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[jlb524]

Sable Phoenix wrote...

I also believe this was largely intentional on the Illusive Man’s part.  Give her enough that is familiar that she can latch onto it for reference (Joker and Chakwas, who she was friendly with but had no real close relationship too), but not enough to identify with.  One reason he outright lies and says Liara might be working for the Shadow Broker is to keep Shepard from chasing off after her right away, to make sure that isolated feeling settles in for a bit.  A disoriented and rootless Shepard will be a lot easier to control, and maybe a touch of Stockholm Syndrome will set in.  I’m sure he wasn’t pleased when Archangel turned out to be Garrus.  I also believe TIM himself engineered the “attack” on Lazarus Station (wasn’t Wilson one of his “best operatives”?), because there is absolutely zero explanation for it.  What better way to keep Shepard’s mind on the track he desires than to throw her into a battle the instant she wakes up?  Let that combat training take over and dictate her actions for you.

That's an interesting way to look at things.  Shepard feels isolated and alone, but not enough that she'll go crazy.  Though, I think it was the Shadow Broker that orchestrated the attack on Lazarus Station.  It's in one of the LotSB dossiers.

[adneate]

jlb524 wrote...

Speaking of fan fic, who all around here writes it for their Shepard?

Oh heavens no, not me I must be the worst writer in the world. I can barely write a coherent backstory, I'd never do an actual story. Though if I had a dream project I'd love to work with someone like Ximena on a Torfan comic with a Female Shepard of the Colonist background. However that's mainly just because I love Ximena's art and I'd have a competent writer keeping me in check and doing the majority of the work. Speaking of which I should promote Ximena because she's fantastic and her Dragon Age comic series is amazing.

http://ximena07.deviantart.com/

Modifié par adneate, 04 octobre 2010 - 04:14 .

[jlb524]

adneate wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Speaking of fan fic, who all around here writes it for their Shepard?

Oh heavens no, not me I must be the worst writer in the world. I can barely write a coherent backstory, I'd never do an actual story. Though if I had a dream project I'd love to work with someone like Ximena on a Torfan comic with a Female Shepard of the Colonist background. However that's mainly just because I love Ximena's art and I'd have a competent writer keeping me in check and doing the majority of the work. Speaking of which I should promote Ximena because she's fantastic and her Dragon Age comic series is amazing.

http://ximena07.deviantart.com/

That would be an interesting project.  You don't see many Torfan Shepard stuff out there (my Shepard is one, though). 

Her comics are indeed amazing!

[sagefic]

jlb524 wrote...

Speaking of fan fic, who all around here writes it for their Shepard?

*shyly raises hand*

I came to like my Shep so much I had to write her story down. It just sort of went massively novel-like from there.



I did colonist because I like the idea of her being a farm girl, but I chose War Hero and did a twist on Elysium. I just love the props for war hero. Basically, I figure it wasn't sunshine and bunnies, and Shep has never felt worthy of the title.

Modifié par sagequeen, 04 octobre 2010 - 04:29 .

[Chignon]

sagequeen wrote...

I tend to always combine certain background together because in my mind they fit "best" - but yes, I guess everybody has their own take on what fits their Shepard. Noah is an Earthborn/Sole Survivor. She went through a lot in her childhood on Earth and I like to think that this is what's got her through Akuze and the things that followed. And Devon is a Colonist/Ruthless - after what she's seen on Mindoir, she'd never give an inch to slavers - no matter the cost.

[adneate]

jlb524 wrote...

That would be an interesting project.  You don't see many Torfan Shepard stuff out there (my Shepard is one, though). 

It might be for the best because I'd make Torfan as brutal and as dark as possible, I'd love it but it might make some people never want to play a ruthless character ever again. I wouldn't have any trouble using my own character and painting her as essentially a war criminal who should have been executed after Torfan but was built up into a hero by the Alliance for lack of anyone else who could be used for such a purpose. Though the point would be that revenge can't bring back the dead and it leaves you just as empty and as lonely as before, even more so when you realize what you did to get that vengence.

[Iwakura-Lain]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Hmmm. Regarding the discussion concerning Shepard's death, and how it does not seem to phase or affect her in any way at all, I've also noticed that the ME universe does not seem to react to Shepard's death in a believable way either. I mean, when she reunites with her old friends and informs them that she perished when the Normandy was destroyed, most of her old allies seemingly shrug it off. This always confused me, as there was such a wealth and abundance of potential regarding Shepard's death and resurrection. Not only should it have affected Shepard herself in a considerable way, but her old allies and friends should have reacted to Shepard's death too.

Thankfully, I feel that this was addressed in LotSB, especially if Liara is Shepard's LI. One of the criticisms of the retail version of ME2 and it's narrative is that Shepard's death is seemingly brushed aside, and trivialised into a meaningless plot device and gameplay mechanic. I feel that this was epitomised during the confrontation with Nassana Dantius, where Shepard responds to her shocked reaction with a blase "I got better". It's as if she is not particularly bothered by the fact that she was killed, and then resurrected. However, during Liara's ME2 romance scene in which she emotionally laments Shepard's death, the Commander repeats the above line that she used during the confrontation with Nassana. It's like a reprise, and a flashback to Shepard's indifference and the trivialisation of her death.

However, Liara's reaction is not one of indifference, or apathy. Tearfully, she expresses her fear that she will lose Shepard once again, that she is frightened that Shepard will perish once the impending Reaper war begins, and that she spent two years painfully mourning her. At last, we're shown that Shepard's death has had a profound effect on someone close to her, and that her lover has reacted to her death in a believable and realistic way. Shepard's death is not trivialised and meaningless in this instance...it has caused tremendous suffering to her lover and girlfriend. It adds a human element to Shepard's death, which is an odd choice of words considering the fact that Liara is an asari. On this occasion, Shepard's death and resurrection is not a meaningless plot device or deus ex machina. It has had a genuine and profound effect on someone close to her. I'm hoping that a hypothetical VS DLC also showcases how Ashley and Kaidan struggled with Shepard's death. It's touched upon during the reunion on Horizon, but I'd like to see it explored further.

Excellent post! And thank you for putting it into words so lucidly.

Maybe it was Bioware's intention all along to fill in the gaps by means of DLC's? As to a VS DLC, I haven't even heard rumors about it yet (at least not from folks other than those who want to see it happen). I always kinda got the impression LotSB was going to be the last one. But I could (and hope to) be horribly wrong.

[sagefic]

Iwakura-Lain wrote...

*snip*

On this occasion, Shepard's death and resurrection is not a meaningless plot device or deus ex machina. It has had a genuine and profound effect on someone close to her. I'm hoping that a hypothetical VS DLC also showcases how Ashley and Kaidan struggled with Shepard's death. It's touched upon during the reunion on Horizon, but I'd like to see it explored further.

QFT

LotSB did make it seem "real." The way no one reflected on it in ME2, I keep wondering if there isn't some secret shocker Miranda/Jacob, etc. don't want you to know about your death. Like, you didn't REALLY completely die and they used it as an excuse to implant you with their tech? Or something.

But yes, Liara seemed to really care - come to that, so did Ashley and Kaidan in their own way on Horizon. Clearly they were mourning.. It was too bad that they didn't have more dialog for Tali/Garrus, becuase it made me feel like they *didn't* care about Shepard.

Modifié par sagequeen, 04 octobre 2010 - 04:58 .

[Jagged Orchid]

Iwakura-Lain wrote...

Maybe it was Bioware's intention all along to fill in the gaps by means of DLC's? As to a VS DLC, I haven't even heard rumors about it yet (at least not from folks other than those who want to see it happen). I always kinda got the impression LotSB was going to be the last one. But I could (and hope to) be horribly wrong.

I was under the impression that we would be getting more of this bridging DLC and  LotSB was just the 1st. Don't quote me on this because I honestly don't remember where I read it. While the VS DLC is currently just speculation, I don't think it's all that far fetched. There are a lot of loose ends that might need to be tied up before the start of ME3.

[sagefic]

Valagil wrote...

Iwakura-Lain wrote...

Maybe it was Bioware's intention all along to fill in the gaps by means of DLC's? As to a VS DLC, I haven't even heard rumors about it yet (at least not from folks other than those who want to see it happen). I always kinda got the impression LotSB was going to be the last one. But I could (and hope to) be horribly wrong.

I was under the impression that we would be getting more of this bridging DLC and  LotSB was just the 1st. Don't quote me on this because I honestly don't remember where I read it. While the VS DLC is currently just speculation, I don't think it's all that far fetched. There are a lot of loose ends that might need to be tied up before the start of ME3.

There is no official word on VS and yes, there was some mention that LotSB is the first of the bridging/post mission DLC. the link is somewhere in the VS DLC support thread...

[Iwakura-Lain]

sagequeen wrote...

Iwakura-Lain wrote...

*snip*

On this occasion, Shepard's death and resurrection is not a meaningless plot device or deus ex machina. It has had a genuine and profound effect on someone close to her. I'm hoping that a hypothetical VS DLC also showcases how Ashley and Kaidan struggled with Shepard's death. It's touched upon during the reunion on Horizon, but I'd like to see it explored further.

QFT

Sorry, but that excellent bit of writing was posted by LesEnfantsTerribles, not yours truly.

[Chignon]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Come on, Kaidanites! Keep the faith!

I'll try. But until then I'm just going to content myself with playing ME1 and pretend ME2 didn't happen.



  

[Fraevar]

Wow I have missed a lot today. I will sum it up in that I agree with all of you that Shepard really does need more emotional balance, and that BioWare ultimately faces a narrative problem - the more they push Shepard as a generic action hero, the less room there is for any actual character development, since people who don't care about those things simply wants their blockhead. I am hoping that since ME2 did not sell nearly as well as they thought it would and that much criticism has been raised on this point that any new DLC and ME3 will revert back towards the ME1 kind of storytelling with attempts to go deeper into the characters.



Shepard needs a proper resolution with Ashley/Kaidan for her to be believable as a character. The Liara DLC began to rectify Shepard's block-head status, but again - with an event as massive as her *dying* her needing to overcome it should have been a much bigger part of ME2. But alas, BioWare just went for shooting more stuff instead. Narrative conflicting with gameplay/marketing demographics. I seriously hope the people advocating narrative first win out next time...

[Fraevar]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Hey, I'm pleased with the fact that LotSB allowed Shepard to lower her defenses, drop her emotional barriers, and display some emotional vulnerability and uncertainty at last. Considering the fact that the locker scene is one of my favourite aspects of the ME1 romances, it was more than welcome to witness my Shepard confiding in Liara. I hope that the VS DLC follows suit!

I love the locker scene in ME1, because it actually reverses things. For once, Shepard is not the answer and she needs the help of a confidant to actually figure out what they're going to do. I thought it was really good at portraying her as a thinking human being, not a walking plot device, which, sadly, ME2 made her into

[sagefic]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Come on, Kaidanites! Keep the faith!

Shepard: You ARE coming back for a DLC, right?
Kaidan: I *think* so, ma'am.

and sorry for misquoting you les. But yeah, I think VS DLC is coming and that it's under lock and key because of major spoilers.

and I too miss the locker scene. first time i saw it my heart skipped a beat, it was just that needed at that point in the game.