42753 réponses à ce sujet

[Jagged Orchid]

jlb524 wrote...

Are people aware of the slight differences in LotSB romance scenes for a FemShep vs. a MaleShep? Unsurprisingly, the FemShep version isn't as polished, given that there are clipping issues during the 'kiss interrupt' on the SB base that don't exist with the Male Shep version. Plus, there are lovely little extras in the MaleShep version that are not in the FemShep version, more smiling animations for Liara plus she sobs outwardly instead of just crying (like in the non-romanced Liara version).

So, this goes to show that the morons that claim MaleShep and FemShep are treated the exact same in the game (not mentioning any names here) are in fact....morons. They don't think threads like this are necessary as MaleShep/FemShep are already equal.

Well, the Liara LotSB romance would like to have a word with you...this ain't the case and FemShep and her fans, once again, get the short end of the stick. It seems like they spent most of their time on the MaleShep version of these romance scenes, and threw together the FemShep one at the end. The FemShep romance stuff isn't all that different from what the non-romancers see, given that these nice little romance 'extras' that MaleShep gets are missing.

/rant

That is actually rather disapointing. It is also something I hadn't and wouldn't have noticed as I generally always play as FemShep. That and the one time I managed to complete the game with MaleShep, I didn't have him romance Liara. Something about the combination just didn't seem right. I just felt it suited my FemShep better.

I'm not going to take it as a personal insult to FemShep. I'm pretty sure if was not done intentionally. At least I really hope it wasn't. I just hope that maybe in the future, FemShep gets a little more love.

Oh and side note, hi all. It's my 1st time posting on this thread

[jlb524]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

I also worry that Kaidan and his romance will be neglected in a hypothetical Alliance DLC, and that both he and FemShep will remain a single, interchangeable entity combined with DudeShep/Ashley. I hope that his romance content receives the attention it deserves.

Well, the wrote the Horizon reunion scene with Ashley in mind and just threw Kaidan in there so....yeah.

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

I really do not see any reason as to why Liara's animations differ depending on Shepard's gender, though. There really is no in-universe reason for it, and I can't help but shake the feeling that it as a result of BioWare throwing the FemShep version of the scenes together, almost as an afterthought. :/

There's no in-universe reason for an asari to act differently to a human partner based on gender (as, Liara herself says, gender doesn't matter) so, it's the latter case I'm afraid.

[jlb524]

Valagil wrote...

Oh and side note, hi all. It's my 1st time posting on this thread

Welcome!

@ryn

Here's one gif I made that shows the clipping:



FemShep's hand kind of goes through Liara's arm when she grabs her

[Iwakura-Lain]

rynluna wrote...

(...)  There is nothing we can do about what happened in LotSB, but we can bring it to Bioware's attention that we will not put up with this again.  I payed for my DLC, and my FemShep's animations should have been finished.  I'm thinking about contacting a dev about this.

From the woman who got an actual, earnest-to-God, real reply from Jennifer Hale herself, I have the utmost confidence in you getting somewhere with the devs too! Kudos on you!

[Captain Crash]

jlb524 wrote...

Valagil wrote...

Oh and side note, hi all. It's my 1st time posting on this thread

Welcome!

@ryn

Here's one gif I made that shows the clipping:



FemShep's hand kind of goes through Liara's arm when she grabs her

Meh,  seeing the fireworks instantly after im not too bothered 

[lastpatriot]

mashavasilec wrote...

boo, Fox. and boo Bioware for cowardice

Oh, I think Fox and that stupid writer paid a huge price for their BS report on ME:1 which was full of uneducated opinions and simple bias.  It made me sick watching how “offended” the Fox reporters were.  /gag me with a pitchfork….

Anywho, I think that it’s fair to say that regardless of the holes in the game where it comes to supporting FemShep, Bioware has still done a better job creating a strong heroin than any other company.  Were it not for the great work done by Hale in the voice-over, FemShep really won’t have stood much of a chance.

For future DLC or perhaps in ME:3, I tend to have optimistic hope that Bioware will give FemShep the attention she deserves.

Modifié par lastpatriot, 28 septembre 2010 - 04:43 .

[jlb524]

Captain Crash wrote...

Meh,  seeing the fireworks instantly after im not too bothered 

I didn't care about the clipping really at first, but now that I hear about all the little romance 'extra's' DudeShep gets, I do.

[Iwakura-Lain]

jlb524 wrote...

FemShep's hand kind of goes through Liara's arm when she grabs her

Well, have you seen Femshep's botched animation(s) for when she's sitting in Miranda's office? (in that leisure wear Kasumi gave her). That ain't pretty, either: her entire hand constantly goes thru her dress; and it looks real awkward. Better animations for Femshep, please!

[jlb524]

Iwakura-Lain wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

FemShep's hand kind of goes through Liara's arm when she grabs her

Well, have you seen Femshep's botched animation(s) for when she's sitting in Miranda's office? (in that leisure wear Kasumi gave her). That ain't pretty, either: her entire hand constantly goes thru her dress; and it looks real awkward. Better animations for Femshep, please!

FemShep is just a ghost, I guess

Yeah, I've seen the clipping there too, and there are other botched animations.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Iwakura-Lain wrote...

jlb524 wrote...
FemShep's hand kind of goes through Liara's arm when she grabs her

Well, have you seen Femshep's botched animation(s) for when she's sitting in Miranda's office? (in that leisure wear Kasumi gave her). That ain't pretty, either: her entire hand constantly goes thru her dress; and it looks real awkward. Better animations for Femshep, please!

I fully agree. Not only better, but let her have her own animations. I've read that Jennifer Hale would really love to be hooked up to motion capturing devices.

Edit: There is either a video or an interview in which she suggests that. Does anyone of you remember?

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 28 septembre 2010 - 04:59 .

[adneate]

jlb524 wrote...

Are people aware of the slight differences in LotSB romance scenes for a FemShep vs. a MaleShep?
*Snip*

Well sadly it's not surprising to me and here is why. Ever since the move to 3D stuff like this is an epidemic in WRPGs, the simple reason is money. Creating everything twice (once for the female skeleton once for the male) is expensive and companies try to cut any corner they think they can get away with. Some are obvious like in Oblivion, Fallout 3 and Dragon Age they didn't cut the female model's shoulders to the size an actual human female would have, they left them almost as wide a the male model. Why? Because that way they didn't have to re-do all the combat animations for the two skeletons. I'll demonstrate with a few pictures since they are worth at least 1000 words.


This is BioWare defaut female model, the shoulders are huge like the character stole her brother's football gear.

This is a modded  mesh where they cut the model down to a much more realistic size.

This is BioWare FemShep model which in terms of what the company has done before is actually perfect her shoulders are actually drastically smaller than the male counterpart.

This means that BioWare does have to a fair amount of custom rigging for FemShep and can't recycle everything like they do with their other game Dragon Age. However it does mean the sometimes they'll try to use a male animation or do hack job of a conversion you catch it rather quickly. They know what they were doing but they were just hoping the cut was fast enough that it wasn't very obvious.

As for the difference in tone, they did a similar thing with Leliana in DA. The female romace does feel different than the male one so prehaps the difference between MShep and FShep was intentional trying to convey the differences between a F/F and M/F relationship. Leliana was more an equal with a female Warden and more of a "doll" type character with a male Warden so prehaps there is some sort of bias in the BioWare offices.

Modifié par adneate, 28 septembre 2010 - 05:05 .

[jlb524]

adneate wrote...

As for the difference in tone, they did a similar thing with Leliana in DA. The female romace does feel different than the male one so prehaps the difference between MShep and FShep was intentional trying to convey the differences between a F/F and M/F relationship. Leliana was more an equal with a female Warden and more of a "doll" type character with a male Warden so prehaps there is some sort of bias in the BioWare offices.

Wow...that's like really bad then...are they trying to say f/f romances are inherently more equal while m/f ones are not (with the female being a 'doll') and the woman has to be more emotionally dependent on the man?

IDK, it shouldn't matter to Liara (being an asari).

Modifié par jlb524, 28 septembre 2010 - 05:16 .

[Jagged Orchid]

adneate wrote...

As for the difference in tone, they did a similar thing with Leliana in DA. The female romace does feel different than the male one so prehaps the difference between MShep and FShep was intentional trying to convey the differences between a F/F and M/F relationship. Leliana was more an equal with a female Warden and more of a "doll" type character with a male Warden so prehaps there is some sort of bias in the BioWare offices.

I just kind of wanted to touch on this. I know from a lot of what I read, a male Warden gets to expirence a lot more party banter regarding his relationship with Leliana vs. a female Warden. In fact, I don't think the female Warden has any party banter pertaining to that relationship. Whereas female Warden Alistair gets quite a lot. So as far as DA goes, yes I will agree with you there. As far as the relationhip itself, I can't make any solid male/female compairisons as I've yet to actually complete the game as  a male Warden

I don't necesearily believe that that actually applies to the FemShep Liara romance. I'm leaning towards Bioware just not including it.  I can't imagine why they would not allow Liara to sob in front of the woman she loves but allow it for MaleShep. I could be wrong, but for now I'm going to lean towards it just being an oversight. Granted that does not mean I was happy to learn that it was left out of course.

[adneate]

mashavasilec wrote...

uh, civilian clothes you wear on the Normandy is not a sign of Bioware catering to femshep. it's just a custom female body attached to your face. so not much work there

I didn't say they were catering to FemShep however it's a little bit more complicated than just sticking the body on a face. The models are rigged so that they animate as such the animations have to be compatible with the rigging or problems will start to show up. In Fallout 3 modding nobody has yet managed to edit the female skeleton model, yet however people have gone ahead and cut the female body model anyway. Since the skeleton rigging is no longer in sync with the model you get things moving at really odd angles, so sighting down on a rifle actually causes the arm to bow backwards towards the skeleton reference point not the positon on the body model. FemShep has the ability to have a set of totally unique animations but BioWare cuts corners and recycles a bunch of MShep animations as quickly as they can. It's lazy but not super lazy, as in all things money is the root of all evil. Stuff like this happens because they want to save money or ran out of money or want to spend money somewhere else.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Yay! Found it. If you haven't listened to this interview then please do. It also gives some behind the scene's info about ME1 and ME2.

Destructoid Community Interview: Jennifer Hale (Part 1 of 2).

Destructoid Community Interview: Jennifer Hale (Part 2 of 2).

Jennifer Hale said...

Put me in a suit! Let me be the visual as well.

You can hear that quote somewhere in the middle of part 2.

Edit: Actually near the end, but she starts talking about that wish in the middle.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 28 septembre 2010 - 05:42 .