301 réponses à ce sujet

[Giggles_Manically]

D. Gaider hasent said the DR is meaningless, he simply said it wont exist if you didnt do it.

[RosaAquafire]

UberDuber wrote...

Im Saying that having the god baby is better and adds more to the story than not having the god baby. The god baby is win win win. Alot of people where expecting the god baby to be in DA2 and if its not ... alot of people are going to be like this ANGRY FACE > then about 10 minutes later there going to be all ( SAD FACE )

I agree with everything you said. I hope there's a way to make the god baby relevant and work with the plot!

But consider:

A) People who had their Warden make the ultimate sacrifice -- literally killed their character who they loved as much as you loved yours -- just so that Morrigan couldn't get ahold of the godbaby ... how is it fair to have that huge choice be meaningless because Morrigan just went and got the baby from somewhere else? A lot of people took this path. Men, women, lots. I didn't, not in my "main" game. But a lot did. Their choice matters, too.

Blaming this on "fangirls" is just UNFAIR, and it's sexist, too. Maybe a lot of female Alistair fans are particularly vocal about wanting their ending to have as much worth as someone else's, but they're not the only ones and plenty of us are on the side of having this plotline end up relevant.

[iTomes]

*stabs this thread with a knife*



goddammit back to the abyss with you you abomination of a thread!

[2papercuts]

iTomes wrote...

*stabs this thread with a knife*

goddammit back to the abyss with you you abomination of a thread!

no iTomes you are the thread

[Andraste_Reborn]

I'd like to see the Old God baby followed up somehow, I just don't want it to turn up in imports from games where the ritual never took place. The Warden in my icon died to kill the Archdemon, and that game was just as valid and meaningful as the one where another Warden of mine made Alistair sleep with Morrigan. Being a fangirl has nothing to do with it.

[In Exile]

Mike2640 wrote...
That's what I was thinking. Flemeth most likely originally wanted the Old-God as her next vessel after she was done with Morrigan herself. Now that Flemeth is dead(ish), Morrigan is free to raise the child her way. Personally, I see Morrigan as a much kinder person than Flemeth, so I find it very unlikely that she'd try the same thing her mother almost pulled on her.

That's what I thought at first, but I'm not so sure. It matters a lot what the process by which Flemeth posses actually does.

As I understand it now, Flemeth basically pushes out or otherwise removes the soul that was in the vessel, and what she wins is the vessel, not the soul. The old god is special because of what the essence of the old god is, not because you have a body that is related by blood to an awesome dude who happens to be a Grey Warden.

So I actually think Flemeth wanted to preserve the old god for its own sake. I think Flemeth is a very tragic figure, to be honest.

[Mike2640]

In Exile wrote...

Mike2640 wrote...
That's what I was thinking. Flemeth most likely originally wanted the Old-God as her next vessel after she was done with Morrigan herself. Now that Flemeth is dead(ish), Morrigan is free to raise the child her way. Personally, I see Morrigan as a much kinder person than Flemeth, so I find it very unlikely that she'd try the same thing her mother almost pulled on her.

That's what I thought at first, but I'm not so sure. It matters a lot what the process by which Flemeth posses actually does.

As I understand it now, Flemeth basically pushes out or otherwise removes the soul that was in the vessel, and what she wins is the vessel, not the soul. The old god is special because of what the essence of the old god is, not because you have a body that is related by blood to an awesome dude who happens to be a Grey Warden.

So I actually think Flemeth wanted to preserve the old god for its own sake. I think Flemeth is a very tragic figure, to be honest.

I'm not really sure I see her as a tragic figure, if what Morrigan tells you regarding Flemeths origin is true. Even if it isn't, it's hard to sympathise with her after all the daughters she's raised, only to  kill and possess them.

[In Exile]

Mike2640 wrote...
I'm not really sure I see her as a tragic figure, if what Morrigan tells you regarding Flemeths origin is true. Even if it isn't, it's hard to sympathise with her after all the daughters she's raised, only to  kill and possess them.

It's arguable whether or not it is exclusively Flemeth that does the killing and posessing. She is a kind of abomination, but as we know from Connor, becoming an abomination does not neccesarily mean what you were as a person is destroyed.

If you take Morrigan at her word, then we do not know how Flemeth became an abomination. From Flemeth, we know how bitter she is about how she was lusted after, and I think only part of that related to the story of Connibar and random bard dude.

[Nerdage]

David Gaider wrote...

RosaAquafire wrote...
tl;dr: dark ritual is a big deal. Will the implications of it never come into the light?

I guess you'll have to wait and see, won't you?

Very Priestly-esque, I like it.
I hope that, if we do see the outcome of the DR, those of us who didn't take the ritual get a nice token "Remember when you didn't perform that ritual? Good times..." moment, I'd like to know where the consequences take effect without actually having to doing it, just out of curiosity.

[SirGladiator]

Im sure there are interesting consequences either way, it was certainly a major decision. Whether to allow Morrigan to capture the soul of a dragon and make it part of her/your own child, that's a pretty big deal. It should definitely play a meaningful part in the future storyline some way or other. Given that you can either do it or not, that would seem to limit its potential somewhat, that's probably why some folks were looking for an alternate way for it to have happened without the player's approval. But its definitely something I'm looking forward to seeing play out, whether or not you do it. I've played through the game all the way once so far, my PC did the ritual with Morrigan, she romanced Leliana though so it would be nice for those of us who went that route if we could see Morrigan, the PC, and Leliana all together raising the child at some point in the future .

[KirbyStyle]

I went through with it. That way neither Alistar or myself could die but also because she was my romance in the game. I figured if this old god demon child thing ever became a problem I would have to take care of it sometime down the line.

[iTomes]

the thread!! its back!! *prepares his knife*

[Sarkus]

Thanks for "clearing things up" David! Now we're even more confused then before. Maybe you can "clear up" the Alistair is Fiona's kid thing next!



Lol.

[Morroian]

David Gaider wrote...

May I put this to rest?

If the player didn't do the Dark Ritual, or didn't get Alistair or Loghain to do it, then it wasn't done. Had Morrigan figured out some way to otherwise do it, then nobody would have died when the Archdemon was slain. If she had some way to go about getting the Archdemon's soul without resorting to the Dark Ritual as she proposed it, then why did she go through all the trouble?

We could undoubtedly come up with some complex Plan B on Morrigan's part whereby she gets the Archdemon's soul but has to do something far more terrible-- but a) that removes the player's agency in the biggest single choice of Origins and would probably be pretty lame.

The end result of the 2 choices, god baby or not, would seem too wildly divergent to be able to be accommodated in future games without some sort of a workaround. Like someone said it actually looks like you're making the choice to do the dark ritual meaningless. Not saying you won't find a way to reconcile the 2 outcomes but I can't see it.

[HighMoon]

UberDuber wrote...

The Fan girls dont want the god baby!
and everybody else does.

So does that mean the godbaby wont be apart of DA2 or any other DA games because it is not a canon? Ahhh this blows its all because the Alistair fangirls. Here I was looking forward to a godbaby destroying things ect.

Not true. I romanced Alistair with my main character and I am definitely a fangirl of Ali, but I still did the DR and if I don't find out what happened to Morrigan's child (and Morrigan herself for that matter - she's one of my favorite characters) then I will be very dissappointed.

Modifié par Golden-Rose, 22 juillet 2010 - 06:31 .

[Dave of Canada]

I'm wondering something myself, I had romanced Morrigan and involved myself with her. She offered the Dark Ritual and said she'd never see me again after, I was saddened but refused the Ritual. She looked at me, called me a fool and left me to die.

As I died in the ending, I wondered what happened to Morrigan..

Epilogue kicks in: She's still pregnant, not with the Archdemon but with my character's regular child.

I'm wondering if this will be mentioned in DA2 if this was what got imported.

[Ahisgewaya]

iTomes wrote...

why wont this thread just finally die???? its like Gaxkang!

How can it die when people like you and I keep posting questions about why it won't die?

Damn, I'm evil.....

[Ahisgewaya]

Malanek999 wrote...

Mike2640 wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

Mike2640 wrote...

I dont see why everyone seems to think that the God-Child would be particularly significant even if they did make that choice. Morrigan said that she simply felt the essence of the Old God was worth preserving. She never implied that she was going to train it to conquor the world or anything that dramatic.
What the game and epilogue seemed to imply is that after the battle Morrigan hid with the child to raise it in secrecy.
I never got the impression that Morrigan was quite as megalomaniacal as people appear to think she was. She wasn't very nice most of the time, but she wasn't evil.

I was under the belief that Flemeth viewed the child as the ultimate vessel for her next body. Morrigan had that view for herself as well, but (IMO) wouldn't be able to go through with it.

That's what I was thinking. Flemeth most likely originally wanted the Old-God as her next vessel after she was done with Morrigan herself. Now that Flemeth is dead(ish), Morrigan is free to raise the child her way. Personally, I see Morrigan as a much kinder person than Flemeth, so I find it very unlikely that she'd try the same thing her mother almost pulled on her.

I think the ish part on the end of dead is key here. I didn't see Morrigan as being free of Flemeth. On the other hand it's quite possible that Flemeth actually liked Morrigan and never intended to steal her body, just skip a generation.

This is why I really hope they add more Flemeth in Dragon Age 2, then at least we can see more about who Morrigan and Flemeth really are (especially if they ARE manipulating everyone like the Alistair fangirls insist).

Modifié par Ahisgewaya, 22 juillet 2010 - 01:25 .

[Ahisgewaya]

RosaAquafire wrote...
Blaming this on "fangirls" is just UNFAIR, and it's sexist, too. Maybe a lot of female Alistair fans are particularly vocal about wanting their ending to have as much worth as someone else's, but they're not the only ones

I don't think anyone is blaming this on girl fans of the series, but as you said, Alistair fans are particularly vocal about this particular issue. Hence all of the Alistair fangirl references. You yourself said this. Are you sexist?

[Guns3]

I did the DR, but afterwords when I already saved I thought, "What if she did this so she could use what she learned from Flemeth and take over the old god baby... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO", but it was too late.

[R.U.N]

Guns3 wrote...

I did the DR, but afterwords when I already saved I thought, "What if she did this so she could use what she learned from Flemeth and take over the old god baby... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO", but it was too late.

Here's another one:
The OGB might lead to another Blight.
So, do you want to reload the game now?

[PriscilaSSR]

I love Morrigan, she grow out to be like a sister to my Wardens (all of them even!). And most of my playtroughs I did the dark ritual and I think the god baby is a great story (for females as well, the angst with Alistair is precious ). Is just that the word "canon" give me chills, because of the fear that if they start making things canon, it won't be my canon (hi Revan, looking at you. Hi Male!Shep for the movie!). The basic is: I hate canon, even if by chance they say MINE version of the game was the "real" one, it's just bad manners to ignore lot of choices. Defeats the purporse of an RPG and all that...

[Rulian]

I just assumed Flementh wanted the Old God's spirit to finish the work of the Tevinters and usurp heaven.  This probably means starting another new religion in DA.

[Ryzaki]

Ahisgewaya wrote...

RosaAquafire wrote...
Blaming this on "fangirls" is just UNFAIR, and it's sexist, too. Maybe a lot of female Alistair fans are particularly vocal about wanting their ending to have as much worth as someone else's, but they're not the only ones

I don't think anyone is blaming this on girl fans of the series, but as you said, Alistair fans are particularly vocal about this particular issue. Hence all of the Alistair fangirl references. You yourself said this. Are you sexist?

I don't consider myself a fangirl to be honest (almost all of the companions annoy the crap out of me. Just this Morrigan gets god baby anyways despite the PC dying for her *not* to get it was irritating me.

[asaiasai]

David Gaider wrote...

May I put this to rest?

If the player didn't do the Dark Ritual, or didn't get Alistair or Loghain to do it, then it wasn't done. Had Morrigan figured out some way to otherwise do it, then nobody would have died when the Archdemon was slain. If she had some way to go about getting the Archdemon's soul without resorting to the Dark Ritual as she proposed it, then why did she go through all the trouble?

We could undoubtedly come up with some complex Plan B on Morrigan's part whereby she gets the Archdemon's soul but has to do something far more terrible-- but a) that removes the player's agency in the biggest single choice of Origins and would probably be pretty lame.

Thank you very much for that information.

Asai