95 réponses à ce sujet

[Narreneth]

HolyMoogle wrote...


Quit going caps and calling people asses over a videogame forum.

The fact that they're calling it canon means that those canonical events of DAO could influence future DA games which don't take into account saves from DAO (which is likely) and also the various comics and books related to DA. I'm not reducing the term simply to the act of importaing a save (or not) into DA2.

The only canonical events in DA should be those which don't take place in the timeline of the games, and events within the games which you cannot influence. But since they're saying a particular line through DAO is 'canon', it means that it could skew all future DA stories to that particular canonical line. Certainly, that might not happen, but since they're using that word, it very well could.

I went to all caps once, don't act like it's a repeated offense.  As far as calling you an ass, quit acting like one and I won't call you on it.  Are you somehow under the impression that the choices you make in Origins will not transfer to DA:3?  That's incredibly silly of you to believe that.  If the choices carry over into DA:2 and affect the world (as we already know they will) then when DA:3 takes the file that has the state of the world in it from DA:2 it will have your Origins choices as well.  Tadaaa! Almost like magic, only it's not.  It's going to work the same way in Mass Effect 3 from Mass Effect 2.  Hell, they're even working on a utility to let your saves go cross-console so the variables will be available even if you lose your original saves anyway. 

I understand why you wouldn't want them to push a canon storyline in a way that makes what we chose in our games seem less important.  I'm right there with you.  But when we're talking about all this in the context of having backstory so you can actually play a game after you buy it, then there's no reason to debate it.  

[Narreneth]

Aradace wrote...

SirShreK wrote...

There is a need for a canon for the following reason: Books.

If at a later date the Writers decide to grace us with the novelized version of the games, you will find me standing in the queue outside Barnes and Noble or likewise... waiting for the canon storyline....

If you realize the importance of above statement you will KNOW that Maric's story is Canon no matter what..! .EVEN IF they decide to make a game prequel based on his exploits, there will be a canon...

I can completely understand NOT novelizing current game/s as it might give away important plot points and turn-the curio-meter off... and I appreciate that... Hypothesizing about this game has been fun... so BRING IT ON!

I thought of that SirShreK, and you thought of that....But sadly, most of the "fanboys" have "tunnel vision" and are incapable of seeing the bigger picture

I've mentioned it in my posts, but not books specifically.  I was just talking about outside media in general.

[HolyMoogle]

SirShreK wrote...

There is a need for a canon for the following reason: Books.

If at a later date the Writers decide to grace us with the novelized version of the games, you will find me standing in the queue outside Barnes and Noble or likewise... waiting for the canon storyline....

If you realize the importance of above statement you will KNOW that Maric's story is Canon no matter what..! .EVEN IF they decide to make a game prequel based on his exploits, there will be a canon...

I can completely understand NOT novelizing current game/s as it might give away important plot points and turn-the curio-meter off... and I appreciate that... Hypothesizing about this game has been fun... so BRING IT ON!

But what is the point? If DA works so well as a game that you love it enough to buy the books, why read what you have already experienced rather than something new?

I'm sure that DA will have plenty of books, but I don't think a retelling of DAO itself is likely.

Narreneth wrote...

HolyMoogle wrote...


Quit going caps and calling people asses over a videogame forum.

The
fact that they're calling it canon means that those canonical events of
DAO could influence future DA games which don't take into account saves
from DAO (which is likely) and also the various comics and books
related to DA. I'm not reducing the term simply to the act of
importaing a save (or not) into DA2.

The only canonical events
in DA should be those which don't take place in the timeline of the
games, and events within the games which you cannot influence. But
since they're saying a particular line through DAO is 'canon', it means
that it could skew all future DA stories to that particular canonical
line. Certainly, that might not happen, but since they're using that
word, it very well could.

I went to all caps
once, don't act like it's a repeated offense.  As far as calling you an
ass, quit acting like one and I won't call you on it.  Are you somehow
under the impression that the choices you make in Origins will not
transfer to DA:3?  That's incredibly silly of you to believe that.  If
the choices carry over into DA:2 and affect the world (as we already
know they will) then when DA:3 takes the file that has the state of the
world in it from DA:2 it will have your Origins choices as well. 
Tadaaa! Almost like magic, only it's not.  It's going to work the same
way in Mass Effect 3 from Mass Effect 2.  Hell, they're even working on
a utility to let your saves go cross-console so the variables will be
available even if you lose your original saves anyway. 

I
understand why you wouldn't want them to push a canon storyline in a
way that makes what we chose in our games seem less important.  I'm
right there with you.  But when we're talking about all this in the
context of having backstory so you can actually play a game after you buy it, then there's no reason to debate it.  

No, don't call me that, it's just silly. I'm just giving a view. Anyway, whether or not DA3 is ever made is not really the point. Setting up a canonical path through DAO means there most likely will be one through DA2, and thus any subsequent ones. If DA really becomes a 'franchise', as I think was suggested while DAO was in production, I really don't think "Dragon Age: The Next Generation VII: Can An Atheist Survive Political Realities in Contemporary Olrais?" or whatever is going to care about our savegames from DAO.

It's a conceptual thing. Either you have a canonical path, or you don't. And it can make a pretty big difference the further the franchise progresses.

[Anarya]

It's like your totally oblivious to fiscal realities. Exclude newcomers to the franchise unless they've started at the beginning? What kind of sense does that make? Imagine if movies or TV shows did that. Financial disaster.



Besides, as far as you're concerned if you import a save from DAO your decisions are law. So why would you care how other people experience DA2? Let them play the game for themselves at whatever jumping-in point they want. I mean really, what do you care who's king or who died in other people's games. From your perspective an established canon means nothing to you because you won't use it. Why get so outraged over it?

[Truncated Flea]

Set canon is necessary for a game franchise that a) enables you to make choices within the game, and has a continuining story set over more than one game.



The alternative is basically either no choices, or your bizarre idea of not letting people play the second game unless they've played the first. The first option would turn a lot of people off (RPG fans like their choices), and the second option would lose Bioware money. Either way they'd annoy a lot of potential fans, as opposed to setting some kind of basic default story, which would annoy some people (apparently!) but not nearly as many as either of the other choices would.



I don't even see why you care, though. If you import a save file from DAO then you'll have your own canon story, influenced by your choices. The only way you'll have to see or give a fig about the default "canon" story is if you don't import. Which it seems like you hate the very idea of, so I don't think you need to worry about it.

[HolyMoogle]

SirShreK wrote...

@Holymoogle:

Errr... If you have books set in the future of the DA universe... or even in the period of DA universe, NOT about PCGW or Hawke, you will still need some canon.

Depends on what the books are about, and what details they go into about what happened in DAO. I wouldn't say they NEED a canon (in relation to your DAO choices) to write those books.

I'm not saying there is no DA canon at all - 99% of the things which have happened in the franchise's world are things you have no impact over, so sure, they're canon. What I take issue with is the ~1% of things we do have an impact over, which really comes down to the race, gender, certain personal choices of the PC and whether certain other characters are alive or dead. It's really not a whole lot, and I don't think that tiny little bit of variation needs to be ironed out into a nice, neat canon.

Modifié par HolyMoogle, 19 juillet 2010 - 12:20 .

[CakesOnAPlane]

Wow I'm glad Bioware are the ones making the game

[Suron]

Guns3 wrote...

Arttis wrote...

What are you trying to say?
Canon is needed unless you want to ignore everything that happened in the games before.
They want people to see effects of their decisions.

I'm saying I don't support them having canon. Make them play the first one. Why wouldnt you start playing a story based game with the first?

don't be stupid.  most people are NOT going to go back to play the first one again just to be able to play the second.

what about saves that are lost? gotta replay?
if on PC what if you upgrade and lose your saves?  gotta replay?
if on 360 and your HDD dies? gotta replay?

don't be stupid, as I said.

being able to jump right into the game will bring more people.  ME2 does this, set's a "canon" story that you go with if you start w/o a savegame....now granted that is a poor example because the choices they force on you suck....but regardless.

with canon we get detailed information on what happened...people...exact events....etc....

without it we get nothing but tripe and ambiguous hints and nudges....

setting a canon allows for MUCH GREATER STORYTELLING down the line....

cry somewhere else.  they need a canon playthrough so that we can get a much better, richer, and more detailed story down the road.

I swear most of you poeple don't even think things through.

[Lord_Saulot]

Canon isn't really the right term for this. It's a default. And of course they need a default. You can't sell a new game (as opposed to an expansion) and force the players to play an older game first.

[Tirigon]

Why do we need continuation at all?



I mean, we´ll play this Hawke no matter what, so why do we need the stuff from DAO affect the game?

[Urazz]

Lord_Saulot wrote...

Canon isn't really the right term for this. It's a default. And of course they need a default. You can't sell a new game (as opposed to an expansion) and force the players to play an older game first.

We may not need it at the moment though but I agree that we will eventually for the DA series.


Mass Effect will probably need to do the same as well too after ME3 in my opinion..  Some of the choices you make in game can have a big effect on the future of the Mass Effect Universe.  I would think killing the Rachni queen, keeping the Collector base, and curing the Genophage would be pretty big changes that would require a canon storyline.

Modifié par Urazz, 19 juillet 2010 - 12:38 .

[Suron]

SirShreK wrote...

Suron wrote...

Guns3 wrote...

Arttis wrote...

What are you trying to say?
Canon is needed unless you want to ignore everything that happened in the games before.
They want people to see effects of their decisions.

I'm saying I don't support them having canon. Make them play the first one. Why wouldnt you start playing a story based game with the first?

don't be stupid.  most people are NOT going to go back to play the first one again just to be able to play the second.

what about saves that are lost? gotta replay?
if on PC what if you upgrade and lose your saves?  gotta replay?
if on 360 and your HDD dies? gotta replay?

don't be stupid, as I said.

being able to jump right into the game will bring more people.  ME2 does this, set's a "canon" story that you go with if you start w/o a savegame....now granted that is a poor example because the choices they force on you suck....but regardless.

with canon we get detailed information on what happened...people...exact events....etc....

without it we get nothing but tripe and ambiguous hints and nudges....

setting a canon allows for MUCH GREATER STORYTELLING down the line....

cry somewhere else.  they need a canon playthrough so that we can get a much better, richer, and more detailed story down the road.

I swear most of you poeple don't even think things through.

In that case I qualify as stupid. I played NWN after playing NWN2.

But I agree with your points about the canon.

at no point did I hint if you were one of the ones that do/did go back to a previous game that you were stupid.

I said it was stupid to think that people should have to do so...it will hurt sales big time.

stop looking for insults where there are none.

[Lord_Saulot]

Tirigon wrote...

Why do we need continuation at all?

I mean, we´ll play this Hawke no matter what, so why do we need the stuff from DAO affect the game?

Because the protaganist isn't the point of the series.  Thedas is.  And continuation is there to shape how Thedas grows and changes.

[Tirigon]

Lord_Saulot wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

Why do we need continuation at all?

I mean, we´ll play this Hawke no matter what, so why do we need the stuff from DAO affect the game?

Because the protaganist isn't the point of the series.  Thedas is.  And continuation is there to shape how Thedas grows and changes.

After Awakenings and Mass Effect, however, the combination of "BioWare" and "continuation" sounds like "fail" in my ears.

Better make a good game without continuation than waste ressources on crappy cameos.

[Lord Gremlin]

Default story is needed for players who don't have DAO and DAA and don't have saves to import.

[Bryy_Miller]

Well, there can be a default for those that don't import. It can be done.

[I saved Star Wars :D]

I can see it now, a game with no canon, but a series of options for backstory, for those not importing or having not played DAO.

"Screen 1:

Okay, so there was this guy, or girl. He/She was a Grey Warden human. Or Elf. Or Dwarf.

Anyway, there was this whole big thing.....

(Endless pages recapping the largest RPG in years and every possible choice that might have been made along the way.)

....and then you had to decide whether to sleep with Morrigan, who you were in love with (or might have hated. Or you might have been female.) That would mean you wouldn't have to die or sacrifice Alistair. Or Loghain.

Anywho, 36 cut scene conversation pages will now follow, with 4-5 options on each, for you to choose what you might have done in game you didn't play about a load of stuff you don't really understand."

Somehow I think a canon backstory is the better option.

PS - If anyone genuinely believes that they have loads of money that they don't know what to do with and it wouldn't hurt to get a few more voice actors in, then their understanding of how business and budgets work is questionnable at best.