301 réponses à ce sujet

[wickedwizzard01]

if you slept with Morrigan before the ritual (And i guess you have) then there is your child
i don't expect that she is taking the anti conception pill of something neither did i find a spell to prevent her from becoming pregnant
at least i can't find em LOL:)
i guess no one did think of it that way 
i think it.s that simple i guess:P:P

Modifié par wickedwizzard01, 20 juillet 2010 - 08:28 .

[kingxcailin]

haha i might have to try that

[Behindyounow]

If they wanted the DR to be canon, it should've been the only choice available. As it stands, canonizing it will ****** a lot of people off.

[asaiasai]

I am sorry ...... no i am not. All of the drivel being spewed by Morrigan fans is just plain assinine. I have no problems with YOUR story revolving around some silly convoluted attempt to justify why Morrigan has a god baby just allow me the ability to distance myself from it according the the decisions i made as a warden. I have played the game 19 times and done the DR in only 2 plays, to toss my choices out for the convience and satisfaction of the fanboys/girls by making the DR cannon trivializes the choices the rest of my wardens made, trivializes my game preferences. I will say that i do not want to play your game as i am sure you do not want to play mine. The only way to satisfy these demands is to make it so that the individual wardens choices are cannonized. Is this more difficult sure, but i do not care how difficult it is to make this so this way everyone gets what they want .

You can claim all you want that Morrigan is an integral part of the story but the truth remains solidily against that in that Morrigan is as relevant to the game as the player chooses her to be. I dump Morrigan at Lotharin everytime and the game still continues just fine actually i find it to be a more enjoyable experience when the swamp witch has been booted from the party early. The only cannon character in the game is Allistair and even then the player gets to decide his fate, which for the most part in my games IS NOT A HAPPY ENDING for him.

You can dream, plead cajole, with the developers for your desired continuation of the irrelevant Morrigan story, just as i will always be around to offer a counter point to the fan love with some anti fan rhetoric. It is my self appointed mission to relegate Morrigan to obscurity. I do not mind if your game has Morrigan to the hilt, just so long as in my game i can bury my blade to the hilt in Morrigan's abdomen relegating her to as much obscurity as you can to preeminence, all will be right as rain.

Asai

[Arttis]

No one would die if she did the ritual remember...

[wikkedjoker]

Lets be honest with our selves, and think about this logically. What do you think the main
reason we are playing as Hawke and not our Warden is?

9/10
because the writing team wrote themselves into a brilliant, but confining corner...

Look at Awakening, if you Import your Dead Warden, which you can do, well I think that sorta says, what the real ending was.

There is alternate continuity, which we are allowed to explore in DA and than there is canon. When you write for multiple continuity's it than becomes hard to write for a sequel.

Look at ME2 REALLY how many choices form ME1 were big and in your face? There was Easter Egg type things like Rex, and Conrad. BUT the majority of it was,

Did you let the Council live? Yes or No
Who did you let die?
Who did you recommend?

All the choices you made in ME1 didn't seem to hold as much weight in ME2.

What I'm getting at is there are going to be some choices that were made by you and they will be represented in the world. However there will be choices that are made FOR you, for the sake of continuity, and you will just have to live with that, a bummer, but it makes since.

The god child is continuity, its pretty obvious if you look at the end of Dragon Age, even at Dragon Age as a whole.

Her being sent with you.
The fact that even if you kick her out of your party, She will be there for the ritual option.
The fact that there are 3 people who can do it, and if you're a female there is still the option.

Its the ending that was meant to be.

And even if you didn't pick it, its being picked for you. 

Annoying, BUT I can understand why they did it that way.

[wikkedjoker]

asaiasai wrote...

I am sorry ...... no i am not. All of the drivel being spewed by Morrigan fans is just plain assinine. I have no problems with YOUR story revolving around some silly convoluted attempt to justify why Morrigan has a god baby just allow me the ability to distance myself from it according the the decisions i made as a warden. I have played the game 19 times and done the DR in only 2 plays, to toss my choices out for the convience and satisfaction of the fanboys/girls by making the DR cannon trivializes the choices the rest of my wardens made, trivializes my game preferences. I will say that i do not want to play your game as i am sure you do not want to play mine. The only way to satisfy these demands is to make it so that the individual wardens choices are cannonized. Is this more difficult sure, but i do not care how difficult it is to make this so this way everyone gets what they want .

You can claim all you want that Morrigan is an integral part of the story but the truth remains solidily against that in that Morrigan is as relevant to the game as the player chooses her to be. I dump Morrigan at Lotharin everytime and the game still continues just fine actually i find it to be a more enjoyable experience when the swamp witch has been booted from the party early. The only cannon character in the game is Allistair and even then the player gets to decide his fate, which for the most part in my games IS NOT A HAPPY ENDING for him.

You can dream, plead cajole, with the developers for your desired continuation of the irrelevant Morrigan story, just as i will always be around to offer a counter point to the fan love with some anti fan rhetoric. It is my self appointed mission to relegate Morrigan to obscurity. I do not mind if your game has Morrigan to the hilt, just so long as in my game i can bury my blade to the hilt in Morrigan's abdomen relegating her to as much obscurity as you can to preeminence, all will be right as rain.

Asai

Not to sound rude, but your game is trivialized. There is canon which is the base story. Then there is alternate continuity, which is what we create when we make a choice outside the canon of the game.

Sort of like Darkspawn chronicles, its alternate continuity, one in which our Warden didn't survive the joining, however in this continuity Morrigan is still at the final battle. Showing that again the DR was chosen

And than you look at Dragon Age as a whole, and look at all the events, like it or not Morrigan IS the main character in the story, not the Warden not Hawke, the world that dragon age is in revolves around her almost

Want proof?
 
Look at the facts

*The Battle at Ostagar is botched,
and Flemeth saves you.
*Femith than tells you to take Morrigan with
you, as the price for her saving your life.  
*Over all Morrigan has a
great deal more character development. Going form scared child in a
woman’s body, mentally. To coming into her own, and learning to trust
the rag tag band of heroes assembled.
Even to the point of falling
in love with the Warden.
And if you remember what her mother teaching
of what love is, than you know that was a big step for her to pull away
form that, and open up to the warden and fall into a fulfilling love.

But
than she does fall in love with the Warden, she had only originally
been sent there to have his child, and have that child be the host for
the Old Gods soul.

Her and the Warden  conceive a child, and she
does her job thinking she is saving the man she loves life. But really
she’s just a pawn for Flemeth.

However it seems that Morrigan,
knows more about the “God Child” than she lets on. Probably based off
something Flemeth told her, something along the lines that it’s
dangerous, or could be. So for the safety of the people she cares about
she leaves Ferelden.

But this is probably what Flemeth wants.

Do
you honestly believe that someone as old and wise and as powerful as
Flemeth would be killed as easy as she was? Think about what it took to
kill the Archdemon, I would imagine it wouldn‘t be that hard, but not as
easy as it was.

Anyways  this is when we get to DA2.

The
start Dragon Age 2 takes place, just before the final battle, so in the
first year of DA2 we know our Warden is in  Denerim and Amaranthine

However
Hawke was making his was to Kurkwall, or more likely the Free Marches.
On his way there its likely that Flemeth, not the old hag we know, but
the young beautiful woman we have seen in the concept art, saves his
life form Hurlocks. The two team up, after all Hawke also has a Mage
sister he needs to protect. My guess is they want to go as far North as
they can, to someplace controlled by the Tevinter Imperium. Flemeth of
course is not in anyway a good person, and is plotting. Her plot all
along was to eventually create a “God Child”. to what end we don’t know.
but I can guess.

On a side note it would be interesting to see
just how far this plot goes.  We know that three is something off with
the Architect for some unknown reason he was born different. We also
know that he was able to find Urthemiel, faster than what he should
have. I wonder just how much influence Flemeth had in this? Maybe she
created the Arhitect and, sent him on his way to find the Old God
faster, to start the Blight in the life time of Morrigan, so Morrigan
could conceive the “God Child.”

So in DA2 Morrigan is on the
run, and has probably already had the “God Child.” Well what better way
to find someone than to have entire nations looking for her, and if they
believe this child could start the next Blight or something like that,
because it has the soul of an Old God, and there is reason enough to
believe that it would be powerful.

However there is no reason to
believe that Morrigan is utterly stupid, and it wouldn’t be unrealistic
to believe that she has ether been given power by the Old God to
protect its undeveloped child body, or that the child her self is in
full control of her God power, enough power to fake the return of 
Andraste, and raise a cult like army.  One that would take the resources
of 10 years to find and combat.

I don’t think that this is
Hawke’s story. I think we will see the story of a man being used by
Flemeth to achieve her ultimate goal, a goal that if I had to guess
would be the power of the God child, ether though its body or
Morrigan/Morrigan’s body.

I think we will see a sneaky villain
in the guise of our “friend” Flemeth. As she manipulates us in to
creating a new world, maybe by using our sister who is a mage as bate so
to say. Or manipulating us through romance so that we would do what
ever  it takes to create a world in which out mage sister and lover
could be safe. Ultimately however it’s only a ploy to use us to find and
get Morrigan     

[wikkedjoker]

Double post

Modifié par wikkedjoker, 20 juillet 2010 - 10:01 .

[asaiasai]

wikkedjoker wrote...

Lets be honest with our selves, and think about this logically. What do you think the main
reason we are playing as Hawke and not our Warden is?

9/10
because the writing team wrote themselves into a brilliant, but confining corner...

Look at Awakening, if you Import your Dead Warden, which you can do, well I think that sorta says, what the real ending was.

There is alternate continuity, which we are allowed to explore in DA and than there is canon. When you write for multiple continuity's it than becomes hard to write for a sequel.

Look at ME2 REALLY how many choices form ME1 were big and in your face? There was Easter Egg type things like Rex, and Conrad. BUT the majority of it was,

Did you let the Council live? Yes or No
Who did you let die?
Who did you recommend?

All the choices you made in ME1 didn't seem to hold as much weight in ME2.

What I'm getting at is there are going to be some choices that were made by you and they will be represented in the world. However there will be choices that are made FOR you, for the sake of continuity, and you will just have to live with that, a bummer, but it makes since.

The god child is continuity, its pretty obvious if you look at the end of Dragon Age, even at Dragon Age as a whole.

Her being sent with you.
The fact that even if you kick her out of your party, She will be there for the ritual option.
The fact that there are 3 people who can do it, and if you're a female there is still the option.

Its the ending that was meant to be.

And even if you didn't pick it, its being picked for you. 

Annoying, BUT I can understand why they did it that way.

While i may agree with you 100% in spirit i still think it is necessary to offer some counter point as determined as i can, if for no other reason than to make the developers are aware that this "cannonization" of a minor plot point concerning a disposable minor character is not desired by the whole community. I would have less concern if they cannonized Allistair as king because Allistair and the Warden are the ONLY 2 characters in the game that the game requires for completion. People do not like Wynne, Sten, Leliana, who are just as disposable as Morrigan is regardless of what you may believe, and imho alot more interesting than Morrigan who's only claim to fame is "i got knocked up by a powerful man". If that is not rule number 1 for escaping the trailer park i do not know is.

Asai

Modifié par asaiasai, 20 juillet 2010 - 10:07 .

[Foune]

Plot holes, plot holes everywhere.

[Sappy69]

If the Bioware writers wanted to make the DR canon, they would've just made it mandatory. Why give the players a choice if they're not even going to respect it anyway? I understand computer RPG's are about the *illusion* of choice, but even here it's clear not all roads lead to the DR. Heck, what many consider the "ideal" ending doesn't even involve the DR (make Alistair king, recruit Loghain, have Loghain redeem himself by slaying archdemon).



It's clear the writers already knew how they were going to proceed with each major plotline years ago...this isn't something they're making up along the way. I respect them enough to understand that they're not dumb enough to "write themselves into a corner" and be forced to do anything, especially something that'll ****** off a *lot* of players. Look at the major choices from ME1...these were all carried over successfully into your imported ME2 save. Though to be fair, a lot of what seemed important (save the council or not, who's councilor, etc.) became trivialized in ME2 in that they really didn't matter.

[UberDuber]

I am like 99% sure Flemeth wont be a party member I mean come on .... its Flemeth right?

[wikkedjoker]

asaiasai wrote...

wikkedjoker wrote...

Lets be honest with our selves, and think about this logically. What do you think the main
reason we are playing as Hawke and not our Warden is?

9/10
because the writing team wrote themselves into a brilliant, but confining corner...

Look at Awakening, if you Import your Dead Warden, which you can do, well I think that sorta says, what the real ending was.

There is alternate continuity, which we are allowed to explore in DA and than there is canon. When you write for multiple continuity's it than becomes hard to write for a sequel.

Look at ME2 REALLY how many choices form ME1 were big and in your face? There was Easter Egg type things like Rex, and Conrad. BUT the majority of it was,

Did you let the Council live? Yes or No
Who did you let die?
Who did you recommend?

All the choices you made in ME1 didn't seem to hold as much weight in ME2.

What I'm getting at is there are going to be some choices that were made by you and they will be represented in the world. However there will be choices that are made FOR you, for the sake of continuity, and you will just have to live with that, a bummer, but it makes since.

The god child is continuity, its pretty obvious if you look at the end of Dragon Age, even at Dragon Age as a whole.

Her being sent with you.
The fact that even if you kick her out of your party, She will be there for the ritual option.
The fact that there are 3 people who can do it, and if you're a female there is still the option.

Its the ending that was meant to be.

And even if you didn't pick it, its being picked for you. 

Annoying, BUT I can understand why they did it that way.

While i may agree with you 100% in spirit i still think it is necessary to offer some counter point as determined as i can, if for no other reason than to make the developers are aware that this "cannonization" of a minor plot point concerning a disposable minor character is not desired by the whole community. I would have less concern if they cannonized Allistair as king because Allistair and the Warden are the ONLY 2 characters in the game that the game requires for completion. People do not like Wynne, Sten, Leliana, who are just as disposable as Morrigan is regardless of what you may believe, and imho alot more interesting than Morrigan who's only claim to fame is "i got knocked up by a powerful man". If that is not rule number 1 for escaping the trailer park i do not know is.

Asai

I will agree with you its annoying, and right now, I'm sure your feverishly destroying my other post, as I reply to this one.

But I want you to know I hate this too, I was more of a Leliana fan, even more so after seeing how bad ass she was in the CG trailer.

I really think as a player our choices SHOULD have more impact in the DAU, but you give room for so many choices and you will have people go: "This is the choice 'I' made, I didn't make THAT one in fact I did everything I could to NOT make that one honor it, BLAM it!"

And if the choice was so prevalent in continuity one make the character more likable, and dont drop subtle hints. Make a point of the fact she or he is a main character.

I don't care that she was the face of the game, I don't care that all this important stuff surrounds her, if its not forced, than I can go against it and I will, and DA2 better honor that, because it wasn't important enough to be forced.

I don't know.

I like the God Child angle it sounds like it would make a good story. BUT they should have thought about that MORE when making Dragon Age.       
  

Modifié par wikkedjoker, 20 juillet 2010 - 10:34 .

[Quinnzel]

asaiasai wrote...

While i may agree with you 100% in spirit i still think it is necessary to offer some counter point as determined as i can, if for no other reason than to make the developers are aware that this "cannonization" of a minor plot point concerning a disposable minor character is not desired by the whole community. I would have less concern if they cannonized Allistair as king because Allistair and the Warden are the ONLY 2 characters in the game that the game requires for completion. People do not like Wynne, Sten, Leliana, who are just as disposable as Morrigan is regardless of what you may believe, and imho alot more interesting than Morrigan who's only claim to fame is "i got knocked up by a powerful man". If that is not rule number 1 for escaping the trailer park i do not know is.

Asai

This, as I've pointed out in a previous thread, is the problem. You're arguing that the DR souldnt be canonised, whilst Im a Morrigan fan, thats fine. I can equally turn around and argue that Alistair as King should not be canon because at the end, you dont actually need him, you can spit back in his face and recruit Lohgain (which would make far more sense as without being hardened Alistair is a poor excuse for a King and Anora is much better suited as shes already done it!)

Recruiting Lohgain makes more sense because a Grey Warden does what is needed to be done to end a blight and would not likely turn down a chnace to recruit another in their ranks. Even if the DR doesnt happen you can then have Lohgain sacrifice himself to kill the Archdemon leaving all the main charecters alive, the enemy dead and a Villain turned Hero. A Redemption=Death trope if you wiill.

But this is all beside the point as by canonising ANYTHING they're going to upset people. They know this (lookat Reven) so whilst theres likely to be a 'base' story with some decisions made for those not importing any decisions, it'll hardly be canon. Hell the only story and decsiions that should matter to us is the one that we made for our self right?

Modifié par Quinnzel, 20 juillet 2010 - 10:22 .

[wikkedjoker]

UberDuber wrote...

I am like 99% sure Flemeth wont be a party member I mean come on .... its Flemeth right?

Yeah the old crazy bat who should be dead. . . .



Oh never mind.

[UberDuber]

I mean the dark ritual was screaming DA2 when I first completed Origins I dont see how they wont use it.

[wikkedjoker]

Quinnzel wrote...

asaiasai wrote...

While i may agree with you 100% in spirit i still think it is necessary to offer some counter point as determined as i can, if for no other reason than to make the developers are aware that this "cannonization" of a minor plot point concerning a disposable minor character is not desired by the whole community. I would have less concern if they cannonized Allistair as king because Allistair and the Warden are the ONLY 2 characters in the game that the game requires for completion. People do not like Wynne, Sten, Leliana, who are just as disposable as Morrigan is regardless of what you may believe, and imho alot more interesting than Morrigan who's only claim to fame is "i got knocked up by a powerful man". If that is not rule number 1 for escaping the trailer park i do not know is.

Asai

This, as I've pointed out in a previous thread, is the problem. You're arguing that the DR souldnt be canonised, whilst Im a Morrigan fan, thats fine. I can equally turn around and argue that Alistair as King should not be canon because at the end, you dont actually need him, you can spit back in his face and recruit Lohgain (which would make far more sense as without being hardened Alistair is a poor excuse for a King and Anora is much better suited as shes already done it!)

Recruiting Lohgain makes more sense because a Grey Warden does what is needed to be done to end a blight and would not likely turn down a chnace to recruit another in their ranks. Even if the DR doesnt happen you can then have Lohgain sacrifice himself to kill the Archdemon leaving all the main charecters alive, the enemy dead and a Villain turned Hero. A Redemption=Death trope if you wiill.

But this is all beside the point as by canonising ANYTHING they're going to upset people. They know this (lookat Reven) so whilst theres likely to be a 'base' story with some decisions made for those not importing any decisions, it'll hardly be canon. Hell the only story and decsiions that should matter to us is the one that we made for our self right?

And when you think about it look at what they HAVE put into canon.;

Gray Warden= Human Noble, Male, Warrior, Shield and Sword.

This is canon.

Why because Bioware used this character for there marketing, and when you say a character exist like that, you've made him canon.

Like it or not.    

Modifié par wikkedjoker, 20 juillet 2010 - 10:29 .

[UberDuber]

wikkedjoker wrote...

UberDuber wrote...

I am like 99% sure Flemeth wont be a party member I mean come on .... its Flemeth right?

Yeah the old crazy bat who should be dead. . . .



Oh never mind.

Ahh im going to kill her again anyway  and if she is in DA3 im going to kill her again.

[Jestina]

It was optional and gave them a good excuse to toss another goofy romance scene into the game.

[wikkedjoker]

UberDuber wrote...

wikkedjoker wrote...

UberDuber wrote...

I am like 99% sure Flemeth wont be a party member I mean come on .... its Flemeth right?

Yeah the old crazy bat who should be dead. . . .



Oh never mind.

Ahh im going to kill her again anyway  and if she is in DA3 im going to kill her again.

You too?

I mean, REALLY Bioweare telling us this is Flemeth right out of the
gate??? That could have been a KICK ass plot
twist, I feel a little let down because now I'll just be waiting for the
knife in the back.

[Tirigon]

wikkedjoker wrote...

UberDuber wrote...

wikkedjoker wrote...

UberDuber wrote...

I am like 99% sure Flemeth wont be a party member I mean come on .... its Flemeth right?

Yeah the old crazy bat who should be dead. . . .



Oh never mind.

Ahh im going to kill her again anyway  and if she is in DA3 im going to kill her again.

You too?

I mean, REALLY Bioweare telling us this is Flemeth right out of the
gate??? That could have been a KICK ass plot
twist, I feel a little let down because now I'll just be waiting for the
knife in the back.

In my game, Flemeh should be waiting for a knife in the back.

And she´ll get it asap.

[asaiasai]

wikkedjoker wrote...

asaiasai wrote...

I am sorry ...... no i am not. All of the drivel being spewed by Morrigan fans is just plain assinine. I have no problems with YOUR story revolving around some silly convoluted attempt to justify why Morrigan has a god baby just allow me the ability to distance myself from it according the the decisions i made as a warden. I have played the game 19 times and done the DR in only 2 plays, to toss my choices out for the convience and satisfaction of the fanboys/girls by making the DR cannon trivializes the choices the rest of my wardens made, trivializes my game preferences. I will say that i do not want to play your game as i am sure you do not want to play mine. The only way to satisfy these demands is to make it so that the individual wardens choices are cannonized. Is this more difficult sure, but i do not care how difficult it is to make this so this way everyone gets what they want .

You can claim all you want that Morrigan is an integral part of the story but the truth remains solidily against that in that Morrigan is as relevant to the game as the player chooses her to be. I dump Morrigan at Lotharin everytime and the game still continues just fine actually i find it to be a more enjoyable experience when the swamp witch has been booted from the party early. The only cannon character in the game is Allistair and even then the player gets to decide his fate, which for the most part in my games IS NOT A HAPPY ENDING for him.

You can dream, plead cajole, with the developers for your desired continuation of the irrelevant Morrigan story, just as i will always be around to offer a counter point to the fan love with some anti fan rhetoric. It is my self appointed mission to relegate Morrigan to obscurity. I do not mind if your game has Morrigan to the hilt, just so long as in my game i can bury my blade to the hilt in Morrigan's abdomen relegating her to as much obscurity as you can to preeminence, all will be right as rain.

Asai

Not to sound rude, but your game is trivialized. There is canon which is the base story. Then there is alternate continuity, which is what we create when we make a choice outside the canon of the game.

Sort of like Darkspawn chronicles, its alternate continuity, one in which our Warden didn't survive the joining, however in this continuity Morrigan is still at the final battle. Showing that again the DR was chosen

And than you look at Dragon Age as a whole, and look at all the events, like it or not Morrigan IS the main character in the story, not the Warden not Hawke, the world that dragon age is in revolves around her almost

Want proof?
 
Look at the facts

*The Battle at Ostagar is botched,
and Flemeth saves you.
*Femith than tells you to take Morrigan with
you, as the price for her saving your life.  
*Over all Morrigan has a
great deal more character development. Going form scared child in a
woman’s body, mentally. To coming into her own, and learning to trust
the rag tag band of heroes assembled.
Even to the point of falling
in love with the Warden.
And if you remember what her mother teaching
of what love is, than you know that was a big step for her to pull away
form that, and open up to the warden and fall into a fulfilling love.

But
than she does fall in love with the Warden, she had only originally
been sent there to have his child, and have that child be the host for
the Old Gods soul.

Her and the Warden  conceive a child, and she
does her job thinking she is saving the man she loves life. But really
she’s just a pawn for Flemeth.

However it seems that Morrigan,
knows more about the “God Child” than she lets on. Probably based off
something Flemeth told her, something along the lines that it’s
dangerous, or could be. So for the safety of the people she cares about
she leaves Ferelden.

But this is probably what Flemeth wants.

Do
you honestly believe that someone as old and wise and as powerful as
Flemeth would be killed as easy as she was? Think about what it took to
kill the Archdemon, I would imagine it wouldn‘t be that hard, but not as
easy as it was.

Anyways  this is when we get to DA2.

The
start Dragon Age 2 takes place, just before the final battle, so in the
first year of DA2 we know our Warden is in  Denerim and Amaranthine

However
Hawke was making his was to Kurkwall, or more likely the Free Marches.
On his way there its likely that Flemeth, not the old hag we know, but
the young beautiful woman we have seen in the concept art, saves his
life form Hurlocks. The two team up, after all Hawke also has a Mage
sister he needs to protect. My guess is they want to go as far North as
they can, to someplace controlled by the Tevinter Imperium. Flemeth of
course is not in anyway a good person, and is plotting. Her plot all
along was to eventually create a “God Child”. to what end we don’t know.
but I can guess.

On a side note it would be interesting to see
just how far this plot goes.  We know that three is something off with
the Architect for some unknown reason he was born different. We also
know that he was able to find Urthemiel, faster than what he should
have. I wonder just how much influence Flemeth had in this? Maybe she
created the Arhitect and, sent him on his way to find the Old God
faster, to start the Blight in the life time of Morrigan, so Morrigan
could conceive the “God Child.”

So in DA2 Morrigan is on the
run, and has probably already had the “God Child.” Well what better way
to find someone than to have entire nations looking for her, and if they
believe this child could start the next Blight or something like that,
because it has the soul of an Old God, and there is reason enough to
believe that it would be powerful.

However there is no reason to
believe that Morrigan is utterly stupid, and it wouldn’t be unrealistic
to believe that she has ether been given power by the Old God to
protect its undeveloped child body, or that the child her self is in
full control of her God power, enough power to fake the return of 
Andraste, and raise a cult like army.  One that would take the resources
of 10 years to find and combat.

I don’t think that this is
Hawke’s story. I think we will see the story of a man being used by
Flemeth to achieve her ultimate goal, a goal that if I had to guess
would be the power of the God child, ether though its body or
Morrigan/Morrigan’s body.

I think we will see a sneaky villain
in the guise of our “friend” Flemeth. As she manipulates us in to
creating a new world, maybe by using our sister who is a mage as bate so
to say. Or manipulating us through romance so that we would do what
ever  it takes to create a world in which out mage sister and lover
could be safe. Ultimately however it’s only a ploy to use us to find and
get Morrigan     

Not ferevishly

First off let me start by saying that you start out in some basis of factual opinion but you clearly loose the thought later in your post by delving into a fanciful world that i truly hope the developers at Bioware deign as your reward for your stalwart defense of Morrigan. I am not saying that you should not have you fantasy, provided of course i can have mine which involves Morrigan alive and aware turning slowly on a spit while i dance a jig to festive music. You claim that my world with out Morrigan is trivialized which is just your opinion which i as i will conceed booting Morrigan from the party at Lotharin is the only way to play the game is clearly mine. I will also conceed that my opinion is in the minority but no more or less valid than yours. Just an uncomfortable difference of opinion concerning a trivial character and the minor or major role the player has the choice to award to this character.  

To say that the world of Dragon Age revolves around Morrigan is, not to be offensive, delusional because if the warden dies NO DR was performed. To make this part cannon is to trivialize everything the wardens stand for. To trivialize the lore surounding the wardens is to trivialize that very cannon that has already been established by the writing. The game in great detail lays out what that warden cannon is to the point that Duncan executes a fine soldier in Ser Jory for not completing the joining. If Morrigan is as important a character to the world of DAO as you claim she is, she will not be in the role you give her as hero, Morrigan is clearly the villan in this tale and all one needs to do is look, listen, and observe to arrive at this conclusion. "But the ring it is so sweet" goes the whine it is a tracker so that Morrigan can stay ahead of the warden who like a lost puppy is seeking some approval.
 
Looking at your facts the battle of Ostagar is botched requiring Flemeth to save you, it is very important that you see that it is Flemeth not Morrigan who saves you. Why does Flemeth save you? I think it is because Flemeth needs young and inexperienced wardens with which she and Morrigan have a better chance into manipulating into doing what they want. If you notice i said "they", as Morrigan is not that smart. You give Morrigan way to much credit as a master manipulator, she is a unranked amateur when it comes to manipulation compaired to Flemeth who has had centuries to perfect her art. Flemeth is also manupulating Morrigan as well but this does not absolve Morrigan from any complicity in Flemeth's plan just because it is Flemeth's plan.

The cruxt of my dislike for Morrigan is based partly on your battle of Ostagar point. Morrigan tells the player after Ostagar that she had no part in your rescue or patching up. The most important question one needs to consider is, if saving the wardens was just left up to Morrigan would she risk life or limb to save the wardens? Every indication from beginning to end of the game is that Morrigan would not, everytime the choice is put before the warden as to help the innocent or walk away Morrigan would walk away everytime. That is part of the running joke "Morrigan disapproves" which in my opinion means that Morrigan is entitled to nothing more than the contempt she shows for others. 

****Over all Morrigan has a
great deal more character development. Going form scared child in a
woman’s body, mentally. To coming into her own, and learning to trust
the rag tag band of heroes assembled.
Even to the point of falling
in love with the Warden.
And if you remember what her mother teaching
of what love is, than you know that was a big step for her to pull away
form that, and open up to the warden and fall into a fulfilling love.
But
than she does fall in love with the Warden, she had only originally
been sent there to have his child, and have that child be the host for
the Old Gods soul.
****
It is is to statements like these that i shake my head in resignation, Morrigan is incapiable of love, any kind of love except self love and that many players are willing led into the belief that they have reached Morrigan is the kind of confidence only displayed by willing victims in the presence of a serial killer. Lulling thier intended victim or mark as the case is, into the belief that they have power or control over the circumstances is the sign of a manipulator in practice of thier art. Morrigan loves the warden because the warden has something to offer and so long as the warden has the power she seeks she will do what she feels is necessary to secure that power. IF it requires feigning interest, love or sex she will do it regardless of what is required if it furthers her goal all that matters is the prize.

For your other point
***Do
you honestly believe that someone as old and wise and as powerful as
Flemeth would be killed as easy as she was? Think about what it took to
kill the Archdemon, I would imagine it wouldn‘t be that hard, but not as
easy as it was.***

First off that battle is necessary if you are taken in by Morrigan's poor attempts at manipulation. I never kill Flemeth as i do not buy either of thier bull****. I would be willing to deliver Morrigan trussed and gagged to Flemeth unceremoniously dropped at her feet even if i had to carry her over my shoulder from one end of Feraldin to the other. Delivered with implicent instructions to do with IT what you will, just get IT out of my sight, the debt has been paid in full (Mine and Allistair's lives).

As for DA2 i really hope that they allow the importing of DAO characters and each warden's decisions are made cannon. I feel this is the best solution as everyone gets what they want, i do realize this is more difficult from a development standpoint, but i really do not care. I have actually only two plays that are DR the rest pretty much are based around my opinion that i have bigger fish to fry that become involved in what is clearly a mother daughter spat if not out right ignoring her. But if they force the DR cannon down my throat i sincerely hope that i am given the choice between Morrigan and Flemeth considering that i feel as i do for Morrigan the decision has already been made. Flemeth while manupulative is more trust worthy of a character, by saving the wardens and by proxy alot of people in Thedas she has clearly shown that she fully understands the power she wields and it's ability to impact others. She has chosen her side even if that choice is not as alturistic as it appears, Flemeth is a much more benevolent figure than the Morrigan we currently know. If given the choice Morrigan will lose again as she looses every time she sends me after Flemeth.   

I am rooting for Flemeth with every fiber of my being.

Asai
 

Modifié par asaiasai, 20 juillet 2010 - 01:01 .

[The Hardest Thing In The World]

I'm just glad they didn't do a Morrigan's baby story in this sequel(although initially after Origins I wanted to see it). I didn't continue with my "dead Warden" with Awakening as I want some sort of continuity.

[asaiasai]

Quinnzel wrote...

asaiasai wrote...

While i may agree with you 100% in spirit i still think it is necessary to offer some counter point as determined as i can, if for no other reason than to make the developers are aware that this "cannonization" of a minor plot point concerning a disposable minor character is not desired by the whole community. I would have less concern if they cannonized Allistair as king because Allistair and the Warden are the ONLY 2 characters in the game that the game requires for completion. People do not like Wynne, Sten, Leliana, who are just as disposable as Morrigan is regardless of what you may believe, and imho alot more interesting than Morrigan who's only claim to fame is "i got knocked up by a powerful man". If that is not rule number 1 for escaping the trailer park i do not know is.

Asai

This, as I've pointed out in a previous thread, is the problem. You're arguing that the DR souldnt be canonised, whilst Im a Morrigan fan, thats fine. I can equally turn around and argue that Alistair as King should not be canon because at the end, you dont actually need him, you can spit back in his face and recruit Lohgain (which would make far more sense as without being hardened Alistair is a poor excuse for a King and Anora is much better suited as shes already done it!)

Recruiting Lohgain makes more sense because a Grey Warden does what is needed to be done to end a blight and would not likely turn down a chnace to recruit another in their ranks. Even if the DR doesnt happen you can then have Lohgain sacrifice himself to kill the Archdemon leaving all the main charecters alive, the enemy dead and a Villain turned Hero. A Redemption=Death trope if you wiill.

But this is all beside the point as by canonising ANYTHING they're going to upset people. They know this (lookat Reven) so whilst theres likely to be a 'base' story with some decisions made for those not importing any decisions, it'll hardly be canon. Hell the only story and decsiions that should matter to us is the one that we made for our self right?

The reason i chose to use Allistair as an example is not to be considered a hypocrit as i usually have quite a bit of fun with deciding which dragon i shall feed Allistair to, Anora or the Archdemon.  It does raise a point that i am making though, the abrupt cannonization of certain story elements in the attempt by the developers to let themselves off the hook regarding the previous warden and thier decisions. I think we should stop arguing why one story line should be cannonized and take the developers to task to base the world of DA2 on the decisions of the warden that is imported. This way everybody gets what makes them happy, this also creates, depending on how many different wardens you have (19 and counting for me) a serious amout or replay value.

Asai

[Danjaru]

Not possible, cause if that happened then the one striking the archdemon down would not die.