42753 réponses à ce sujet

[Killjoy Cutter]

adneate wrote...

JamieCOTC wrote...
I like the quote, btw. 

If I recall correctly it's Japanese in Origin, part of the Bushido tradition of the Samurai in which self-sacrifice is a large part of a warrior's lifestyle.

You do recall correctly.

[Killjoy Cutter]

EDIT:  Double post caused by random forum "you can't do that".

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 07 octobre 2010 - 02:51 .

[f1r3storm]

Sable Phoenix wrote...

Re: numbers beating the reapers, let's consider the Battle of the Citadel.  That was one Reaper.  Yes, the geth fleet helped, but even so, that battle cost, if I remember correctly, twenty turian and eight human cruisers, unknown numbers of frigates and fighters, plus, depending on Shepard's actions, the Destiny Ascension, the largest and most powerful ship in known space.  Almost all the Alliance vessels were personally destroyed by Sovereign when it lit up those molten-metal particle beams.  This gives us approximately a twenty-eight to one ratio necessary to take on the Reapers and win, and that's with top of the line warships, not refitted cargo vessels like the quarians employ.  Sovereign claimed that the Reaper fleet would "darken the skies of every world".

Somehow, I doubt superior numbers are going to make a significant difference.  That's why I don't get it when people say they want to see space combat in the third installment.  It's not possible to beat the Reapers in a stand-up fight.  It will take investigation, ingenuity and a lot of luck.

The dark energy tie-in is obvious in ME2.  I think that Shepard's machine-ness will be a less obvious but even more critical one.

But they were also pretty much surprised at the citadel and now they have an idea of what weapons the reapers use and they might work to build proper defenses against them.

[Mox Ruuga]

f1r3storm wrote...

But they were also pretty much surprised at the citadel and now they have an idea of what weapons the reapers use and they might work to build proper defenses against them.

"Ah yes, the Reapers..."

These finger quoting schmucks are the ones busy developing new defenses against a threat they have discounted?

No, I'm fairly sure the Reapers cannot be taken out in an open fight. One, perhaps two, maybe? But the cost would be so high I'm not sure you could describe the end result as even a pyrrhic victory... Bear in mind that Sovereign wasn't out to defeat the enemy fleets either, it just waded through the Turians, and defended itself against the Alliance while attempting to take control of the Citadel. I imagine Turian casualties would have been even higher had the Reaper made them it's primary target.

[JamieCOTC]

Delerius_Jedi wrote...

@JamieCOTC: Up to and including
that video you posted I found the Jacob romance almost passable. It's
what happens after this scene that ends up making the whole thing
terrible. But in general I just think that BioWare needs to separate the
character development from the romance plots and they need to do it
fast. Dragon Age: Origins completely pummels ME1 and ME2 in this area,
so it can be done.

Thanks for pointing that out.  One thing I like about Jacob is that he is honest in his opinions about Cerberus and Shepard.  I can't recall how to get this convo, but he confesses that he didn't get what the big deal was w/ Shepard.  Why was it necessary to bring her back?  He says it in a much more backhanded compliment sort of way, but I thought it was refreshing. 

As to seperating the romance from the character development I completely agree.  While I haven't played LotSB all the way through a friend only Shep, from reading the posts of those who have, it seems like this is another area where BW has made some improvements. I understand that the femShep who romances Thane will have a different character development from the one who doesn’t, but BW almost penalizes the single femShep. Again, that is something that LotSB does so well.  She becomes a friend and rather than being deprived of development, it just develops in a different way.  I’m all for the Kaiden girls getting their due, but I want Ash and femShep to explore their girl crush, as Ashley (despite Horizon) has one for femShep.  And because of LotSB, I hopeful that will happen. 

lastpatriot wrote...

@ JamieCOTC,

I just finished reading over your “long” post and I really appreciate your comments and the level of detail you went into explaining your point of view.  The great aspect of this thread is that we all have the same basic hope which is that we can continue to build upon the “soul” (as you call it) of our own Shepard based upon her background and personality.

In my run for LotSB, my Shepard wasn’t a huge fan of Liara but she respected her knowledge and considered her a friend (my Shep is very loyal to her crew).  In ME:1, my Shepard had issues with Liara in that she considered her too emotional and unwilling to pull the trigger when necessary.  This is mainly because my Shep was a colonist with the more ruthless personality due to the horrific conditions she was forced to deal with combined with an almost uncontrollable rage towards Batarians (Bringing Down the Sky) and slavers in general.  However, as events of ME:2 unfolded, she grew to respect Liara’s new found strength and Shepard had to admit that she may have misjudged her former crew-mate.  By the end of the DLC, their friendship became something that my Shep considered to be priceless because of not just the experiences they went through, but the ability to break down those emotional walls they both had.  In the end, Shepard found that she and Liara were much more similar than she would have believed.

My point is similar to yours in that with any good RPG, I want my Shepard to be, well, mine!  We all will play the character how we feel but in the end, my experience and yours should be different and that should reflect in the character as well.

The bold text, 100%. To be honest, I don't envy BW in the balancing act between player created soul and action/adventure character.  It won't be easy and they won't please everyone.  Still, as sagequeen rightfully pointed out, LotSB infused the game w/ a big ray of hope.  In more ways than one, I say.  It’s interesting to note that both our girls are colonists however yours is (mostly?) renegade and mine is mostly paragon.  How much of that is head-canon imagination and how much is the actual game, I don’t know, but you are right. Our Shepards should be our own. 

[adneate]

Sable Phoenix wrote...

Somehow, I doubt superior numbers are going to make a significant difference.  That's why I don't get it when people say they want to see space combat in the third installment.  It's not possible to beat the Reapers in a stand-up fight.  It will take investigation, ingenuity and a lot of luck.

The dark energy tie-in is obvious in ME2.  I think that Shepard's machine-ness will be a less obvious but even more critical one.

28 to 1 is a pretty good ratio, the end screen of ME2 has about 300 Reapers in it and if the combinded fleet is 50,000 ships all races and factions that leaves the Reapers outnumbered 166 to 1. If it takes 100 ships to knock out one Reaper it will be a bloodbath but so long as the fleet stands and fights until the end we win. I'm sure there will be some dark energy macguffin in ME3 but the heavy lifting will still be done by millions of soldiers across the galaxy many of whom will die in battle against the Reapers. Previous Reaper invasions succeed by surprise (Activate the Citadel and decapitate Organic military and political leadership) and divide and conquer (Shut down the Relay network and wipe each system out individually) in an open fight against every organic lifeform in the galaxy they no longer have the overwhelming advantage they once enjoyed. No matter how powerful something is it can be taken down by those weaker than it so long as there are enough of them.

Besides how cool would it be to look out the window of the Normandy and see warships as far as the eye could see?

[f1r3storm]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

f1r3storm wrote...

But they were also pretty much surprised at the citadel and now they have an idea of what weapons the reapers use and they might work to build proper defenses against them.

"Ah yes, the Reapers..."

These finger quoting schmucks are the ones busy developing new defenses against a threat they have discounted?

Sure, although they might still not admit the existence of the reapers, they might adapt their tech to that ship that attacked the citadel. If they're smart they would.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Sable Phoenix wrote...

Re: numbers beating the reapers, let's consider the Battle of the Citadel.  That was one Reaper.  Yes, the geth fleet helped, but even so, that battle cost, if I remember correctly, twenty turian and eight human cruisers, unknown numbers of frigates and fighters, plus, depending on Shepard's actions, the Destiny Ascension, the largest and most powerful ship in known space.  Almost all the Alliance vessels were personally destroyed by Sovereign when it lit up those molten-metal particle beams.  This gives us approximately a twenty-eight to one ratio necessary to take on the Reapers and win, and that's with top of the line warships, not refitted cargo vessels like the quarians employ.  Sovereign claimed that the Reaper fleet would "darken the skies of every world".

The two Reapers we've "met" have a deep penchant for hyperboly. 

Vigil notes that it took the Reapers centuries to wipe out the Protheans.  They did so by cutting the Protheans off from the Mass Relay network and picking them off one system or a few systems at a time.  Without control of the Mass Relay network, they can't use the strategy that has served them in countless past "reapings". 

So yes, they darken the skies of every world -- just not at the same time.


As for the losses at the Battle of the Citadel, well, the fleet did get caught with their pants around their ankles, in large part because of the egocentric nature of the Council.  Our favorite Asari bartender ended up reafirming my opinion that despite their claims, the Council and the fleet were completely unprepared for what happened that day.

[Sable Phoenix]

Also remember, Sovereign's shields remained impervious to weapons fire until Shepard killed the Saren cyberzombie. That was the one and only reason the Alliance and remaining Citadel fleets could actually damage it. I doubt the Reapers will be stupid enough to all make easily killable cyberzombies to drop their shields with.

I'm just saying, if all Shep has to do is get a lot of races to band together with a lot of ships to win, I'm going to feel like she's kinda cheated out of the real ending where she makes the big difference.  I mean, that's all pretty much set up in the first game by your actions with the krogan and rachni, plus add the quarians and geth in the second.

Modifié par Sable Phoenix, 07 octobre 2010 - 03:41 .

[sagefic]

JamieCOTC wrote...
It’s interesting to note that both our girls are colonists however yours is (mostly?) renegade and mine is mostly paragon.  How much of that is head-canon imagination and how much is the actual game, I don’t know, but you are right. Our Shepards should be our own.  

agreed. (and my shep usually ends with full paragon points, but her short temper and dislike of batarians ends with about 20-25% renegade in addition to that)

but yes, that is the trick, isn't it? good dialog lets sheps become more the players, and a lot of that means needing times where the NPCs allow shep to speak about her past, her plans, and her thoughts on the matter at hand

[Airell]

I am hopeing Mass Effect 3 will be out chrismas 2011 or early spring 2012 if what heard is true.

Than my shep and her blue barry can start a new life togather.

[Chignon]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

"Ah yes, the Reapers..."

These finger quoting schmucks are the ones busy developing new defenses against a threat they have discounted?

It'd spare my poor FemShep some nerves if Harbinger had to deal with the same. Just imagine:

Modifié par Chignon, 07 octobre 2010 - 04:22 .

[jlb524]

LOL! That's funny, Chignon.

[Jagged Orchid]

That was hilarious, lol

[Chignon]

I love the comic, too. Channet made it - you can find her on deviantArt. (:

Modifié par Chignon, 07 octobre 2010 - 04:04 .

[Fraevar]

Lol, awesome, Chignon.

[adneate]

Sable Phoenix wrote...
I'm just saying, if all Shep has to do is get a lot of races to band together with a lot of ships to win, I'm going to feel like she's kinda cheated out of the real ending where she makes the big difference.  I mean, that's all pretty much set up in the first game by your actions with the krogan and rachni, plus add the quarians and geth in the second.

I don't know about that I'm sure Shepard and company would still have to do something suitibly suicidal even in an all out battle between two massive fleets. The game is about shooting things with guns as such the final mission will involve shooting things with guns.  Since Harbringer is the big bad now, I'd put money of Shepard having to take it down, maybe with a boarding action of some kind with plenty of indoctrinated soldiers to blast through and a bomb or thing to blow up. The Dragon Age ending involved huge armies duking it out but you still had to go in with your team and cut the head off the snake so to speak. I'd just be worried about a Deus Ex Machina ending in which Shepard finds some thing and then beats the Reapers with it and wins, that would be a really crappy ending to the trilogy.

[JamieCOTC]

f1r3storm wrote...

That basically sums up my thoughts everytime when i see the ending of ME2.

The way I see it, there are thousands of Reapers out in dark space and their only problem is getting from point A (dark space) to point B (Citadel/Galactic civilization).  Still, that’s a pretty big freaking problem, even for them.  I guess that’s where dark energy comes in.  My question is will Shep’s mission be to “push them back into dark space” or destroy them forever?  I recall a BW dev saying that LotSB would give clues to what would be happening in ME3.  Most of the hints seem to be focused on Shepard personally, Liara as SB, killing a Spectre, etc, but Liara does mention the former SB was searching for more info on the Protheans which leads me to believe that Shepard will play a much more personal role in the final battle. She still has the cipher and the vision.  Who knows, she may even have Reaper tech herself.  We know EDI does and TIM did experiment on another human w/ Reaper tech in the latest novel.  While I still believe Shep is going to have to unite the galaxy, perhaps even the Batarians and Mercs she gave a hurting on, I think she will be at least in part, the key to the whole thing.  Of course part of me is torn.  Video games are narcissistic enough w/out the main characters becoming godlike saviors.  IF Shep is the key, (and that’s just my own personal theory) she’s still going to have to work and even suffer for it.  Then again, maybe the Keepers will band together and slow down the Reapers themselves w/ rocks and tree limbs and then Boo, the Space hamster turn into a giant hamster Anti-Reaper and destroy them all.  
 

Sable Phoenix wrote...
Also remember, Sovereign's shields remained impervious to weapons fire until Shepard killed the Saren cyberzombie. That was the one and only reason the Alliance and remaining Citadel fleets could actually damage it. I doubt the Reapers will be stupid enough to all make easily killable cyberzombies to drop their shields with.

That’s a good point, however Sovereign was in a pickle too. Shepard was about to cut him off from bringing back the other Reapers.  He had to do something.  And Reaper Cyberzombies!!! I can see it now, Cyberzombie Kaiden will be leading the Reaper attack!!

Okay, Cyberzombie Kaiden may be a bit much, but still, CyberZombies!!! This has to be in ME3! 

Modifié par JamieCOTC, 07 octobre 2010 - 04:26 .

[Chignon]

JamieCOTC wrote...

I can see it now, Cyberzombie Kaiden will be leading the Reaper attack!! This has to be in ME3!

Okay, Cyberzombie Kaiden may be a bit much, but still, CyberZombies!!! This has to be in ME3! 

No. Just no. I don't want to see an indoctrinated VS Cyberzombie. Ever. Virmire was hard enough without being forced into killing one of them yet again.

[JamieCOTC]

Chignon wrote...

JamieCOTC wrote...

I can see it now, Cyberzombie Kaiden will be leading the Reaper attack!! This has to be in ME3!

Okay, Cyberzombie Kaiden may be a bit much, but still, CyberZombies!!! This has to be in ME3! 

No. Just no. I don't want to see an indoctrinated VS Cyberzombie. Ever. Virmire was hard enough without being forced into killing one of them yet again.

Okay, I was just kidding about the Kaiden Cyberzombie.  Besides, he probably wouldn't fit into a dust pan and not even the Reapers are that all powerful. 

Unless of course ... they got him out just in the nick of time ...

[Chignon]

JamieCOTC wrote...

Okay, I was just kidding about the Kaiden Cyberzombie.  Besides, he probably wouldn't fit into a dust pan and not even the Reapers are that all powerful. 

Unless of course ... they got him out just in the nick of time ...

Alright. Although I really thought about that and I just hate to see it happen to Ash.

Okay, happy thoughts:

[sagefic]

JamieCOTC wrote...
Video games are narcissistic enough w/out the main characters becoming godlike saviors.  

SOooo true. part of why i loved ME1 was that it walked that line nicely. Shep is a savior, but she really had to fight for it and she did it with a team at her back.

ME2 really pushed shep into christ-figure territory, what with the team of 12 disciples squaddies and the raising from the dead and stuff (and lazarus, legion, etc.)

I hope that the way to defeat the reapers is tied to the reapers REASONS for taking on the galaxy. I mean, we still really have no idea what they're after. I have a few theories bouncing around in my head, but none are terribly well supported. If Shep can figure out what they want and why, then that has to go a long way to figuring out how to stop them.

BTW, random question - I personally found the idea that reapers were made from juiced organics highly interesting and "gah! yuck!" but also highly compelling. i didn't even think about the human reaper being terminator like because i was too distracted by thinking over the implications of what that would mean.

would you all have preferred the human-made reaper to look like the other reapers or did you find the very concept of reapers being made from organics stupid?

[adneate]

JamieCOTC wrote...

Okay, I was just kidding about the Kaiden Cyberzombie. Besides, he probably wouldn't fit into a dust pan and not even the Reapers are that all powerful.

Reapers no. Writers yes.



Though it would be one hell of a stretch because I'm pretty sure sitting on a nuke would vaporize the individual in question.



I think it will be a Jacob Cyberzombie and he will destroy the galaxy with boredom! Yet even as a glowing cybernetic skeleton FemShep will still be too flirty while talking to it. Palms will hit faces the world over and somewhere deep in the BioWare studios a writer will be pleased.