42753 réponses à ce sujet

[Iwakura-Lain]

Ashwraith wrote...

NamiraWilhelm wrote...

Since we've had games like DA, KOTOR, and ME especially (as in a game where being female is actually recognised in game and becomes part of the story etc.), do you guys now get put off by games that allow only male protagonists to be played?

I definitely find myself turning my nose up to games that dont allow me a choice.

No, of course not.
I like being able to play as female, but I'm not going to refuse to play a game if it doesn't allow that option. That's just childish- it's a bit like someone offering you a delicious hot fudge sundae, and refusing it out of principle because they're using chocolate ice cream instead of vanilla.

Imagine I were a native, and you just traded me some food for a shiny mirror. Now, not knowing better, I think your little trinket is God's gift to earth. Okay, few years later. Civilization has caught up with us, and I have a big-screen TV at home already. Now, do you still think you'll be able to trade me a lame mirror? That's what the difference between male shep and Femshep boils down to for me. Once exposed to playing a superb female lead, voiced by a superb female lead, there's just no going back for me any more. You can pretty much use any analogy. Like finding Shakespeare after only having read amature poetry. Or after hearing 7.1 DTS-MA audio, after thinking 192Kbs 2.0 stereo was the greatest thing ever. Point is: once you're exposed to something better, lowering your standards to 'before' is always harder.

(...). I would have never played Half-Life or its sequels.

Except HL2 wasn't exactly an RPG now, was it? It was a great game, and, amittedly, I had a bit of a crush on Alyx Vance, but that was just *me* -- not me identifying myself with Gordon. Big difference.

A good game is a good game. Period.

And good food is good food. Doesn't mean all good food is for everyone, though.

It shouldn't matter what gender the character on the cover is.

Now that's a whole different topic altogether.

[AngryFrozenWater]

jlb524 wrote...

LiquidGrape wrote...

To be honest, I don't think Shepard is much of a character in and of her/himself. You are only allowed some rudimentary characterisation, and there are no real opportunities for introspection which would serve to make Shep a more substantial character.
FemShep benefits from Hale's performance as an actor, but it's really the only divider.
But I also think that is part of her appeal. She isn't a whole other character in comparison with MaleShep, only the flip-side of the same coin. And I think it's a very positive thing that the two receive the same overall treatment throughout either game, the concept of gender rendered pretty much useless.

Right, there really isn't that much difference between the two in game (except, FemShep seems to get all the bugs and animation hangups) except for the voice acting and romances (but those are optional anyway).

You mentioned the one big difference, Hale's performance. She just brings so much life to the character that (I feel) is sorely lacking in the other version. She's not unemotional or stoic, so I find her more compelling as a leader and as a character.

Another thing we have to consider is gender roles....like I mentioned, we've seen tons of guys in this same role (super bad-ass space marine, saving the galaxy), most even look and act the same. It's so very very rare to see a female in this situation. It reminds me of what happened in my SciFi literature class in college, when we read, 'Starship Troopers'. The professor asked the class if a female could have fulfilled the role of the book's protagonist (another male space marine) and a surprising amount of the class answered 'no'. I, as well as the professor, argued 'yes', of course.

But, it goes to show you how rare it is to see a female fill the role of the 'badass space marine' in Science Fiction. The genre has been completely male dominated for many many years, with females only serving roles as being hot-alien babes or femme fatale androids, etc.

So, yes, even though both FemShep and MaleShep are nearly identical in ME, the little things I discussed above go along way into making FemShep a much much better character, IMO.

Woah. You made an excellent post, jlb.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 16 octobre 2010 - 05:33 .

[NamiraWilhelm]

i wasnt quite sure where you were going with that in the beginning @Iwakura lol, but very well said

[LiquidGrape]

jlb524 wrote...

LiquidGrape wrote...

To be honest, I don't think Shepard is much of a character in and of her/himself. You are only allowed some rudimentary characterisation, and there are no real opportunities for introspection which would serve to make Shep a more substantial character.
FemShep benefits from Hale's performance as an actor, but it's really the only divider.
But I also think that is part of her appeal. She isn't a whole other character in comparison with MaleShep, only the flip-side of the same coin. And I think it's a very positive thing that the two receive the same overall treatment throughout either game, the concept of gender rendered pretty much useless.

Right, there really isn't that much difference between the two in game (except, FemShep seems to get all the bugs and animation hangups) except for the voice acting and romances (but those are optional anyway).

You mentioned the one big difference, Hale's performance. She just brings so much life to the character that (I feel) is sorely lacking in the other version. She's not unemotional or stoic, so I find her more compelling as a leader and as a character.

Another thing we have to consider is gender roles....like I mentioned, we've seen tons of guys in this same role (super bad-ass space marine, saving the galaxy), most even look and act the same. It's so very very rare to see a female in this situation. It reminds me of what happened in my SciFi literature class in college, when we read, 'Starship Troopers'. The professor asked the class if a female could have fulfilled the role of the book's protagonist (another male space marine) and a surprising amount of the class answered 'no'. I, as well as the professor, argued 'yes', of course.

But, it goes to show you how rare it is to see a female fill the role of the 'badass space marine' in Science Fiction. The genre has been completely male dominated for many many years, with females only serving roles as being hot-alien babes or femme fatale androids, etc.

So, yes, even though both FemShep and MaleShep are nearly identical in ME, the little things I discussed above go along way into making FemShep a much much better character, IMO.

Well, that's pretty much what I was saying. FemShep fills the same shoes as MaleShep, no questions asked. That's the subversive aspect of Mass Effect, that femShep isn't tweaked and prodded to fit into some arbitrary definition of femininity, but is rather accepted as a perfectly capable leader from the get-go.

Modifié par LiquidGrape, 16 octobre 2010 - 05:43 .

[adneate]

yorkj86 wrote...

Some video game companies and film companies have found that casting women in a leading role leads to decreased sales. I don't know how it's possible to judge that, since they don't simultaneously release an identical game/movie, but with a male in the leading role instead, but apparently it's quantifiable. So, those companies are hesitant to release games and movies with women in leading roles, because they could bomb. It's not right, but there it is.

The danger in that line of reasoning is that they might be mistaking correlation for causation.

[Iwakura-Lain]

adneate wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...

Some video game companies and film companies have found that casting women in a leading role leads to decreased sales. I don't know how it's possible to judge that, since they don't simultaneously release an identical game/movie, but with a male in the leading role instead, but apparently it's quantifiable. So, those companies are hesitant to release games and movies with women in leading roles, because they could bomb. It's not right, but there it is.

The danger in that line of reasoning is that they might be mistaking correlation for causation.

And even more dangerous than that, such line of reasoning becomes its own self-fulfilling prophecy: the more male leads are affirmed in their 'natural' leadership role, the less folks will accept women in those positions.

[Chugster]

ok...this is starting to sound like a scientific debate....Femshep doesnt do scientific....Femshep does big guns

[Vralenalien]

Chugster wrote...

ok...this is starting to sound like a scientific debate....Femshep doesnt do scientific....Femshep does big guns

Agreed

[Captain Crash]

Or a Falcon Punch care of adneate awesome femshep 

[Captain Crash]

 Or maybe ElE's  Biotic's


Eithier way someones about to have a real bad day!  

[Sable Phoenix]

Good grief, this thread is impossible to keep up with!  Just have to say, great screenies and manips, especially the one of Liara and Shep cuddling.

re: the rest of the discussion, I just realized something a couple days ago as I was driving around for work thinking of my femShep.  I'm actually glad that BioWare did not make femShep the "default".  Not having a default, supposedly iconic marketing image of the character I'm playing allows me to posess her more completely.  Sheploo, and by extension male Shepard as a category regardless of character customization, "belongs" to BioWare; they have taken posession of him in order to use him to promote the series.  That's fine, I don't begrudge them that at all, because that means I can own my femShep as a stagehand working to co-create her story, rather than being charged admission to watch the main attraction.

Does that make any sense at all?

Modifié par Sable Phoenix, 16 octobre 2010 - 06:25 .

[ADLegend21]

whoa....somuch to catch up on! @_@

[ADLegend21]

Also, I found somehting interesting with that other version of Angela Shep when I romanced Jacob. in the convo that would amke it so Jacob visits her cabin before the suicide mission there's a renegade option that reads "now you can finally open up to me" and she mentions that she "tries to help people she gets close to, it's what she does" and Jacob gets mad and dumps her for trying to invent problems.

[Sable Phoenix]

ADLegend21 wrote...

Also, I found somehting interesting with that other version of Angela Shep when I romanced Jacob. in the convo that would amke it so Jacob visits her cabin before the suicide mission there's a renegade option that reads "now you can finally open up to me" and she mentions that she "tries to help people she gets close to, it's what she does" and Jacob gets mad and dumps her for trying to invent problems.

I've never played Jacob's romance, but from the videos I've seen, it seems really difficult to make him not dump femShep.  Kinda wierd, when most BioWare romances basically throw themselves at your head, or won't stop a romance unless you as the player specifically stop it.  For such an easygoing guy, he's awfully suspicious and defensive.

Modifié par Sable Phoenix, 16 octobre 2010 - 06:25 .

[Sable Phoenix]

rynluna wrote...

Chugster wrote...

ok...this is starting to sound like a scientific debate....Femshep doesnt do scientific....Femshep does big guns

Exactly. 

My femShep is an Infiltrator.  Half her skillset is based on her omnitool.  She pulls apart hardsuits and tweaks their mods for fun, or manually redefines her sniper-rifle's targeting computer profile.  Jessica Shepard does scientific and big guns, thank you very much. 



"This is an M-5 Phalanx hypervelocity pistol.  The most powerful handgun in the galaxy.  And I've modded the heatsink to vent through the mass effect generator.  So you gotta ask yourself, did she fire nineteen shots, or twenty?  Do you feel lucky?"

Modifié par Sable Phoenix, 16 octobre 2010 - 06:43 .

[Jade Elf]

yorkj86 wrote...

adneate wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...

Some video game companies and film companies have found that casting women in a leading role leads to decreased sales. I don't know how it's possible to judge that, since they don't simultaneously release an identical game/movie, but with a male in the leading role instead, but apparently it's quantifiable. So, those companies are hesitant to release games and movies with women in leading roles, because they could bomb. It's not right, but there it is.

The danger in that line of reasoning is that they might be mistaking correlation for causation.

Etiology is no match for the Almighty Dollar!

Heh. But there's always exceptions. Ellen Ripley!

Back to FemShep. Here's Anne from ME1.


Some of you might remember that she looks quite different compared to my previous pics of her in ME2. The original reason for changing her was the character creator, when it showed her at the start of a new game(ok, I forgot to take a screenshot though). To me at the time - this was back in March - she didn't look anything like her ME1 appearance, so I rushed to give her a new look... The other day though, on a whim I decided to actually try and at least play through the first mission or two to see what she actually looks like in ME2.

Back-to-the-original Anne ME2 pics coming up!

[Iwakura-Lain]

scampermax wrote...

I use the Mass Effect 2 - Clean Movie mod for flycam and to move around during cutscenes you need to hold down the control key while moving the camera.

http://social.biowar...m/project/2825/

It works pretty good, but can be a little tricky because sometimes Shepard or one of the squadies will teleport or go out of focus.

Flycam in cutscenes!? Now that's an enticing thought!

You can't pause cutscenes, though, right?

[rage-monk]

Sable Phoenix wrote...
[...]
re: the rest of the discussion, I just realized something a couple days ago as I was driving around for work thinking of my femShep.  I'm actually glad that BioWare did not make femShep the "default".  Not having a default, supposedly iconic marketing image of the character I'm playing allows me to posess her more completely.  Sheploo, and by extension male Shepard as a category regardless of character customization, "belongs" to BioWare; they have taken posession of him in order to use him to promote the series.  That's fine, I don't begrudge them that at all, because that means I can own my femShep as a stagehand working to co-create her story, rather than being charged admission to watch the main attraction.

Does that make any sense at all?

I say it does.
I always find it very irritating to hear FemShep but at the same time see an unknown Person (in fanvids). It just kinda feels wrong.
I was very unhappy with my first FemShep - Delila - and dumped her after the first playthrough and then it took a whole completionistic round to get used to her replacement: Laura.
So yeah, it's kinda sad FemShep doesn't get the "official" public attention she deserves. But this way it's easier to take "posession" of her.

[Jade Elf]

I believe Sage previously mentioned that for cutscenes you need to position the cam beforehand, and generally requires trial and error experimentation.

[jlb524]

Sable Phoenix wrote...

re: the rest of the discussion, I just realized something a couple days ago as I was driving around for work thinking of my femShep.  I'm actually glad that BioWare did not make femShep the "default".  Not having a default, supposedly iconic marketing image of the character I'm playing allows me to posess her more completely.  Sheploo, and by extension male Shepard as a category regardless of character customization, "belongs" to BioWare; they have taken posession of him in order to use him to promote the series.  That's fine, I don't begrudge them that at all, because that means I can own my femShep as a stagehand working to co-create her story, rather than being charged admission to watch the main attraction.

Does that make any sense at all?

Yes, that makes sense.  He's the one they claim is 'pre-defined' (which is why he can't be a homosexual, for one) as he is the one they use as the face of their game.  I joke that Sheploo is Casey Hudson's Shepard, as he is.  It seems as if most people use the Sheploo face when playing the game as a male also.  I think a larger percentage of DudeShep players tend to use the default more than the FemShep players dp...most of us make our own FemShep, and are very proud of her (we show off screens shots of her almost like she's our child or something )

I do agree that I feel like she is mine more than just a character BW made (as they didn't make her design...I did).  I also don't have to watch her doing things in promotional material and videos that she wouldn't do.  For instance, punching out a reporter or romancing Jacob.   When I see the commercials with Sheploo punching out reporters or womanizing, this doesn't bother me as that's not my Shepard, not even close....doens't sound like her....and I have a complete 100% disconnect with him.  He's just 'some dude they use to market the game, but isn't the real Commander Shepard' in my eyes.

Would I feel the same way if the default marketed Shepard was 'Jane Shepard'?  IDK...maybe I would feel more of a connection to her...for one, she would sound exactly like my Shepard.  She would look the exact same except for the face and hair.  I think I would perhaps feel some connection to her, even though she's not mine. 

Modifié par jlb524, 16 octobre 2010 - 06:53 .

[Chugster]

Sable Phoenix wrote...

Good grief, this thread is impossible to keep up with!  Just have to say, great screenies and manips, especially the one of Liara and Shep cuddling.

re: the rest of the discussion, I just realized something a couple days ago as I was driving around for work thinking of my femShep.  I'm actually glad that BioWare did not make femShep the "default".  Not having a default, supposedly iconic marketing image of the character I'm playing allows me to posess her more completely.  Sheploo, and by extension male Shepard as a category regardless of character customization, "belongs" to BioWare; they have taken posession of him in order to use him to promote the series.  That's fine, I don't begrudge them that at all, because that means I can own my femShep as a stagehand working to co-create her story, rather than being charged admission to watch the main attraction.

Does that make any sense at all?

yup...agree totally