4117 réponses à ce sujet

[OBakaSama]

It is the FA who are handing out the punishment in the Suarez case. For the Rooney tackle...well...the English FA have this 'rule' where if the referee has dealt with an incident it is deemed the end of the matter; and seemingly only when a referee hasn't seen an incident, or is unaware of its occurrence, do the FA then intervene with some retrospective punishment. A bit daft as the French FA punish regardless of whether the referee has seen it or not. Mind you, one has to remember that the English FA is somewhat inconsistent...

Santos are denying that a deal is in place with Barcelona last I read; they are expecting a bidding war in 2014 apparently. Barcelona do have a lot of players which fit their system, and some players might not fit the system. Sounds like you have doubts as to whether Neymar would fit their style of play, modjo.

*Shakes right fist at the sky* "Damn those late equalizers!" Actually Norwich are probably shakiest in their defence, but they do well as a team to limit the opposition's chances; we aren't too bad going forward as we do manage to score against the big teams. At least that's what my opinion tells me as I sit in my armchair shaking my fist at the sky....

Oh well.... Tevez is admittedly a pretty good player, but I think his first touch is a bit poor myself; he seems to lose the ball a bit too often for a player of his (supposed) class when he is receiving the ball.

Interesting results on Boxing day. Both Manchester clubs are now level on points with City being top due to goal difference. Exciting times abound. King Kenny is unable to beat Bob even with Captain Fantastic back playing.... Reina reckons that opposition goalkeepers play better against Liverpool. Could it just be that their players aren't able to score?

[OBakaSama]

The English FA claim they cannot do anything if the referee has dealt with an incident, which is why they have to wait for the referee's report; but the French FA makes a lot more sense quite frankly. Given Suarez's case I think it will just apply to any domestic competition but wouldn't be surprised to see it limited to just the league though. Also read that Suarez has an extra game ban for his gesture towards...Fulham fans was it? Unless Liverpool can get the first one reduced he's going to miss nine games.

It seems to me most of the best players tend to end up in Europe. It's likely to be only a matter of time before he ends up at one of the big European clubs. Come to think of it I'm not sure about the bidding war that Santos anticipate though as the financial fair play rules would have come into effect then, and all clubs would have a stricter limit how much they can bid for him....hm..........

So I heard. *Shakes fist in the air* Did hear we got lucky that Tottenham weren't awarded a penalty for a trip on Gallas (sometimes I forget he's still there for some reason), so it could have been worse. Still....January transfer window to look forward to; let's see if Lambert can work some magic and get some defensive cover in.

He does, which is the only reason why anyone would want him really. I've seen highlights where he loses the ball when no-one tackles him and got the impression that his first touch is close to being non-existent as a result. You look at players like David Silva or Aguero and how they control the ball with their first touch there's a massive gulf between them and Tevez. And Man City have done very well without him as well. With the African Cup of Nations about to start it will be interesting to see how they cope without the brothers Toure especially now Man Utd are level on points with them. Intriguing times ahead.

Mourinho has always stated that he intends to come back to the Premiership; though which club is the question of course. It was suggested that he would eye Man Utd, though I don't think Druss'll be too pleased with that prospect. Would be funny if he replaced Mancini at Man City though.

Dalglish is out for the press again as it's their fault that they are criticizing Andy Carroll's form and stuff. I thought the press criticizes because he isn't living up to expectations, but apparently they are conjuring things up. Riiiight.....

[Druss99]

Edit: OBaka's post wasn't showing up when I started typing mine, possibly because I went to fix a tv in the middle of it. Oops.

The FA apparently believe it undermines the ref's authority if they go back and change his decisions.

I could point out all the reasons why I hate Tevez but I won't bother since it apparently boils down to me hating him for leaving United, dunno how I got to there from actually wanting him to leave. But thanks for pointing that out Modjo thats exactly what I needed. I feel like a better person already.

Suarez has been given another ban, 1 game for flipping off the Fulham fans. While I'm against this nonsense of players not being able to react to all the abuse they get, I'm glad the FA handed out a ban. Atleast its consistant on this subject...mostly. Little do the FA know though that the middle finger is a term of endearment in Uruguay(I stole this joke). The tshirts will be out again.

The Ajax - AZ game is to be replayed in full next month behind closed doors according to SSN.

Theres someone else I noticed has a first touch that keeps taking the ball up into the air, can't quite think who it is, maybe its Tevez I'm thinking of too. Is it Rooney? Hhmmm. Its escaping me at the minute. Its actually a medical thing, I suffer from the same problem on occassion, it was diagnosed as "being a bit sh*t".

I hope United sign Berbatov up for another year or two soon, he isn't getting any younger but he offers us something different up front and is my favourite player to watch.

It must be the prestige of playing against the club that finished 6th that inspires keepers against Liverpool. They seem to have taken Arsenals curse of hitting the woodwork and just not finishing off chances. Dalglish is beginning to worry me every time he does an interview now, he seems like he is close to the edge or something and constantly grasping at straws.

Bob got a bit of a reprieve in that game but faces an away trip to an in form again United next. That could end very badly for him if they don't get a few defenders back in the team. Pederson at leftback facing Valencia or Nani? I don't fancy his chances. Liverpool had no real right winger to take him on but he was a bit of a shambles there against Bolton. Not his fault though, he isn't a fullback.

Soccer Saturday were talking about that Bob situation and it seemed to be the exact same media line that its terrible and the worst abuse any manager has ever suffered but failed to say why. Paul Merson talked for a good 7 minutes about it without actually saying anything...I miss George Best and Rodney Marsh...Apparently Venky's were at one game but they took a bit of stick and left again, leaving Bob alone to take the flak. Fair play to him though for refusing to quit until they fire him and have to pay him severence.

I was trying to find the quotes from Eden Hazard's agent talking about him wanting to join one of Europe's "prestige" clubs, the list was Barca, Real Madrid, Man City, Chelsea, Inter and AC Milan. Can anyone spot the two clubs that don't quite fit in with the prestige club claim? The deciding factor on where he goes seems rather apparent there too.

Modifié par Druss99, 28 décembre 2011 - 05:24 .

[OBakaSama]

Curse the forum's sometimes tardiness. *Shakes fist at monitor* "This is becoming a habit...."

FA: forgot about that reasoning. Makes some sort of sense, but when they (the referee) get it wrong though....dear me.

First touch: I hear that medical condition can be career threatening....

Berbatov: watching some MOTD the other night they mentioned he gives something different to the team, but also was somewhat inconsistent with what he can give. Personally retaining Berbatov would be good, and I think he could fit that destroyer of small teams role that a certain C. Ronaldo was pretty handy at. Certainly when Berbatov plays well he is a joy to watch.

Liverpool: their ability to not finish off chances isn't particularly new, though it has been a bit underplayed in more recent years. I still think back to the season when Sunderland were relegated (yeah, we're going back a bit now) where they had goodness knows how much possession and 20 odd shots on the goal, with Sunderland not even leaving their own half of the pitch, and...it was still a 0-0 game. Wasn't Ian Rush supposed to have helped train the strikers at some point?

Bob: I can't help but think that the protesting is a bit more than the run-of-the-mill thing given the reactions of other managers and stuff. To be fair to Bob though, you have to admit he's handling himself well in front of the cameras so far. Something a certain K. Dalglish could probably learn to do....

Hm...that list of clubs does look like it has a few nice clubs there. Can't possibly imagine how he'll choose which club he'd go to. (One article I googled suggests that Juventus is on that list too.)

[Druss99]

I think if the FA ever started changing decisions their work would never be done looking at incidents clubs complain about no matter what the merits are.

It can be...

Berbatov can hold the ball up, bring others into play and open up defences better than most of our other strikers, I think he's an option we need to keep unless Sir Alex has a replacement lined up which is doubtful.

Since Fowler and Owen left I've always thought of Liverpool as a strikers graveyard, only Torres seemed to buck the trend. Not sure about Rush though. Be interesting to see how Carroll does now with Suarez suspended.

From the reports I've seen on SSN and from watching the Bolton game its just chanting during the match and protests outside the training ground and stadium with people dressed as chickens. It's not much worse than the Hodgson for England chants and the constant letters to papers/websites and phonecalls to tv shows from last year. Its not like they have forced a player out of the club because they think he is beneath them and the manager they don't like signed him, like a certain other club did. From what I've seen anyway, maybe something is being covered up that only managers are privvy to. Or most likely they are closing ranks to prevent the same thing ever happening to them.

Hhmm I think Juve were possibly on it instead of AC Milan. Why didn't they just say PSG and Malaga too and get it over with? We can all see he really means "We will go to any team willing to pay massive wages." As soon as the words Man City and Chelsea are mentioned we all know what the motivation is. Atleast Adebayor or Drogba(possibly both) admitted it recently.

[OBakaSama]

Berbatov is a good option to have, and can be a joy to watch. For whatever reason in Ferguson's mind though he isn't in the starting line-up. Read that Ferguson won't be changing his transfer strategy just yet, so there doesn't seem to be much in the way of transfers lined up.

Liverpool as a striker's graveyard, huh? I now have in my head that it stayed a striker's graveyard with Torres having to claw his way out when he got there, but even then the gravitational pull of the graveyard was too much for him to overcome and he succumbed to it. Even at Chelsea......

Very strange that managers should take the stance they have considering there has been worse things chanted during matches. And perhaps it's easier to close ranks when the club seems to be in such turmoil considering the current ownership. Hm...come to think of it perhaps it's also a way to shift the blame on the team's fortune onto the owner rather than the manager.

Refreshing honesty from Drogba's agent on that particular note; he will go where he gets the most money. Fair enough. Now if Joorabchian had stated something like that there might be a possibility that it makes Tevez a bit less offensive.

On the list of teams though I think you were right with the initial one and only Juventus were missing, no big deal. Wouldn't be too sure of PSG, though they have a bit of money now, they were always one of France's top teams (at least in my head they are....). In terms of prestige....well....Liverpool would have to be there considering their achievements as should Man Utd. Pretty sure that Bayern Munich would be there as well. Ooo...name the 'top' teams in Europe....

Just read that Henry is indeed heading back to Arsenal on loan. Good move or hoping for too much? Wonder how he plays now.

Gary Cahill possibly off to Chelsea. Hm....not sure of this one at the moment given how Bolton are playing. It sort of feels like the Torres transfer to me if Cahill can't find the form which brought him to attention in the first place.

[Druss99]

Sir Alex just confirmed that United are activating the automatic extension to Berbatov's contract, I sighed with relief. I can't see us bringing anyone in, theres probably no money for it. Though I hear Di Rossi's contract is up at the end of the year so theres a possibility there. We clearly need a midfielder or two, the only central midfielder we currently have fit is having to play at centreback. That's not a good state of affairs right there.

Hhmmm I didn't consider that with Torres. Off the top of my head theres Cisse, Diouf, Morientes, Bellamy, Crouch, Heskey and Kuyt who all went there as strikers and either flopped or became no longer strikers. Then they got one that worked and they broke him.

The media is calling it vile abuse now too but mentioning nothing more than the chants and protests so I'm baffled. Maybe they just want this story to run and run.

Ha no chance of that. Mancini was on SSN there claiming he hopes Tevez will be gone within ten days, wouldn't he need to be there to actually leave? But its still locked in sale/loan limbo. Are AC Milan not atleast suspicious of why City are desperate to offload him or have City got them believing its all about finances? Something tells me AC won't be buying him at £25m and then paying him £200k a week when all they want is back up for Cassano. This one will drag on and on I suspect.

In terms of prestige City and Chelsea should be nowhere near it. When I were a lad PSG were one of the top teams in France along with Nantes, but they seem to have been pants in recent years. Hhmmm top teams, I think theres probably a few tiers with top teams that have money, top teams that have history but no money or lack of recent success and teams with no history but current sugar daddies such as...

Tier 1:
Barcelona
Real Madrid
Man United
Bayern Munich
AC Milan
Juventus
Inter Milan
Lyon

Tier 2:
Roma
Napoli?
Arsenal
Liverpool
Ajax
PSV
Marseille
PSG(I think)
Porto(kind of)
Benfica(kind of)

Tier 3:
Chelsea
Anzhi Micheala Strachan or whatever they are called
Man City
Malaga

Thats just me putting absolutely no thought into it, I'm sure someone else can fix that list or spot what I've missed. I suppose Celtic and Rangers could be counted along with Benfica and Porto perhaps in their own mini tier? I dunno, I'm all hopped up on all-bran.

Henry to me is just Wenger refusing to spend money and I don't see him doing much, I vaguely think I remember Henry playing against United in a pre-season friendly and looking past it. I think Everton getting Donovan back was a good deal though.

Cahill has never convinced me, if he was that good then why have teams waited until he was going cheap to buy him? Apparently the deal has hit a snag over personal terms. To my mind Alex is a better defender but then Alex isn't English and had the nerve to ask for a transfer because he isn't being played, the dirty swine.

[OBakaSama]

It does seem to be a bit of a running theme with Man Utd and their defenders during this Christmas/New Year period where the injuries seem to pile up. It does look like it might destabilize them if not careful.

Cisse was tremendously unlucky at Liverpool to the extent that his stay there was cursed. The manager who brought him to the club had left and the new one didn't really want him. He got his leg broken within months (weeks?) of being there which couldn't have helped his cause, and then got broke again in a friendly before the World Cup. Both incidents seemed like nothing but he still ended up with a broken leg. Kuyt...well...good striker in Holland and rarely if ever given the chance to be a striker at Liverpool. Not sure what the reasoning behind that move was.

Perhaps it's just slow news recently then. If what you heard is all that is being chanted then it doesn't sound that bad, though I suppose could be annoying for the person being targeted. I think I read that one of the players (Yakubu, was it?) that said that the protesting is effecting the team. I can see that happening seeing that despite what we think of Bob the players seem to like him enough.

I suppose it would be a long shot that Tevez could be less offensive. I can't really see an end to the saga myself, and he's likely to stay in Argentina playing golf. While the ball is very much in Man City's court as to what they want, I don't think many clubs would be willing to take the gamble of signing Tevez straightaway for a large amount of money.

Agreed that when it comes to prestige that money shouldn't figure into it. When I think of prestige I'm thinking about the club's achievement in the league and perhaps abroad as well. Using everyone's friend that is Wikipedia the English clubs that should be considered prestigious are Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal and Everton based on the league alone. Tottenham have a case when considering the FA cup; Aston Villa too. Chelsea would have to be considered along with Tottenham as well in terms of domestic cup success. Historically Chelsea seem distinctly second tier in achievement.

In Italy the most prestigious club is argubly Juventus by the looks of things. By far more league titles than either Milan club, and had it not been for the match fixing scandal I would think they would be just as dominant now. Roma with their Coppa Italia success, and Torino are no slouches there historically either.

Having browsed around a bit it seems that some countries on the continent really only have one major cup competition. Almost seems that England are unique from my limited understanding that we have the FA cup and the league cup (Carling cup). (Well...Portugal seem to have three domestic competitions as well, though their equivalent of the league cup is very new by comparison.)

Anyway...wouldn't disagree with the lists as they stand; they seem perfectly reasonable to me.

Everton need players there, and Donovan will be someone they'll need. Looks like the Henry deal isn't completely finalized after all, apparently insurance issues. I suppose that follows what happened to Beckham the other year at AC while on loan. Understandable. I don't recall Henry being injured that much during his time at Arsenal, but hazy memory in action.

When in form he seemed pretty decent, and that's when clubs really should have got him and hoped that he could maintain that form and improve. Not entirely sure it's wise to get him now that Bolton are in such a dire situation where most players don't really come out of it well. Unless he can be coached back into form. And that's where it seems to go even dodgier. Because if AVB and his staff are capable of doing that then why is Torres still out of sorts? (Ignoring the gravitational pull of the Liverpool strikers' graveyard.) It seems to be a bit of a bad situation there in terms of instilling confidence and form into players at Chelsea.

Of course, players wanting to leave a club because they aren't getting games and want to play football is the bane of the modern game. How dare they want to play football; tis a disgrace I tell ya! Next they'll be wanting to win games....

[OBakaSama]

Well...that was a kicker of a match day. Man City are laughing throughout all of that. They'll have more to laugh about if they win their next game as well.

Rather glad that Norwich didn't lose to Fulham at Carrow Road, otherwise that would have been two home defeats on the trot. That could have been really damaging for morale.

FA's report on Suarez came out the other day. Basically....not particularly looking good for Suarez given his own testimony. That is what condemned him more than anything else.

EDIT: having finished reading the FA's 115 page document....(I was bored), what stands out to me is that...Dalglish knows 'restautant Spanish'.

Modifié par OBakaSama, 01 janvier 2012 - 03:14 .

[Druss99]

I was a tad enraged after United lost 3-2 to Blackburn. But then I saw our starting midfield and attack was 3 wingers and 3 centre forwards trying to play a 4-3-3, surely its a sign that we atleast need to get a central midfielder on loan for a couple of months or play Pogba?

Rumours going round that Rooney, Gibson and Evans were dropped for going drinking on boxing night. Personally I hope thats Rooney's final chance and he will now be sold, for too long he has dragged our club through the mud with his behaviour both on and off the pitch, he has absolutely no loyalty to anyone, Everton, his wife or United. He is being paid wages way above what his ability is worth and he should be the absolute pinnacle of professionalism now considering what he's gotten away with in the past. I've no respect for him as a human being after what he did to his wife then having the cheek to demand a transfer or more money after the club stuck by him through everything.

I thought Norwich might squeeze a result out of that game. Bad day for AVB, how long until the trigger is pulled? Man City just lost making our result yesterday less of a disaster.

I read the reports on the report, I was going to read the whole thing but 115 pages? Its made Liverpools protests look even stupider, if they had just waited for the report instead of jumping the gun like that they wouldn't look so stupid. Given what Suarez is alledged to have said and done with the "I don't speak to blacks" comment and then trying to pinch Evra's skin to show he's black, the FA went light on him by saying he's not a racist just a fool basically. How does Glen Johnson feel now? Damien Camolli apparently knew what Suarez had said and done too but that wasn't enough to stop the tshirts and protests. Theres something not right there, that or Liverpool were going to defend Suarez no matter what the evidence against him was.

Torino must have been a long time ago, I think I only through Napoli in because of the Maradona factor.

[OBakaSama]

Aren't there rumours that Pogba wants to move? But Man City losing today would certainly lessen the disappointment of losing to Blackburn yesterday. As a result not a great deal has changed, well...Arsenal had the best deal in all that.

Hm...wondered why, seems plausible too. Rooney is an example of one of them too much too young people. I'm generally of the opinion that he may have peaked as a player.

Norwich fan: "we were tenacious to the end!"
Fulham fan: "Norwich got lucky."

Have to wonder whether AVB will be given the time. Or can we expect a sudden parting with mutual consent?

*Ahem* That should have read 'restaurant Spanish'. Nitpicking aside....

I can see Liverpool launching an appeal still to be honest. While the FA's reconstruction of the case seems to be fair given the evidence available, the one thing up in the air, as far as I'm concerned, is the number of times Suarez supposedly used the word. The FA in the end reckons he used it 7 times which gained him an additional four match ban. By the FA's own account it would seem that only about two usages can really be accounted for by the looks of things, at least the way I read it. It just might be possible for Liverpool to reduce it to a four game ban.

Evra essentially downplayed the accusation made against Suarez in the end, but Suarez's own testimony was inconsistent in crucial parts according to the report. He tried to change things when shown the video footage. Also, when he was questioned he was unable to answer a simple yes or no question. Comolli and Kuyt's accounts also didn't help Suarez much either; Comolli's account differs from the referee's recollection of the incident and the FA sided with the referee in this case.

What's most damning is perhaps Suarez's defence being that his usage wasn't meant to be offensive. The FA used two linguistic experts to determine the cultural/linguistic argument. I'm sure we can understand the situation there as sometimes things don't translate well into another language. Unfortunately for Suarez his claim isn't that simple because some people in his native Uruguay would take offence to it. Even the cultural argument doesn't quite work for him.

The context didn't help him, which we've been through ourselves here, as his usage of it being a term of camaraderie only works if you are in such a relationship with the person; it doesn't seem to be the best choice of words if there is hostility between you. The FA took this stance as well. What is interesting is that apparently Suarez does call Johnson that, and if that is the case then Johnson was also foolish not to warn Suarez that the term could be understood as being racist.

Ultimately Liverpool's defence of Suarez was way too weak with it being that he isn't guilty because he is not racist. That point was never up for scrutiny throughout the case; what was was the usage of certain words/actions deemed to be of a certain nature which they thought were. They were also trying for the subjective approach that the term isn't racist because Suarez didn't mean it to be, even though the wider community would think it is (an objective approach); i.e., favouring the individual regardless of the sensibilities of the wider community. That approach just wouldn't work in a court of law.

Enough seriousness for now. Would still expect the ban to be reduced to four games if they appeal though. He'll only have to miss five games this season. Might give Carroll a chance to get into form.

I'm pretty sure it was a long time for Torino, but then some supporters are very proud of their historical achievements. Having noted that I have discovered that Norwich have never won the top league title whereas Ipswich have. They'll always have that up against us..... And yeah on Napoli. I've seen that being described as 'they had no business winning the league until they bought Maradona'. The last time such a purchase had such an impact was perhaps Shearer to Blackburn? Don't know of many others like that. With all the money now-a-days I doubt we'll ever see something like that again.

[Druss99]

Rumours Pogba won't sign a new deal and can talk to other teams this month, but also rumours his contract isn't up until next year and United have an automatic option for another year. So who knows? If he was good enough though surely Sir Alex would have played him, its not like Sir Alex isn't known for bringing through youth. Its a mystery.

I think Rooney did peak a couple of years ago when he scored all the goals. He hasn't been the same player since but since he is English as soon as he plays half decent the media have him painted as world class. If it was PES his growth chart would have went up in a peak then came down a bit and leveled off for a few years before steadyily going down. The drinking punishment is just a rumour at the minute but I've been hoping since last year to see the back of him.

Do you have a link to the full report? I'm hearing reports that Dalglish and Commoli both knew exactly what Suarez had done and said, yet still denied it and launched those defences of him, including all the speeches to the media trying to sway the vote. Surely if thats true the FA should be taking action against them and Liverpool as a whole? Also Commoli changing his story should be worthy of some sort of sanction? Given their behaviour on the whole would it not appear to vindicate them now if the FA were to reduce the ban at all?

I think Blackburn spent alot more than just buy Shearer though, he was the main man but they were really spunking the cash around if I remember right.

I'd a feeling Man City might struggle over Christmas, alot of their players they bought from the continent. Players who are used to having a winter break at this time of year rather than being subjected to the heaviest fixture list of the season.

[OBakaSama]

If Man Utd have one of those extension clauses it wouldn't surprise me if it gets activated to keep Pogba there. Might also give Ferguson the time to persuade him to stay if he wants to leave, or give him a bit more time to shine.

That's my gut feeling. Going back to the PES player development charts though there were some players who would have rapid rises then plateaus, while others just sort of drop off. Rooney's may be on a steady decline given his ability over the years. Torres looks to be a rapid drop after a short plateau at a relatively young age. I remember in one of the PES games when building my Master League team that Alan Smith was an absolute beast of a player; his chart was obscenely good.

Oddly going back to the FA site the link seems to have gone. Luckily internet history comes in for the save. Lengthy reading ahoy! Actual PDF that they released. As I mentioned I believe the most contentious decision was how many times they decided Suarez used the term in question which added another four games to the ban; after all only one usage is properly accounted for and other incidents Suarez could have used any other inflammatory language to wind Evra up. If Liverpool were to contest the length of the ban that seems to be the only way in which they can argue against it; I can't see another way they can possibly try to reduce the ban.

I don't recall Comolli changing his story as such, certainly not in the manner that Suarez did, but it didn't gel with the referee's report on the incident. To be fair to him it could just have been a detail he forgot that others remembered. Liverpool's actions as a whole were questionable though; the public show of support for Suarez was ill advised at best and downright insulting/discriminating at worst (Chelsea have more sense in this respect).

Their defence of Suarez is I would imagine pretty standard for such things. I have in mind a legal case where a lawyer for the defence would try and lessen the punishment given the evidence available, and it was available to them as the report notes unlike in some actual legal cases. I would only guess that it is what their lawyers advised, which seems misguided in my opinion. When you read the report you'll hit upon a couple of things which really makes you question how Liverpool prepared for the hearing: Suarez's unfamiliarity with his own statement, and his apparent lack of preparation for the questions that were asked. I would have thought that Liverpool's lawyers would have helped Suarez to prepare for the case, especially since his English isn't that good and needed a translator.

I don't think reducing the ban would vindicate Liverpool as such (they still behaved rather poorly and everyone can see what they did); just that the ban itself may be contested on the grounds that there was not solid evidence to show that Suarez used the term the number of times the FA believed he used (seven times). Also the FA has stated that should this offence be repeated by Suarez two more times then he will be permanently banned. It'll be interesting to see whether Liverpool do press ahead with an appeal. Personally I agree with those who are of the opinion that they should accept it and have Suarez learn this (cultural) lesson.

Can't remember that far back, but likelihood is they did. They also had Chris Sutton at the time as well partnering Shearer up front. Shearer's signing seemed to make it more likely at the time that they could win the league. To think, from those glory days of Shearer and the league to...Venky's and Bob.

Hm...that's a good point on the winter break; they would be used to it on the continent as well. Mind you, we've had two England managers suggesting that a winter break would be beneficial for the players come international tournament time. Would also give players a chance to recover from some niggles. Probably why some clubs lose so many players over this winter period; their players break down.

Man City's loss could be said to be unfortunate as Ji was offside at the time. Now the important question following that is this: when does Ji Dong-Won become Dong-Won Ji? Sky's website have 'westernised' his name to Dong-Won Ji already while last night the BBC's site were still using Ji Dong-Won.

Torino are very much a past glory club with few recent achievements. But when you've won things you've won them. (I wish I could erase Ipswich's sole league title....) While we started on the issue of prestige I think it's what some (most?) fans call 'history'. In that respect if anyone with a ton of money wants to buy a club with history then Everton should be a prime target. Looking at Moyes and the job he does there I can only think 'if only....'

Hopefully it'll work for Henry back at Arsenal (has the move been finalized yet?). They'll certainly need the numbers with the African Cup of Nations due to start soon. Will also be crunch time for Man City without Yaya Toure as well seeing how well he seemed to play yesterday against Sunderland.

Carroll's form: back of the sofa/couch. At least that's where I'll look for something I've lost anyway.

Crikey! That's quite a thing to do. For some reason I can't really see something like that happening here; probably be deemed too inflammatory or something. Mind you, there are probably a few players' careers we can hold a funeral for if they don't improve soon.....

EDIT: have just read the F365 mailbox. Have to admit that I can't remember all the details so some of it escapes me (like Kuyt siding with Evra's side in terms of what was said, and "because you're black" being fact (to me that seemed to be up in the air due to the translation of some of the other words so not as concrete)). Interesting to see the purported Liverpool fans' defence of Suarez as well.

After all that seriousness we need some more guffaws.

[Druss99]

I just read 99 pages of it and can take no more. Hhmm the "because you're black" comment seemed to be up in the air too but became fact towards the end because Suarez initially admitted he said that under different context but then changed his story. Kuyt didn't so much agree with Evra as Suarez told him and Commolli one story and then told the hearing a different one. Another point was the whole "I don't speak to blacks" thing which was accepted on the same grounds I think, basically that Evra was telling the truth and Suarez clearly lying.

Basically Suarez was caught lying, Liverpool don't look as bad but still look fairly bad for backing him. Kuyt doesn't come out of it smelling of roses either, alot of what he claims to have said during the match is an obvious lie. No one speaks that nicely during a game of football. Kuyt's testimony reminds me of the guy Cantona attacked, he claimed he said "Off off, go on Cantona have an early bath!" which was just completely unbelievable.

It's killed my eyes so I can't even comment on the other stuff lol.

Modifié par Druss99, 03 janvier 2012 - 02:28 .

[OBakaSama]

Basically, it seems to me, that the FA agreed with Evra's version of events because it fitted with the evidence better. Given the case that's understandable, but at a deeper level it doesn't make it fact in the sense we're accustomed to using the word.

I would put it down to Man Utd's legal team doing a better job than Liverpool's. Man Utd's side were consistent throughout whereas Liverpool's were all over the place; worse still, some of the Liverpool side of the hearing were inconsistent with the referee's and officials and in those cases we know the FA would side with the officials.

Suarez's testimony was inconsistent for parts of it, and didn't fit the evidence at hand either. His claim of reconciliation in his statement was seemingly forgotten when he was questioned, and the action at the time did not seem to represent a reconciliatory action anyway. In that it made his version of events unbelieveable.

I still think that if Liverpool were to contest the ban it can only be on the grounds of how many times Suarez is said to have used the term simply because there doesn't seem to be enough independent evidence for it except for the one he admitted to (which is enough for the four game ban anyway it would seem). Still think there's a moral objection to it if they do, but 'legally' that's all they can really question. Mind you...some official in Europe for one of the anti-racism campaigns has warned Liverpool they would (could?) damage their reputation if they do contest the charges though. PR-wise they look very foolish now in retrospect after the publication of the report; do they really want to pursue such a course of action? Gossip has it they're interested in Darren Bent, and if true they are planning for a while without Suarez.

You must have noticed Dalglish's restaurant Spanish at least, Druss.

Arsenal fluffing their game against Fulham yesterday came as a shock when browsing the results. Made sense after finding out they were a man down. Gone are the days when Arsenal could still beat you with 10 men...

Chelsea were very fortunate (to put it mildly) to have all 11 men on the pitch after Lampard's challenge and Cole's persistent fouling (not even a yellow?). Big Mick is understandably peeved given how some of the refereeing went for that game.

Bob's team get back to form. They go away to Old Trafford and win only to lose at Stoke. Would have thought that after such a win it would be one of those moments that managers and teams can build up on. Looks like they completely failed to do that. So...where's that goose?

As much as I am happy about Norwich's win over QPR I would have to 'say' that Barton was unlucky about being sent off given what led up to the incident. It looked very much like our players were trying to wind him up and succeed in doing so. Would have to disagree with Warnock (his comments on MOTD) about Johnson's reaction is what got Barton sent off though. Johnson didn't fall to the ground clutching his face; he walked away rubbing the bridge of his nose or thereabouts and wasn't even waving to get the officials' attention to what happened.

[Druss99]

The commission agreed with Evra because they didn't catch him lying, there was comments about how much Suarez and his representatives were going on about being well prepared and then turned up telling several different versions of what happened. It seemed to me like they tried to prepare him but he unravelled the whole thing himself. Even his twitter comments and the interview he gave helped unravel it.

The reconcilliation thing was questioned and highlighted if I remember right. They had to ask him 4 or 5 times about it and he kept avoiding the question with the questioner getting increasingly annoyed. He eventually kind of admitted that he wasn't trying to be reconcilliatory with the pinch but then stuck to the original story if I read it right.

They also went by his face and body language as he was being clearly aggressive. Given the evidence and how he behaved in the aftermath I'd find him guilty.

I did notice that, was he standing there thinking about food as it was happening? I imagined him going into the referee's room and saying "I could'nae pick it all up but he seems to want some black coffee."

Arsenal were under pressure even before the sending off, they seemed to be pinned in their own half from what I saw.

Big Mick is even more peeved considering the sending off and red card being upheld Milijas had against him last week. That refereeing performance was decidedly dodgy, it wasn't just one decision that swung that game yesterday, it was several which makes it look even fishier.

Seems to be a theme at the bottom with no consistancy and being unable to capitalize on good results. Did you see Bob get flattened by Pedersen?

I only briefly saw the Barton incident and heard about his tweeting claiming Johnson fooled the ref. I'd contend that Johnson barely reacted and its Barton's own bloody fault for going in with his head, but I only saw it briefly with no reply much like the ref.

Modifié par Druss99, 03 janvier 2012 - 02:16 .

[OBakaSama]

Yeah, that's pretty much how the FA acted in this case. Suarez did mess things up for himself, and it makes him difficult to side with. The conciliatory thing was....well...he didn't even acknowledge it when questioned, and seeing how he was 'dodging' the question...well...he just didn't bother answering it really; politician's dodge. I think it mentions that the additional video footage couldn't capture their faces so had to rely on their body language which is perfectly understandable.

If that had come up in the referee's report...."what was I supposed to do about that?" When I first saw the 'restaurant Spanish' thing...er...Rafa Bentitez. *Cough*

I had thought Arsenal could have taken advantage of the slip ups around them, so...pretty much where we started in a sense.

I sense...conspiracy....

That does seem to be the case. Starting to wonder if all of a sudden Bolton had to play Barcelona..... Yep. Twas a funny moment. Can't remember who else has been flattened like that.

It's a peculiar incident because others seem to think that Johnson did crumple or something and deliberately conned the ref (this was listening to TalkSport so I'm not sure how reliable that was...) and I just don't see that. Perhaps there is a case to suggest that Barton's reputation preceeded him in this case, though he did move his head forward (certainly not a classical headbutt anyway). By the letter of the law it was probably the right decision. Have heard some ridiculous things concerning what he plans to do though.

Additional: so Liverpool decide not to appeal (overall the right decision) but just couldn't resist taking a pop at the authorities. Again stating that Suarez is not racist (an issue which was not even put forth, why can't they understand that?). Claiming that it was all subjective and against Suarez (his inconsistent testimony had nothing to do with it and was conspicuous in its absence...unsurprisingly).

[Druss99]

His eventual answer was like half an admission, he clearly knew what he was doing dodging the question, you called it with politicians dodge. I think they had enough of a view at times of Suarez's face to declare him clearly being aggressive or something, I was tired of it by the time it got to that point though so maybe I got it mixed up. The part that I found most ridiculous was the original foul, it was a nothing foul. Personally, given the evidence and all, I'm pretty sure he did it. Liverpool's defence that Evra wanted revenge for being kicked and Suarez not saying sorry so he made up these lies knowing there were camera's allover the ground and what the outcome would be is laughable. Every defence they had seemed to involve clutching at straws to me.

Ha I was wondering where you were going with that, I'd completely forgotten that Benitez even existed. Although every once in a while he pops up on SSN arriving at a random PL clubs ground with a folder claiming he wants to get back into the PL, they never say why he is there or whats in the folder. Last one was Stoke I think.

I think Arsenal are a good team but not quite the finished article, still missing something.

A conspiracy for Chelsea or against Wolves though?

I don't see it either, Johnson walked away kind of rubbing his face as you would do, he didn't signal to the ref or go down, he just walked off. Couldn't see exactly what Barton did but it didn't look good on first viewing and thats all the ref gets. Isn't it time Barton was banned from twitter? Its gotten bloody ridiculous now. Am I right in thinking he was in the stands tweeting his thoughts on the red card after he was sent off? Surely thats wrong.

I just read Liverpools statement and....are they being run by a big petulant child? Its almost as if they didn't read the report and automatically decided its a conspiracy against them and Suarez. They claim the accusation was unsubstantiated but fail to grasp that Suarez admitted it in his own messed up way. Then they tried to claim Evra was some sort of liar because he admitted using aggressive language which is just insane, if he is admitting to it then how does that make him less believable? Then tried to twist the language barrier to suit themselves. I'd ban him for another 8 matches and fine them for bringing the game into disrepute.

Man City are beating them 3-0 with some more refereeing controversy.

Modifié par Druss99, 03 janvier 2012 - 09:50 .

[OBakaSama]

Overall, Liverpool's defence was shaky. Couldn't their legal team had done better? Or was their lawyer so preoccupied with other cases (as was mentioned several times during the report) that he neglected this one?

Well...the Benitez thing comes off the back of what some who didn't like him referred to him as: 'the Spanish waiter'. Haven't been in many restaurants so I wouldn't know, but it was the first thing that popped into my head though. Stoke? Really? I can't see him doing a better job than Pulis to be honest. Benitez strikes me as the sort of manager who needs to spend his way out of trouble.

Arsenal have been missing something for quite a while now. Back when they were winning trophies they had tall, strong, physical players with skill. But since those players left those coming in have been smaller in stature and not as physically commanding; still very skillful and Barcelona have shown you don't need really tall, strong players to win things, which suggests that Arsenal still lack some sort of skill (probably the killing touch of scoring).

Ooo...good question. I'm going to go for....both!

Yeah, so I just find it unbelievable that Barton and Warnock are saying specifically that Johnson conned the ref. Sounds like defamation of character to me or something similar. All this talk on TalkSport about suing the referee and what-have-you if sending a player off means the team lose points. Ridiculous that such a thing even came up. Let's turn it the other way round. Players should be sued for missing "absolute sitters" for not doing their jobs properly, and those who miss penalties should be fined as well because they failed to put the ball on target from six yards out (note that I'm using 'miss' as in not on target rather than having the penalty saved). And the FA have thrown out QPR's appeal against Barton's red card anyway. Fine them for wasting time and resources? I'm sure the FA have increased bans before for fraudulent appeals.

Could well be. They tried to essentially tarnish Evra's reputation. On purpose. (Actually...starting to sound like the politicians in some countries...) Basically Liverpool are saying they're 'sorry'; they are not saying sorry though. They tried to take the language barrier defense and that fell foul of the linguists the FA used; the linguists sat through the video footage as well if I recall correctly.

I heard Liverpool were beaten by a Man City side who didn't even get into second gear. To think that Dalglish was previously claiming that Man City were not that much above them in skill and stuff. Starting to find it difficult to take him seriously now.

[Druss99]

I don't think they really had much defence with the things he was actually caught doing (pinching, being aggressive, etc.) then admitting he said ****** what defence did he have? Claiming it was a friendly comment is ridiculous. If you get the chance have a look at Dalglish's press conference today, it was...nuts. Journalists really pushing the issue and taking him to task for the clubs stance, he seemed to be in some sort of fantasy land when answering...

http://www.football3...-Suarez-But...-

There's the answers he gave but it's much better with the questions too. The claim that there's more facts that they could bring up and mention, more they could say on the issue that would change peoples minds left several questions. Like why suddenly shut up now when he kept saying things before and during the hearing when he wasn't allowed to? Where are these facts on the report and where where they during the hearing? Thats like me saying I should have won the lotto, I bought the winning ticket but I never cashed it in and I'm not showing you it, I'd like my money anyway though. Its an irresponsible and undignified response, the FA probably can still charge him for saying that. They are sticking to the language defence too, claiming Suarez wife calls him ****** and he doesn't get offended so why should Evra? Reminds me of another N word and once again they are failing to grasp context. Claims its a conspiracy to take Suarez out because teams fear him so much too, really? He doesn't bloody score. I would question the FA if they allow them continue to make these statements.

I don't think Benitez was trying to take over Stoke. Its just something he seems to keep doing every once in a while with no explanation. I think his folder might be his list of true facts.

Arsenal seem to be lacking something mentally too, they shoot themselves in the foot almost as much as other teams beat them. Lacking leaders maybe?

I think its a conspiracy trying to get big Mick out of the PL because he is too sexy for it.

I've just seen it again on SSN in slow motion, there's contact with the heads, its not massive and Johnson barely reacts. It's Bartons own fault for getting in that position. Couldn't refs sue Warnock and Barton for slander too? What about verbal abuse? What about fans suing Barton for getting sent off and ruining the game thus wasting their time and money? The idiot needs to be taken off his soap box. I think an extra game ban for fraudulent appeals is mandatory isn't it?

Didn't see most of the match but from what I did see City never really got going and Liverpool were just swatted aside anyway.

Newcastle are 1-0 against United. Newcastle have two upfront, Ferdinand is clearly struggling to deal with Ba, yet Jones still makes runs out of defence leaving him in there against two strikers. Thats not going to end well.

[OBakaSama]

I'm sure what the FA left out are what Liverpool consider to be facts (half thinking these are the sort of facts left over from Benitez....). The club's actions are bordering on...petty. Cultural misunderstandings can partially mitigate the usage, but the examples used suggest they are used with those already in an established friendly relationship. By the linguistic experts' testimony only when trying to strike up a rapport with a stranger is it deemed unoffensive (and even then depending where in South America). All this cultural thing reminds me of drama when I were a lad. Teacher had us use the phrase 'fish and chips'; and express ourselves using only that phrase. Change the tone of how that's said and you'll get different meanings from 'I love you' to 'I'm going to kill you!' That isn't even a cultural thing; it's a normal part of language use where tone can change the meaning.

As good a player as Suarez is I agree that he can't score. And won't be for a month or so either....

Hm...seems like a 'speculative application' on Benitez's part.

I think that's been a criticism in recent years; that they lack leaders on the pitch. Fabregas was a good player but probably lacked leadership on the field. I'm sure someone said that you need 11 captains on the field and Arsenal are lacking in that department.

Perhaps...too sexy for his shirt?

Agreed. I am wondering where that picture of Johnson seems to be falling backwards comes from though; I couldn't see that in the replay of the incident. Onto the question: would think so; yes, they should; should be standard practice (though not just for Barton); and I suspect there is something like that but have yet to see a further ban dished out.

That's the way I heard it. Liverpool with Suarez was struggling; goodness knows if some of the other players don't step up then they'll be even worse shape.

That game was not good for Man Utd. Ba is certainly looking like a decent player. He seemed to do well at a struggling West Ham side, but on current form he does seem to be getting the goals. With the transfer window open will any clubs be trying to prise him away?

Tim Howard scored a goal?!?

[Druss99]

Aye I assume the facts include "He isn't racist in training!". I noticed part of the statement included some bizarre claim that he doesn't make offensive comments all the time so why would he do it this time? He doesn't bite people all the time either but he was still caught doing that. His suspension ends against United at Old Trafford, should be interesting especially if they keep this up.

I thought maybe he is travelling the country telling people his "facts".

So sexy it hurts?

I didn't see Johnson fall at all, just hold his head and walk away which is a perfectly normal reaction.

Newcastle were by far the better team, we never looked up for it at all and got duly punished. Once again...we need midfielders. I don't trust Jones at centreback at all either. Cabaye's goal was an absolute ******. Ba is away for the ACN now I think so might be harder to sign him.

Howards goal was...elementally assisted?

[OBakaSama]

Given that line of thought Liverpool probably would have more success if they had used the 'out of character' argument. That way it would account for that one instance and keep his general character intact. (It's better than the one the ended up using anyway in my mind.) And expecting a very spicy affair that is hotter than any vindaloo to be found in Glasgow (if memory serves).

Do you think he has a soap-box with him as well?

I believe so, but this is Big Mick we're talking about.

I agree, watching the replays there's nothing there whatsoever. Johnson doesn't do anything but just walk away rubbing his nose. But the photo shown on websites does look as if he is falling over (at the very least reeling back), and yet I still don't see where that fits into the chain of events on TV. Granted, if that photo is all that a person sees of the incident then Barton's side of the story might look a bit better.

With Ba away it might also mean Newcastle struggle to score goals without him. Teams that rely on players going to the African Cup of Nations will face a testing time soon.

'Elementally assisted'. I like that. Still tremendous though; I read it was 85 yards. Even factoring in the wind it must have been something. Did it beat Paul Robinson's goal for distance?