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[JamieCOTC]

The Gender Gap - Game Informer article on females in gaming.

I know this is old, and only barely mentions Shepard, but it is an interesting and very indepth article on female protagonists is gaming.

[upsettingshorts]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

We are not militant after all? That's a disappointment.

I give up. Serves me right for trying to make a nuanced observation on the internet.

JamieCOTC wrote...

The Gender Gap - Game Informer article on females in gaming.

I know this is old, and only barely mentions Shepard, but it is an interesting and very indepth article on female protagonists is gaming.

I'm half doing a paper and half reading the article, I enjoyed it but it seems their arguments could apply to almost all popular media.  To put it bluntly and rather tellingly men are often the protagonists and women are the arm candy, or whatever.  The problem is that gaming seems to be in a position to do something about it:  ManShep and FemShep can physically co-exist in a game, whereas if they were to do a movie version of Mass Effect that wouldn't possible - as they could only tell one story at a time.  Or it could be really, really confusing, heh.  But more often than not games are falling back on the same cliches save a few notable exceptions such as those they mention.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 17 septembre 2010 - 02:42 .

[Mr.Vakarian]

Just registered today and happened to find this thread. Have not had a chance to read through it completely yet, but I better get started...allot to get through! I'm a big FemShepard fan, just love the dynamics, compassion, honor, power and turmoil behind her character. I am a male and I have played ME and ME2 both ways several times each, but just keep coming back "Femme Fatale" herself.



"Mr.Vakarian"

[Mr.Vakarian]

Modifié par Mr.Vakarian, 17 septembre 2010 - 03:23 .

[Mr.Vakarian]

...sorry, looks like it tried to post it twice...not sure why.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

We are not militant after all? That's a disappointment.

I give up. Serves me right for trying to make a nuanced observation on the internet.

Pardon? Ah. Well. *plonk*

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 17 septembre 2010 - 04:29 .

[adneate]

I know BioWare has said they will never put the female lead on the cover of the box or use her in any mainstream marketing, they are utterly convinced that Jade Empire's poor sales were because there was a woman on the box. So as far as they are concerned that's it end of discussion, women don't sell copies only men do. Though they are more likely to meet players part way by showing off the female lead (Like in Dragon Age 2) and what the game assets look like on a female to the fans but other than that they think the risks are too great.

[Giggles_Manically]

I think puting a leading female instead of a male on the box would be a good thing.

At the very least it makes it stand out from the rows of bald, space marines/heroes who are ALL male.

[Ashwraith]

adneate wrote...

I know BioWare has said they will never put the female lead on the cover of the box or use her in any mainstream marketing, they are utterly convinced that Jade Empire's poor sales were because there was a woman on the box. So as far as they are concerned that's it end of discussion, women don't sell copies only men do. Though they are more likely to meet players part way by showing off the female lead (Like in Dragon Age 2) and what the game assets look like on a female to the fans but other than that they think the risks are too great.

When did they say this? Do you have a link?
(This is genuine curiosity speaking, not 'I'll believe it when I sees it')

Modifié par Ashwraith, 17 septembre 2010 - 03:29 .

[ELE08]

rynluna wrote...

JamieCOTC wrote...

The Gender Gap - Game Informer article on females in gaming.

I know this is old, and only barely mentions Shepard, but it is an interesting and very indepth article on female protagonists is gaming.

Ah, yes.  I've read that a long time ago when it was in the actual magazine.  I just wish some companies would be more gutsy and try marketing a female protagonist even though the "numbers" say not to do otherwise.  The latest vague stats for ME still ****** me off.  

I read earlier in this thread that the new Halo game lets you play a fully voiced female lead.  I wasn't very interested in the game but after hearing that, I might have to give the campaign a shot now.

It brings up some interesting points about the resources required to add a female option that are often overlooked in the whole ManShep/FemShep argument.  Men and women are different, move different, sound different, and often interract with the world differently = twice as much work for the devs to implement.  Which might explain why FemShep sit and walks like a dude.  Speculation of course, but we have no idea what the dev's original intentions were vs. what was actually feasible.  I think some of the improvements we see in Lotsb are evidence that some of our concerns are also their concerns and they are trying to make improvements.

The title picture from the article reminds me I partially based my FemShep off Lilith from Borderlands.  Never played the game, but I like the character design.  Hmmm? Lilith. Teagan Shepard.

[rage-monk]

A little comparison of Upsettingshorts' Shepard and mine (unmodified).

adneate wrote...

I know BioWare has said they will never
put the female lead on the cover of the box or use her in any mainstream
marketing, they are utterly convinced that Jade Empire's poor sales
were because there was a woman on the box. So as far as they are
concerned that's it end of discussion, women don't sell copies only men
do. Though they are more likely to meet players part way by showing off
the female lead (Like in Dragon Age 2) and what the game assets look
like on a female to the fans but other than that they think the risks
are too great.

The main - if not the only - reason why I bought "No One Lives Forever 2" was Cate Archer.[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/cool.png[/smilie]

Modifié par rage-monk, 17 septembre 2010 - 03:35 .

[Christmas Ape]

I didn't care about Halo: Reach until I read "fully voiced female Spartan in campaign play". Now I'm going to get it. And for those new to the crowd, I'm a male FemShep player.



I think they're making a mistake in the marketing. I love sci-fi heroines.

[adneate]

Ashwraith wrote...

When did they say this? Do you have a link?
(This is genuine curiosity speaking, not 'I'll believe it when I sees it')

I wish I could, I tried searching through the mess that is the Dragon Age 2 forums but to no avail, I know they said it very early on when the first info came out in the Gameinformer magazine but if they deleted the topic or removed those comments I can't say. It was in response to people wanting to see the female Hawke used in marketing and shown off much more than the oft ignored female Commander Shepard, their response was and has always been that manly man Garret Hawke is a much better "sell" from a strictly marketing standpoint. They don't want to dilute the image of Dragon Age 2 by including a female Hawke, so while they'll show her on these forums and gaming blogs they don't want to confuse the marketing by having two "faces" of the franchise of different genders. It's just boils down to the cold "guts" of the marketing machine, that honestly isn't directed towards people like us.

[NamiraWilhelm]

Halo reach as female? Wow, not sure if i'll like the story but i might have to give it a shot

I also wish female pcs got more attention, being able to be female makes games a lot better for me (being female). Mass effect did after all have a default female.

Also, i feel we're so lacking of heroines. And the sad thing is we're likely only having femshep for one more adventure. I just wish we could have a woman as admirable as femshep, with adventures that spanned the likes of what lara croft has etc.

[ELE08]

rynluna wrote...

adneate wrote...

I wish I could, I tried searching through the mess that is the Dragon Age 2 forums but to no avail, I know they said it very early on when the first info came out in the Gameinformer magazine but if they deleted the topic or removed those comments I can't say. It was in response to people wanting to see the female Hawke used in marketing and shown off much more than the oft ignored female Commander Shepard, their response was and has always been that manly man Garret Hawke is a much better "sell" from a strictly marketing standpoint. They don't want to dilute the image of Dragon Age 2 by including a female Hawke, so while they'll show her on these forums and gaming blogs they don't want to confuse the marketing by having two "faces" of the franchise of different genders. It's just boils down to the cold "guts" of the marketing machine, that honestly isn't directed towards people like us.

Arghh!  I used to have the link but I deleted it on accident.  I could have sworn that I quoted Priestley in this thread about it or it might have been in the group.  His reply was actually kind of rude in regards to the whole Jade Empire didn't sell well because their was a female on the cover.  If only I still had the link. 

Clicky for linky.  The search function here is terrible.  I find google much more effective.

Modifié par ELE08, 17 septembre 2010 - 04:41 .

[upsettingshorts]

Yeah, I think that's CP making the mistake of thinking correlation equals causation.

It doesn't strike me as rude - he didn't say "WE PUT THAT BIMBO ON JADE EMPIRE AND LOOK WHAT HAPPENED" - it just sounds like his conclusion, at least without access to the data behind it seems flawed.

However in his first post in that thread his reasons make perfect sense. Males who play male characters make up the largest block of potential customers, hence that's where you target your advertising. Furthermore, women and men who like playing female characters are pretty savvy - like those in this thread - and will know if a game features a female protagonist option or not.

All that being said, Tomb Raider managed to sell pretty darn well for a really long time until the series got stale.  I think that if a game is well made and gets good reviews, it's probably going to sell fine.   But I don't have access to the data, just anecdotal impressions.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 17 septembre 2010 - 05:24 .

[Jane Shepard]

And it is always possible to make a Fan Trailer with both female and male characters in it, right?

[AngryFrozenWater]

No Halo for the PC, but Fallout:New Vegas will be out soon. Looks like I might enjoy that one. I wonder how the female PC has been taken care of in that game. I don't expect great cinematics, but I do expect a great sandbox RPG.

[Fraevar]

The problem with Jade Empire wasn't that there was a woman on the cover. It's that the game was short on partymember interaction and meaningful character development. You only had your amulet to upgrade and the fight system was much too repetative. The story, voiceacting and setting was out of this world. Now why does that all sound eeriely familiar?...

[upsettingshorts]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

No Halo for the PC, but Fallout:New Vegas will be out soon. Looks like I might enjoy that one. I wonder how the female PC has been taken care of in that game. I don't expect great cinematics, but I do expect a great sandbox RPG.

Unlike in Mass Effect where it might take me hours and hours but I'll still pull it off, I cannot design attractive people in a Bethesda (or Bethesda-inspired like this one) RPG to save my life.  Male or female.

Those linked sliders are damn frustrating.  And good lord, the tiny little blurry image we get of our toon in Fallout 3?  <_<

Hope Obsidian came up with something different.  Still gonna buy it though.