42753 réponses à ce sujet

[CrazyRah]

All i can say is, yeah the Paragon/Renegade measurements are totally not working good at all. Everyone else have already said more then what i can say myself.

And to atleast throw some Femshep into my post

Modifié par CrazyRah, 19 novembre 2011 - 10:15 .

[We are]

Quick question guys, why do you feel femshep should be equal with manshep?

Let me start off by saying this is not a flame, this is a genuine inquiry, allow me to state my reasoning behind feeling that femshep should not be in trailers, cover art, etc.

First, the male shep is canon, and therefore is the star of the story and the universe revolves around him.
Not saying that femshep isnt a fun option to have available (i have made a few myself), but it really comes down to the fact that the main character is a male and the developers should treat it as such.
It's like me saying "Well i like turians so i feel i the main character should be a turian, regardless what species or gender the plot was written for"

Second, why? Should every form of media need to have a separate option for people who feel their race or gender was left out? I dont see people campaigning for a black or asian shep on the box art or even an ugly shep, after all why does every hero need to be an american eagle model?

Thanks for reading, looking forward to your answers.

(PS, ugly shep is so ugly everyone dies The End.)

[CrazyRah]

We are wrote...

Quick question guys, why do you feel femshep should be equal with manshep?

Let me start off by saying this is not a flame, this is a genuine inquiry, allow me to state my reasoning behind feeling that femshep should not be in trailers, cover art, etc.

First, the male shep is canon, and therefore is the star of the story and the universe revolves around him.
Not saying that femshep isnt a fun option to have available (i have made a few myself), but it really comes down to the fact that the main character is a male and the developers should treat it as such.
It's like me saying "Well i like turians so i feel i the main character should be a turian, regardless what species or gender the plot was written for"

Second, why? Should every form of media need to have a separate option for people who feel their race or gender was left out? I dont see people campaigning for a black or asian shep on the box art or even an ugly shep, after all why does every hero need to be an american eagle model?

Thanks for reading, looking forward to your answers.

(PS, ugly shep is so ugly everyone dies The End.)

Shepard might be male as default, canon is a different thing. The main character is last time i looked human, male or female is up to the player, some prefer male and other female. Bioware have stated that both are equally valid and they want to treat them equally and giving FemShep some attention and actually treat her as something valid is awesome!

If people started to campaign for a black or asian Shepard on the box art i wouldn't complain or say no. It's their wish to see it on the box and it's in the end Bioware that decided if they want to do it. This time they listened to the fans of FemShep and decided that she will be given attention.

Modifié par CrazyRah, 20 novembre 2011 - 01:07 .

[ADLegend21]

We are wrote...

Quick question guys, why do you feel femshep should be equal with manshep?

Becasue she's the guddamn Commander Shepard that's why!

[Silver]

ADLegend21 wrote...

We are wrote...

Quick question guys, why do you feel femshep should be equal with manshep?

Becasue she's the guddamn Commander Shepard that's why!

couldn't agree more

[ADLegend21]

We are wrote...

Quick question guys, why do you feel femshep should be equal with manshep?

Let me start off by saying this is not a flame, this is a genuine inquiry, allow me to state my reasoning behind feeling that femshep should not be in trailers, cover art, etc.

First, the male shep is canon, and therefore is the star of the story and the universe revolves around him.
Not saying that femshep isnt a fun option to have available (i have made a few myself), but it really comes down to the fact that the main character is a male and the developers should treat it as such.
It's like me saying "Well i like turians so i feel i the main character should be a turian, regardless what species or gender the plot was written for"

Second, why? Should every form of media need to have a separate option for people who feel their race or gender was left out? I dont see people campaigning for a black or asian shep on the box art or even an ugly shep, after all why does every hero need to be an american eagle model?

Thanks for reading, looking forward to your answers.

(PS, ugly shep is so ugly everyone dies The End.)

A serious answer. You're WRONG. Male Shepard is NOT canon. Bioware has said over and over that whatever Shepard you pop out of the CC is canon. Bioware needed a placeholder for commercials and demo's since you can't go faceless in 3rd person. that's the entire point of having customization. You determine the canon of the plot. Paragon renengade, Combat class, gender, appearance, armor and weapons, swuadmates, romances, it's all up to you. There are alot of people who only play one gender and they feel their gender should be represented because that's Mass effect to them and Biwoare listens to their fans. that's how I asked silverman for the femshep trailer in the first place because he wanted to know what fans wanted to see in the ME3 marketting campaign and that started the twitter tidal wave of asking for femshep in a trailer. we wanted femshep, we got femshep that;s how bioware rolls. so DEAL WITH IT.

[Cyansomnia]

The default John and Jane Shepard are faces for advertising. It's the same reason they created Garrett and Marian Hawke. I find it perfectly reasonable to have both sexes represented, as it informs potential buyers they have more than one choice when creating a character.

Now as for 'canon', that's different for each and every player. The choices we make and the character we develop is ours, therefore it's our own personal 'canon'. It's a large part of why I like this game.

[Lucky Thirteen]

Edit:

deal with it

Modifié par Lucky Thirteen, 20 novembre 2011 - 02:38 .

[meonlyred]

You know what I love about Mass Effect? How there is no actually canon, that neither male or female Shepard are the right or wrong faces of Sheaprd. I also like how her gender and face is completely left out in all other medias of the Mass Effect universe. Books, comics, etc. How only two faces will be used for marketing and nothing else.

I also love how this community is completely open and understanding when it comes to sharing our Shepard. We all understand that for each of us, we have our own individual idea what canon is and is not.

[We are]

Aislinn Trista wrote...

The default John and Jane Shepard are faces for advertising. It's the same reason they created Garrett and Marian Hawke. I find it perfectly reasonable to have both sexes represented, as it informs potential buyers they have more than one choice when creating a character.

Now as for 'canon', that's different for each and every player. The choices we make and the character we develop is ours, therefore it's our own personal 'canon'. It's a large part of why I like this game.

If Jane was so canon then why do you only have generic options for her face? Why isnt there a "good" detailed default as there is with James?

And as for the person telling me to "deal with it" why not represent both genders from the start then? If their intentions were to have a "equal" experience they would have done it without fans asking them to.

All im saying is a plot shouldnt be asexual, the story should have a clearly defined main character, i would love to see a game where the main char is a woman and that is the end of it, but i guess this is a good first step.

Side note, anyone sad this series is coming to an end? I hope they decide to make more games covering the backstories of some of the crew mates, i for one would love to kill the thresher maw as wrex in his rite

Thanks again guys!

[We are]

meonlyred wrote...

You know what I love about Mass Effect? How there is no actually canon, that neither male or female Shepard are the right or wrong faces of Sheaprd. I also like how her gender and face is completely left out in all other medias of the Mass Effect universe. Books, comics, etc. How only two faces will be used for marketing and nothing else.

I also love how this community is completely open and understanding when it comes to sharing our Shepard. We all understand that for each of us, we have our own individual idea what canon is and is not.

Yea i forgot.... in a way, we are ALL Shepard-commander....

[100k]

We are wrote...

Quick question guys, why do you feel femshep should be equal with manshep?

Well, I think that we need to redefine "equal", or at least elaborate on it's definition and application. 

No matter how I've spun it, Mass Effect = mShepard's game-- *slaps away you-know-who*

NO this is not a matter of my personal preference, it is 100% a matter of ME's ingame content. 

NO this is not a matter of women playing a "man's game". 

NO this is not me trying to stir up trouble (again) in the femshep thread.

In game content, LI options, body builds, motion capture, prevent mShep and femShep from being on the same qualitative level. Couple that with Sheploo being the "unofficial-official Shepard", and redShep being almost completely pushed to the side for (what I guess will be) a last minute and very short debut, and I doubt femShep will ever be on mShep's level. Oh, she's definitely just as important to me, but unfortunately, marketing and BW doesn't really seem too concerned with how I, or other femshep fans feel. This is not the fault of me, but it is the fault of BW for not feeling that it is necessary to take the time to try to strive for true gender equality in their games. ME3 should change that.

If this is a more personal question about actions of the genders respectively, then I have no true answer. In my opinon, women aren't equal to men (in general), and men aren't equal to women (in general). The genders are historically, physically, and socially held to different standards. In general, women DO think, act, and feel different from men, and this can be backed up by thousands of papers, studies, research, etc. 

I guess what I'm trying to say, is that I don't want femShep "equal" to mShep, because I feel that "equal" too often means "does the same thing that he does in every way". I want her to be able to do the same things as mShep, but in ways that respect and celebrate her gender. If this means that mShep punches Kai Leng off a ledge, and femShep kicks Kai Leng off a ledge, then I feel that little differences like that are welcome, approriate, and not discriminating. Similarly, if mShep breaks his arm at some point in ME3 and gives a cry of pain, and femShep breaks her arm at some point in ME3, and just grits her teeth, I feel that this is another great example of gender equality. 

(then again, I want there to be a similar system for the combat classes too, but I understand the huge amount of work that'll go into this)

[ADLegend21]

We are wrote...

All im saying is a plot shouldnt be asexual, the story should have a clearly defined main character, i would love to see a game where the main char is a woman and that is the end of it, but i guess this is a good first step.

asexual isn't the right word. life is for both genders and so are video games. That's how our species is and since video games are a creation of our species it's for both genders too. again Deal with it.

[Lucky Thirteen]

We are wrote...
And as for the person telling me to "deal with it" why not represent both genders from the start then? If their intentions were to have a "equal" experience they would have done it without fans asking them to

Originally Shepard was a masked, unknown person in armor. Advertising decided to create a face for advertising, so they went male considering the audience they wanted to appeal to was dominant male. Now that times have changed, with a big increase of female interest in gaming and the fact there is a lot of female players for the ME series, creating a female version of Shepard for advertising would be wise to attract more female buyers.  Logically as males can relate more to males, females can relate more to females. For Bioware and EA it's about making money, not equality.

For many femShep fans it's about recognition for our favorite heroine and letting the world know she exists. Not equality.

Besides, women who seek to be equal to men, lack ambition.

[meonlyred]

James? Who is James? You mean John Shepard? The default name assigned to Sheploo?

Also clearly you need to look up canon and default.
Canon: noun
3. The body of rules, principles, or standards accepted as axiomatic and universally binding in a field of study or art: the neoclassical canon.
4. A fundamental principle or general rule: the canons of good behavior.
5. A standard; criterion: the canons of taste.

Default: noun
5. a : a selection made usually automatically or without active consideration due to lack of a viable alternative: remained the club's president by default
b : a selection automatically used by a computer program in the absence of a choice made by the user

Mass Effect has no canon. It only has a DEFAULT male or female Shepard.

I find it so interesting that the Femshep community never trolls, it never pokes. Yet others feel compelled to come there and try and defend their e-manhood. Go figure...

[Blze001]

We are wrote...

And as for the person telling me to "deal with it" why not represent both genders from the start then? If their intentions were to have a "equal" experience they would have done it without fans asking them to.

Allow me to share a concept with you. This concept is called "fan feedback". You see, when a developer actually cares about the people who buy their games, they make changes and concessions when they see a large percentage of thier players pining for a change.

BioWare, being one of said companies, observed the large percentage of people who prefer FemShep and made the logical marketing decision of "Hey, there are alot of people who like the female option, maybe we should include her more." This is what is known in many circles as a "good business decision".

As for canon, sure. John Shepard, Earthborn, Sole Survivor, Collector Base Destroyer is canon........according to BioWare. However, BioWare also implements this small concept called "choice", which allows each person to make their own decisions. If you want John Shepard to be your canon, have fun! Go for it! No one is going to stop you.

But if you're going to come in here and try to "correct" those of us with different canons, allow me to put this a poetically as possible through the magic of haiku:

You want to correct
Those of us who play as FemShep
Please GTFO

Modifié par Blze001, 20 novembre 2011 - 03:06 .

[100k]

Blze001 wrote...

As for canon, sure. John Shepard, Earthborn, Sole Survivor, Collector Base Destroyer is canon........according to BioWare. However, BioWare also implements this small concept called "choice", which allows each person to make their own decisions. If you want John Shepard to be your canon, have fun! Go for it! No one is going to stop you.

I agree with you, and with the recent reveal of Action Mode, I think its safe to say that John definitely is the permanent canon.

[SaturnRing]

Like most of you are saying Sheploo was never meant to be "the" commander Shepard. The main reason they brought him on board was advertisement. The game is designed to be molded around any gender. 

Modifié par SaturnRing, 20 novembre 2011 - 04:09 .

[JamieCOTC]

We are wrote...

meonlyred wrote...

You know what I love about Mass Effect? How there is no actually canon, that neither male or female Shepard are the right or wrong faces of Sheaprd. I also like how her gender and face is completely left out in all other medias of the Mass Effect universe. Books, comics, etc. How only two faces will be used for marketing and nothing else.

I also love how this community is completely open and understanding when it comes to sharing our Shepard. We all understand that for each of us, we have our own individual idea what canon is and is not.

Yea i forgot.... in a way, we are ALL Shepard-commander....

I just wrote a rathery lengthy reply to this question, but didn't see this.  I think Red summed it up the best.  There is no canon Shepard ... but what about cannon Shepard?

[Interactive Civilian]

JamieCOTC wrote...

I just wrote a rathery lengthy reply to this question, but didn't see this.  I think Red summed it up the best.  There is no canon Shepard ... but what about cannon Shepard?

http://jamiecotc.com...shep/cannon.jpg

Hear hear!

http://cloud.steampo...2B8F0150ACDEAC/

Or, if anyone has a problem with the Widow being called a cannon, we can always go Carnifex.

http://cloud.steampo...81D2E1B36BF7E7/

[100k]

Interactive Civilian wrote...

http://cloud.steampo...81D2E1B36BF7E7/

This. Is. The. Most. Badass. Angle. Ever.

[Interactive Civilian]

100k wrote...

This. Is. The. Most. Badass. Angle. Ever.

Thanks. Yeah, aside from the flames being low-res, I was really happy with how that shot came out. I'd paused and flown around a bit with flycam to try to find a good angle there (well, one better or at least different and as good as the standard cutscene one, which is my avatar). I only found two other decent ones I liked, but so as not to pic-spam, you can see them here and here. But, the one I posted is the one I felt was the best.

Thanks for the compliment.

[Lianna sFfalenn]

JamieCOTC wrote...

I just wrote a rathery lengthy reply to this question, but didn't see this.  I think Red summed it up the best.  There is no canon Shepard ... but what about cannon Shepard?

Even adepts can get behind that notion.



As an aside, I have a question for those who mod...do you know of any texture improvement mods for hair in ME2? I have googled, but either there isn't anything or my search terms aren't good enough. I'm really noticing now with the skin and eye mods I've got that the hair just isn't up to much by comparison. If there's nothing then I guess I'll have to wait until ME3, but thought I'd ask!

[Chignon]

meonlyred wrote...

You know what I love about Mass Effect? How there is no actually canon, that neither male or female Shepard are the right or wrong faces of Sheaprd. I also like how her gender and face is completely left out in all other medias of the Mass Effect universe. Books, comics, etc. How only two faces will be used for marketing and nothing else.

I also love how this community is completely open and understanding when it comes to sharing our Shepard. We all understand that for each of us, we have our own individual idea what canon is and is not.

Great post, Red!

[ELE08]

100k wrote...

We are wrote...

Quick question guys, why do you feel femshep should be equal with manshep?

Well, I think that we need to redefine "equal", or at least elaborate on it's definition and application. 

No matter how I've spun it, Mass Effect = mShepard's game-- *slaps away you-know-who*

NO this is not a matter of my personal preference, it is 100% a matter of ME's ingame content. 

NO this is not a matter of women playing a "man's game". 

NO this is not me trying to stir up trouble (again) in the femshep thread.

In game content, LI options, body builds, motion capture, prevent mShep and femShep from being on the same qualitative level. Couple that with Sheploo being the "unofficial-official Shepard", and redShep being almost completely pushed to the side for (what I guess will be) a last minute and very short debut, and I doubt femShep will ever be on mShep's level. Oh, she's definitely just as important to me, but unfortunately, marketing and BW doesn't really seem too concerned with how I, or other femshep fans feel. This is not the fault of me, but it is the fault of BW for not feeling that it is necessary to take the time to try to strive for true gender equality in their games. ME3 should change that.

If this is a more personal question about actions of the genders respectively, then I have no true answer. In my opinon, women aren't equal to men (in general), and men aren't equal to women (in general). The genders are historically, physically, and socially held to different standards. In general, women DO think, act, and feel different from men, and this can be backed up by thousands of papers, studies, research, etc. 

I guess what I'm trying to say, is that I don't want femShep "equal" to mShep, because I feel that "equal" too often means "does the same thing that he does in every way". I want her to be able to do the same things as mShep, but in ways that respect and celebrate her gender. If this means that mShep punches Kai Leng off a ledge, and femShep kicks Kai Leng off a ledge, then I feel that little differences like that are welcome, approriate, and not discriminating. Similarly, if mShep breaks his arm at some point in ME3 and gives a cry of pain, and femShep breaks her arm at some point in ME3, and just grits her teeth, I feel that this is another great example of gender equality. 

(then again, I want there to be a similar system for the combat classes too, but I understand the huge amount of work that'll go into this)

I see your point, but it's a slippery slope.  Are we talking averages here?  In which case, yeah the genders are different.  But there are always those individuals that fall outside the bell curve.  For example, there are physically strong women and physically weak men.  Is the strongest man in a population going to be stronger than the strongest women in a population? Yeah, probably.  But we're talking extremes, among the group strength levels are going to vary regardless of gender.  Same goes for any other normative gender traits.

Do we trust Bioware to implement any sort of gender differences beyond superficial details [like animations that fit her frame, or femshep occasionally getting skeezed on, see: Harkin] without getting insulting?  I'm not sure.  The idea of femshep getting even more booblicious armor and a pink seduce dialogue option is a little scary.  Sorry femshep, you don't get to punch the Yahg, go hang out in the corner until we find someone with more upper body strength.  Okay, that's an exaggeration, but not an opinion I haven't seen around the BSN.

"I want her to be able to do the same things as mShep, but in ways that respect and celebrate her gender."  
The opinion is noble, and I don't disagree with it, problem is what those things are for one person aren't necessarily for another.

I like the idea that femshep and manshep are different, execution of that principle...would be problematic.  I also kind of feel like, who cares about realism in RPGs.  If I want to play a female character who relies on brute force and can beat up everyone in the room, or a male character who talks his way out of everything but couldn't punch a guy out to save his life--I want the option.  RPGs, for me personally, are about escapism, choice, and doing what you can't do in real life.

TLDR; I agree with you 100, that there are gender differences in real life.  I don't think it will ever be feasible to implement something like this in an RPG like Mass Effect without being extremely limiting to character customization or insulting to a lot of people.

We are wrote...
It's like me saying "Well i like turians so i feel i the main character should be a turian, regardless what species or gender the plot was written for"

This is not exactly an accurate analogy.  Mass Effect wasn't written for a turian, nor was it written for a man as is implied in your statement.  There are two viable options actually in-game: male human and female human.

In response to the first question, why do I think femshep should get equal treatment as manshep?  Because it's not male Shepard's story, it's just SHEPARD'S story.  Sheploo is their default poster boy, but he's not canon.  As others have said more eloquently, there is no canon, Shepard is who we make him or her.  Femshep gets the lower quality default, inferior textures, hand me down animations, and until now little to no marketing, not because she's the inferior option, but because Bioware made her that way.  That's on Bioware.  There are two voice actors for Shep in Mass Effect, two versions of all the armors, etc etc etc.  Why only showcase 50%?