42753 réponses à ce sujet

[nranola]

Very interesting to see everyone's take on the creation process. Thanks for sharing! It makes for a very fun read.

Ottemis wrote...

Then emotiveness is very important for me, so I always check them out ingame.

Which is also why i friggin adore Raine, I've caught her showing such a variety of emotions she just feels more real to me then the other two, even though Jane has a knack for it too.

I find that some features tend to lean more towards one emotion/personality so the range of how their face animates can appear limited.

And I agree about Raine. I can tell that she emotes well just by looking at a screenshot.

sagequeen wrote...

Er, well, actually, my first trait was to make her blonde.

Same story here, really. xD Color was my first trait. From the very start I was dead-set on making her a redhead, which was odd for me then since I usually make my characters brunettes. Red just felt so right for Shepard somehow. Default Jane being ginger probably played a part in it; red just adds a bit more stark.

Hah, seeing Kyrie and the edited #5 femShep now, they really do look alike don't they? xD


To answer my own question: I almost always start with the hair because it frames the face; not all faces look quite right in any hairstyle. Then skin tone, then face shape (for Jennelyn I more prominent cheeks, for Jennica a stronger jaw). It's after that that I usually pick the remaining features and move them around.

Admittedly I was especially drawn to these eyebrows for Jennica. They look positively intimidating on certain facial animations:



And of course the eye color for Jennelyn, but I'm being redundant. xP


EDIT: Reposting for ToP.

f1r3storm wrote...

Modifié par nranola, 03 août 2011 - 07:48 .

[Patchwork]

Before I hit the CC I normally know approximately what I want my new character to look like. I start with the hair and jaw usually then tweak the rest.

[Ottemis]

nranola wrote...
I find that some features tend to lean more towards one emotion/personality so the range of how their face animates can appear limited.

Yeah I've noticed the same.

To answer my own question: I almost always start with the hair because it frames the face; not all faces look quite right in any hairstyle. Then skin tone, then face shape (for Jennelyn I more prominent cheeks, for Jennica a stronger jaw). It's after that that I usually pick the remaining features and move them around.

Admittedly I was especially drawn to these eyebrows for Jennica.

Yeah same, if I have a specific hairstyle i'm aiming for I need to start with it or have clipping issues with the scalp/jawline gaps etc.. annoyances. But then that goes for any and every feature you have envisioned for a character, you start with that and sculpt the rest round it I suppose.

[NM7]

Love the Penny Arcade comic.

And Tycho also posted a bit along side the comic about FemShep, which I'll paste here. It's a nice little read.

Tycho wrote...

When I was tooling around the ‘Con a couple weeks ago, I managed to scam my way into a BioWare thingy where (much to my surprise) six massive Shepards stood vigil. The female Shepard that is, colloquially referred to as FemShep. It was all part of a contest designed to play up the distaff side of the equation, chosen by just under a fifth of the playerbase. You could go online and choose which one would be the default.  Employees of the company were very excited about it, and all had their favorites; none of the ones I spoke to would have chosen the Shepard now known ignominiously as Shepard 5.

It’s one of these online ****storms in certain quarters now, people don’t like how it shook out, or who might have shaken it out. That’s the trouble with democracy, huh? The wrong people are always voting.

The idea that this tousled, interstellar bad-ass with a sidearm, an assault rifle, and some kind of hard-light holoblade represents some kind of wilting star princess is beyond comprehension. This is the same Shepherd, Commander Shepard, whose exploits have cut this way and that across an entire galaxy; the one who parleyed with Reavers, and released the Rachni. The one who died and was reborn, the one who laid low a writhing and larval world-eater.

She is that Shepard, even though she may not be your Shepard, just like she isn’t mine; I have every intention of Reconstructing the Profile. I didn’t vote, which is to say I didn’t “Like” my “favorite,” because I don’t book face. My own Commander Shepard is based more or less on my wife Brenna. I wanted to make a far-flung, up-armored version of my daughter Ronia next time around, but then I remember that you have sex with tons of aliens in this game, and that seemed like a weird thing to be doing with her body. Are we still allowed to hope that our daughters settle down  with a nice human, irrespective of gender, even though it forecloses the possibility of couplings with sentient minerals or bepedal reptoids? I hope this is something a father is still allowed to do.

When it comes to sci-fi heroines, it’s sort of hard to beat Lieutenant Ellen Ripley - but she’s got good company. Starbuck comes to mind, but in the game context Samus Aran will always rule the roost. Not the new codependent
weirdo Samus, I mean the old hard-ass who deigns to remove her helmet when and only when she has obliterated every lifeform on the crust of that world. She also has a symmetrical body and blonde hair, which is unfortunate - she might otherwise have been valid, interesting, or powerful.

It’s genuinely bizarre what people are trying to get away with here. They’ve rendered the shopworn “blonde joke” with post-modern foofaraw, and finished it with an organic Açai reduction. It’s ridiculous. I wasn’t aware this was something we still tolerated? I always forget which people we may stereotype safely; it’s entirely possible I missed
the latest communique.

(CW)TB out.

Edit: God I hate how the forum butchers text that you copy and paste. Fixed to make it more readable.

Modifié par Akari Tenshi, 03 août 2011 - 12:14 .

[adneate]

Tycho wrote...

She is that Shepard, even though she may not be your Shepard, just like she isn’t mine . . .

And there is the reality behind this faux "controversy" and asinine "debate", it's a total lie when people get up on their high horse and tell everyone else that they should do this or that and make some social stand with a default face gen setting. What they really are saying, without just being honest and just actually saying it, is that #5 doesn't look enough like their Shepard. Since they obviously have perfect taste and a boundless intellect and would never pick something that was wrong, everyone else should do what they do and like what they like and think about it the way they do.

After all these people value their own opinion very highly, shouldn't you value their opinion just as much?

[meonlyred]

f1r3storm wrote...
/PennyArcadeFemShep

And this is why I love Penny Arcade. "A precision orbital strike, the only way to be sure."

[ELE08]

It's all Conrad's fault.

I voted for number five over 900 times because she looked most like you *leer*
I knew all those fake email accounts would come in handy some day.
Can I get your picture again?

[Jei]

adneate wrote...

And there is the reality behind this faux "controversy" and asinine "debate", it's a total lie when people get up on their high horse and tell everyone else that they should do this or that and make some social stand with a default face gen setting. What they really are saying, without just being honest and just actually saying it, is that #5 doesn't look enough like their Shepard. Since they obviously have perfect taste and a boundless intellect and would never pick something that was wrong, everyone else should do what they do and like what they like and think about it the way they do.

After all these people value their own opinion very highly, shouldn't you value their opinion just as much?

I don't particularly agree with calling a debate asinine just because you don't find it a worthwhile debate. And one can think the voting process was problematic without actually believing #5 was "wrong" just because it didn't look like their own Shepard. Heck, I'd personally find it odd if I ever saw tons of people playing a Shepard that looked exactly like mine.

At the end of the day, for me personally, what gender I play in the privacy of my own home isn't a social stand. The woman that goes on the boxart and winds up in trailers and other marketing tools, however, is goiing to make a social stand of some kind by default, simply by virtue of having that many people be aware of her existence. People who, due to previous lack of gender equality in marketing, may not have been aware for the first two games.

I've said it before in comments on various articles about this, and I'll say it again here: I don't think conflating "stereotypes are problematic" and "blondes are dumb" is doing anyone any favors on either side of the debate. I have no problem with white blonde women kicking ass all across the galaxy. I don't think she can't do it. She's Commander Freaking Shepard -- she's done the impossible for two games already no matter what she looks like, y'know? It's just that, since Bioware's one of the few big companies I know who actually puts their money where their collective mouth is when it comes to various social equalities, I was hoping for a step that was a little further forward than this.

Again, I've got no personal beef with white blonde FemShep. Or white blonde women in real life, for that matter! I just wanted a FemShep that wasn't necessarily going to conform to stereotypes of accepted female beauty standards. It's tough to be a minority person and constantly get the message that, by and large, only the pretty white folks get to save the world, in movies and television and games. But while I'm disappointed about that, I'm still generally happy with Bioware. I like their games, and I like the people that make them. I think we can agree on that part, at least.

[B-Ri.hoosier]

Mass Effect 3 FemShep wallpaper (warning: not for those allergic to blondes)

http://www.facebook....&type=1

[adneate]

Jack Stark wrote...
 It's just that, since Bioware's one of the few big companies I know who actually puts their money where their collective mouth is when it comes to various social equalities, I was hoping for a step that was a little further forward than this.

Again, I've got no personal beef with white blonde FemShep. Or white blonde women in real life, for that matter! I just wanted a FemShep that wasn't necessarily going to conform to stereotypes of accepted female beauty standards. It's tough to be a minority person and constantly get the message that, by and large, only the pretty white folks get to save the world, in movies and television and games. But while I'm disappointed about that, I'm still generally happy with Bioware. I like their games, and I like the people that make them. I think we can agree on that part, at least.

It seems like most people have totally lost the point of why anybody wanted something like this in the first place, it wasn't to make some statement against Western standards of beauty or start some media revolution. It was to make clear that the female Commander Shepard was just as valid an option as the male counterpart and others (both male and female) should try it. So that maybe others who didn't know about her could prehaps enjoy the character as much as we all do. Yet all this silly debate is only about is how she should look, as if in a game with a custom face creator that matters. She already has and will continue to look however you want her to be, and she can be as stereotypical or as unconventional as you feel she should be.

At the end of the day this marketing push isn't even really for people like us, we don't need to be sold on FemShep or Mass Effect. We already know about all that stuff, what we get out of it is tangentially related to the actual purpose of the material. We get to hear some great lines and see what our character's armour, weapons and animations are going to look like. Nobody here is going to go "Wow I should get this Mass Effect 3 and play as this Shepard woman, she's cool!", which is the primary purpose of anything coming out of the marketing department of EA / BioWare.

[f1r3storm]

Jane Shepard by CELENG.

[100k]

I've already voiced my opinions on why I'm fine with whatever femShep looks like, but I'll say it again: in the end, it doesn't really solve BW's problem of attracting a new audience.

What Bioware needs to do to really attract female gamers is release a trailer like this. More women will buy a game that displays a level of customization and micromanagement. Unlike men (generally speaking) the ability to make a character that is unique to the woman it corresponds with will be very attractive to most *casual* females.

So why (in my opinion) won't the new femShep attract as many new female players as BW thinks it will? Because there is a distinct difference in a game with a female protagonist, and a game that appeals to women in general.

Heavenly Sword, Metroid, Lara Croft, Beyond Good and Evil, WET, FF X2, etc etc all have female leads. But that doesn't make them as attractive to women as men. They all deliver visual standards of how women should look, dress, and act (sometimes with unforgiving camera angles). And for all of these games (except Beyond Good and Evil), they still romanticize masculinity -- simply by dressing it up in female form. We don't consciously think about these things, but we do accept them.

Women like choices. Games like Sims, Farmville, and Cityville are very popular with the ladies. They offer a level of personalization that men (typically) don't demand in their games.

If Bioware showed a trailer like The Many Faces of Femshep -- leading into the new standard femShep model, that would attract a lot of new women to the franchise. Women would see that Mass Effect has more to offer than simply blow-sh!t-up-and-look-cool. It offers women choice. Choices in clothing. Choices in weapons. Choices in romances. Choices in dialogue.

You can dress Samus Aran in 50 lbs of armor and have her shoot aliens. But at the end of the day, she's just a merc killing stuff to your average casual gamer (who doesn't go onto gaming forums, look at reviews, and makes purchases on cover value).

You can make Lara Croft more vulnerable and less blatantly sexual by covering up her legs, giving her a pick axe, and smothering her face with dirt. But at the end of the day, the title "Tomb Raider" still brings to mind the busty sexy cave explorer from the 90s.

But think about what could be accomplished with femShepard, a character that a woman could tailor to her own preference.

[leggywillow]

adneate wrote...
It seems like most people have totally lost the point of why anybody wanted something like this in the first place, it wasn't to make some statement against Western standards of beauty or start some media revolution. It was to make clear that the female Commander Shepard was just as valid an option as the male counterpart and others (both male and female) should try it.

This.

In fact, before BW decided to present 6 options and let the fandom vote, one of the devs actually tweeted in response to someone asking for a darker skinned FemShep saying that FemShep would be caucasian.  Apparently they changed their minds and decided to let the fandom vote, but pushing the envelope about beauty standards or whatever was never on the agenda.

[NM7]

I think Adneate has hit the nail on the head.

This was supposed to be about getting some recognition for the Female version of Commander Shepard but everyone seems to be fixated on the fact that Bioware's Jane Shapard is going to be blonde. She's a public face for FemShep, a marketing image to help sell Mass Effect to people who haven't bought in to the series yet. She doesn't replace anyone's Shepard, or make people's custom creations invalid and what she looks like doesn't matter one bit. She should be the focus not the colour of her hair.

And to go off on a slight tangent:

I was talking to one of the programmers at work today and he got on to FemShep and the whole facebook popularity contest and all the articles popping up about it. He then asked if I'd seen this video featuring loads of custom FemSheps (refering to Sage's awesome video), to which I got to reply; "Yeah I've seen that video. My Shepard's in it."

A pointless story perhaps, but I enjoyed it. I felt like Hrist was a bit of an internet star for a moment.

[Ottemis]

Have a Mako.

Modifié par Ottemis, 03 août 2011 - 07:07 .

[Captain Crash]

Akari Tenshi wrote...

I think Adneate has hit the nail on the head.

Adneate has a knack for posting stuff that make far too much sense!! 

Also this is bloody amazing!!!    :happy: 

f1r3storm wrote...

Jane Shepard by CELENG.

[Tup3x]

Wow! Am I seeing an 'splosion?

What I've noticed is that the women doesn't seem to think like how we men think they think.

Modifié par Tup3xi, 03 août 2011 - 07:38 .

[Chignon]

jwalker wrote...

Natalia is a beauty, jwalker. I always love seeing you post screenshots of her.

[Sialater]

adneate wrote...

Jack Stark wrote...
 It's just that, since Bioware's one of the few big companies I know who actually puts their money where their collective mouth is when it comes to various social equalities, I was hoping for a step that was a little further forward than this.

Again, I've got no personal beef with white blonde FemShep. Or white blonde women in real life, for that matter! I just wanted a FemShep that wasn't necessarily going to conform to stereotypes of accepted female beauty standards. It's tough to be a minority person and constantly get the message that, by and large, only the pretty white folks get to save the world, in movies and television and games. But while I'm disappointed about that, I'm still generally happy with Bioware. I like their games, and I like the people that make them. I think we can agree on that part, at least.

It seems like most people have totally lost the point of why anybody wanted something like this in the first place, it wasn't to make some statement against Western standards of beauty or start some media revolution. It was to make clear that the female Commander Shepard was just as valid an option as the male counterpart and others (both male and female) should try it. So that maybe others who didn't know about her could prehaps enjoy the character as much as we all do. Yet all this silly debate is only about is how she should look, as if in a game with a custom face creator that matters. She already has and will continue to look however you want her to be, and she can be as stereotypical or as unconventional as you feel she should be.

At the end of the day this marketing push isn't even really for people like us, we don't need to be sold on FemShep or Mass Effect. We already know about all that stuff, what we get out of it is tangentially related to the actual purpose of the material. We get to hear some great lines and see what our character's armour, weapons and animations are going to look like. Nobody here is going to go "Wow I should get this Mass Effect 3 and play as this Shepard woman, she's cool!", which is the primary purpose of anything coming out of the marketing department of EA / BioWare.

Rachel approves.

[100k]

Nyoka wrote...
Listen up people, this person will teach all of us what "the females" think and want.

Oh boy. Here we go...

See, dear females, yo're not supposed to be action protagonists. If a woman blows **** up and takes no prisoners, she's just being a man. That's not female stuff!

For the love of all that is good in this world-- THAT'S NOT WHAT I SAID! 

Gawd, what a load of crap.

Tomb Raider doesn't attract women because Lara Croft is a pair of huge walking ******. She's designed explicitly to give the boys a nice view while they shoot at things.

But I did say this. Just not in so many words. 

I haven't played the other games you mention, but your thinking Tomb Raider doesn't attract women because Lara is secretly a man is very telling.

Uhhh.... WHAT???????????????????????

Right, that's why only 13% of ME2 players used Sheploo, while 87% of them used either default Jane or a custom Shepard. Because men don't demand personalization. You make splendid sense!

You missed the point completely. YES! Men do like customization, and I'd be the first to admit that. 
-BUT-
To separate Mass Effect AS A SERIES from Halo, Gears of War, or any other space-marine-saves-the-galaxy, emphasizing the CC would be a HUUUUUUUUUUUGE help! Especially to the casual (majority) female audience looking for a title -- BECAUSE they will see that HERE is a game that can tailor to their preferences. 

Now, this may not apply to every one on the planet, people like options. 

(and before you come up with some retarded counter argument-- look at the woman in your avatar) 

The difference when it comes down to marketing between men and women gamers is that men will have a WIDE selection male protagonists with cliched -but comfortable- premises to relate And choose from. Blood. Violence. Sex. Action. These things are easy to put into games, and are easy to sell a game on! When the average male gamer sees a trailer for Mass Effect (featuring Vanderloo) he'll be more likely be interested in it, because (subconsciously) he is used to that kind of game. Same for it he sees Sheploo on the cover. Or in a magazine.

I AM NOT SAYING THAT WOMEN DON'T LIKE THESE THINGS. I NEVER SAID THAT. EVER. SO DON'T EVER BRING IT UP AGAIN.

But to SELL a game to casual female gamers -- gamers used to playing Sims, Farmville, etc, a marketing director should look at the history of what women gamers gravitate towards. 

I can see the impact games that offer choice had on women in the past and logically conclude that emphasizing choice -- while it may be great to men --  just as exciting to women. 

Sure, because women hate looking cool and blowing **** up.  That's not for the ladies, like the ones who post in this thread. The females enjoy things like sewing and cooking at home.

Enough. 

Oh, listen ladies, let's go shopping! We have plenty of choice in CLOTHING!!! Woohoo!! I can totally see the trailers for ME3: Sheploo shooting things and blowing **** up... followed by Femshep putting on the best party dresses for this season! Unfvckingbelievable.

Did you even see the video I posted? Or are you trolling as usual?

I know one thing Femshep will not accomplish. She will not be, ever, what you think "the females" are or should be.

The great thing about "The Many Faces of Femshep" trailer is that it shows the exact opposite of what you think I think women should be like. 

Now, before you reply back wildly like the last time we argued, really think about what I'm saying. Don't argue for the sake of argument. 

I'm not saying that women can't like shooting and blowing stuff up (be it by the hand of a man or woman).

What I am saying is that, in a male dominated industry saturated in shooting-and-blowing-stuff-up (be it by the hand of a man or woman), making your game stand out, especially to a new audience, means trying to work in something that makes your game unique -- in this case the CC.

:blush::blush:

[Ottemis]

Tup3xi wrote...

Wow! Am I seeing an 'splosion?

What I've noticed is that the women doesn't seem to think like how we men think they think.

^ *nods

[sagefic]

I was going to post the penny arcade awesomeness if no one else had, but I see i needn't have worried it was missed.

I those guys.

[Ottemis]

Speculated differences in male and female likes and dislikes in games are just those: speculations.
RL shows us that more often then not males and females differ asmuch they agree on subjects independent of gender. Making statements on the subject is unproductive (and sometimes volatile). Generalization in the sense of "some people like X while others like Y" works wonders.