42753 réponses à ce sujet

[Tup3x]

You summed it all pretty nicely, Red. That's pretty much what I think too and I agree with you.

EDIT:
TopShep

Modifié par Tup3xi, 30 novembre 2011 - 06:07 .

[ADLegend21]

100k wrote...



They aren't forced on the player, because Kelly can ask Shepard what her relationship is with Garrus and Tali, and Shepard can choose whether they're friends, crushes, professionals, or alien coworkers. 

Well what did you expect him to do after saving the galaxy with Shepard? Go back to C-Sec and push papers? He went to Omega to help the poor and unfortunate, did good work, then his team  was butchered. Its not his fault that Shepard showed up. Shepard was looking for Archangel. 

Meh. A writing inconsistency. It was pretty difficult for most players to avoid talking to Garrus, until after they knew they didn't HAVE to talk to him. Most did anyways because he's a total bro.

I suppose that's true.

Kelly can ask alot of stuff but it doesn't seem to stick I've taken the "She's not my friend" option for Tali and I still have to turn her down if I talk to her enough. You're right Shepard was looking for Archangel, not Garrus. Garrus happened to be archangel, there's no dossier for garrus, it's a surprise recruitment. I also don't think it's a coincidence that the VS Who by probability is Sheaprd's ME1 Romance isn't in the game but 5 minutes and letter if romanced, but tali and Garrus are all over the place in ME2. It's odd that the SHADOW BROKER who Liara admits has top level acces to two council governments and gets trade secrets from female salarians (the real political muscle of the species) but he couldn't get a dossier on an Operations Chief or staff Commander. It's made to look like Tali and Garrus are your most faithful friends because their lives have gone to hell while the other ME1 squaddies lvoes have not. Wrex is firmly leading clan Urdnot and the rest of the Krogan, Liara's an information broker that becomes the Shadow Broker and the VS is getting Spectre training apparently as they are spectre's in ME3. Garrus has his team but we know what happens and Tali leads two mission with incredibly high fatality rates and she eventually gives up to rejoin Shepard. That's why they're back on the Normandy. Tehir suicide mission specialties are covered by other, possibly more qualified, teammates in Legion and Kasumi for door hacking and Miranda and Jacob for fire team leading. adn then comes Chris Preistly sayying Tali is a squadmate in ME3 because the commuity begged for it while she wasn't going to be originally. It's seems like a popularity contest determines the "faithfulness" of your squadmates. Guess that explains some of the stuff in the spoilers.

[meonlyred]

silverhammer08 wrote...

btw Red, it's "Gabby" and not "Gaddy"

Yeah my dyslexia is showing again...

...fixed.

@AD, before you lost all hope, let's try to be more positive and wait for ME3. You are at least a fan of the VS that is kept most of the time. People hate Kaidan. But I still find a way to remain positive about it. I'll worry about burning Bioware to the ground if they mess up him in ME3 when March finally rolls around.

About the VS not being in ME2, imagine if they had... How many people would set up the game to kill them? For ME2 the VS has the same plot armor as Liara. Be glad for that. The Virmire survivor. can. not. be. killed. You can't say that about Tali or Garrus. That clearly shows bioware needs the VS for something special in the plot for ME3. Something only they can do.

I was almost more than a little disappointed that there was nothing about Ashley or Kaidan in the Shadow Broker's dossiers. But maybe there is a reason for that. We don't know yet. ME2 suffers greatly for being the middle child. Its the midway point of the story, the Empire Strikes Back of the Mass Effect story. Shepard gets her hand cut off and the VS is frozen in carbonite. Everything is up in the air.

I know it sucks but we have to wait and see.

Modifié par meonlyred, 30 novembre 2011 - 06:10 .

[ADLegend21]

meonlyred wrote...


@AD, before you lost all hope, let's try to be more positive and wait for ME3. You are at least a fan of the VS that is kept most of the time. People hate Kaidan. But I still find a way to remain positive about it. I'll worry about burning Bioware to the ground if they mess up him in ME3 when March finally rolls around.

About the VS not being in ME2, imagine if they had... How many people would set up the game to kill them? For ME2 the VS has the same plot armor as Liara. Be glad for that. The Virmire survivor. can. not. be. killed. You can't say that about Tali or Garrus. That clearly shows bioware needs the VS for something special in the plot for ME3. Something only they can do.

I was almost more than a little disappointed that there was nothing about Ashley or Kaidan in the Shadow Broker's dossiers. But maybe there is a reason for that. We don't know yet. ME2 suffers greatly for being the middle child. Its the midway point of the story, the Empire Strikes Back of the Mass Effect story. Shepard gets her hand cut off and the VS is frozen in carbonite. Everything is up in the air.

I know it sucks but we have to wait and see.

Arrival. Liara's in ME2 as a TEMPORARY squaddie. They could ahve done the same thing with Ashley/Kaidan. I've said it since it cameout Arrival would not have the ehat it does if the VS was the one to rescue Shepard. Shep gets knocked out and wakes up as guards are getting obliterated Enter Ashley/Kaidan to save the day in their spectre gear and they get a reunion scene like Liara did with Romance continuation like Liara got. Did they? nope. Instead there's what I consider a jab at the Ashmancers because there's a "They killed Williams!" line in there. My Ashmancing Sheps flinch at that before they continue their Mary sue Rampage through the facility to stop Kenson.

oh it's something "special" in the plot alright.

I still find it the shadow Broker rather useless since He could hack the mail of an alliance admiral and the councilor for humanity but got nothing on the VS's activity. I wis I could revive him just to tell him how much he sucked at his job for not having info on the VS.

Kallen: you suck you piece of crap! All this knowledge and you can't tell me about Ashley's life for the past 3 years? What's your purpose? You're the only one of  your species that made it into space and you're garbage! My mother has more info on Ashley than you do, hell my body does to if you know what I mean. you're pathetic and a shame to all organic life in the history of the universe!
Yagh:.... I'm sorry okay!

[JamieCOTC]

Aislinn Trista wrote...

Kyrene wrote...

So my question then:
Do any of your Shepards start having a life of their own in this kind of sense, where they somehow just break away from what you thought they would turn out like? Do you love them more or less for it?

Oh, yes!  This has happened to me quite a few times.  I'll make a FemShep with every intention of playing them a certain way, then they turn out completely different.

Moira is the biggest one I can think of.  She developed into this attention-grabbing un-apologetic bad girl, who became one of my most interesting and complex characters to date.  Others have swung between alignments wildly. I find the more I play each of my FemSheps, the better defined they become.

I honestly love how they turn out in the end.  It makes me feel like they are all unique.  The unpredictability of it is part of the fun.

BTW, inspired by Sbarge's reading... I decided to write a small fic:

RE: About Horizon

Good job Ais.  I could so hear JH speaking those words. 

[meonlyred]

ADLegend21 wrote...
Arrival. Liara's in ME2 as a TEMPORARY squaddie. They could ahve done the same thing with Ashley/Kaidan. I've said it since it cameout Arrival would not have the ehat it does if the VS was the one to rescue Shepard. Shep gets knocked out and wakes up as guards are getting obliterated Enter Ashley/Kaidan to save the day in their spectre gear and they get a reunion scene like Liara did with Romance continuation like Liara got. Did they? nope. Instead there's what I consider a jab at the Ashmancers because there's a "They killed Williams!" line in there. My Ashmancing Sheps flinch at that before they continue their Mary sue Rampage through the facility to stop Kenson.

oh it's something "special" in the plot alright.

I still find it the shadow Broker rather useless since He could hack the mail of an alliance admiral and the councilor for humanity but got nothing on the VS's activity. I wis I could revive him just to tell him how much he sucked at his job for not having info on the VS.

Kallen: you suck you piece of crap! All this knowledge and you can't tell me about Ashley's life for the past 3 years? What's your purpose? You're the only one of  your species that made it into space and you're garbage! My mother has more info on Ashley than you do, hell my body does to if you know what I mean. you're pathetic and a shame to all organic life in the history of the universe!
Yagh:.... I'm sorry okay!

I still believe that most of those spoilers are completely and total bull. I haven't read them, I don't need to read them, and you shouldn't have read them either. They have said that those spoilers were from a early daft. I have early dafts of stuff that will never see the light of day because of some reason or another. Did you know JK Rowling was thinking about killing Ron halfway through the book? I'm sure the writers of ME3 thought of some pretty bad things before they threw those ideas away. And wtf ever has you so worked up is probably simply one of many opinions and might not even be part of mine or your game.

Again, there might not have been any dossier on Kaidan and/or Ashley because Bioware doesn't want us to know about.

And truth be told I was actually happy that the VS was not in Arrival. I would much rather Zody have a huge epic reunion with Kaidan in ME3 than something short and brief in something as semi unimportant as a DLC. I rather see it in the main storyline than sometime I may or may not buy. I like things to have value and not something wraped and kicked out the door to shove the plot along.

[CrazyRah]

I agree with Red, i'm so much more happy that the reunion with the VS is in ME3 then just tossed into a DLC that was needed to push the plot in a direction. Something as big as the reunion between the VS and Shepard get more room in ME3 then in a DLC that tends to be not that super detailed.

Still i would've prefered something about the VS, heck just a random list on what they bought in a store would've been better. Shadow Broker i am not happy ^^

[Silver]

Am I reading this right Adam that you are still, after all this time, pissed about the VS not having a larger role in ME2 and that it is left ambigous what role he/she has in ME3 ?

If yes: Isn't that a bit extreme ?

(Do correct me if i'm wrong, no offense intended here)

[ADLegend21]

meonlyred wrote...
I still believe that most of those spoilers are completely and total bull. I haven't read them, I don't need to read them, and you shouldn't have read them either. They have said that those spoilers were from a early daft. I have early dafts of stuff that will never see the light of day because of some reason or another. Did you know JK Rowling was thinking about killing Ron halfway through the book? I'm sure the writers of ME3 thought of some pretty bad things before they threw those ideas away. And wtf ever has you so worked up is probably simply one of many opinions and might not even be part of mine or your game.

Again, there might not have been any dossier on Kaidan and/or Ashley because Bioware doesn't want us to know about.

And truth be told I was actually happy that the VS was not in Arrival. I would much rather Zody have a huge epic reunion with Kaidan in ME3 than something short and brief in something as semi unimportant as a DLC. I rather see it in the main storyline than sometime I may or may not buy. I like things to have value and not something wraped and kicked out the door to shove the plot along.

I doubt that. There has to be some truth to the things the leak contains I don't care how much bioware says has changed one of the 50 bajillion things about the VS I saw has to be true. Bioware's talking about emotionally engaging and then saying all these negative things cn be emotions. It's like the doctor telling you the shot you're about to recieve "won't hurt a bit" then the needle hits a bone or something and it's agonizing. and it's not just the VS too, it's other characters. I'd say someone on the BSN wrote it but you won't find anyone that dedicated to trolling to write a thousand page doccument of choices and possible outcomes.

There's also no merchandise for Ashley and Kaidan in the bioware store to go with the nonexistent dossier in the Shadow Broker's network. While certain characters practically line the walls of the bioware store with their stuff. It's sad that WILSON of all characers has a bigger role than the VS in ME2 and Wilson doesn't make it off lazarus station.

I'd have prefered ANYTHING in Me2 past Horizon for the VS, Arrival was hte perfect chance for bioware to A) give the other two ME1 LI's something special and B.) take Shepard down a peg since we all want her to be less of a mary sue.

as it seems that Garrus and Tali get forced ON the player it seems like the VS is getting forced AWAY from the players. Even if the spoilers have changed, the fact that they THOUGHT to have them do that stuns me.

[ADLegend21]

silverhammer08 wrote...

Am I reading this right Adam that you are still, after all this time, pissed about the VS not having a larger role in ME2 and that it is left ambigous what role he/she has in ME3 ?

If yes: Isn't that a bit extreme ?

(Do correct me if i'm wrong, no offense intended here)

I've seen the role the VS has in ME3 somewhat in the spoilers. Let's just say Kallen Shepard is Not happy with the treatment of the second humans Spectre's.

[Silver]

i'm sorry to say this, but spoilers are called spoilers for a specific reason.
Hence me not reading them.
I know that it's tempting to know a bit beforehand, but is it really worth it spoiling all the fun for yourself ?

[ADLegend21]

silverhammer08 wrote...

i'm sorry to say this, but spoilers are called spoilers for a specific reason.
Hence me not reading them.
I know that it's tempting to know a bit beforehand, but is it really worth it spoiling all the fun for yourself ?

Rather know now then to just be sitting at my TV crying my eyes out because it blindsided me like an invisible 18 wheeler on the highway. though it's gonna blindside Kallen if it stayed in the game. I feel so bad for her.

[Gespenst]

Everyone else wrote...

I wrote...

Femshep is short

No she isn't

Are you sure...? I could have sworn she always looked shorter than the people around her in cutsceens... maybe it was a trick of the light or something.

ADLegend21 wrote...

I still find it the shadow Broker rather useless since He could hack the mail of an alliance admiral and the councilor for humanity but got nothing on the VS's activity. I wis I could revive him just to tell him how much he sucked at his job for not having info on the VS!

Maybe he didn't try? I imagine that a random Lieutenant/Gunnery Chief is a lot lower on his list of targets than, say, one of the four most powerful people in the galaxy, no matter their previous associations. And at the time of ME2 their activities consist of failing to switch on a gun.

[meonlyred]

Gespenst wrote...
Are you sure...? I could have sworn she always looked shorter than the people around her in cutsceens... maybe it was a trick of the light or something.

100% sure. There is only a few body models in the game. To save time and money develops only make so many models and just interchange the head models.

[Gespenst]

...I swear she looks shorter than everyone else in those shots. 

[ADLegend21]

Gespenst wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

I still find it the shadow Broker rather useless since He could hack the mail of an alliance admiral and the councilor for humanity but got nothing on the VS's activity. I wis I could revive him just to tell him how much he sucked at his job for not having info on the VS!

Maybe he didn't try? I imagine that a random Lieutenant/Gunnery Chief is a lot lower on his list of targets than, say, one of the four most powerful people in the galaxy, no matter their previous associations. And at the time of ME2 their activities consist of failing to switch on a gun.

HE saw fit to hack Baliey's stuff and Baliey is C-Sec. same with Elias Kehlam's attournrey. WHO GIVES  CRAP ABOUT THAT GUY I WANNA KNOW ABOUT ASHLEY AND KAIDAN DAMMIT!
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

[CrazyRah]

Gespenst wrote...

...I swear she looks shorter than everyone else in those shots. 

Hehe you sure you're not seeing things?
She's as it's been said before, normal size

[FireEye]

Gespenst wrote...
Maybe he didn't try? I imagine that a random Lieutenant/Gunnery Chief is a lot lower on his list of targets than, say, one of the four most powerful people in the galaxy, no matter their previous associations. And at the time of ME2 their activities consist of failing to switch on a gun.

Considering the SB's motivation was surviving the Reaper invasion, you'd think he'd be interested in the people who took Sovereign down and was investigating Reapers for the Alliance, no matter how small their role or leads.

[ADLegend21]

FireEye wrote...

Gespenst wrote...
Maybe he didn't try? I imagine that a random Lieutenant/Gunnery Chief is a lot lower on his list of targets than, say, one of the four most powerful people in the galaxy, no matter their previous associations. And at the time of ME2 their activities consist of failing to switch on a gun.

Considering the SB's motivation was surviving the Reaper invasion, you'd think he'd be interested in the people who took Sovereign down and was investigating Reapers for the Alliance, no matter how small their role or leads.

^this.

[Interactive Civilian]

SaturnRing wrote...

NanQuan wrote...

Kyrene wrote...

SaturnRing wrote...

That's the trap i always fall into: chronologically it has to make sense to me.

For me, the only order that ever really made sense was Feros -> Therum -> Virmire -> Noveria -> Ilos.

My reasoning is this. When you get to Noveria (no matter what order you were playing), you discover that Benezia has *just* sent Saren the location of the Mu Relay. Now, the only reason for Saren to be looking for the Mu Relay is if he already knows that he needs to get to Ilos, which means he had to have got the Cypher and then understood the message from the beacon on Virmire. That being the case, as he got the last piece of the puzzle, he'd go immediately to Ilos. He wouldn't wait around for Shepard to catch up to him on Virmire.

My reading of it, and how I played it with Artemis is this (and when I say Saren, I'm also implying Sovereign, as he was largely controlling Saren): Saren's base of operations is on Virmire, and that is where he got the first inkling of the Prothean's plan, from the beacon there. Then he made his first mistake: he thought the message from the beacon was incomplete and so needed to find another beacon to make sense of it. He heard of the discovery of the beacon on Eden Prime and launched his attack there. He got to the beacon and discovered that having another one didn't really help him understand his visions. He set out to destroy it, so none could follow him, thus starting the events of ME1. He then set out to search for more Prothean artifacts, and thus attacked Feros while Shepard was on the Citadel uncovering his treason. On Feros, he got the cypher, and thus able to understand his visions from the beacon, discovered he needed to get to Ilos. So, now his search changed from Prothean artefacts to the Mu Relay. That's what he's doing while the following happens.

From Shepard's point of view. As she was leaving the Citadel, the only real choice (to me) is between going to Feros or to Therum (you *could* go to Noveria, but then the story doesn't make sense to me; yes, this is metagaming a bit). Feros is under attack, and Therum has what at this point could be considered either a source of information or a piece of leverage over Benezia. To Artemis, being under attack seemed the more urgent of the two, so she went to Feros, and thus gained the cypher. However, it didn't really help her understand her visions. Now, after that, her only real lead is Therum. She gets Liara there, and finds out that though with Liara's help the visions can be understood, but there isn't enough information. So, again, she's without a lead (metagaming, so not counting Noveria yet). However, the council informs her that there may be a situation on Virmire right at that point, and the logical thing is to go immediately. We all know what happens on Virmire.

Now, however, the loss is more poignant, because Shepard has to spend more time trying to deal with it before things get too crazy.

Now, it's time for Noveria. Pretty much as Shepard is arriving, Benezia is informing Saren. Finally having all information, he can head for Ilos, though something has to delay him. Perhaps, despite having the location of the Mu Relay, it still took him some time to get there. Or, perhaps even better, it took time scanning or exploring Ilos to find the location of the Conduit on its surface.

Meanwhile Shepard does her thing on the Citadel and then heads after Saren, thus arriving just as he is entering the complex which contains the Conduit.

That is the only way the timing makes sense for me. I just can't see him waiting around after he discovers the location of the Mu Relay, because the only reason he'd have to even look for it is if he already had all of the other information he needed. I suppose it is possible (and I'm sure many of you can) to argue doing Virmire after Noveria and just happening to catch Saren with his pants down before he left for Ilos, but for Artemis, the flow of her story works better with the way I've outlined it.

YMMV.

[SaturnRing]

To me Feros - Therum - Noveria - Virmire - I find it possible for Saren to have to delay Ilos until Vimire facility produces enough Krogan clones to mount an attack;meanwhile throwing Geth at her. Stealing the Normandy would have made it almost impossible for Shepard to operate on Noveria as a Spectre.

As for her being shorter...who knows with Cerberus upgrades. Like someone mention on this thread if TIM wasn't so much preocupied by his booze and cigarettes. Shep looks good; no thanks to him.

Modifié par SaturnRing, 01 décembre 2011 - 04:45 .

[SaturnRing]

I agree that the SB was a big disappointment: it went from a mysterious group of enigmatic traders to a careless Yagh that let Shepard board his ship; and then hoped to survive the subsequent confrontation. It took so little from Liara to set him off ...
There's always gonna be little things we perveive as inconsistencies until ME 3 comes out and reavel the plot behind it ( like Meonlyred wrote ); let's  wait for March.

Modifié par SaturnRing, 01 décembre 2011 - 04:28 .

[Interactive Civilian]

SaturnRing wrote...

To me Feros - Therum - Noveria - Virmire - I find it possible for Saren to have to delay Ilos until Vimire facility produces enough Krogan clones to mount an attack. Stealing the Normandy would have made it almost impossible for Shepard to operate on Noveria as a Spectre.

However, stealing the Normandy only happens after you have done all 4 of Feros, Therum, Noveria, and Virmire, no matter the order you do them in. Shepard doesn't get recalled to the Citadel until all of Saren's plan is discovered. So, that argument is moot.

However, the desire to build up a larger Krogan army before his departure is a reasonable idea. I don't agree with it for Artemis's story, but it does work. In Artemis's story, things are more rushed and urgent because Sovereign becomes aware of Shepard earlier, and while Sovereign doesn't really see Shepard as much of a threat at first, the fact that she makes Saren doubt himself and then gets away from Virmire is enough to push him into accelerating things so that Shepard can't catch up and ruin things. This, of course, failed, but for Artemis's story, it adds to why Saren would leave for Ilos immediately after discovering the location of the Mu Relay. The interval while Shepard was on the Citadel and then stealing the Normandy** was spent searching Ilos for the facility for the Conduit (the more I've thought of this since my previous post, the more I like it, so it is now officially part of Artemis's story).

** I admit that between leaving the Citadel and going to Ilos, I also do the Rachni side missions. In the game, this happens to Artemis after leaving the Citadel, but in my head canon, she does this between Noveria and being recalled to the Citadel. While those things happen right after each other in the game, I like to think the the council took some time to debate and deliberate what to do after receiving the final piece of information.

Or something... I don't quite know how to work it out and have it make sense. It seems to me that there should be no time for side-missions after Noveria, because logically the Mu Relay is the last piece of the puzzle for Saren, but on the other hand, you can only get the Rachni missions (and yet another opportunity to foil Cerberus plans a little) after dealing with Rachni on Noveria. I don't like to ignore the Rachni missions, because Artemis is firmly anti-Cerberus.

Maybe I can rationalize it to being something she does *after* defeating Saren and saving the Citadel, even though the game doesn't give you the opportunity to play it that way.

Modifié par Interactive Civilian, 01 décembre 2011 - 04:48 .

[khevan]

I am completely with Interactive Civilian on this one.

Feros > Therum > Virmire > Noveria > Ilos/Citadel Endgame.

For much the same reasons, actually, but I've come up with in-game reasons to save Noveria for later, so it's based on metagaming, but it's not totally metagaming. *heh*

Feros is under attack, and that takes priority, so saving the colony and gaining the Cypher come first. Ok, now Shepard's got the cypher, but her Prothean visions still don't make any damned sense, so she figures she'll look up the Prothean expert. Thus, Therum comes next. After this, the council sends you a fairly urgent sounding info-dump about Virmire, so that takes priority over possible geth sightings near Noveria, so Virmire's next. (::sadface: Of course, now Shepard has a better understanding of what the situation is, and a fuller knowledge of Sovereign and Saren's plans, but still hasn't enough clues to follow Saren. The only lead she has now is Noveria, and Benezia. This nets her the Mu Relay location, and the rest is history.

As far as the timing goes, I am 100% with Interactive Civilian. It makes sense (to me) for Shepard to follow Saren as he heads towards the Mu Relay, since that is the "logical" last piece of the puzzle. You have the visions, you have the Cypher, you know where you need to go...you just need to know how to get there.

On the purely metagaming side of things, it makes more sense for there to be more time between Shepard's confrontation with Saren on Virmire and the final confrontation on the Citadel. Saren makes mention of the fact that Sovereign has upgraded him, and that's kinda intensive surgery type stuff. It makes sense for there to be some time after Virmire for the procedures to take place, instead of Virmire > Ilos.

Just my opinion, but I wanted to weigh in on the subject.

[ADLegend21]

I wrote this for Meonlyred as part of an art trade. Read it!

Tiny Spectre by Freshman 19