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[Vralenalien]

Well, my plan of getting ME1 playthrough without romancing Liara got harder. Mainly because of my brilliant plan of getting her last. I've always went to Therum 1st or after either Noveria or Feros, but never after I've done both of them.
So now I thought I'll do that and have less temptations of romancing Liara. Which seemed to be mistake since I got dialog from Liara I've never heard before. She's funny when you meet her first time if you've done noveria and Feros before going there. There is still hope that Jennifer manages to stay only friends, but I wouldn't bet on it. (Maybe I just do both and get on with it. :innocent:)

Few new pics of her.


Jennifer after escaping Therum ruins

Jennifer after Lisbeth shot her. (And because gun pose pictures are nice )

[Vralenalien]

@F1r3storm
Nice wallpaper

@Nhani
Can't say I've noticed anything off when talking to Hackett, but most likely I just don't have face that meets the reguirement for it to happend or I just haven't been paying attention to it. There are occasions when every face looks odd in ME or ME2. I don't think it's possible to make face that doesn't look odd at sometime.
So I don't think you're crazy.

Modifié par Vralenalien, 04 octobre 2010 - 08:51 .

[Iwakura-Lain]

Delerius_Jedi wrote...

Sable Phoenix wrote...

Totally agreed.  Unless BioWare explores this avenue with Shepard, the entire Lazarus Project was a giant (and pointless) deus ex machina whose only purpose was to 'reset' the game universe for people new to the franchise when ME2 started.

It's my firm belief that Shepard is in essence an organic AI.  They just didn't need the quantum blue box, because they could grow the pattern of an organic 'blue box' in her brain scans and genetic code.  It's the only way to explain (supposedly) bringing someone back from the dead after she's been exposed to vaccuum and sub-zero temperatures and completely brain dead for who knows how many months.

If you look at the critique that's been made of ME2, over half of it centers around exactly that - Shepard's "death" being simply an excuse for their redesigned gameplay systems. And to be honest, I am in that camp myself. They make this lavish intro with my ME1 protagonist dying and then she is brought back to life and then...nothing. Buisiness as usual with minimal references or reflection on the event. I am dying for femShep to finally get that particular bit of self-reflection.

I like your organic AI theory, it does open up some interesting possibilities for ME3 - like who will finally deter the Reapers from their murderous ways? Can it be that it will be our femShep who will have to give up her human body by ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL (sorry, lulz) over the Reapers?

^^ This.

Erm, why did Shepard die exactly? Because I'm still in the dark as to why she had to die, 'redesigned gameplay system' included. Is it so you're given the opportunity to reconstruct her face? You know, it's called plastic surgery, and people have it done all over the world, without having to resort to something so drastic as dying first. The whole Lazarus project is stretching the bounds of credulity as it is. Which, of course, we're still willing to accept... if there's an incredible solid and meaningful reason for her to have departed (facial reconstruction not being one). We can, indeed, only assume there's a reason we haven't seen yet, like her ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL over the Reapers in the last installment.

Still, dying is like marriage: it's generally considered sort of a big thing. Other than the odd snide 'Sigourney Weaver' type renegade interrupt like "Yeah, I get that a lot." (C-Sec), Shepard spends exactly zero (visible) time on her former demise. And no one around her seems particularly bothered by it either. I know she's a busy woman and all, but if there's time to talk about Joker's new leather seats, there's time to talk about Shepards new life.

As for the Reapers, am I the only one who was severely bothered by that human Reaper on the big vessel? I mean, WTF? Whatever happened to "There is a realm of existence so far beyond your own, you cannot even imagine it."? And, by the goddess, why would anyone want to build a forty stories tall human-lookalike Reaper on a space ship!? Ever.

Sigh.

EDIT: On the plus side, I finally managed to change my Avatar. Thanks again, Christmas Ape, for all the help.

Modifié par Iwakura-Lain, 04 octobre 2010 - 08:57 .

[Sable Phoenix]

Iwakura-Lain wrote...

As for the Reapers, am I the only one who was severely bothered by that human Reaper on the big vessel? I mean, WTF? Whatever happened to "There is a realm of existence so far beyond your own, you cannot even imagine it."? And, by the goddess, why would anyone want to build a forty stories tall human-lookalike Reaper on a space ship!? Ever.

Sigh.
.

Oh you're not the only one.  In fact I sometimes think I am the only one who was not bothered by it.  To me it makes perfect sense and I find it quite horrifying.  I still can't imagine how the Reapers came to be, or how they manage to be effectively immortal, or how they survive in dark space, there's a lot of stuff I can't figure out about the Reapers, but the revelation that they reproduce by rendering down the entirety of galactic civilization just clicked for me, somehow.  What I don't get is why it apparently has to be sapient, technologically advanced life.  But I still have faith BioWare will give us satisfactory resolutions to this.  It's shaky faith, given some of their recent directions, but it's there.

As far as the appearance goes, the concept art for the human-Reaper shows the giant human skeleton encased in a giant space-prawn shell, its face in the belly and its arms and legs extending downward to form the tentacle-head we've come to associate with the Reapers.  Presumably, every Reaper we see in the closing cutscene has a giant-size skeleton inside it that looks like whatever race it was made from.

I expect that ME3 will carry more impact for a femShep than a dudeShep.  Why?  Well, think about why the Collectors, and by extension the Reapers, were interested specifically in Shepard.  I think they see her as something so unique and outstanding they want to use her as some kind of template for all the Reapers produced in this harvest cycle.  Perhaps they even want to use actual material from her in each one.  Being enthralled as the "mother" of the next generation of Reapers has a much more horrifying subtext if Shepard is female, like a sci-fi version of the Broodmothers in Dragon Age.  Heck, anything related to transhumanism, body modification, grafting, or implantation has a more powerful subtext if the character is female, given the inherent properties of her sex.  I'm sure I don't have to spell out why.  Regardless, if my suspicion turns out to be true, it'll just make femShep that much more of a dramatic character for the series.

Modifié par Sable Phoenix, 04 octobre 2010 - 09:25 .

[Iwakura-Lain]

Vralenalien wrote...

Few new pics of her.



Jennifer after escaping Therum ruins

Your Jennifer looks great. And I love that 'Knight In Grey Armor' pose; it's very becoming on her.

[Nhani]

Sable Phoenix wrote...
Oh you're not the only one.  In fact I sometimes think I am the only one who was not bothered by it.  To me it makes perfect sense and I find it quite horrifying.  I still can't imagine how the Reapers came to be, or how they manage to be effectively immortal, or how they survive in dark space, there's a lot of stuff I can't figure out about the Reapers, but the revelation that they reproduce by rendering down the entirety of galactic civilization just clicked for me, somehow.

I'll actually chime in agreement here - it resonated enough with me somewhere to set off my mind in all sorts of directions for theories as to how and why this made sense and how it all ties together. Mind you, a whole lot of that is on a metaphorical level, but it clicked with me somewhere - especially as to why something on a level "so far beyond your own you can not even imagine it" would still bother stalking the insignificant for another reason than sheer giggles.

..though picturing a giggling reaper is.. unsettling..

Sable Phoenix wrote...
I expect that ME3 will carry more impact for a femShep than a dudeShep.  Why?  Well, think about why the Collectors, and by extension the Reapers, were interested specifically in Shepard.  I think they see her as something so unique and outstanding they want to use her as some kind of template for all the Reapers produced in this harvest cycle.  Perhaps they even want to use actual material from her in each one.  Being enthralled as the "mother" of the next generation of Reapers has a much more horrifying subtext if Shepard is female, like a sci-fi version of the Broodmothers in Dragon Age.  Heck, anything related to transhumanism, body modification, grafting, or implantation has a more powerful subtext if the character is female, given the inherent properties of her sex.  I'm sure I don't have to spell out why.  Regardless, if my suspicion turns out to be true, it'll just make femShep that much more of a dramatic character for the series.

..this.. is an interesting point that I admit I actually hadn't thought of before. Unfortunately, I suspect that the impact would be more in our heads or in Hale's delivery than something explicitly offered by BioWare, but I think it's a really interesting perspective on the matter.

[Iwakura-Lain]

Sable Phoenix wrote...

I expect that ME3 will carry more impact for a femShep than a dudeShep.  Why?  Well, think about why the Collectors, and by extension the Reapers, were interested specifically in Shepard.  I think they see her as something so unique and outstanding they want to use her as some kind of template for all the Reapers produced in this harvest cycle. Perhaps they even want to use actual material from her in each one.  Being enthralled as the "mother" of the next generation of Reapers....

That all sounds a mite too "Alien IV" to me.

... has a much more horrifying subtext if Shepard is female, like a sci-fi version of the Broodmothers in Dragon Age.  Heck, anything related to transhumanism, body modification, grafting, or implantation has a more powerful subtext if the character is female, given the inherent properties of her sex.  I'm sure I don't have to spell out why.

All I can say is, Bioware best be careful with that; this sorta things tends to get trite very, very fast.

[Sable Phoenix]

Iwakura-Lain wrote...

Sable Phoenix wrote...

I expect that ME3 will carry more impact for a femShep than a dudeShep.  Why?  Well, think about why the Collectors, and by extension the Reapers, were interested specifically in Shepard.  I think they see her as something so unique and outstanding they want to use her as some kind of template for all the Reapers produced in this harvest cycle. Perhaps they even want to use actual material from her in each one.  Being enthralled as the "mother" of the next generation of Reapers....

That all sounds a mite too "Alien IV" to me.

... has a much more horrifying subtext if Shepard is female, like a sci-fi version of the Broodmothers in Dragon Age.  Heck, anything related to transhumanism, body modification, grafting, or implantation has a more powerful subtext if the character is female, given the inherent properties of her sex.  I'm sure I don't have to spell out why.

All I can say is, Bioware best be careful with that; this sorta things tends to get trite very, very fast.

I don't expect them to be explicit about it.  Especially since it would be applicable to both male and female Shepards.  I'm just saying that if that's the route they go for, the gender of the character, because it's, well, inherent to them, will make a difference how that storyline is perceived and the type of implications it has for said character.  I'm not expecting they'll play the story differently for either Shepard, but the very fact that femShep is female would make it more dramatic.

>shrug<  My opinion, anyway.  At the very least BioWare better incorporate the Lazarus Project into the final defeat of the Reapers.  And just that will be more dramatic by virtue of femShep's femininity, I think.  Still, the Reapers are obviously interested in Shepard specifically, and I think it's more important than just "you killed one of us".  BioWare needs to answer that.

Modifié par Sable Phoenix, 04 octobre 2010 - 10:43 .

[Vralenalien]

Ooh, lots of speculations about what will happend. I try not to read any of those. I have enough problems to deal with my own speculations when they get out of hands. If I read what others think might happend I might go even more crazy I already am. So I just try to wait out what BW gives us and hope it's good and doesn't leave too much things unexplained.



@Iwakura

I'm quite happy how she looks. Definetly one I could use again so think I need to try and get her facecode when I import her to ME2.

[Iwakura-Lain]

Sable Phoenix wrote...

(...) At the very least BioWare better incorporate the Lazarus Project into the final defeat of the Reapers.  And just that will be more dramatic by virtue of femShep's femininity, I think.  Still, the Reapers are obviously interested in Shepard specifically, and I think it's more important than just "you killed one of us".  BioWare needs to answer that.

The longer I think about it, the more likely it becomes that you're right: Shepard's Lazarus experience kinda has to be tied into the Reaper finale, else it made no sense at all. Knowing Bioware, it will be done in a classy fashion (and it'll probably happen a little different from what we expected). But all the basics for a Shepard-Reaper integration are essentially there (and I think Project Overlord gave us sneak preview of sorts: if an AI can take over Shepard, then Shepard can take over an AI).

Definitely such a story line will more deeply impact Femshep. There's so many 'mother of the race' metaphors already inherent in merely being female, that I'm even curious as to how they'll fit man shep in there.  Like I said, though, it must be done with care, as such 'Aliens use female to birth a new race' storylines can appear downtrodden very fast.

At the very least I hope Bioware will allow Femshep some reflection time (with or without friends); or even some grieving time. She got to have none of that in ME2; and while 'artificial' to an extent, she's no robot, and needs closure (or, I should probably say, we, playing her, need it; then, of course, they're one and the same thing).

[Jagged Orchid]

Vralenalien wrote...

Well, my plan of getting ME1 playthrough without romancing Liara got harder. Mainly because of my brilliant plan of getting her last. I've always went to Therum 1st or after either Noveria or Feros, but never after I've done both of them.
So now I thought I'll do that and have less temptations of romancing Liara. Which seemed to be mistake since I got dialog from Liara I've never heard before. She's funny when you meet her first time if you've done noveria and Feros before going there. There is still hope that Jennifer manages to stay only friends, but I wouldn't bet on it. (Maybe I just do both and get on with it. :innocent:)

I've always been interested in seeing what happens if Liara is rescued last. I've read that she believes you are a hallucination or something initially but I did not know there was new dialogue. Now I might have to play the game again just to try this out. Although, I know my Shepard would not be able to resist Liara. She'll never get out of ME1 single, lol


Interesting theories regarding what will happen in ME3. I've had a few interesting conversations with friends about where the story was going. I told myself I'd hold off until I read Retribution. I'm not sure if it answers any of my questions or if it will just create more, but there it is. I have faith that Bioware will answer most of our questions/concerns, etc. between the bridging content and ME3. In fact my feeling is the bridging content will play a large role in setting up the story for ME3 because there is so much that needs to be covered.

[Nhani]

Valagil wrote...
I've always been interested in seeing what happens if Liara is rescued last. I've read that she believes you are a hallucination or something initially but I did not know there was new dialogue. Now I might have to play the game again just to try this out. Although, I know my Shepard would not be able to resist Liara. She'll never get out of ME1 single, lol

Being more the sort that sticks with Kaidan, I've saved Liara for last a few times; the parts of the Therum dialogue where she believes you are a hallucination are quite hilarious in a lucid delerium sort of way as she keeps trying to rationalize why she's hallucinating Shepard of all things, not to mention her later outburst on the Normandy when she finds out that her last fifty years of extensive research has just been made obsolete by the random lucky discoveries of a single human.

I actually don't know to what extents you could pick up a romance after that, though.

[sagefic]

Nhani wrote...

sagequeen wrote...
and never once does shep get the chance to reflect on it nor does anyone else in the game. it's like we're not supposed to think about these things. i'll take improbable happenings - i like fantasy and sci-fi, after all, but at least follow through on the implications of it all.

Agreed!

Before Lair of the Shadow Broker, I always felt that the one thing Mass Effect 2 really lacked over its predecessor was the ability for your Shepard to be uncertain, and balk under the pressure. Sure, Shepard always kept a focused, determined and unshakable outwards face, but Mass Effect 1 felt like it had more opportunity to show beyond that, from time to time. I realize Mass Effect is also by large an action game and not an existential dilemma, but it sort of feels like there's just these questions one would ask.. at this point we have a Cyborg Shepard with the combined social identity of an entire dead species implanted in her head - feels like at some point.. that has to hit critical mass.

yes.

who wants to watch a hero who saunters through the story without ever thinking about the implications of their own DEATH? heroes have to be relatable or otherwise what fun are they to watch? part of what makes heroes interesting is that they are human inside like all of us and yet they do the incredible. heck, i'm thinking of LOTR now - aragorn may be this awaited leader, but he doubts himself like crazy, even as he never once turns away from his role. i see that shep should be like that, but without being able to have the vulnerable moments (such as aragorn does with his mentor (gandalf/anderson) and his LI (arwen/insert LI of choosing), it simply wouldn't have the same weight.

[adneate]

The only way Shepard's death not affecting her makes any sense is for it to almost be beyond her comprehension, that one minute it was incredible pain and then darkeness. Only to "wake up" seconds later in a totally different place 2 years later pumped full of cybernetic parts, she's different to everyone but herself. While they didn't handle it very well I don't know how anyone could try to rationalize what happened and maybe not taking it seriously is just the only way to keep sane. Though I did like the way they took the "I got better" line and armed it with actual emotion making it clear that it had a great effect on others even if Shepard herself can't fully understand the full impact of her death on other people. It's a great scene because if you recover the N7 Helm it looks like she sees it and suddenly realizes how Shepard death made her feel.

[Chignon]

mashavasilec wrote...

yeah, well, my Sheps who didn't romance Liara are still devoid of life. i'll probably keep on whining until it's rectified

I'll whine with you!

[Jagged Orchid]

adneate wrote...

The only way Shepard's death not affecting her makes any sense is for it to almost be beyond her comprehension, that one minute it was incredible pain and then darkeness. Only to "wake up" seconds later in a totally different place 2 years later pumped full of cybernetic parts, she's different to everyone but herself. While they didn't handle it very well I don't know how anyone could try to rationalize what happened and maybe not taking it seriously is just the only way to keep sane. Though I did like the way they took the "I got better" line and armed it with actual emotion making it clear that it had a great effect on others even if Shepard herself can't fully understand the full impact of her death on other people. It's a great scene because if you recover the N7 Helm it looks like she sees it and suddenly realizes how Shepard death made her feel.

That is probably one of my favorite screenshots from LotSB... I've been playing around with that shot and photoshop but I've yet to come up with anything I'm happy with.

You make a good point. To Shepard, it hasn't been two years. She died and then she woke up. So while she didn't have to go through two years of mourning, she did have to wake up to everyone around her acting different. Everyone has more or less moved on. Her friends are in different places in their lives, the person she loves has become distant, etc.

I'd like to think that those around her are greatly touched by her death and subsequent resurrection. We saw that with Liara and I think if they do have VS DLC we'll see it with them too. Even if we don't I'm hoping it gets touched on in ME3. I was a little troubled at how casual both Tali and Garrus were at learning Shepard was alive and well. I don't really care how anyone who was not close to Shepard reacts to her death. That was pretty much explained away. They figured it must have been some deep cover operation.

[ELE08]

In regards to Shep dying, I think I'm getting very good at rationalizing their story decisions away. In fact I wrote a fanfic where Shep gets horribly drunk after Horizon and just decides to bottle all her emotions away. Yep, that's why she acts like a robot. She's got issues.



Not that I really like this particularly. There is so much potential for ME3 to go great places with this particular aspect of the story. I am tentatively hopeful.

[Jagged Orchid]

ELE08 wrote...

In regards to Shep dying, I think I'm getting very good at rationalizing their story decisions away. In fact I wrote a fanfic where Shep gets horribly drunk after Horizon and just decides to bottle all her emotions away. Yep, that's why she acts like a robot. She's got issues.

Not that I really like this particularly. There is so much potential for ME3 to go great places with this particular aspect of the story. I am tentatively hopeful.

While I didn't write anything down, I have sort of rationalized a lot of the story in my head. I kind of went into this saying okay, we are not seeing everything. So My Shepard has in my mind had more conversations with say Tali and Garrus. After LotSB I figure I'm in contact with Liara and she is the one person that really knows Alex. She even asked Shepard how she was doing. I took that a step further. Alex has had several conversations with Liara on this topic. She's the one person my Shepard can be herself with.

Of course this is all in my world and it's my way of tying some of the loose ends together. But I would like to see some of the emotions touched on more in game.