42753 réponses à ce sujet

[adneate]

Sable Phoenix wrote...

Shepard, the person, is now in heaven (or hell, I suppose, depending on how many of her actions were morally justified), or nirvana, or on her way to being reincarnated, or if you're depressingly nihilistic, has dissipated into nothingness.  Now we're just left with Shepard, the program.

Not to get too Metaphysical but how closely linked are consciousness and the body? The body can exist without consciousness (being Brain dead for example) but can consciousness exist without the body? Is consciousness soley the property of the brain or is it more intangible with part of it being in this "soul" that resides in the body? If Shepard is simply a nervous system in a casing of cybernetics but said nervous system is entirely intact and original is there a marked change in one's state of consciousness? Has the soul been lost or has it been retained by keeping the brain intact?

For me so long as the brain exists as it did before the body is irrelevent to one's existence, you could stick Shepard's brain into a Dreadnought and that would now be her physical manifestation in this world. The Degree of bio-synthetic fusion in the reconstructed Shepard is for me, already on the extreme end of the spectrum essentially being the original Shepard's brain and nervous system stuck into a cybernetic skeleton wrapped in cloned muscle and skin tissue that is also studded with cybernetics. Loss of the body means loss of one's old physical identity and a crisis of identity but your state of consciousness remains unchanged, you are still you merely interacting with this world in a new or different way.

[ADLegend21]

how did we get into a metaphysical discussion again???

[Fiery Phoenix]

Well, that was an interesting discussion to read while having my yogurt.

[jlb524]

ADLegend21 wrote...

how did we get into a metaphysical discussion again???

It seems like the fans need to add depth to the Shepard character (especially in the dealings with her death), since is was lacking in ME2. 

[JamieCOTC]

Shepard, the can opener with a soul? 

So weird.  I watched the Seventh Seal last night and that’s what that movie is all about, death and the crossing over into nothingness.
 
Yeah, the whole bringing Shep back to life after being a frozen lump of charred flesh and bones is a little too much to swallow.  It’s almost as ridiculous as all 12 main characters taking off in a shuttle during a crucial point in ship/IFF fusion.  But I digress … Yeah, it’s a science fiction action game and we all play the way we want to play and that’s cool, but it would be nice to have more moments of reflection.  Who is Shepard?  Is she human, machine or both?  Is she still the same Shepard?  I think Sable Phoenix makes a compelling argument that she may not be the same person.  The thing I need to ask is what were the writer’s intentions? Honestly, Shep coming back from the dead was just a plot device to let new players “start fresh.”  I think it matters much more to the plot that Shep is now part machine.  Will she get to reflect on that? I hope so, but I have my doubts.

For me, for my head-canon, Shepard is going to fight w/ every fiber of her being to remain as human as she can be.  Will she sacrifice her humanity for the greater good? Yes.  She won’t like it, but she will do it.  Is she still Shepard?  Within the confines of the story, yes, I think she is.  Mass Effect seems to be a very secular game, the antithesis of Dragon Age.  Certainly there is religion in the universe, it wouldn’t be realistic if there wasn’t, but there is no discernable proof of a soul, or heaven or anything else.  Samara even goes out of her way to point out that Asari, though seemingly mystical, are not magical.  Then there is Ashley who does believe in god, but from the convo in ME1 seems to take some heat for her beliefs. Again, this leads me to believe that the human race of ME is primarily secular and so is the game universe.  Therefore, Shepard doesn’t need a soul to come back and as long as consciousness is there, she is there.  Can this theory then conflict w/ player’s own real world views, certainly.  It even conflicts w/ my own views, but at the end of the day, it’s just a game.  The ultimate irony is that Shepard does indeed have a soul, the one I gave her. 

[Fiery Phoenix]

jlb524 wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

how did we get into a metaphysical discussion again???

It seems like the fans need to add depth to the Shepard character (especially in the dealings with her death), since is was lacking in ME2. 

This is exactly why I loved the scene with Liara on the Normandy. Those 2-3 minutes made Shepard suddenly more human than the rest of ME2.

[jlb524]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

how did we get into a metaphysical discussion again???

It seems like the fans need to add depth to the Shepard character (especially in the dealings with her death), since is was lacking in ME2. 

This is exactly why I loved the scene with Liara on the Normandy. Those 2-3 minutes made Shepard suddenly more human than the rest of ME2.

Yeah, it wasn't all that much, but that little addition went a long way towards making Shepard seem human again.

[JamieCOTC]

Ashley: Shepard? Do you remember anything from when you were …
Shepard: Dead? No. I remember the Normandy blowing up and then … I think it was Miranda checking on me ... but I'm not sure.
Ashley: You're not sure? What do you mean?
Shepard: Either it was Miranda or ... God is a woman w/ big ****** and a mighty fine ass.
Ashley: You’re right. It was probably Miranda.

Modifié par JamieCOTC, 07 octobre 2010 - 08:33 .

[adneate]

ADLegend21 wrote...

how did we get into a metaphysical discussion again???

We also get into the discussion of what makes a Human being and where does one stop being a human and start being something else. I think we already blew way past that point, the problem is nobody seems to care, I'm sure Shepard has to be careful when interacting with Humans since she could probably crush every bone in someone's hand without breaking a sweat. She's something else in the shape of a human, however mentally she still has the outlook of a human and continuing to look like a Human probably makes it pretty easy to just think of oneself as a human with extraordinary abilities.

Still makes you wonder if Shepard should go to a Doctor or a Mechanic . . .

[lastpatriot]

JamieCOTC wrote...


Question for you on your renegade.  Since she is nice to the crew and ruthless to her enemies does she accumulate enough renegade points to get the extra dialog, say in Tali’s trial?  One of the complaints of the ME2 system seems to be that a character has to be fairly top heavy on one side or the other to get all the extra dialogue.  I was just curious. 

Being as this was an import of my ME:1 character, she actually has only about 48 points more in the renegade side than she does on the paragon side so in most cases, she is given the option for both.  It's kind of funny how that works as if I didn't import the character, I'd never have that chance.  So far though, I haven't run into a situation where she didn't have enough points for both options though I've done the trail part on this current run.

[jwalker]

ADLegend21 wrote...

jwalker wrote...

Kelly ? I see no chapter with Kelly ... or that would be to 'easy' ?:innocent:

I'm mostly aiming for crack pairings, things you can't see in the actual games or novels, which is why I'm actualyl kinda hesitant about parasini and Shiala since they've shown an intrest in shepard and Kelly is the less awesome version of Liara because she can go both ways. but I think I couldbe able to work Kelly into a chapter if nothing else pops into my head or is suggested.

Ok, what about involving the journalist (can't even google the name) ? After all the punches, she deserves some love too....

[lastpatriot]

@Adneate



I just wanted to say that I love your forums avatar!

[jwalker]

JamieCOTC wrote...

Catching up with the last 20 pages …

Love and Death and Commander Shepard

....

Thanks. I never heard those dialogs either. Too bad they're only 'available' if you romance Jacob. It seems kinda of unfair that she only share those thoughts with him. Shepard might do that with Garrus, Tali, Liara, regardless of romance.

The Four Billion Dollar Woman
...

The first time I played ME2 I kept thinking for hours "what is she now, a cyborg or what?" But nothing in the game, maybe except for the skin weave description, took in account Shepard's upgrades.
I forgot all about that, and then, months later Overlord DLC. Shepard gets hacked by an AI !! Just like that, out of the blue... I hope there will be more about this in future dlc or ME3...

Lay Down, Kelly
....

Loved it. Way to go, Kelly!!
She knows what she wants, she konws how to get it ...

5 Easy Reasons to Love FemShep

1.      Jennifer Hale’s VA. femShep’s gender is almost never relevant to the story, but Hale’s performance somehow makes it relevant.   She can bark the commands, dig in the knife w/ p*ss off attitude, be a friend and melt cold steel w/ her sensual voice.  What else do you want?

2.      She is a strong female character who is thrust into a leadership position and then stacked against almost impossible odds.  She pulls no punches and makes no apologies for her decisions.  She is a leader and in the real world that shouldn’t matter, but in the gaming world, that it does matter because it is so rare.

3.      I know the expressions between femShep and dudeShep are normally identical, but for some reason, she pulls it off better.  Something about the combination of Hale’s VA and the femShep animations bring her to
life.  Almost as if the player were controlling a talented actress. 

4.      Her figure. femShep looks real and for the star of an action/rpg/space opera that is quite an accomplishment.  Miranda has the T&A covered in spades, so femShep can just be her own natural self. femShep is no slouch, but neither is she unrealistically big in some places while unrealistically small in others.  (Somewhere Laura Croft is screaming, “But they’re real, I swear!”)

5.      Mine has pretty blue eyes and she’s hot. 

QFT

Pararenaggedon
....

I think the ME1 system was a bit better. If you wanted to rely more on intimidation or charm you could just pour some points in there and make it work, but in ME2, the obscure meassure of a red/blue bar still puzzling for me. That's how I got Jack killed in my first playthrough. I couldn't defuse her fight with Miranda and then never caught up with the system to have enough to charm/intimidate her into loyalty again.

[jlb524]

jwalker wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

jwalker wrote...

Kelly ? I see no chapter with Kelly ... or that would be to 'easy' ?:innocent:

I'm mostly aiming for crack pairings, things you can't see in the actual games or novels, which is why I'm actualyl kinda hesitant about parasini and Shiala since they've shown an intrest in shepard and Kelly is the less awesome version of Liara because she can go both ways. but I think I couldbe able to work Kelly into a chapter if nothing else pops into my head or is suggested.

Ok, what about involving the journalist (can't even google the name) ? After all the punches, she deserves some love too....

Khalisah al-Jilani.  We know she has a thing for asari, though.

[jwalker]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

A few hours ago, I'd just played through and completed Garrus' recruitment mission with my canon Shepard. I have to say, I absolutely love Shepard's facial expression in response to the batarian merc recruiter's sexist remarks in which he directs her to the strippers' quarters. I actually prefer that response over the usage of the Renegade interrupt, as Shepard's facial expression is just priceless. She gives him this look as if she intends to break his legs for making such a sexist remark towards her. It's hilarious!

I really do hope that BioWare increasingly implement FemShep exclusive dialogue into the game, similar to the above. Again, the fact that Joker's remark to a romanced Liara in LotSB varies depending on Shepard's gender is definitely a step in the right direction, and extremely encouraging. I actually like hearing my Shepard referred to with feminine pronouns. It's cool, and results in a greater level of immersion.

I played that mission last night too. 
That's the only time a NPC reacts differently to shep's gender, right ?

Edit: I forgot about Gianna Parasini. She kisses maleshep if you help her on Illium.

Modifié par jwalker, 07 octobre 2010 - 09:03 .

[JamieCOTC]

jlb524 wrote...

jwalker wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

jwalker wrote...

Kelly ? I see no chapter with Kelly ... or that would be to 'easy' ?:innocent:

I'm mostly aiming for crack pairings, things you can't see in the actual games or novels, which is why I'm actualyl kinda hesitant about parasini and Shiala since they've shown an intrest in shepard and Kelly is the less awesome version of Liara because she can go both ways. but I think I couldbe able to work Kelly into a chapter if nothing else pops into my head or is suggested.

Ok, what about involving the journalist (can't even google the name) ? After all the punches, she deserves some love too....

Khalisah al-Jilani.  We know she has a thing for asari, though.

That would be interesting.  Also, it's not likely we'll see femShep and Parasini.  Just saying ...

[sagefic]

JamieCOTC wrote...

Love and Death and Commander Shepard

Now I am thinking of that Woody Allen film.

yeah. i have no problem with the metaphysical discussion, but then, that's me. i couldn't see shep fall off into the atmo of alchera without going "sweet! begin interesting plot twists considering what it really means to be human NOW." and then... nothing.

but then, i find "what does it really mean to be human" a fascinating question. it's part of why i like the human squaddies so much. aliens are cool and all, but i really find the question of who we are and what we're about as a speices very intersting. it's a question you can ask and take the answer home with you, so to speak.

i find it fascinating that shep's been brought back by a pro-human group to specifically save humans and yet shep hardly is one anymore - or if she is, it's not because of what cerberus did for her - it's because of who she chooses to be and how she chooses to deal with the situation. 

eh, i'm getting soapboxy on this one. my fanfic has multiple chapters that touch on this, because the lack of consideration of it just bugged me so dang much. I don't see Shep as naval-gazing when there is a battle to be fought, but when she's alone in that huge cabin at night, looking up into the skylight over her bed, i think she's smart enough and insightful enough to think about these things, especially if she's the same woman who could so eloquently talk to other people about THEIR problems at every turn.

Modifié par sagequeen, 07 octobre 2010 - 09:07 .

[adneate]

lastpatriot wrote...

@Adneate

I just wanted to say that I love your forums avatar!

I can't take much credit, a friend from the Dragon Age Character Creator forums wanted to practice her drawing skills so she thought an interesting way to do it was draw the various characters people had made. I got her to draw my Shepard then I just found a background for it.

Schratty's Blog

Modifié par adneate, 07 octobre 2010 - 09:06 .

[Vralenalien]

JamieCOTC wrote...

Ashley: Shepard? Do you remember anything from when you were …
Shepard: Dead? No. I remember the Normandy blowing up and then … I think it was Miranda checking on me ... but I'm not sure.
Ashley: You're not sure? What do you mean?
Shepard: Either it was Miranda or ... God is a woman w/ big ****** and a mighty fine ass.
Ashley: You’re right. It was probably Miranda.

That made me chuckle.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Sable Phoenix wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Would you gals and guys allow your FemSheps to become more 'machine' in ME3 (for whatever reason), or do you want her to try and become less machine...less reliant on the implants Cerberus gave her (if possible)?

I'm fine with her being a machine now.  As I've mentioned before, I personally think she's now just as much a synthetic as a geth, except that her quantum blue box is organic (i.e., brain tissue).  It's the only way I can reconcile bringing someone "back from the dead", supposedly.  In my mind, as awful as it may sound, the real Shepard is dead, permanently.  I don't care how advanced technology becomes, when someone's reduced to a decompressed, frozen corpse for a minimum of a few weeks, there is no coming back from that.  We'll never be able to pull the life force, the soul if you will, back into a dead body.  Shepard is now an advanced AI program based upon her Alliance medical records scans, installed into an organic blue box.  There's no question this is an amazing scientific and technological achievement, but while she may be nearly indistinguishable from the original, she's no more the real Shepard than the SR2 is the "real Normandy", to steal one of her own quotes.

It's not the flesh that makes someone human.  It's what they think, what they feel, how they treat others, and so on.

Many of the cells and molecules in your own body have been replaced over the course of your life.  Is it that change which makes you not quite the person you were a decade ago, or is it the things you've learned, the things you've felt, the people you've known?

[Chugster]

mashavasilec wrote...

Does anyone have a screenshot of how the most read hair look in ME2? Preferably on non-modded haircuts

my canon Shep has the reddest hair (assuming you meant red and not read), here are some other pics as well




and on on modded hair...just coz i love this shot

Modifié par Chugster, 07 octobre 2010 - 10:50 .