42753 réponses à ce sujet

[adneate]

Pooh-bah wrote...

I mean I know this is the interner and so filled with trolls, but still I like to think we live in a relatively enlightened age.

Nope. We still have plenty of sexism, homophobia and racism, with the added benefit of not having to say bigoted things to another person's face. The argument against FemShep is always sexist even though those making the argument say it isn't, but they say the same things again and again:

"A woman can't lead."
"A woman can't sound scary."
"A woman isn't strong enough for combat."

Which are all sexist arguments with no basis in reality.

[Fraevar]

adneate wrote...

Pooh-bah wrote...

I mean I know this is the interner and so filled with trolls, but still I like to think we live in a relatively enlightened age.

Nope. We still have plenty of sexism, homophobia and racism, with the added benefit of not having to say bigoted things to another person's face. The argument against FemShep is always sexist even though those making the argument say it isn't, but they say the same things again and again:

"A woman can't lead."
"A woman can't sound scary."
"A woman isn't strong enough for combat."

Which are all sexist arguments with no basis in reality.

QFT!

[jlb524]

rynluna wrote...

I think the argument that usually makes me facepalm the hardest is the,

"FemShep is not strong enough to headbutt a Krogan or beat the shiz out of the SBroker... Dur durr durr!"

Okay, an actual human woman in the present can't probably do that.

Well, neither could the majority of human males, so they still don't have much of a point.

[JamieCOTC]

Neither one can fall off a cliff after running nearly past the edge either. Let's hope they never enter the Fallout 3/NV universe.

[adneate]

rynluna wrote...

"FemShep is not strong enough to headbutt a Krogan or beat the shiz out of the SBroker... Dur durr durr!"

My problem with that argument is that 1) Does muscle mass matter when the majority of said mass is cybernetic super material? My assumption would be no, since Shepard regardless of muscle mass could probably generate enough physical power to put a fist through an Abrams tank. In addition ManSheps muscle mass is not high enough to beat a Krogan or a Yargh to death either so what's the point of the argument? And 2) If the combat armor system of the Mass Effect world can generate enough power to deflect high speed projectiles isn't it also likely that it is a form of powered combat armour that militaries have been dreaming about since the 1950s? That would mean that Shepard is far stronger and faster in the armour than out of it since it enhances the physical abilites of the soldier by working with their muscles. So you put those two things together and maybe even factor in that Shepard could be a Biotic and suddenly it doesn't really seem so unlikely.

[JamieCOTC]

rynluna wrote...

I think the argument that usually makes me facepalm the hardest is the,

"FemShep is not strong enough to headbutt a Krogan or beat the shiz out of the SBroker... Dur durr durr!"

Okay, an actual human woman in the present can't probably do that.  But the game is SCIENCE FICTION.  Krogan are not real, the First Contact War never happened, you can't have amazing Asari mind smex, and a slew of other things in the real world.  Mass Effect is not a real-life simulator....lol!  

Anyway, I was just saying how I always facepalm at that one.

Yep.  Science Fiction 101. 

Q: How fast can the Enterprise go?
A: As fast as a writer needs it to go. 

[ADLegend21]

jlb524 wrote...

rynluna wrote...

I think the argument that usually makes me facepalm the hardest is the,

"FemShep is not strong enough to headbutt a Krogan or beat the shiz out of the SBroker... Dur durr durr!"

Okay, an actual human woman in the present can't probably do that.

Well, neither could the majority of human males, so they still don't have much of a point.

Psh...Hey Wrex come here! *headbutts Wrex...then sees a line of blood comgin from my head*...*passes out* haha.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Pooh-bah wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

The difference between this group/thread and other character threads is that we do not just support a single character or crew member, but we support half the face of the game. The poll is doing great and FemShep seems to be very popular, but there is a movement on these forums that for some reason wants to make life for FemShep very hard and takes pleasure in that. I want to urge you to spread politely what rynluna posted several hours ago to the forum in the future.

There are people who are anti-femshep?  What... how... why? I mean I know this is the interner and so filled with trolls, but still I like to think we live in a relatively enlightened age.

Take anything in the game that people express love, admiration, respect, or anything like that for, discuss it on an internet forum, and at least a few people will immediately express their undying hatred, vitriol, disdain, and so on, not just towards that thing, but anyone who likes that thing in any way.  Take a certain repeat squadie from ME1 and ME2.  It's not enough that people personally don't like that character, they have to threadcrap on any discussion of that character.  They don't just skip recruiting that character, they make sure they go out, recruit that character, and then get her killed -- and then make sure that anyone who is even neutral about that character sees a headshot video of them getting that character killed.  

Why do people hate FemShep?  Because someone else likes her.  That's all.

[Killjoy Cutter]

rynluna wrote...

I think the argument that usually makes me facepalm the hardest is the,

"FemShep is not strong enough to headbutt a Krogan or beat the shiz out of the SBroker... Dur durr durr!"

Okay, an actual human woman in the present can't probably do that.  But the game is SCIENCE FICTION.  Krogan are not real, the First Contact War never happened, you can't have amazing Asari mind smex, and a slew of other things in the real world.  Mass Effect is not a real-life simulator....lol!  

Anyway, I was just saying how I always facepalm at that one.

While I agree with you about the "not strong enough" argument being bunk...

I have to say that I've never liked the idea that once you let one unlikely or impossible thing into a setting or story, then everything is fair game.

[Killjoy Cutter]

adneate wrote...

Pooh-bah wrote...

I mean I know this is the interner and so filled with trolls, but still I like to think we live in a relatively enlightened age.

Nope. We still have plenty of sexism, homophobia and racism, with the added benefit of not having to say bigoted things to another person's face. The argument against FemShep is always sexist even though those making the argument say it isn't, but they say the same things again and again:

"A woman can't lead."
"A woman can't sound scary."
"A woman isn't strong enough for combat."

Which are all sexist arguments with no basis in reality.

To anyone who would say that, I would present Boudica, or Queen Tomyris, or Trung Trac and Trung Nhi, or Joan of Arc, or the rather viscious and brutal warrior women of certain West African tribes.

[ADLegend21]

I lol'd!



http://browse.devian...?order=5&q=mass effect 2#/d2z57ix

[ADLegend21]

I nearly died for this one:



http://browse.devian...?order=5&q=mass effect 2#/d2z5nih

[Pooh-bah]

I can't believe I managed to misspell the word "internet" oh well.

Love the pictures

Edit: and my Vanguard Femshep would be prefectly happy to kneecap anyone who argues with her right to lead. She's been putting the psychopath in renegade for a while now

Modifié par Pooh-bah, 21 septembre 2010 - 01:52 .

[jlb524]

ADLegend21 wrote...

I nearly died for this one:

http://browse.devian...?order=5&q=mass effect 2#/d2z5nih

LOL!

[ADLegend21]

jlb524 wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

I nearly died for this one:

http://browse.devian...?order=5&q=mass effect 2#/d2z5nih

LOL!

and Garrus's reaction at the end nearly sent me to the ER. oh lawd...woooo.

[only1sgop]

adneate wrote...

Pooh-bah wrote...

I mean I know this is the interner and so filled with trolls, but still I like to think we live in a relatively enlightened age.

Nope. We still have plenty of sexism, homophobia and racism, with the added benefit of not having to say bigoted things to another person's face. The argument against FemShep is always sexist even though those making the argument say it isn't, but they say the same things again and again:

"A woman can't lead."
"A woman can't sound scary."
"A woman isn't strong enough for combat."

Which are all sexist arguments with no basis in reality.

Fem Shepard is and will always be my Hero! Yes, I mean hero not heroine.

[Jade Elf]

ADLegend21 wrote...

I nearly died for this one:

http://browse.devian...?order=5&q=mass effect 2#/d2z5nih

OMG that totally cracked me up! I nearly choked on my coffee. 

[ADLegend21]

Jade Elf wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

I nearly died for this one:

http://browse.devian...?order=5&q=mass effect 2#/d2z5nih

OMG that totally cracked me up! I nearly choked on my coffee. 

INORITE!!!! Shep looks terrified

[Christmas Ape]

Ahhh, morning thread catch-up! Fell asleep with my face in C.ini, so to speak, need to lighten the mental exercise a little.

To the general promotion of FemShep: Well, certainly. I think once the ME3 chatter gets underway the thread will slow in favor of militancy. I know we'll never dethrone the present face of Mass Effect, though if I recall correctly we did get FemShep Kestrel armor screenshots. And hey, a whole Strategy Guide of nothing but. I realize it's only semi-official, but at least the industry hasn't forgotten about FemShep.

To the movement argument; I appreciate the change in sitting posture because that's just practical, but I've never had a problem with the way FemShep runs in ME2. I don't know they're identical animations having never played a ManShep, but I was watching her run down one Omega corridor or another (I get so lost in there sometimes, and the map is negative help compared to the old one) and really took a look at it. Head and shoulders slightly lowered, frequent glances side to side, strong deliberate motions; she looks to me like a military veteran running through unsecured territory checking the flanks and having to force forty-odd pounds of ceramic hardsuit into the run with her. I've seen a couple of the local SCA events with female heavies, and nobody looks graceful or feminine trying to move in heavy body armor - and a lot of that weight rides on the shoulders & chest.

As to "A woman can't..." arguments - obviously the non-physicals are dismissed out of hand, and even what's left is absurd because a) I doubt a man could either, heavy armor involves motion-assist systems, c) ME2 Shepard's only made out of a certain percentage of meat anymore. Non-cyborgs don't glow red through cracks in their face, and a combat-enhanced skeletal structure doesn't care what chromosomes you brought to the table.

Also, some of them are old-school super-obvious how-did-you-think-he-meant-that trolls.

"A woman can't lead."

A particular winner, being a severely mistyped version of "I can't bring myself to follow a woman" and a lot more about the poster than gender differences.

[sagefic]

ADLegend21 wrote...

I nearly died for this one:

http://browse.devian...?order=5&q=mass effect 2#/d2z5nih

hilarious.

@ christmas, i'd add to your "a woman could" arguments with

d) the biotic classes clearly have an added advantage (biotic woman vs. average meat-head man, i'm laying money on the one that's glowing blue)
e) the tech classes also have an advantage (woman with wicked omnitool skills vs. average meat-head man, i'm laying money on the techie)
f) femshep as pure soldier has lots of guns. i have yet to learn that firing a gun requires a ****

so *shrug*. personally, i think it comes down to the fact that no person could really do what shep does, male or female, so why not play as a woman? male heroes can be found aplenty, but there are way too few female heroes that aren't just eye-candy.

Modifié par sagequeen, 21 septembre 2010 - 06:05 .

[Christmas Ape]

sagequeen wrote...

so *shrug*. personally, i think it comes down to the fact that no person could really do what shep does, male or female, so why not play as a woman? male heroes can be found aplenty, but there are way too few female heroes that aren't just eye-candy.

I believe that's more or less a more succinct version of my first post in the thread. The completely non-fanservice Shepard makes the series just that much better. It's what a dozen other sci-fi franchises could have been.

[Zan Mura]

sagequeen wrote...
hilarious.

@ christmas, i'd add to your "a woman could" arguments with

d) the biotic classes clearly have an added advantage (biotic woman vs. average meat-head man, i'm laying money on the one that's glowing blue)
e) the tech classes also have an advantage (woman with wicked omnitool skills vs. average meat-head man, i'm laying money on the techie)
f) femshep as pure soldier has lots of guns. i have yet to learn that firing a gun requires a ****

so *shrug*. personally, i think it comes down to the fact that no person could really do what shep does, male or female, so why not play as a woman? male heroes can be found aplenty, but there are way too few female heroes that aren't just eye-candy.

Uhh, forgive me for interrupting here with but a vague idea of what's even going on... but are you trying to defend or damage the cause of females & femshep fans? Because pointing out cases where you have specialist females against average and dumb men really doesn't prove anything but the need to match those women against idiots to even stand a chance. It's the same kind of fallacy as saying "women are just as strong as men, because the strongest woman in the world can beat an average man".

Right now, it's true that men are physically more powerful, have better and faster recuperation, and mentally more prepared for aggressive actions than women. So what? Without getting to a debate on how this applies to the modern society where many of the stereotypical female traits are becoming far more important than the caveman abilities of men, ME takes place nearly 200 years into the future. Tech and biotic abilities minimize the importance of physical prowess, and even if they didn't, even IF there's been no gene manipulation to enhance humans in the future, Shepard represent a unique extreme and is cybernetically upgraded to boot. Plus, if someone's to argue her abilities as a leader, a lot of the male-prominent charisma of modern day can be attributed to culture.

The point is, it's a game of a future world, meaning that the only reason to claim a femsheps' power or success would be any less than a male's, is one's own prejudice in the real world. And I'm not gonna get into an argument over something like that.

[CroGamer002]

BTW, Maria Shepard is Sole Survivor and she lost 7 people on Suicide Mission.



Also I have to add seeing woman hitting Yagh so hard is unrealistic and unbelievable since woman don't have that kind of physical strength unless she is biotic.
But all 3 of my FemShep's are biotics( Vanguard, Adept and Sentinel) so it doesn't bother me.