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FemShep Fan Thread- Show me yours, tough guy. I bet mine's bigger!


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#24426
SkaldFish

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EDIT: TOP...
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@f1r3storm: Great  interview -- thanks for sharing! One observation...

f1r3storm wrote...

As promised, the parts of my Dragon Age 2 interview regarding female characters.


Eurogamer: BioWares Producer Jesse Houston recently said on Twitter that he thinks male Hawke is just as iconic as Male Shepard from Mass Effect and, although Female Shepard was the fan favorite, marketing prefers to use the male versions. Why is that?


--snip--

The reason it's iconic is that you have to go with one.

--snip--


Only if you don't understand the meaning of "iconic." Or if you are way too much of a fan of the Highlander movies.

An iconic character is a memorable or exemplary instance of a trope. For example, in the case of male vs. female default Shepard profiles in ME, there are going to be many differences between the pivotal, psyche-changing experiences of a man who grew up running with orphan gangs on Earth, then became a soldier, then was the sole survivor of a disaster, and a woman with the same background. We are talking about two tropes here, not one, which means the potential for iconic characterizations is two, not one.

A great example of this is Battlestar Galactica's Starbuck. In the original series, Starbuck was a man. When the news broke that this character would be played by a woman in the re-envisioned series, many fans were up in arms. How could a woman possibly play this character? Not only did Katie Sackhoff prove them wrong, she converted them, and now BOTH Starbucks are iconic. Why? Because they represent two very different tropes. One character, two realizations of it, both iconic.

Honestly, I'm not buyin' these excuses from BioWare. They're a great company with some of the most talented game designers and developers in the business, but these responses are just deflections, and it's really hard to understand why they consider this such an issue.

I don't think they've done that much "research" at all in this specific area, and I'm relatively certain, based on what I do hear representatives saying, that any marketing studies that might actually have been done were hopelessly biased in favor of the result they wanted or expected. I think one real underlying cause is that they're afraid to make the change toward equal presentation of male/female Shepards because of some imagined potential for negative blowback from their core market segment.

...And the "We have to put somebody on the box" argument doesn't fly either. The last time I checked, boxes have two sides.

Modifié par SkaldFish, 11 février 2011 - 12:09 .


#24427
NM7

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Nice interview, f1r3storm.

Can't say I agree with the statement that the face you put on the box is iconic. If the look of the character was set in stone, and was the same for eveyone then yes it would be. But in a game where the player can choose what their character looks like I don't think it really works. What Commander Shepard looks like in my head is completely different to everyone else.

Yes they need a face for marketing purposes, but there's no reason why they couldn't use both male and female Shepard. If they actually informed people that you can determine the characters gender, maybe it wouldn't be so confusing.

Besides I would say this is a more iconic representation of Mass Effect, as it applies to everyone's Shepard and not just the portion of the player base who use the default character.

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Modifié par Akari Tenshi, 11 février 2011 - 01:28 .


#24428
Sable Phoenix

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SkaldFish wrote...

@f1r3storm: Great  interview -- thanks for sharing! One observation...

f1r3storm wrote...

As promised, the parts of my Dragon Age 2 interview regarding female characters.


Eurogamer: BioWares Producer Jesse Houston recently said on Twitter that he thinks male Hawke is just as iconic as Male Shepard from Mass Effect and, although Female Shepard was the fan favorite, marketing prefers to use the male versions. Why is that?


--snip--

The reason it's iconic is that you have to go with one.

--snip--


Only if you don't understand the meaning of "iconic." Or if you are way too much of a fan of the Highlander movies.

>reluctant snip<


Where did you go to school?  I haven't heard (read) someone who can so clearly and concisely dismantle and assess an issue in a long time.

#24429
SkaldFish

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Akari Tenshi wrote...

Nice interview, f1r3storm.

Can't say I agree with the statement that the face you put on the box is iconic. If the look of the character was set in stone, and was the same for eveyone then yes it would be. But in a game where the player can choose what their character looks like I don't think it really works. What Commander Shepard looks like in my head is completely different to everyone else.

Yes they need a face for marketing purposes, but there's no reason why they couldn't use both male and female Shepard. If they actually informed people that you can determine the characters gender, maybe it wouldn't be so confusing.

Besides I would say this is a more iconic representation of Mass Effect, as it applies to everyone's Shepard and not just the portion of the player base who use the default character.

Image IPB


Perfect -- I love that!!! The only thing that's truly iconic is the icon!!!

This plays up the fact that it's all about the marketing approach you decide to take, and not so much about being REQUIRED to display one specific realization of the main character. Excellent point! Rather than meeting the arguments head-on, you reset the terms of the discussion.

(edited for spelling...)

Modifié par SkaldFish, 11 février 2011 - 01:39 .


#24430
Cyansomnia

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@skald

Yes! I completely agree with you. Well said. =-)

@ELE

(About the makeup) No problem! Always glad to be of assistance.

@Akari

I always found the red and white N7 to be the most iconic thing about Mass Effect.  It makes me think of my Shepard, as I'm sure it would make everyone think of their Shepard.  A very good point, indeed.  I also tend to think of images of the Normandy, but that's a ship and not our character.  

^_^

Modifié par Aislinn Trista, 11 février 2011 - 01:44 .


#24431
Dragonsword18

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Maya Shepard :D

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Modifié par Dragonsword18, 11 février 2011 - 01:57 .


#24432
SkaldFish

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Sable Phoenix wrote...

SkaldFish wrote...

@f1r3storm: Great  interview -- thanks for sharing! One observation...

f1r3storm wrote...

As promised, the parts of my Dragon Age 2 interview regarding female characters.


Eurogamer: BioWares Producer Jesse Houston recently said on Twitter that he thinks male Hawke is just as iconic as Male Shepard from Mass Effect and, although Female Shepard was the fan favorite, marketing prefers to use the male versions. Why is that?


--snip--

The reason it's iconic is that you have to go with one.

--snip--


Only if you don't understand the meaning of "iconic." Or if you are way too much of a fan of the Highlander movies.

>reluctant snip<


Where did you go to school?  I haven't heard (read) someone who can so clearly and concisely dismantle and assess an issue in a long time.


Aw, geeeee... (kicks the ground) ...thanks! [blush]

Seriously, much appreciated, but I think I'm in very good company here. The content on this thread is unusually well-written and thoughtful.

Well, to answer your question...

Furman University (undergrad work)
University of Oklahoma & University of Texas (grad work)

Modifié par SkaldFish, 11 février 2011 - 01:50 .


#24433
leggywillow

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SkaldFish wrote...

Furman University (undergrad work)


Ah, the good old Furman University of Christian Knights? ;)

#24434
sagefic

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Sable Phoenix wrote...

*snips*

That was fantastically good as usual, sage.  I find it amazing how closely your headcanon for Kyrie plays out to my headcanon for Jessica.  I too always got a spy vibe from Kelly.  She was just a little too chipper and a little too sincere and a ilttle too accepting.  I don't see her as malicious though, I think she really does care about Shepard and the crew and that she's just as much of a victim and a tool of the Illusive Man as everyone else on the ship.  Just maybe a little more willing to go along with it because she's perhaps incapable of believing that TIM would betray them?  I dunno.  Maybe her psychiatry training really was just that good and she's purposefully making herself a contradiction.  "Don't mind me, I'm inoffensive and harmless!"  That's my take on her anyway.  Jessica has a natural talent for reading people, but Kelly baffles it.


thanks! oh yeah, i agree with your assessment of kelly. i have plans for her in the fic... (hides plans in back pocket for later)

re: da2 interview. nice! thanks for sharing. well, they're going to use dude-avatar when marketing videogames. no big surprise there (She says sarcastically).

at least ladyhawke has had some publicity. i'm actually thinking about buying that game now. :P

and back to femshep - i like all the complexion comparisons. they look good. really, i think only 2 doesn't work as well, and as someone said, it's mostly because only a few skin tones work nicely for it.

Modifié par sagequeen, 11 février 2011 - 02:22 .


#24435
SkaldFish

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leggywillow wrote...

SkaldFish wrote...

Furman University (undergrad work)


Ah, the good old Furman University of Christian Knights? ;)

Yes, we were the Paladins. :huh:

For a long time -- until somebody decided it violated a safety code or something (go figure...) -- every time we scored a touchdown a knight dressed in real armor with a purple cape and a lance would charge down the sideline.

#24436
Guest_rynluna_*

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Thanks for sharing your interview, Firestorm and I am happy that someone out there is questioning the developers about FemShep/FemHawke. BioWare tries so hard to keep the female version a secret so it's nice when someone says, "hey, remember me?" to them. : )

I guess they are getting a little better if they link that article on Jennifer Hale on Facebook. I am looking forward to DA2 with unique animations for my Lady Hawke. Now, if only the ME2 team takes a page from DA2 and gives FemShep back her unique animations!!!

Edit:  Please stay on topic.  Thanks. ;)

Modifié par rynluna, 11 février 2011 - 02:32 .


#24437
sagefic

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Shepard: Wait. My lower eyelid movements are suggestive? Suggestive how? Wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more.
Mordin: Ah. Monty Python. Understand you are teasing, now.

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"Hmmm... What an important-looking artifact. I know exactly what to do with this."

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"Perfect...."

#24438
leggywillow

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I keep waiting for the Prothean relic to go back to its original size.  THAT would be a funny thing to see

Shepard (over the comm): OH MY GOD! HELP ME!
Joker: What is going on up there?
Shepard: ::muffled:: HRMPH RHRMFMHPHPH
Joker: What?
EDI: It seems that the Prothean orb has reverted to its original size.  Shepard is currently pinned to her bed.

#24439
thompsmt

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Nice one, Leggy.



I do think there are plenty of bad jokes to be made in any location. Especially with out of context screens.

#24440
Shadow_Soul

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I have started a fic for Titra and Thane! Last Moments: Prologue

@Leggy
I keep waiting for that to happen too. I mean, will it?

#24441
JamieCOTC

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On the interview.  That sure is a lot of fancy talk for "We made a generic space marine/D&D Character that we think will resonate with our prime male audience."  :?

#24442
Vralenalien

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Interesting and great interview F1r3storm! Thank you for sharing that. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/w00t.png[/smilie][smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie]

Picture of Miriell Shepard...Just because... [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

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leggywillow wrote...
I keep waiting for the Prothean relic to go back to its original size.  THAT would be a funny thing to see

Shepard (over the comm): OH MY GOD! HELP ME!
Joker: What is going on up there?
Shepard: ::muffled:: HRMPH RHRMFMHPHPH
Joker: What?
EDI: It seems that the Prothean orb has reverted to its original size.  Shepard is currently pinned to her bed.

I've been waiting that to happen too. Cerberus science team says that it seems to be dormant and listening Cerberus science teams is always good idea. :D

#24443
ADLegend21

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leggywillow wrote...

I keep waiting for the Prothean relic to go back to its original size.  THAT would be a funny thing to see

Shepard (over the comm): OH MY GOD! HELP ME!
Joker: What is going on up there?
Shepard: ::muffled:: HRMPH RHRMFMHPHPH
Joker: What?
EDI: It seems that the Prothean orb has reverted to its original size.  Shepard is currently pinned to her bed.

bahahahaha.Image IPB

#24444
Fraevar

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ADLegend21 wrote...

leggywillow wrote...

I keep waiting for the Prothean relic to go back to its original size.  THAT would be a funny thing to see

Shepard (over the comm): OH MY GOD! HELP ME!
Joker: What is going on up there?
Shepard: ::muffled:: HRMPH RHRMFMHPHPH
Joker: What?
EDI: It seems that the Prothean orb has reverted to its original size.  Shepard is currently pinned to her bed.

bahahahaha.Image IPB


Joker: Yes! Finally!
EDI: Jeff?
Joker: I've been wanting to do this ever since she mocked my Vrolick's Syndrome two years ago.
EDI: How will a magic marker assist you in saving Shepard?
Joker: Oh you'll see...

#24445
Ophelia Rivets

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Wow Dragonsword, Maya's very pretty, quite mixed race looking. Nice job. :wizard:

And since we're discussing Prothean orbs:

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I never knew before my latest playthrough that these were in ME1 as well! Finally got to use Shiala's trinket. ;)

Modifié par Ophelia Rivets, 11 février 2011 - 09:51 .


#24446
Unkei

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leggywillow wrote...

I keep waiting for the Prothean relic to go back to its original size.  THAT would be a funny thing to see

Shepard (over the comm): OH MY GOD! HELP ME!
Joker: What is going on up there?
Shepard: ::muffled:: HRMPH RHRMFMHPHPH
Joker: What?
EDI: It seems that the Prothean orb has reverted to its original size.  Shepard is currently pinned to her bed.

LOL! Silly Shepard :D Solution is simple: she should touch it again :wizard:
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Modifié par Unkei, 11 février 2011 - 10:12 .


#24447
Jade Elf

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Thanks for posting that, f1r3storm. :)

#24448
Sable Phoenix

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I think I'll transplant this from the Liara Discussion Group, it still fits.

I think this is what makes LoTSB great:

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It's all in the subtext.  They're talking about data and Feron and everything except themselves, yet the pain of two years absence/newly raw rejection bleeds through in the entire conversation.  It all feels so realistic... in a similar situation in real life, people (cough me and my ex cough) studiously avoid anything relating to the shambles of the relationship and discuss... well, life, the universe, and everything else that we don't actually care about.

I'm glad Jessica and Liara were ultimately able to patch it up.  Their rough spot was imposed upon them by external circumstances beyond their control, and because of that it didn't have power to keep them apart, at least not permanently.  Self-imposed rough spots are a lot more tenacious... and laced with a lot more regret.

Modifié par Sable Phoenix, 11 février 2011 - 10:29 .


#24449
Sable Phoenix

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sagequeen wrote...

 

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Kyrie is so frigging gorgeous I can't even.  Favorite Shepard ever.

EV.  AR.

#24450
Unkei

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Sable Phoenix wrote...

I think I'll transplant this from the Liara Discussion Group, it still fits.

I think this is what makes LoTSB great:

<snip awesome pics>

It's all in the subtext.  They're talking about data and Feron and everything except themselves, yet the pain of two years absence/newly raw rejection bleeds through in the entire conversation.  It all feels so realistic... in a similar situation in real life, people (cough me and my ex cough) studiously avoid anything relating to the shambles of the relationship and discuss... well, life, the universe, and everything else that we don't actually care about.

I'm glad Jessica and Liara were ultimately able to patch it up.  Their rough spot was imposed upon them by external circumstances beyond their control, and because of that it didn't have power to keep them apart, at least not permanently.  Self-imposed rough spots are a lot more tenacious... and laced with a lot more regret.

:crying: Perfectly said :wub:

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