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[Kaiser Shepard]

druplesnubb wrote...

Marzillius wrote...

They don't need any explanation. They can simply say that Morrigan's Ritual is canon and the problem is solved.

Except that that kinda srews with the saves of everyone who didn't do the ritual.

Awakening already did that.

[druplesnubb]

night0205 wrote...

You guys are forgetting something. How can you canonize Awakening if you die? They don't care, if they want to use Morrigan's god baby they will. I actually think that they will. Awakening is canonized. It's official. The Warden did become the Arl of Amaranthine. It did happen. Things aren't as black and white as you see. Bioware will do what they think is best for the story, and yet allowing you to import certain decisions you have made in previous games.

You forget the Orlesian warden.

[Kaiser Shepard]

druplesnubb wrote...

night0205 wrote...

You guys are forgetting something. How can you canonize Awakening if you die? They don't care, if they want to use Morrigan's god baby they will. I actually think that they will. Awakening is canonized. It's official. The Warden did become the Arl of Amaranthine. It did happen. Things aren't as black and white as you see. Bioware will do what they think is best for the story, and yet allowing you to import certain decisions you have made in previous games.

You forget the Orlesian warden.

The Orlesian Warden was there for the two, maybe three newcomers: after all, it was based on a default state of the world.

[Tirigon]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

The Orlesian Warden was there for the two, maybe three newcomers: after all, it was based on a default state of the world.

Still it was the only 1 I have played in Awakenings so far.

[Ryzaki]

distinguetraces wrote...

There are so may ways for this to be explained that it barely even qualifies as a ret-con -- as must have been planned since the beginning.

Neither of my primary characters are doing the DR, but I wouldn't see an appearance by Morrigan's baby in the sequel as necessarily contradicting their stories at all.

You don't find the fact that the Old God's soul was destroyed by the Warden a contradiction? 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 19 juillet 2010 - 08:03 .

[night0205]

Here is the problem. I don't think that every single scenario is going to play out exactly how we expected. Everyone wants what their decisions were to be canon, but all those "canon" things contradict other peoples "canon". Yes, in Awakening it's announced at the end of Origins and through Awakening that you are the Arl of Amaranthine, but maybe you never were and the Orlesian was... My view on Morrigan is that... and I think this is why they started a whole different central character... Morrigan was the main character of Origins. I don't care what you say, she was central, beyond the Warden, and maybe Alistair. But Morrigan is the salvation, she is there from beginning to end, her mother and her are key players, and the ritual is the big twist of the entire story. Oh so Morrigan was with you this entire time to decieve you into creating a godbaby with her... That was the whole point of Origins, that was the plan, to create this being with the spirit of an old god. I see this as, beyond the obvious Darkspawn attack, as the key plot point of Origins. So, in seeing that Morrigan and her mother are key players in Dragon Age 2, I see that the dark ritual will play a part. Do what extent will this part play? I really don't know, but I know that it will play some part in the story.

[AlexXIV]

I keep seeing people talking about the Dark Ritual (DR) being canon. Nobody said that, and there is no reasoning it has to be. Only people who are obsessed with the god-child and want it to play a major role in Dragon Age. Let's say Morrigan gets pregnant eventually, it would still be a quite powerful being. After all Morrigan is Flemeth's daughter, and the father won't be a farmer from next door either. Morrigan is only attracted to strong males as far as I know.

So what would the soul of an old god add to the child? Power? There is more than one way to gain power. The Warden was quite powerful as well at the end of DA:A. And even without looking for ways to increase it, he simply grew with the challenges. Maybe god-childs don't age. But then again, how likely is it that Morrigan's offspring is going to die of old age? More likely it will be a violent death of some sort.

So to sum it up, I don't think the soul of an old god is necessary to continue the story. And that said, it is not necessary that it becomes canon. Also I am not thinking we will see another blight anyway. Because even if there are 2 Archdemons left, who is to say history repeats? The knowledge of darkspawn and Archdemons keeps growing and I wouldn't be surprised if Morrigan (or Grey Wardens) could find an Archdemon even before the darkspawn do, and speed up the circle of blights and bring the whole affair to a quick ending.

After all, don't forget that from the first Blight to the Fifth, the next blight was always defeated faster than the last. And now the last was even defeated before it really began, so the next logical step would be to find the Archdemon and stop the next Blight before the Archdemon even awakes.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 19 juillet 2010 - 10:18 .

[Dick Delaware]

The way I see it, there are only two ways to go with the Morrigan-child plotline. First, is to make it canon - this is the only way to make the story consistent, even if there are people who sacrificed themselves that wouldn't like it. A canon would be the only way to insure a story that makes any modicum of sense. While I'm not a fan of this type of railroading, I really don't see an alternative if this is the type of story that you want to pursue.



The other option is to ditch the Origins storyline and companions completely. Go off in a completely different direction and abandon all of the storylines in Origins.This doesn't have to be all bad, Thedas is a big world and there are interesting possibilities in other places as well.



Really, I don't see any other option you have besides these two. If you try to create a different justification for how Morrigan created the child, presumably by finding another Old God and Warden, it could get very convoluted and preposterous.

[Sappy69]

LOL this has got to be one of the funniest threads I've read in a while. Some of the justifications I've read from people desperate to make the godbaby canon boil down to: "For those who didn't do the DR, we'll just say that Morrigan raped them in their sleep, and then at the final battle, sniped them from far away w/o the player ever knowing about it!" Yes, I'm sure *that* will go over real well with players. And here people were complaining about the perceived lack of choice in DA2...

[Vandicus]

If anyone has played the KoToRs, then they know that canon doesn't give a damn about your decisions. Revan is a light sided male Jedi, regardless of whether a person chose for him to be dark side or female. The DR is the best for plot purposes, and therefore Bioware will use it.

[Svest]

The simple answer, if they choose to make the God-Child canon, is she performed some other magic ritual to make it happen. Maybe the "Dark Ritual" we know about was just one option. Maybe the other ritual required her to sacrifice or do something she did not wish to, but left with no other option she did anyways. Just because the Warden dies without performing the "Dark Ritual" does not necessarily mean the old god's soul absolutely has to be destroyed and gone forever. This is a world filled with magic being written by some fairly creative people. If they want something to happen, they will make it happen. Of course, they could also choose to abandon that story arc too.

[Ceesko]

AlexXIV wrote...

I keep seeing people talking about the Dark Ritual (DR) being canon. Nobody said that, and there is no reasoning it has to be. Only people who are obsessed with the god-child and want it to play a major role in Dragon Age. Let's say Morrigan gets pregnant eventually, it would still be a quite powerful being. After all Morrigan is Flemeth's daughter, and the father won't be a farmer from next door either. Morrigan is only attracted to strong males as far as I know.

So what would the soul of an old god add to the child? Power? There is more than one way to gain power. The Warden was quite powerful as well at the end of DA:A. And even without looking for ways to increase it, he simply grew with the challenges. Maybe god-childs don't age. But then again, how likely is it that Morrigan's offspring is going to die of old age? More likely it will be a violent death of some sort.

So to sum it up, I don't think the soul of an old god is necessary to continue the story. And that said, it is not necessary that it becomes canon. Also I am not thinking we will see another blight anyway. Because even if there are 2 Archdemons left, who is to say history repeats? The knowledge of darkspawn and Archdemons keeps growing and I wouldn't be surprised if Morrigan (or Grey Wardens) could find an Archdemon even before the darkspawn do, and speed up the circle of blights and bring the whole affair to a quick ending.

After all, don't forget that from the first Blight to the Fifth, the next blight was always defeated faster than the last. And now the last was even defeated before it really began, so the next logical step would be to find the Archdemon and stop the next Blight before the Archdemon even awakes.

Dude.. we are talking about an OLD GOD. A human with the soul of an ancient god long thought to be trapped in the bowels of the Earth. The old god of beauty. Talk of he changes he could bring to the world. If thats not a major plotline I don't know what is?!?

[Giggles_Manically]

Oh look another thread that believes Morrigan and the OGB are the only thing that can make a sequel and bring up absurd Lost style theories to fit them in...



Never saw that one before.

[Dick Delaware]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Oh look another thread that believes Morrigan and the OGB are the only thing that can make a sequel and bring up absurd Lost style theories to fit them in...

Never saw that one before.

Wait, what if Morrigan built a time-travel machine and got the baby that way?!?!?!?

Judging from the retarded potential plotlines in this thread, I hope none of you ever write anything in your lives. The only real way to NOT make that whole plotline ridiculous is to enforce a canon. Sucks, but it's much better than the convoluted, idiotic drivel that could be produced otherwise.

Either that or ditch it completely. 

Half-measures are for p*ssies.

[Svest]

Ryzaki wrote...

distinguetraces wrote...

There are so may ways for this to be explained that it barely even qualifies as a ret-con -- as must have been planned since the beginning.

Neither of my primary characters are doing the DR, but I wouldn't see an appearance by Morrigan's baby in the sequel as necessarily contradicting their stories at all.

You don't find the fact that the Old God's soul was destroyed by the Warden a contradiction? 

What evidence is there, aside from the Warden being dead, that the Old God's soul was actually destroyed?  Sure the Archdemon was defeated and didn't come back, so we know something happened with the Old God's soul, but we just assume it was destroyed.  Maybe Morrigan did capture it somehow, until we find out more about her story we have no way of knowing for sure.

[Avaflame]

Meh, anything could happen. I'd rather a canon, myself, even if it contradicts my own playthroughs. As long as Alistair is king, and not with Anora >:|



I mentioned in another thread though that perhaps Morrigan tried the DR with Riordan anyway without the Warden's knowledge and was successful. That way people's choices remains unaffected, only the epilogue does. Hence Awakening could be justified as well. I haven't played a game through to the end choosing against the DR, and if that ends with a huge flashing light, who knows what happened?



But yes, I'd rather just have an established canon.

[UberDuber]

I dont see why people would not do the dark ritual ... You get to sleep with Morrigan and create a wonderful thing called a GOD baby win win win.

[LMNOPMusic]

she screws you while your asleep

[Dick Delaware]

My god people, it was explained the last page. Two souls cannot co-exist in a single body. The taint of the Grey Wardens means that when you slay the Archdemon, instead of its essence hopping onto the nearest darkspawn (who don't have souls) it enters the Grey Warden. Since Wardens, unlike darkspawn, DO have souls, this means that their souls are destroyed and they die. Morrigan's ritual is such that instead of the Grey Warden absorbing the taint, the unborn child would possess the pure soul of an Old God without the taint on account of its Grey Warden father.



So, if they retcon it so that Morrigan slipped roofies inside a drink and slept with the Male PC / Alistair, this still wouldn't work because it would contradict everything else. If Morrigan did the ritual and you were not aware of it, you would still be alive.



There. Nobody is now allowed to make stupid hypothetical plots ever, anymore.

[Sabariel]

Maybe she gets impregnated by an Orlesian Warden then digs up your/Alistair/Loghain's corpse and jumps up and down on your/Alistair/Loghain's chest until the Old God essence floats out of you/Alistair/Loghain because it was hiding all along....

[AlexXIV]

Ceesko wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

I keep seeing people talking about the Dark Ritual (DR) being canon. Nobody said that, and there is no reasoning it has to be. Only people who are obsessed with the god-child and want it to play a major role in Dragon Age. Let's say Morrigan gets pregnant eventually, it would still be a quite powerful being. After all Morrigan is Flemeth's daughter, and the father won't be a farmer from next door either. Morrigan is only attracted to strong males as far as I know.

So what would the soul of an old god add to the child? Power? There is more than one way to gain power. The Warden was quite powerful as well at the end of DA:A. And even without looking for ways to increase it, he simply grew with the challenges. Maybe god-childs don't age. But then again, how likely is it that Morrigan's offspring is going to die of old age? More likely it will be a violent death of some sort.

So to sum it up, I don't think the soul of an old god is necessary to continue the story. And that said, it is not necessary that it becomes canon. Also I am not thinking we will see another blight anyway. Because even if there are 2 Archdemons left, who is to say history repeats? The knowledge of darkspawn and Archdemons keeps growing and I wouldn't be surprised if Morrigan (or Grey Wardens) could find an Archdemon even before the darkspawn do, and speed up the circle of blights and bring the whole affair to a quick ending.

After all, don't forget that from the first Blight to the Fifth, the next blight was always defeated faster than the last. And now the last was even defeated before it really began, so the next logical step would be to find the Archdemon and stop the next Blight before the Archdemon even awakes.

Dude.. we are talking about an OLD GOD. A human with the soul of an ancient god long thought to be trapped in the bowels of the Earth. The old god of beauty. Talk of he changes he could bring to the world. If thats not a major plotline I don't know what is?!?

There are still 2 more Old Gods out there, and you only need 2 for coupling. So even if the Dragon of Beauty is lost, there is plenty of options of a plot.

[Tirigon]

Sabariel wrote...

Maybe she gets impregnated by an Orlesian Warden then digs up your/Alistair/Loghain's corpse and jumps up and down on your/Alistair/Loghain's chest until the Old God essence floats out of you/Alistair/Loghain because it was hiding all along....

She has probably hypnotised you. You slept with her without knowing and your death is just a dream. In reality you´re still alive only you don´t know that.

[Svest]

Dick Delaware wrote...

My god people, it was explained the last page. Two souls cannot co-exist in a single body. The taint of the Grey Wardens means that when you slay the Archdemon, instead of its essence hopping onto the nearest darkspawn (who don't have souls) it enters the Grey Warden. Since Wardens, unlike darkspawn, DO have souls, this means that their souls are destroyed and they die. Morrigan's ritual is such that instead of the Grey Warden absorbing the taint, the unborn child would possess the pure soul of an Old God without the taint on account of its Grey Warden father.

So, if they retcon it so that Morrigan slipped roofies inside a drink and slept with the Male PC / Alistair, this still wouldn't work because it would contradict everything else. If Morrigan did the ritual and you were not aware of it, you would still be alive.

There. Nobody is now allowed to make stupid hypothetical plots ever, anymore.

I love it when people make stupid statements about how things hve to happen in a fictional world with magic.  The whole point of including magic in a story is it makes ANYTHING possible.  The writers could easily create a way where the Warden dies and Morrigan still gets the God-Child if they want.  I suspect it would take them about 5 min to figure something out. 

That said, trying to make up your own hypothetical plot is just as stupid.  If the writers want the God-Child to be a major part of the DA world it will.  If not, it won't.  Any amount of guessing or imagining your own scenario of how it could happen is pointless.  Its not going to change the writers' minds one way or another and its not going to effect the story they write either.

[Ryzaki]

Svest wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

distinguetraces wrote...

There are so may ways for this to be explained that it barely even qualifies as a ret-con -- as must have been planned since the beginning.

Neither of my primary characters are doing the DR, but I wouldn't see an appearance by Morrigan's baby in the sequel as necessarily contradicting their stories at all.

You don't find the fact that the Old God's soul was destroyed by the Warden a contradiction? 

What evidence is there, aside from the Warden being dead, that the Old God's soul was actually destroyed?  Sure the Archdemon was defeated and didn't come back, so we know something happened with the Old God's soul, but we just assume it was destroyed.  Maybe Morrigan did capture it somehow, until we find out more about her story we have no way of knowing for sure.

...Other than the giant explosion and the fact that your warden is six feet under? Riordan tells you the reason you kick the bucket is because you destroy its soul. If its soul isn't destoryed you don't kick the bucket. Its not complicated.

Trying to make all these plotholes so Morrigan gets her way just serves to make her more of a damn Sue than she already is.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 20 juillet 2010 - 08:05 .

[biomag]

druplesnubb wrote...

Marzillius wrote...

They don't need any explanation. They can simply say that Morrigan's Ritual is canon and the problem is solved.

Except that that kinda srews with the saves of everyone who didn't do the ritual.

...like Awakening did? It wouldn't surprise me if you can just carry over surviving Wardens or DA2 simply fakes it.