -all- the dead cells in Shepard's body. Obviously finding a virus that infects dead tissue is quite a challenge in itself. Then you'd have to re-create the special circumstances that trigger the proteins that repair the DNA. Quote from Wikipedia : "Deinocuccus radiodurans also has a unique ability to repair
damaged DNA. It isolates the damaged segments in a controlled area and
repairs it. This bacteria can also repair many small fragments from an
entire chromosome." And this is about double-stranded breaks in the DNA, complete severance of DNA strands, not just simple damage.

It's theoretically possible to bring someone back from the dead that way. There are problems associated with that of course, and I can't claim that memories will be kept intact. However, for complete reconstruction of memory they'd have to take a biological imprint of the strength of each synapse between neurones and re-create that using a fresh brain perhaps in order to make sure all the long-term memories are the same. The short term memories will be irreversibly lost anyhow.

[KainrycKarr]

Kinda funny, prior to ME2 the ME forums were filled with intelligent debates like this one over technicalities and what's possible and what's not, and it was great, gave people something to chat over while waitin for the next game.



now it's like 4chan. Super.

[Raizo]

You people are still argueing about this!?!

MobiusTyr wrote...

go get laid.

My friend here is genius.

[smudboy]

KainrycKarr wrote...

Kinda funny, prior to ME2 the ME forums were filled with intelligent debates like this one over technicalities and what's possible and what's not, and it was great, gave people something to chat over while waitin for the next game.

now it's like 4chan. Super.

We even have images when people are so flabbergasted to be able to come up with an appropriate response.  This is usually due to people 1) being narf, 2) misunderstanding English.

[Terraneaux]

Omicrone wrote...

stuff

The memory problem is another big one, but even as far as DNA repair goes, you need a working copy of the DNA to use as a blueprint to repair from, if it's the bacteria I'm thinking of.  Of course, I guarantee the writers weren't thinking of this, evinced by Miranda's comments about temperatures in space, which tells me that whoever was coming up with this doesn't even understand basic thermodynamics.  

[Alexein]

If ya hate ME2 so much.... how about just not play it?



I hate Justin Bieber... so I don't listen to him.



And if you're complaining that you already bought the game... well it's your fault for not checking a spoiler first. You should have taken better steps to protect yourself if you're SO mentally fragile that a bad story would shatter your delicate emotional balance and perspective on reality, forever damaging your sanity and causing you rant endlessly on forums like some... raving...luna...tic...





oh wait a minute.... (looks in mirror).... ah crap....

[Siansonea]

I can't believe this thread is still going. BioWare isn't going to 'retcon' ME2. Just not gonna happen.

[smudboy]

Alexein wrote...

If ya hate ME2 so much.... how about just not play it?

I hate Justin Bieber... so I don't listen to him.

And if you're complaining that you already bought the game... well it's your fault for not checking a spoiler first. You should have taken better steps to protect yourself if you're SO mentally fragile that a bad story would shatter your delicate emotional balance and perspective on reality, forever damaging your sanity and causing you rant endlessly on forums like some... raving...luna...tic...


oh wait a minute.... (looks in mirror).... ah crap....

1. We don't hate ME2.
2. We aren't complaining that we already...bought...the...what?

Just...no.

[Alexein]

smudboy wrote...


1. We don't hate ME2.
2. We aren't complaining that we already...bought...the...what?

Just...no.

I know it's mind blowing.... but it really just a game

[Onyx Jaguar]

I haven't read anything from either side that convinces me either way.

[TheZanSnake]

Why can't people comprehend that ME and ME2 is made for entertainment instead of logical expressions?



If you are going to moan about points of the VIDEO GAME then surely the factor of having alien life must seem 'illogical' due to the fact there is no evidence of alien life (solid evidence then). The writers of the game came up with a way to try and explain one element of the plot as best as they could, and yet all of you just look for flaws and rip it apart.



The matter of the fact is that, even though you bought the game doesn't mean you have to carry one playing it. It isn't like someone is pointing a gun to your head everytime you turn you Xbox or PC on and demanding you to play it. It is YOUR choice.

[Alexein]

TheZanSnake wrote...
.

The matter of the fact is that, even though you bought the game doesn't mean you have to carry one playing it. It isn't like someone is pointing a gun to your head everytime you turn you Xbox or PC on and demanding you to play it. It is YOUR choice.

oh PLEASE, SAVE your excuses, you people make ME sick. I'M trying to keep the crappy science in games from eroding whatever intellect we HELD.   On some level I agree witH- the original pOSTer  that in a sci-fi universe you want something that is at least plausible. This isn't dragon -AGE  where the world is supposed to fake, this is "the future" where things are extrapolated based on whAT we know now. I expect a  GUN to be POINT  AND  shoot just like the present and not some magical wand that i MUST chant to make work....

I'm sorry, i'm being a jack*ss i'll try  to  KEEP civil. Anyway when i'm PLAYING MASS EFFECT i don't want scientific inconsistencies to bother me.

Before anyone gets angry at me please only regard the words i bolded ,capitalized and underlined.

[Omicrone]

Terraneaux wrote...

Omicrone wrote...

stuff

The memory problem is another big one, but even as far as DNA repair goes, you need a working copy of the DNA to use as a blueprint to repair from, if it's the bacteria I'm thinking of.  Of course, I guarantee the writers weren't thinking of this, evinced by Miranda's comments about temperatures in space, which tells me that whoever was coming up with this doesn't even understand basic thermodynamics.  

You only need to modify the proteins that repair the bacteria's own DNA to attach and repair Shepard's DNA under the same conditions. Presumably those proteins are switched on by a number of factors and obviously those factors have to be known and have to be replicated so they start repairing Shepard's cells. In my eyes getting the genes that code for those proteins in a Virus, and getting the Virus to replicate inside dead cells is the bigger problem. Viruses by definition attach themselves to whatever can provide enough materials for them to replicate and multiply. And a dead cell isn't a very good target for that obviously. However, for 2 years they should come up with some sort of solution...

And about the memories, considering Shepard's body was near-frozen while on -w/e plannet he crashed on- getting a map of the synaptic links and the various proteins in his brain shouldn't be a problem. After all in Redemption we learn they discover his body only after a day or two. Good preservation of the body could ensure there is minimal degradation of tissue.

Modifié par Omicrone, 20 juillet 2010 - 07:54 .