42753 réponses à ce sujet

[Valentyna]

adneate wrote...

@Valentyna That's why Dragon Age's romance system was far superior to anything the Mass Effect series has ever done since you have to clearly indicate interest in a character by flirting with them or by giving signals that you like them as well. Then you have to actually develop that relationship by talking to them, giving them personal gifts or doing things that they approve of and the relationship goes through stages as the character first Cares for the player, then they Adore them and lastly they fall in Love over the course of the year that Dragon Age takes place. Mass Effect's romances are very shallow by comparison more so in ME2 due to the total gutting of the dialogue system which now has drastically less content and depth.

@JamieCOTC I heard their explanations as well, they just don't make any sense but I have no intention of pushing the issue here since it's not the place for it.

Mmm, sounds like awesomesauce!  Im just poor at the moment, and currently obsessed enough with this game, but its totally on my list.  To be fair though, there`s something to be said for other characters persuing _you_ if they decide they`re attracted to you.  I`m told that happens to some people, now and then, *nod, nod*.  To be even fairerer, it kinda happens to smexy, famous women (like our femsheps - and, I assume, a female protagonist in DA) more than most.  I just wish there had been some way to tell Kaiden you`re not into him that way without totally demolishing his feelings (and, realistically, your friendship, probably).

It really does sound like a much more involved system though, I agree.  Since they were made by the same company I wonder that they didn`t try to do something similar here.  Its not as if there were years, of even months of development time to fine-tune whatever mechanisms they use to program these things in between the releases.  Ahh well, if wishes were wings... then I`d be able to remember the end of that saying...

EDIT: something _does_ occur to me - you said DA takes place over a year.  I don`t knwo if there`s an in-game calender or not, but I ahd the distinct impression that Mass Effect 2 covers a much shorter time period than that - certainly shorter than the first game, too.  You could argue, I suppose, that there isn`t really time for a longer, more serious courtship, and that the relationship(s) you forge are more in the way of battlefield romance - forged more through constant emotional pressure, curious passion, and close quarters than a truly deep understanding of the other person.

But what would be the fun in that for us romance-aholics?  

Modifié par Valentyna, 20 juillet 2010 - 03:18 .

[adneate]

Valentyna wrote...

Mmm, sounds like awesomesauce!  Im just poor at the moment, and currently obsessed enough with this game, but its totally on my list.  To be fair though, there`s something to be said for other characters persuing _you_ if they decide they`re attracted to you.  I`m told that happens to some people, now and then, *nod, nod*.  To be even fairerer, it kinda happens to smexy, famous women (like our femsheps - and, I assume, a female protagonist in DA) more than most.  I just wish there had been some way to tell Kaiden you`re not into him that way without totally demolishing his feelings (and, realistically, your friendship, probably).

That does happen in Dragon Age one party member in particular starts hitting on a female Warden pretty much the moment you meet him, however as you mention you have the ability to gently turn him down or tell him off. You can just be friends with someone and talk to them all the time without them later declaring their undying love, which is how it should be. A longer build up also makes the relationship between your Warden and their love interest feel more human as others will comment as the relationship matures about the amount of time they spend together or if you share the same tent at camp every night.

Valentyna wrote...

EDIT: something does occur to me - you said DA takes place over a year.  I don`t knwo if there`s an in-game calender or not, but I ahd the distinct impression that Mass Effect 2 covers a much shorter time period than that - certainly shorter than the first game, too.  You could argue, I suppose, that there isn`t really time for a longer, more serious courtship, and that the relationship(s) you forge are more in the way of battlefield romance - forged more through constant emotional pressure, curious passion, and close quarters than a truly deep understanding of the other person.

Well Dragon Age takes place over a year or more, bit of a debate on how long it does take but one year is the generally accepted figure. That's actually my complaint with Mass Effect is that the romances are very movie like in that two characters just meet and then fall totally in love with each other and would give their life for the other person. I know for the Liara romance she at least mentions that she's only known Shepard for a short period of time and it's an odd thing to feel for someone so new to your life. Personally I prefer the more human romances from Dragon Age since they have much greater emotional impact on the player and really represent a superior form of storytelling, particularily if something you did or didn't do hours ago makes your love interest break-up with you later in the game and leave you the party for good.

Modifié par adneate, 20 juillet 2010 - 03:37 .

[Valentyna]

Mmm, well, maybe thats it. Mass Effect, 1 and 2 both, kinda feels cinimatic - like you`re staring in an epic space opera movie - your very own Star Wars (only better - but thats a whole other flame war). Perhaps, if we`re feeling charitable towards the devs, the romances are _supposed_ to fit that feel - that sense of urgency and style of storytelling.



From what you`ve described, Dragon Age sounds more like a fantasy novel - perhaps less visceral in certain ways, but probably deeper and, in a lot of senses, more rewarding.

[FireEye]

For what it's worth, I thought that the events of ME1 took about eight months to a year.

I thought the events in ME2 were more compact and took about three to six months.

That's how it worked out in my head, anyway.  I felt that the ME1 human romances had more of a "building friendship" aspect to them than the ME2 romances, but that's just me.

I'd be playing as FemShep even if there weren't any romances for her at all. 

[Valentyna]

I think I would as well. Like I say, It just seems wierd - almost wrong - to me, to play manshep. The one time I tried it (with Ashley) that went double for the romancing. But I`d definitely miss it if it werent there, and It`d definately be even _better_ if it were more in depth.

[theelementslayer]

I know this is off topic, kinda, but I thought the romances in ME2 were better then DA:O or ME:1

ME1 and DAO were all about "love" romances, and yes thats fine but the people just met and they ar falling in love? maybe I guess but didnt really seem real to me. ME2 romances were about comfort before the final plunge-bar talis romance. Jacks romance, Mirandas. Never did a garrus romance but I could see love a bit more since they knew each other longer. Again, thanes romance seemed just about comfort they all seemed just to want it before they went into a suicide mission. Kind of that last breath of normal human behaviour. Not all this I love you stuff

Edit: Keeping on topic. I love Hales VA, she is so good at just quiet intimidation

Modifié par theelementslayer, 20 juillet 2010 - 04:11 .

[adneate]

theelementslayer wrote...

I know this is off topic, kinda, but I thought the romances in ME2 were better then DA:O or ME:1

ME1 and DAO were all about "love" romances, and yes thats fine but the people just met and they ar falling in love? maybe I guess but didnt really seem real to me. ME2 romances were about comfort before the final plunge-bar talis romance. Jacks romance, Mirandas. Never did a garrus romance but I could see love a bit more since they knew each other longer. Again, thanes romance seemed just about comfort they all seemed just to want it before they went into a suicide mission. Kind of that last breath of normal human behaviour. Not all this I love you stuff

Really? That doesn't make sense to me, since the romances in ME1 never used the word love and in DA:O those relationships take place over the course of an entire year. I don't know if it's so unbelievable that if two people live and fight side by side for a year that they could fall in love with each other. How long do you think it takes to develop a meaningful attachment to another human being? If a year is "Just met" than what is the acceptable amount of time a decade? In addition the Origins romances are usually graduated with some characters offering specific out points before the love stage, while others what to know you love them and are sincere before they'll go the next step with you. Maybe if you firmly believe relatively meaningless sexual relationships are superior to lasting ones built on real and deep emotional connection than your stance makes sense, but human beings in general seem to desire companionship and understanding very highly.

[theelementslayer]

adneate wrote...

theelementslayer wrote...

I know this is off topic, kinda, but I thought the romances in ME2 were better then DA:O or ME:1

ME1 and DAO were all about "love" romances, and yes thats fine but the people just met and they ar falling in love? maybe I guess but didnt really seem real to me. ME2 romances were about comfort before the final plunge-bar talis romance. Jacks romance, Mirandas. Never did a garrus romance but I could see love a bit more since they knew each other longer. Again, thanes romance seemed just about comfort they all seemed just to want it before they went into a suicide mission. Kind of that last breath of normal human behaviour. Not all this I love you stuff

Really? That doesn't make sense to me, since the romances in ME1 never used the word love and in DA:O those relationships take place over the course of an entire year. I don't know if it's so unbelievable that if two people live and fight side by side for a year that they could fall in love with each other. How long do you think it takes to develop a meaningful attachment to another human being? If a year is "Just met" than what is the acceptable amount of time a decade? In addition the Origins romances are usually graduated with some characters offering specific out points before the love stage, while others what to know you love them and are sincere before they'll go the next step with you. Maybe if you firmly believe relatively meaningless sexual relationships are superior to lasting ones built on real and deep emotional connection than your stance makes sense, but human beings in general seem to desire companionship and understanding very highly.

Meh maybe Im just cynical, and its just an opinion. btw I though DA took place in like 3 months . I dunno just seemed like the DA ones worked out too quickly and too perfectly. And for ME1 well ya Liara never used love but damn she was intrested. And Ashley, when I saw her on horizon in the second game she was yes confused but the email really kinda said it was more then just that night before IIlos. Just felt that ME2 were more about the sex then the love and when going into a suicide mission seems more normal to be worried about sex then love because, no offense, but if someone is going to die right next to me I would rather it not be the one that I loved, it just puts too much strain on a person I think. But thats just my opinion. So no hate from me :happy:

[Fiery Phoenix]

Slayer, you're right. Female Shepard has Thane, who makes the best possible romance subplot I've ever seen in a game.

[adneate]

theelementslayer wrote...

Meh maybe Im just cynical, and its just an opinion. btw I though DA took place in like 3 months . I dunno just seemed like the DA ones worked out too quickly and too perfectly. And for ME1 well ya Liara never used love but damn she was intrested. And Ashley, when I saw her on horizon in the second game she was yes confused but the email really kinda said it was more then just that night before IIlos. Just felt that ME2 were more about the sex then the love and when going into a suicide mission seems more normal to be worried about sex then love because, no offense, but if someone is going to die right next to me I would rather it not be the one that I loved, it just puts too much strain on a person I think. But thats just my opinion. So no hate from me :happy:

Fair enough we'll agree to disagree on the issue. But I know for a fact that Dragon Age takes place over the course of a year of more according to the writers of the game. Also for working out perfectly and quickly try Zevran or better yet Morrigan, not quick with Zev and far from perfect with Morrigan.

[theelementslayer]

adneate wrote...

theelementslayer wrote...

Meh maybe Im just cynical, and its just an opinion. btw I though DA took place in like 3 months . I dunno just seemed like the DA ones worked out too quickly and too perfectly. And for ME1 well ya Liara never used love but damn she was intrested. And Ashley, when I saw her on horizon in the second game she was yes confused but the email really kinda said it was more then just that night before IIlos. Just felt that ME2 were more about the sex then the love and when going into a suicide mission seems more normal to be worried about sex then love because, no offense, but if someone is going to die right next to me I would rather it not be the one that I loved, it just puts too much strain on a person I think. But thats just my opinion. So no hate from me :happy:

Fair enough we'll agree to disagree on the issue. But I know for a fact that Dragon Age takes place over the course of a year of more according to the writers of the game. Also for working out perfectly and quickly try Zevran or better yet Morrigan, not quick with Zev and far from perfect with Morrigan.

And those are the two I havent tried. Ive only played a girl and did allistar and liliana or however you spell it. Ill have to pick it up with a male character and get morrigan. Also keeping on topic of this thread fav femshep line in ME?

[Cypher0020]

Woooow..... that cosplay armor is awesome......



*drools*

[Valentyna]

Mmm, real, rewarding relationships are obviously better as a rule. At least, I prefer them. But she has a point, Adneate, I feel, in that it does, as I said before, make a certain amount of sense for Shepard's interludes in ME2 to be a bit more... Casual doesn't seem right, since in some cases there's obviously a lot of passion, but certainly a lot less permanent.

RE: Thane. I felt like it had the _potential_ to be the greatest romance ina video-game ever. He has a wonderfuly written perosnality,a dnt eh acting exceptional, and there are glimpses in the relationship dialog of a lot going on. I was surprised how touched I was when he confesses that he's scared despite all he's done to make peace with immanent mortality and takes comfort in your arms. And he's definately got the 'confidence is sexy' thing down cold.  But, as we've said above, there's just not enough of it! I'd like more than anything (anything in ME2 anyway) t be able to explore your relationship with him more, but its just not there. He calls you 'Siha'..., then explains what it means... then has his vulnerable moment and knocks boots... and thats it. It felt like such wasted potential, at least to me.

Modifié par Valentyna, 20 juillet 2010 - 05:26 .

[Valentyna]

Favorite line... hmm... There are some good ones that tickle my funny bone, but I doubt their female-only (the one int he movie above about 'relinquishing one bullet' is pretty good).



I also fell out of my chair laughing on Tuchanka when EDI says that killing the Thresher Maw has resulted in, "several breeding requests for Grunt... and one for Shepard". There /are/ female Krogan, though (even if they won't speak with you, stuck up b-... bad women that they are), so I imagine you can get that with Manshep too.



Its not technically a line, but I think headbutting the Krogan may be my favorite dialog option. Also for both genders Im sure, but there's something about doing it on slender, blond Femshep that makes it more awesome than the handsome beefcake action hero.

[AngryFrozenWater]

I am not interested in the alien ME2 LIs. That leaves Jacob. Not a fan of him either. So, I skipped the LIs in ME2 and stayed loyal to the ME1 one. As if "staying loyal" was a choice. I don't want to know why BW's writers dreamed up those awful Kaidan/Ashley/Liara ME2 "plots". What a crap.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 20 juillet 2010 - 06:02 .

[Valentyna]

To each their own!

Im off for the night forum-goers. In case I dont ever find my way back to this thread, its been all manner of fun!  Night, night; sleep tight; don't let the Krogans bite (unless they ask nicely).

Oh, and PS, I WILL get that leather costume to work, just as soon as I finish figuring out what these people are talking about on that thread. Posting pictures when I do!

Modifié par Valentyna, 20 juillet 2010 - 05:52 .

[AkodoRyu]

My own contribution, made for teh lulz, and because of this terrible hot weather outside:



No stealing ;]

Modifié par AkodoRyu, 20 juillet 2010 - 07:31 .

[OrbitalWings]

AkodoRyu wrote...

My own contribution, made for teh lulz, and because of this terrible hot weather outside:

No stealing ;]

Veeeeery nice.

I likes

[Christmas Ape]

Wow, this thread took off like a shot, huh? Thought I'd stick my head in and offer my support, what with getting a group invitation from the thread starter and all.



Twelve playthroughs of ME1 (all 6 classes to level 60), four of ME2 so far, and not one of them MaleShep (though I've made it to a second plot world with one). Hale's voice is Shepard's voice to me. The article in particular nails it; she sounds like a commander. From the first line I heard her speak, "And they don't send Spectres on shake-down runs, either", I felt like this was a female protagonist who'd earned everything she had. She's one of the more 'real' female video game characters I've encountered in my lifetime of pixel-pushing, at least in my opinion.



And as I say, I've had about two solid decades of video games under my belt; I've played more "lantern-jawed male space marine saves the universe" than I can even count. It's refreshing to do so with a female lead, and one who doesn't ever, even for a moment, feel like fanservice.

[skcm]

rynluna wrote...

this awesome picture of HistorianofHell's N7 armor!!

Wow!  It looks fantastic.  Mad props to her, a million times over!  I'm detoxing from Dragon Age agony (damn you, metagame knowledge!  Ruining my ability to play a game and all!) so am finishing up my most recent femshep playthroughs, and I believe this might still be on-topic, as it was mentioned earlier:  I really dig the Thane romance.  I think the charm in romancing Garrus is that there are obviously things neither of you are saying about mutual respect sort of bleeding across the border between just respect and actual romantic interest.

However, the appeal of the Thane deal, is what actually /is/ said.  The two are honest with one another, and Jenn Hale does a fan****intastic job of being both curious/fascinated, and acting attracted to Thane.  I love Jacob as a friend, but can't get over the really awkward/OOC flirty stuff, and can't get him to stop telling me that he and my Femshep have a good thing going.

Doesn't mean I wouldn't totally take him up on that offer to get drinks someday.  Enough about all the lovey crap, though, 'cause I gotta reiterate how great drunk Femshep's voicework is.  Bringin' me some joy! 

[Jade Elf]

Mara Shepard (currently replaying; Paragon Infiltrator) approves of this thread!

Christmas Ape wrote...

Twelve playthroughs of ME1 (all 6 classes to level 60), four of ME2 so far, and not one of them MaleShep (though I've made it to a second plot world with one). Hale's voice is Shepard's voice to me. The article in particular nails it; she sounds like a commander. From the first line I heard her speak, "And they don't send Spectres on shake-down runs, either", I felt like this was a female protagonist who'd earned everything she had. She's one of the more 'real' female video game characters I've encountered in my lifetime of pixel-pushing, at least in my opinion.

And as I say, I've had about two solid decades of video games under my belt; I've played more "lantern-jawed male space marine saves the universe" than I can even count. It's refreshing to do so with a female lead, and one who doesn't ever, even for a moment, feel like fanservice.

Total agreement, and I also have about the same amount of gaming experience.

There's some really nice fan art in this thread, too!

[Christmas Ape]

Jade Elf wrote...

There's some really nice fan art in this thread, too!

There is indeed! The armchair group psychologist in me says the lack of promotional FemShep material means players develop a more personal connection to her and feel driven to express it, which is why there's so much excellent FemShep fanart and less for MaleSheps, but like I say, that's just me armchairing.