150 réponses à ce sujet

[Ahisgewaya]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Honestly, I'd care more if the races and race relations weren't so cliched. Tropes are not bad, I know XD But the whole humans are enslaving jerks, dwarves have epic beards and live underground, and "elves are a lithe, pointy-eared people who excel at poverty" thing is JUST PLAIN OLD. It wasn't implemented poorly in DA:O--it was implemented blandly. Except for the backstabbing of the dwarves and their rigid caste system...that was a cool cultural element. Generally, though? Been there, done that, and done it better in other games/books/movies.

The thing that  really makes me upset is the fact that the "evil enslaving jerks" are the ones in control of everything, the default race, and the one that everyone is in real life. I play humans in other games and have no problem at all with it. Being one in Dragon Age makes me sick to my stomach.

[RunNeonTiger]

Ahisgewaya wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Honestly, I'd care more if the races and race relations weren't so cliched. Tropes are not bad, I know XD But the whole humans are enslaving jerks, dwarves have epic beards and live underground, and "elves are a lithe, pointy-eared people who excel at poverty" thing is JUST PLAIN OLD. It wasn't implemented poorly in DA:O--it was implemented blandly. Except for the backstabbing of the dwarves and their rigid caste system...that was a cool cultural element. Generally, though? Been there, done that, and done it better in other games/books/movies.

The thing that  really makes me upset is the fact that the "evil enslaving jerks" are the ones in control of everything, the default race, and the one that everyone is in real life. I play humans in other games and have no problem at all with it. Being one in Dragon Age makes me sick to my stomach.

But it's not like you're being forced to have and abuse slaves. And aren't humans usually the "evil enslaving jerks?" Name me a good number of RPGs where humans are the slaves and some other race is cracking the whip and not the other way around.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Ahisgewaya wrote...

The thing that  really makes me upset is the fact that the "evil enslaving jerks" are the ones in control of everything, the default race, and the one that everyone is in real life. I play humans in other games and have no problem at all with it. Being one in Dragon Age makes me sick to my stomach.

Well, BioWare were going for realism.  And in real life, the guys in control aren't always exactly kind and benevolent and all that, though I did think the cardboard cutout evil of humans toward other races was just plain silly in DA.

And besides, you're not playing the representative of all humans to all other species.  You're playing Hawke, one human.  One human who may very well NOT be a jerk.  If you play a human mage, the fact that you're human has nothing to do with anything.  There's something to be said for forging your own story, and for all we know the humans in the Free Marches may be culturally very different from the rest of Thedas.

RunNeonTiger wrote...

But it's not like you're being forced to have and abuse slaves. And aren't humans usually the "evil enslaving jerks?" Name me a good number of RPGs where humans are the slaves and some other race is cracking the whip and not the other way around.

Erm...the Mass Effect IP   Arguably, there humans are the plucky young upstarts, and the turians/asari/salarians are our jerk parents who won't let us do anything fun 

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 20 juillet 2010 - 07:12 .

[Ahisgewaya]

RunNeonTiger wrote...

Ahisgewaya wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Honestly, I'd care more if the races and race relations weren't so cliched. Tropes are not bad, I know XD But the whole humans are enslaving jerks, dwarves have epic beards and live underground, and "elves are a lithe, pointy-eared people who excel at poverty" thing is JUST PLAIN OLD. It wasn't implemented poorly in DA:O--it was implemented blandly. Except for the backstabbing of the dwarves and their rigid caste system...that was a cool cultural element. Generally, though? Been there, done that, and done it better in other games/books/movies.

The thing that  really makes me upset is the fact that the "evil enslaving jerks" are the ones in control of everything, the default race, and the one that everyone is in real life. I play humans in other games and have no problem at all with it. Being one in Dragon Age makes me sick to my stomach.

But it's not like you're being forced to have and abuse slaves. And aren't humans usually the "evil enslaving jerks?" Name me a good number of RPGs where humans are the slaves and some other race is cracking the whip and not the other way around.

Humans in the entire Elder Scrolls Series used to be slaves, to elves ironically. The reason why I don't mind that as much is the humans overthrew their oppressors and now rule the world in those games. So when playing as an elf in that setting you don't feel like a douchebag because the horrible things that elves did to humans aren't happeining any more, whereas in Dragon Age, they still are. Not only that but in Dragon Age you don't even get to change any of it. 

[RunNeonTiger]

Haha yeah I guess Mass Effect could count in a way, but it's more typical in fantasy RPGs like DA:O where it's two or three races on the same planet for one race to enslave another. In Mass Effect, the humans sort of elbowed their way into a government that'd already been in existence so of course there would be some bad blood.



I'm probably not making much sense and I apologize if I'm not.

[Ahisgewaya]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
Well, BioWare were going for realism.  And in real life, the guys in control aren't always exactly kind and benevolent and all that, though I did think the cardboard cutout evil of humans toward other races was just plain silly in DA.

The difference is in real life I can overthrow the guys in control if they're acting like douchebags, or at least die trying. In Dragon Age I am one of the many who say "Oh, that's sad" but does nothing whatsoever about it.

[Ahisgewaya]

Also I still feel bad whenever I play a high elf in Oblivion or Morrowind for this exact reason (dark elves too).

[Arttis]

SO far the tevinter Imperium has yet to fall..if you want to get rid of slaves get rid of them...they will die trying also...even then some slavery wll still be around.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Ahisgewaya wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
Well, BioWare were going for realism.  And in real life, the guys in control aren't always exactly kind and benevolent and all that, though I did think the cardboard cutout evil of humans toward other races was just plain silly in DA.

The difference is in real life I can overthrow the guys in control if they're acting like douchebags, or at least die trying. In Dragon Age I am one of the many who say "Oh, that's sad" but does nothing whatsoever about it.

But the point is that the DA games are roleplaying games.  You don't have to be one of the jerks in control.  You can play a human who is progressive, fair, and open-minded just as easily as you can play a complete tool.  Being a human, playing human, does not mean you have to play a jerk any more than it means that every human you bump into in DA:O is a jerk.  Though to be fair, a few of them do stick out.

And if you play as a human, you can make things better for the elves even though it's not a specific origin boon.  You can ease relations between the Dalish and the humans, at least for a time.  You can still help out the Alienage.  It all depends on how much of a saint or a jerk you want to be.

Arttis wrote...

SO far the tevinter Imperium has yet to fall..if you want to get rid of slaves get rid of them...they will die trying also...even then some slavery wll still be around.

Maybe I'm just a bad person, but I want to see more rather than less of the Imperium, and I'd rather see them strengthen than fall.  Probably because IRL, I find Roman and Byzantine history and culture fascinating.  Also because SOMEONE other than the qunari has to start sticking it to the Chantry. 

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 20 juillet 2010 - 07:30 .

[Ahisgewaya]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
But the point is that the DA games are roleplaying games.  You don't have to be one of the jerks in control.  You can play a human who is progressive, fair, and open-minded just as easily as you can play a complete tool.  Being a human, playing human, does not mean you have to play a jerk any more than it means that every human you bump into in DA:O is a jerk.

You don't have to be one of the jerks in control, but instead you can be one of the "oh that's so sad" people who still go about their daily lives. If I was in a world like Dragon Age, I would be made king or have there be no king, because anarchy could at least be taken over more easily. Only the king could make the sort of de facto changes necessary to end the mistreatment of the elves in Ferelden, and as you can see based on the ending Alistair is too busy touring the countryside to make those sort of changes and Loghain is not interested. The only option is demand you are king or support no one. You don't get the option to do that though. It's either Alistair or Loghain. The former is innefectual to make ALL of the necessary changes. The latter is unwilling. It has to be you or the elves remain second class citizens and eventually disappear.

[In Exile]

Removed as it was unrelated to the topic.

Modifié par In Exile, 20 juillet 2010 - 08:48 .

[Ahisgewaya]

Removed as it was unrelated to the topic.

Modifié par Ahisgewaya, 20 juillet 2010 - 08:54 .

[In Exile]

Removed as it was unrelated to the topic.

Modifié par In Exile, 20 juillet 2010 - 08:49 .

[Ahisgewaya]

Removed as it was unrelated to the topic.

Modifié par Ahisgewaya, 20 juillet 2010 - 08:55 .

[biomag]

Human... I could never really attach myself to my dwarfen characters. For me they always will be sidekicks.

[In Exile]

Ahisgewaya wrote...
Perhaps you heard of the Wounded Knee Incident of 1973. If not, just look it up on Wikipedia or something. It was an uprising, and it did quite a bit of good.

I think it is better we cease discussing this, though. Nothing good can come out of speaking about real-world politics in my view. Especially on the internet.

Modifié par In Exile, 20 juillet 2010 - 08:40 .

[Ahisgewaya]

In Exile wrote...
I think it is better we cease discussing this, though. Nothing good can come out of speaking about real-world politics in my view. Especially on the internet.

I agree.

Modifié par Ahisgewaya, 20 juillet 2010 - 08:52 .

[In Exile]

Ahisgewaya wrote...
I agree.

Could you edit my post out? I would appreciate have the comments striken, and I think both you and I can better appreciate our positions. This is just a topic that is sensitive for me, as it is for you.

[Ahisgewaya]

In Exile wrote...
Could you edit my post out? I would appreciate have the comments striken, and I think both you and I can better appreciate our positions. This is just a topic that is sensitive for me, as it is for you.

Done. I really shouldn't be this vehement about things. I've often wondered if this game brings up too many emotional things for me.

[Well]

Elf even though I have fun with Dwarf.I done all the races and classes with each that I was able to.No Dwarf magi..bummer.

[Arttis]

Well dwarves can be templars...soo....sort of magic.

[Ahisgewaya]

Kind of anti-magic isn't it though? 

They can be Spirit Warriors though.

Modifié par Ahisgewaya, 20 juillet 2010 - 09:23 .

[Jestina]

Anything but human....this game looks awful so far.

[Arttis]

Come on pick one.....

[Arrtis]

Ahisgewaya wrote...

Kind of anti-magic isn't it though? 

They can be Spirit Warriors though.

Did spirit warriors use magic?
Never played awakenings.