42753 réponses à ce sujet

[tmk]

The way I heard it, it's based on the ratio of your points to the maximum possible points you could have by that moment. So yes, trying to be balanced leaves you kinda screwed. But you don't have to choose all paragon options to get the paragon persuade.

jlb524 wrote...
I don't know...the whole thing sucks, IMO, and should go back to being skill based.

That it definitely does.

Modifié par tmk, 05 octobre 2010 - 04:09 .

[Jagged Orchid]

jlb524 wrote...

It just seems way too complex for them to track all that throughout the entire game.

I don't know...the whole thing sucks, IMO, and should go back to being skill based.

I agree. I didn't have a problem with it the 1st few playthroughs because I played pretty much exclusively Paragon with maybe a Renegade interrupt here and there. However now that I'm creating this alternate reality so to speak where Shepard doesn't wake up a Paragon, I'm going to run into some problems completing the game in a manner I was hoping. It will be interesting to see how it plays out in the 3rd game.

[Chignon]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

I do like how Paragon Shepard resoundingly and completely disregards Cerberus and TIM at the end of the game, though. One of my favourite lines during the last conversation with TIM is Shepard's "Human dominance? Or just Cerberus?". In addition to voicing her concerns that keeping the Collector Base is morally bankrupt, Shepard is also able to be dismissive of Cerberus and it's long term goals, and once again state that she considers Cerberus to be an abhorrent terrorist organisation with extremist goals, and something that she does not want to assist at all. I liked that.

Shepard says that line no matter if she is a Paragon or Renegade, but you worded that very nicely, LesEnfantsTerribles.

[tmk]

yorkj86 wrote...
I'm pretty sure.  It's why sometimes respeccing in to the class power that increases your Paragon/Renegade gains by 100% can let you pass certain dialogue checks.  The fullness of the bar doesn't indicate much.

Yes, the length of the bars themselves doesn't indicate anything really (their relation indicates kinda sorta something along the lines, but also not quite). But the game tracks points, not how many times you chose paragon or renegade option per se. Most dialogue options don't result in any kind of points and as such are irrelevant to the persuade checks.

[jlb524]

yorkj86 wrote...

I'm pretty sure.  It's why sometimes respeccing in to the class power that increases your Paragon/Renegade gains by 100% can let you pass certain dialogue checks.  The fullness of the bar doesn't indicate much.

Yeah, respeccing gives you more points and allows you to pass checks.   That's why when I did this, I could finally pass the check with Tela.  It's still seems ultimately point based and independent of what other dialog options you have chosen in the conversation.

tmk wrote...

Yes, the length of the bars themselves doesn't indicate anything really (their relation indicates kinda sorta something along the lines, but also not quite). But the game tracks points, not how many times you chose paragon or renegade option per se. Most dialogue options don't result in any kind of points and as such are
irrelevant to the persuade checks.

The length of the bar is proportional to how many points you have, though.

Modifié par jlb524, 05 octobre 2010 - 04:16 .

[tmk]

Yea but it doesn't matter, because the ratio works off of how many points are available to you by that point, and that changes throughout the game.

I used to have a link to the dev's explanation, can't find it now. But basically every time you first visit a new place (a level or hub world) where you can get some "karma points", those points are added to the total of the points you could have. And then the points you have are compared against those.

Roughly, the further you are into the game, the less points you effectively have (unless you pick all points of a given "alignment", then it doesn't matter). You could have what looks like a "full bar" by the end of the game, but only have about half the actual points. Different levels have different amount of potential karma points in them though, so it's not all the same.

And hub worlds add all their conversations' points to "points you could have", even if you haven't even talked to anyone there yet.

Modifié par tmk, 05 octobre 2010 - 04:24 .

[jlb524]

I see what you mean. It makes sense now. Thanks tmk!

[adneate]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

I do like how Paragon Shepard resoundingly and completely disregards Cerberus and TIM at the end of the game, though. One of my favourite lines during the last conversation with TIM is Shepard's "Human dominance? Or just Cerberus?". In addition to voicing her concerns that keeping the Collector Base is morally bankrupt, Shepard is also able to be dismissive of Cerberus and it's long term goals, and once again state that she considers Cerberus to be an abhorrent terrorist organisation with extremist goals, and something that she does not want to assist at all. I liked that.

Renegades can also turn on Cerberus, the Collector Ship mission allows plenty of room for a Renegade Shepard to make it very clear that she doesn't trust Cerberus or The Illusive Man. It's a pretty awesome seeing Shepard walk into the briefing room pissed as hell and start shouting down The Illusive Man through the whole conversation. Plus when you bomb the base and have the little after chat with TIM you can be a total jerk and it's great, I love opening the conversation with "Hey you get the help you deserve", it's such a great thing to say to someone who thinks they are so smart and smug. Then you can cut him off just like the Council in ME1, "Joker lose this connection". It's less "preachy" and idealistic than the Paragon options but no less total, plus it proves that even Renegades can have limits and not believe that the ends always justify the means.

[jlb524]

Oh, I love that one line that Renegade Shep delivers to The Illusive Man after destroying the base....



It goes something like:



"Sorry, I couldn't hear you. Getting a lot of bullsh*t on this line."

[MarkusWhatever]

jlb524 wrote...

Oh, I love that one line that Renegade Shep delivers to The Illusive Man after destroying the base....

It goes something like:

"Sorry, I couldn't hear you. Getting a lot of bullsh*t on this line."

Was that after destroying the base!? In my memory it's earlier...

[jlb524]

MarkusWhatever wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Oh, I love that one line that Renegade Shep delivers to The Illusive Man after destroying the base....

It goes something like:

"Sorry, I couldn't hear you. Getting a lot of bullsh*t on this line."

Was that after destroying the base!? In my memory it's earlier...

Yes, it was after the base.

[MarkusWhatever]

jlb524 wrote...

MarkusWhatever wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Oh, I love that one line that Renegade Shep delivers to The Illusive Man after destroying the base....

It goes something like:

"Sorry, I couldn't hear you. Getting a lot of bullsh*t on this line."

Was that after destroying the base!? In my memory it's earlier...

Yes, it was after the base.

Well, guess my memory just sucks.

[adneate]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Yeah, exactly. As I said above, I get the distinct impression that, canonically, Shepard is mistrustful of Cerberus regardless of alignment.

I think it's canonical at the beginning of the game since all you know about them is that they are terrorists, which makes Jacob's constant "Do you trust me?" questions infuriating. The game gives you plenty of opportunities to make clear your distrust of the organization and it's personnel, though it should be said many of the options actually result in Renegade points and not Paragon points. It also allows you to have change of heart and support Cerberus, even upon learning of the betrayal on the Collector Ship mission. Even then It seems like pro-Cerberus Shepards still don't fully trust TIM because you still mention that Cerberus can't hold back or start fighting aliens when the Reapers arrive, if you give them the Collector base. If any thing seems canonical it's that Shepard can never fully trust Cerberus, that even if you agree with their agenda and philosophy there is always a danger posed by the organization.

[Chignon]

jlb524 wrote...

Oh, I love that one line that Renegade Shep delivers to The Illusive Man after destroying the base....

It goes something like:

"Sorry, I couldn't hear you. Getting a lot of bullsh*t on this line."

Hah, I love that one, too!

[JamieCOTC]

Liara: I know you feel this, Shepard. *smirk*

Shepard: Will you shut u -- Ooooooo.

[jlb524]

adneate wrote...

I think it's canonical at the beginning of the game since all you know about them is that they are terrorists, which makes Jacob's constant "Do you trust me?" questions infuriating. The game gives you plenty of opportunities to make clear your distrust of the organization and it's personnel, though it should be said many of the options actually result in Renegade points and not Paragon points. It also allows you to have change of heart and support Cerberus, even upon learning of the betrayal on the Collector Ship mission. Even then It seems like pro-Cerberus Shepards still don't fully trust TIM because you still mention that Cerberus can't hold back or start fighting aliens when the Reapers arrive, if you give them the Collector base. If any thing seems canonical it's that Shepard can never fully trust Cerberus, that even if you agree with their agenda and philosophy there is always a danger posed by the organization.

I think even staunch Cerberus loyalists don't fully trust The Illusive Man, tbh.  I think this is inevitable, give the nature of how the organization is setup and run by him.

[AngryFrozenWater]

I really love the discussion in the last few pages, but I think we should be careful not too go off-topic too much. We have been warned that threads like this can be closed if that happens. I would love this thread to stay open. Skip this post if you people think I should not interfere.

[Ashwraith]

jlb524 wrote...

I think even staunch Cerberus loyalists don't fully trust The Illusive Man, tbh.  I think this is inevitable, give the nature of how the organization is setup and run by him.

Hell, I'm pretty sure all of you know how I feel about the Illusive Man by this point, and even I  wouldn't trust him. XD

Modifié par Ashwraith, 05 octobre 2010 - 05:57 .

[jlb524]

Found some new fan art.







SolarDiamond

[Chignon]

jlb524 wrote...

Found some new fan art.

*snip*

SolarDiamond

Beautiful! I love how the artist used the dark red to make the picture more interesting.