159 réponses à ce sujet

[Radiick]

A chat Log to be able to see what and who did what kind of damage after a particular battle would be appreciated. AS well how much XP I got for killing this mob or that mob etc.... the only XP I see flash ion my screen is when I am near the mob that just died, whether I kill it or not? There must be tons more deaths elsewhere on the screen that I don't see. And mostly how much XP I get when I turn in a Quest would be more then appreciated instead of looking at my XP bar before and after turning it in to see how much I got.

[VentoDrown]

[double post, see below]

Modifié par VentoDrown, 10 novembre 2009 - 07:13 .

[Brentra]

The point is that you play with spells and abilities you like, not with ones that you think help you yield higher damage figures. If you actually know that a fireball hits for 30 damage, and a lightning strike hits for 23 damage, what are the chances of you choosing lightning strikes over fireballs then? Boy, does that sound like the type of information you really, really, really needed to know.

You whine about the numbers but I wonder how many of you would also like to see approval rating effects next to the dialogue lines. Just show me how any of my possible answers will affect my relationship with Morrigan, that's all I ask...

[VentoDrown]

*OP signed* -- choosing skills without knowing the numbers makes char development partly a game of luck. Could easily be patched which I hope Bioware is going to do.

[Bane]

Brentra wrote...

I think I'll start calling it the WoW syndrome: players more concerned with stats and optimal damage values than immersion and actual gameplay...

I have never and will never play WoW.  I've been powergaming long before WoW even existed.

I value immersion and gameplay and powergaming.  They are not mutually exclusive.  There's a certain sense of accomplishment in knowing the time and effort spent pouring over the stats and optimal damage values lead to a build that's the best it could be, statistically speaking.

The vague descriptions in DA just don't cut it and hamper at least a portion of my enjoyment of the game, believe it or not.  To each their own though.

[H3nr1k]

+1

[M-zero]

Brentra wrote...

The point is that you play with spells and abilities you like, not with ones that you think help you yield higher damage figures. If you actually know that a fireball hits for 30 damage, and a lightning strike hits for 23 damage, what are the chances of you choosing lightning strikes over fireballs then? Boy, does that sound like the type of information you really, really, really needed to know.

You whine about the numbers but I wonder how many of you would also like to see approval rating effects next to the dialogue lines. Just show me how any of my possible answers will affect my relationship with Morrigan, that's all I ask...

Wow, you sound like a complete tool.  Here's a novel idea: How about instead of dictating to other people that they should play and enjoy the game in the same exact way that you do, you just go ahead and play it however you want yourself?  I assure you, none of the "number crunchers" will care if you do so.  Would making the damage information available to players who want it somehow detract from your ability to "play with the spells and abilities you like"?  

Modifié par M-zero, 10 novembre 2009 - 07:19 .

[arrrasdgaehjskmszkm]

I agree with that, spells apart, its annoying that you dont know if yuur "ability to slow, drop damage rate and basically ******-off foes" really works or not... i stilldont know if my arrows weakens or slows oponents or what.

Besides, i like to review the combat log after combat, and its not possible.

Please, bioware guys, fix it

[mmu1]

I very much agree.

In fact, now that I think about it, this lack of information has probably been a major contributing factor to my inability to get into the DAO combat system - I'm not crazy about the level of micromanagement the game asks of me to begin with, and having to determine what works and what doesn't by trial and error as well? No thanks.

Though a bigger issue, for me, is that it also makes picking abilities at level-up a huge pain in the ass. You never know whether that new 4th level ability you pick is going to do a ton of damage, or actually turn out to be weaker than a 2nd level one you already have from a different line. (Whirlwind, I'm looking at you...)

[Clammo]

Add me to this too please.

Oh, and maybe something that tells us what item we've just gained rather than just informing us we've gained an item. Otherwise that requires us to have the memory of an elephant as to what items we previously had in our inventory, or depends on whether we happen to have scrolled over every item individually and greyed out the yellow outline for all previously gained items before we happen to gain a new one.

Otherwise so far it's a pretty damn enjoyable game in all aspects.

Modifié par Clammo, 10 novembre 2009 - 07:29 .

[GMulryan]

I second the suggestion for a log of the battle. Maybe an option to toggle the window on/off.

[SheffSteel]

M-zero wrote...

Wow, you sound like a complete tool.  Here's a novel idea: How about instead of dictating to other people that they should play and enjoy the game in the same exact way that you do, you just go ahead and play it however you want yourself?  I assure you, none of the "number crunchers" will care if you do so.  Would making the damage information available to players who want it somehow detract from your ability to "play with the spells and abilities you like"?  

If you want to research this stuff and/or write a mod to display more numbers ingame, go ahead. As you say, it won't detract from everyone else's enjoyment of the game. But don't expect the devs to patch the game just so that the min-max munchkins can see all the numbers they need to.

[Brentra]

Bane_v2 wrote...
I value immersion and gameplay and powergaming.  They are not mutually exclusive.  There's a certain sense of accomplishment in knowing the time and effort spent pouring over the stats and optimal damage values lead to a build that's the best it could be, statistically speaking.

The vague descriptions in DA just don't cut it and hamper at least a portion of my enjoyment of the game, believe it or not.  To each their own though.

All I ask is for you to tell me the difference between the following statements: "choosing skills without knowing the numbers makes char development partly a game of luck" and "choosing answers without knowing the reactions makes conversations partly a game of luck".

As for your argument, I can say that there is a much greater sense of accomplishment in knowing the time and effort spent on figuring the approximate stats and optimal damage values lead to a build that's most probably the best it could be, statistically speaking. I really do believe that inferring that fireballs do increased damage to dryads instead of looking up their exact fire fire resistance information in some sort of a tooltip window is a much better approach. Playing as a mage, it really didn't take that much time to conclude that Arcane Bolt generally does more damage than Winter's Grasp. I didn't need to use a cheat sheet either. Why it is seen as such a radical viewpoint is beyond my comprehension.

[keimosabe]

what we have here, boys and girls, is the decline of the included manual. Rpg's and flight sims have been the last 2 hold outs in the losing battle of the ever shrinking game manual. I blame it all on those damned Brady Games manuals. Once developers realized they could "partner" with Brady Games, make extra money off of us schlubs who would like the info that SHOULD have been in the manual, we were never gonna get it back.



Those Brady manuals started out as "additional info" that either greatly expanded on or was in additioan to what the manuals provided, much of it in the form of "cheat codes" and such. It slowly morphed into the actual MANUAL ITSELF once developers and probably most likely the PUBLISHERS (EA was once a cornerstone of PC gaming and now they are part of the triumverate of our downfall gang) realized the monetary potential from having us buy ADDITIONAL manuals, so began the long trip down into console hell that we now find ourselves in.



And sadly, Bioware seems to have fallen prey as well. Need proof, let's all agree that Dragon Age is nothing more than a really, really beefed up Baldur's Gate (and that is most definitely a GOOD thing). Go back and look at that manual that came with Baldur's gate and then compare it to the sorry piece of crap we got with Dragon Age. To the best of my knowledge, there is not a Brady Games manual that was available for Baldur's Gate, but I bet you will find them everywhere for Dragon Age.



It's just the way it is guys, get used to it.

[M-zero]

SheffSteel wrote...

M-zero wrote...

Wow, you sound like a complete tool.  Here's a novel idea: How about instead of dictating to other people that they should play and enjoy the game in the same exact way that you do, you just go ahead and play it however you want yourself?  I assure you, none of the "number crunchers" will care if you do so.  Would making the damage information available to players who want it somehow detract from your ability to "play with the spells and abilities you like"?  

If you want to research this stuff and/or write a mod to display more numbers ingame, go ahead. As you say, it won't detract from everyone else's enjoyment of the game. But don't expect the devs to patch the game just so that the min-max munchkins can see all the numbers they need to.

Given that the the "min max" munchkins are a pretty vast majority in this thread, asking for the information to simply be available in the game is far more reasonable than your idiotic insistance that everyone should just enjoy the game exactly as you do.

Modifié par M-zero, 10 novembre 2009 - 07:36 .

[Bane]

Brentra wrote...
[...] Why it is seen as such a radical viewpoint is beyond my comprehension.

I can say the same about your opinion of our viewpoint.  Funny how that works.

[technosatyr]

Keep in mind that in D&D the spell damage calucations were very simple to explain. The calculations used in this game are probably less-pretty to look at, and devs are reluctant to mention anything that might be overly complex for people, as it's probably bad for business.



Even if the tooltips can't show the exact damage formula for a spell, it should at least display the current damage/duration of the spell based on your current stats.



Also: every spell should have a duration listed. I was furious when I learned how short the duration on those heroic aura type spells were.

[Brentra]

Bane_v2 wrote...

Brentra wrote...
[...] Why it is seen as such a radical viewpoint is beyond my comprehension.

I can say the same about your opinion of our viewpoint.  Funny how that works.

Touche. I found your dismissive one-liner most persuasive.

[M-zero]

Bane_v2 wrote...

Brentra wrote...
[...] Why it is seen as such a radical viewpoint is beyond my comprehension.

I can say the same about your opinion of our viewpoint.  Funny how that works.

Actually, not really.  The "min maxers" are asking for an alteration to their gaming experience.  The tool you quoted is asking that there be no alteration to other people's gaming experience and that they should simply enjoy it the same way he does.   They're not defending their own gaming experience, because it would remain unaltered regardless.  They're effectively acting like a control freak attempting to force their own playstyle onto everyone, despite the fact that they have no horse in the race.

It's very much analogous to the gay marriage debate, really.

Modifié par M-zero, 10 novembre 2009 - 07:42 .

[Brentra]

M-zero wrote...

Bane_v2 wrote...

Brentra wrote...
[...] Why it is seen as such a radical viewpoint is beyond my comprehension.

I can say the same about your opinion of our viewpoint.  Funny how that works.

Actually, not really.  The "min maxers" are asking for an alteration to their gaming experience.  The tool you quoted is asking that there be no alteration to other people's gaming experience and that they should simply enjoy it the same way he does.   They're not defending their own gaming experience, because it would remain unaltered regardless.  They're effectively acting like a control freak attempting to force their own playstyle onto everyone, despite the fact that they have no horse in the race.

It's very much analogous to the gay marriage debate, really.

Except, as seen in my earlier fireball/lightning bolt argument,  there is no possible way a change like this won't affect every single person who plays the game. It would only analogous to the gay marriage debate if straight people were forced to be married with gays and are you really comparing your number crunching fetishes with a social civil right issue? Why don't you skip the foreplay and just call me Hitler?

Modifié par Brentra, 10 novembre 2009 - 07:47 .

[M-zero]

Brentra wrote...

M-zero wrote...

Bane_v2 wrote...

Brentra wrote...
[...] Why it is seen as such a radical viewpoint is beyond my comprehension.

I can say the same about your opinion of our viewpoint.  Funny how that works.

Actually, not really.  The "min maxers" are asking for an alteration to their gaming experience.  The tool you quoted is asking that there be no alteration to other people's gaming experience and that they should simply enjoy it the same way he does.   They're not defending their own gaming experience, because it would remain unaltered regardless.  They're effectively acting like a control freak attempting to force their own playstyle onto everyone, despite the fact that they have no horse in the race.

It's very much analogous to the gay marriage debate, really.

Except, as seen in my earlier fireball/lightning bolt argument,  there is no possible way a change like this won't affect every single person who plays the game.

....Hey, here's a novel idea.  You know that whole game settings section?  They could put a little check box in there titled "Display detailed statistics".  If you don't want to see them - as you clearly don't - you could simply leave it off. 

Feel free to explain how having the presence of that checkbox would metaphorically force you into a homosexual marriage.

Go on.

Oh, wait, it wouldn't: Your argument hinges on a false dichotomy.

It would only analogous to the gay marriage debate if straight people
were forced to be married with gays and are you really comparing your
number crunching fetishes with a social civil right issue? Why don't
you skip the foreplay and just call me Hitler?

The mentality, though not the magnitude, is quite comparable.  This has absolutely zero impact on you, yet you still feel compelled to try to assert control over everyone else and insist that they comply with your way.

Modifié par M-zero, 10 novembre 2009 - 07:52 .

[technosatyr]

Bane_v2 wrote...

Brentra wrote...

I think I'll start calling it the WoW syndrome: players more concerned with stats and optimal damage values than immersion and actual gameplay...

I have never and will never play WoW.  I've been powergaming long before WoW even existed.

I value immersion and gameplay and powergaming.  They are not mutually exclusive.  There's a certain sense of accomplishment in knowing the time and effort spent pouring over the stats and optimal damage values lead to a build that's the best it could be, statistically speaking.

The vague descriptions in DA just don't cut it and hamper at least a portion of my enjoyment of the game, believe it or not.  To each their own though.

Agreed. 

I also note that this game is supposed to focus heavily on tactics, and on using each of your abilities to their maximum.  If I have a mage that I'm bringing for AOE DPS I need to know early on what the DPS potentials of each school are.  If Fireball does three times the damgae of chain lightning I need to know that early on, or I'll be wasting points into chain lightning.  If sleep lasts twice as long as Mass Paralyze that'll be a significant reason to take one over the other.

What about casting times?  I just learned lightning storm only to find it's got a cast time that's so lengthy that the spell is practically useless to me.  I know sleep and Mass Paralyze, but I can gaurentee that I use sleep a lot more often cause it doesn't have a cast time and MassP does. 

I've already had to completely reload because I've gotten my character to a point where he's taken so many poor spells that he's nearly unplayable. 

*******************************
TIP: Buy a few of those books that'll give you bonus spell points (get at least three and save them for a level up).  When you level up, save before you distribute your points.  Then you can level up and use the three books you've saved to max out a spell line and then you can go play with the spells a bit in a random encounter. 

You're still screwed when it comes to choosing specialization path spells, but at least it helps a bit for the main lines. 
*******************************

[SheffSteel]

M-zero wrote...

SheffSteel wrote...

If you want to research this stuff and/or write a mod to display more numbers ingame, go ahead. As you say, it won't detract from everyone else's enjoyment of the game. But don't expect the devs to patch the game just so that the min-max munchkins can see all the numbers they need to.

Given that the the "min max" munchkins are a pretty vast majority in this thread, asking for the information to simply be available in the game is far more reasonable than your idiotic insistance that everyone should just enjoy the game exactly as you do.

Wow, you sound like a complete tool. I told you you could do whatever you wanted, which is far more reasonable than your idiotic insistance that everyone should just enjoy the game exactly as you want to.

I've already explained why having what you think you want won't be enough. But if you want to get some more numbers onscreen, good luck with your modding and I hope it makes you feel better. Just don't expect the devs to change everybody's game experience on your behalf.

Modifié par SheffSteel, 10 novembre 2009 - 07:56 .

[Brentra]

M-zero wrote...

It would only analogous to the gay marriage debate if straight people were forced to be married with gays and are you really comparing your number crunching fetishes with a social civil right issue? Why don't you skip the foreplay and just call me Hitler?

The mentality, though not the magnitude, is quite comparable.  This has absolutely zero impact on you, yet you still feel compelled to try to assert control over everyone else and insist that they comply with your way.

Oh, I see. And I thought I was having a civilized discussion why I think that detailed statistics in role-playing games is a thing of the past. As it turns out to be, I was just unknowingly gay-bashing...

EDIT: I see the trend continues throughout the entire last page. Let's keep it civil before the thread gets locked.

Modifié par Brentra, 10 novembre 2009 - 07:56 .