159 réponses à ce sujet

[JocktheMotie]

Yeah, would love to see more of the combat mechanics displayed in the game, defense rolls, resist rolls, damage calculations, all that fun stuff. Helps when determining how to improve your character.

[Bane]

+1 from me. The descriptions are much too vague to make informed decisions.

[boardnfool86]

I agree, I am a warrior, but when leveling Wynne and Morrigan I struggle deciding what spells I want cause I don't know how much damage they do

[SheffSteel]

I think the self only spells say "Personal"

[Vansen Elamber]

I agree with this post and the only way now is to try something and see if you like it. Also with cold enchantments on weapons I am always left wondering if they slow movement if not resisted..you would think cold would do that but with no documentation there is no way to know for sure. I know if Morrigan hits a target with her Ice blast it freezes them in place for a time so does the weapon cold damage have a similar effect? I wish I knew this

[Rianames]

/signed



The game is incomplee without the exact numbers. What are you hiding Bioware?

[Brentra]

I completely disagree. As incredible as it may sound, I believe that detailed damage and character stats ruin RPG games. Spend an hour calculating the exact critical damage of your Magic Bolt and any magical feeling you may have had about the game will go right down the drain. Name and sort your armor types by their numerical values, and you'll probably lose any sense of excitement by the time you switch you Armor of Saving Throw +2 to Armor of Saving Throw +3.

My point is, you don't really need to know every single statistic or numerical fact about an object in order to use it in real life and you most certainly don't really need to to know this stuff in games. The only reason older RPGs began using detailed stats in the first place is because they couldn't possibly transform these depth-enhancing numbers in an appropriate visual format. Today, we can do better.

[Jackrabbit_Slim]

Agreed

[Aleena]

Phalzyr wrote...

Steelmoon3101: What spell can you cast on others but not yourself? Just curious as I haven't encountered that. The self only ones say "Sustained"

From what I've played: heal, rejuvenate, regenerate, cleansing aura, heroic offense, heroic defense, heroic aura,

[Zwierzu85]

agree, log + numbers pls

[ToJKa1]

Also agreed. Please patch in some numbers, it would allows us to make informed decision, as opposed "That sounds good, but what does it do in practice?".



Really, i was expecting numbers and descriptions that i'd have to read trough more than once to fully understand.

[Aleena]

Phalzyr wrote...

Steelmoon3101: What spell can you cast on others but not yourself? Just curious as I haven't encountered that. The self only ones say "Sustained"

From what I've played: heal, lifeward, regenerate, rejuvenate, cleansing aura, heroic aura, heroic offense, heroic defense.

Edit: Argh, double post. Sorry.

Modifié par Aleena, 10 novembre 2009 - 06:24 .

[Xeranx]

My biggest gripe with a game that involves combat is that combat plays like it's a game of chess or a better analogy would be a sparring match. Is there any reason, whatsoever, that each time you're done with an enemy you have to set yourself and then go after a target? You're supposed to be fighting to stay alive, but you take the time to make sure you're in position to perform a knockdown move before you do it. You don't jump from one enemy to the next using those precious seconds to save a comrade.



I'm just saddened by this combat system. In NWN you had cleave. Yes I know, this game isn't based on D&D rules, but moving effortlessly from one enemy to the next is vital in any combat situation.

[Maeag]

+1

[Brentra]

I think I'll start calling it the WoW syndrome: players more concerned with stats and optimal damage values than immersion and actual gameplay...

[Dr3xx]

I don't really need either. The way I understand it is most spells are the same, but different schools of magic. Lightning Bolt and Frost Bolt are pretty much the same spell, but obviously certain enemy's will much prefer Nature to Ice... you know?



I don't know, I just hope if they did add a combat log, you could toggle it off... because I'd find it more of a nuisance than helpful in any way.

[SheffSteel]

Rianames wrote...

/signed

The game is incomplee without the exact numbers. What are you hiding Bioware?

The game will always be "incomplete" because you will never have all the numbers. For example, say fireball has a 30 foot radius - how far is the nearest bad guy from the furthest? Your bow has a 50 yard effective range and you have an attack of 60... so what's your chance of hitting that enemy in the distance? How many seconds will it be until your mage can cast another Cone of Cold? How much of a threat does the Ogre think each of your characters represents? How many of those Genlocks will resist being frozen?

Unless you know everything, you cannot predict what is going to happen.

The best you can hope for is to learn to get a feel for how things work. Even if you had the numbers you were asking for, you'd still need to learn. You just can't do it all by calculation.

(Even if you had all the numbers, you wouldn't be able to work out what was going to happen unless you also had access to the code that crunches those numbers. And that's the answer to your question: What Bioware is "hiding" is their proprietary code.)

[Ceskay]

I'm going to disagree, just because revealing the math leads to metagaming, which eventually leads to the total destruction of challenge and/or fun in any RPG.

[Bmadisson]

Brentra wrote...

I think I'll start calling it the WoW syndrome: players more concerned with stats and optimal damage values than immersion and actual gameplay...

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So true, still a panel with some number for the stats freak
could be fun but something you can toggle on and off so people less minded with
the actual is was it a crit of 8000 or it was way over 9000 will be happy too

[0LunarEclipse0]

Agree



+1

Well pointed out. It has a chance to sun? WHAT CHANCE? GIVE ME A PERCENTAGE PLEASE THAT"S ALL I ASK XD

[Rikaze]

Pvt_Ryan wrote...

The lack of detail about the spells and skills etc.
E.g.
The spell rock armour "Provides a bonus to armour" well yes i figured that much but how much? am I better with chainmail?

You're better off with both, obviously.  It doesn't have to be a choice.

Or forst bolt "deals cold damage and stuns enemy" ok but how much damage? Am I better with arcane bolt or frost bolt or does my staff do more than them?

Skills like these depend on whether you want raw damage output, or a tactical advantage.  Winter's Grasp and Arcane Bolt have similar damage, but to my best observations, Arcane Bolt does more damage, but at the lack of stun.  Most of the spells in the game are like this.  Look at Inferno and Blizzard.  Inferno has a higher damage output than Blizzard, but Blizzard can knock-down and freeze enemies in it's AoE.  Again, it's a choice between raw damage, and tactical options.

I have played lots of D&D RPG games over the years and they all had that detail. I realise that bioware are trying to appeal to the masses but at the same time those stats they left out of the descriptions are really essential to enjoying the game as it helps me balance my skills.

This game is NOT a DnD RPG.  The mechanics are couched in the fundamentals of the D20 system, sure, but the actual numbers it uses aren't as clear-cut as DnD's numbers, and often operate on Forumlae, rather than a dice roll.  You're not rolling your Touch-Attack, then the damage provided that's successful, based on your Attack Bonus for the attack part, and then nothing but the spell itself for the spell.  Damage is a calculated number, based on, for spells, Spellpower, which is affected by the Magic Attribute.  While your concerns are well-founded, someone else said it best...  It's WoW syndrome.

Also some form of combat log would be nice, I'd love to know damage who did what and the attacks used.

I really hope they release a patch with the extra detail the game just feels incomplete without it.

I'll agree with the combat log, though not the part about Detail.  I wouldn't mind knowing who's doing what and to whom they're doing it to in combat, but the detail...
In Dragon Age: Origins, Magic is an iffy thing.  It requires a near perfect focus and understanding of its mechanics, and even then, that only goes so far as to produce conceptual results that the mage is looking for.  The mage isn't going to know exactly how much damage their spell might do, only how to create it.  Detail may be important to you as a player, and I can understand that, but for an RPG game, lack of detail fits a purpose all it's own.  It adds a sense of mystique and wonder to the magic.  Knowing the cold number-stats doesn't allow you to balance a character.  It allows you to try to create a complete Magical Powerhouse, where as, without stats, without perfect descriptions of every damage point, you are forced, in some circumstances, to make the best use of what you've got.  This makes even First Tier Spells a very useful and necessary part of a mages playbook, especially on Hard and Nightmare difficulties.

Anyway only 20% though the game on hard so better get back at it so I can restart on nightmare...

To sum up, stats are nice if you're playing a number-cruncher's MMO, or if you're playing a DnD clone.  This is neither.  I understand and can sympathize with the feeling of lacking when faced with, at best, only a moderate description of the spells abilities, but this is a good thing for a very in-depth RPG game such as DA:O.  It forces you to do one of two things.  Say screw the stats and descriptions, and just go for the stuff that sounds cool to you, or, consider, very carefully, each and every spell you take, and how best it benefits you in any given situation, forces you to weigh the tangible AND intangible pros and cons to the best of your abilities.  There are no truly bad spells in DA:O, there aren't some spells that are just completely worthless, and others that every mage MUST have.  There are plenty of Mage Builds that could never use Tier 4 Spells and still do well against all but the most difficult of opponents.

What gets me is people assuming BioWare's made another DnD system game...  Like I said, the DA:O mechanics are couched in the fundamentals of D20, but it's not DnD, or GURPS...  It's more like a total conversion to make a D20 system more palletable for a PC, using formulae and larger numbers, numbers most people would need a calculator for...  I, for one, don't want to waste my time trying to build the perfect Damage Output Mage.  Having some heavy-hitter spells is important, sure, but I only need one or two of those.  I feel like, even on Nightmare, if I'm playing the game right, I should only need to use those spells on the biggest, hardest encounters, regardless of the other spells I've chosen.

Sorry, -1.

[kal_torak]

I fear they don't want us to give combat details because the game is so damn scaled. I think the game scales each single battle to your level ¬¬

[zam099]

the one-liners really don't give a good enough idea of what the spell/abilities do. i don't need actual numbers, i just want to know some estimate about which spells/abilities do more damage. i shouldn't have to figure out which abilities i want just by trial and error.

[0LunarEclipse0]

Being posted everywhere +1

Bioware we love you but this needs to be here to give us piece of mind.

[Arandomindividual]

I had a great time in my first playthrough - I wasn't worrying about the math side to spells and equipment.