4117 réponses à ce sujet

[Druss99]

It works in America too. I think coaches in Europe have always been more tactical than coaches here where tactics often only consist of "hoof it!!" and "get stuck in lads!!" so they can adapt alot better to having players bought for them.

To be honest I'm saving my last fiver to put on Torres to score 2 or more lol. Although I'm not sure it will be a good price. What price on Sunderland turning them over tonight Torres and all? I'd laugh hard if they beat them 3-0 again.

[OBakaSama]

For things which aren't going too well I think the best line would be "I blame the previous administration."



Hodgson will be blamed for a lot of things, just as Benitez was blamed by Hodgson. Just blame the guy who came before you, the fans will understand. Then of course your own mistakes will be less obvious....



That's it, director of football. I thought I wrote something odd. Remember when Tottenham first used that set up and recruited France's manager for the role of 'head coach'? That didn't work well either. Mind you, Comolli does seem to dish out the cash quite a bit. Would have thought these people would have been experienced buyers and push the sellers down on price (or maybe I'm just trying to be sensible).

[OBakaSama]

Torres hat-trick on his debut for Chelsea and against his former club Liverpool? That's just sticking the boot in.

[Druss99]

Sense and football tend to not go too well together. Like hatchets and sex. Comoli strikes me as a bit of an idiot to be honest his signings seem to be random. Also Torres isn't available tonight so the Sunderland game became alot less interesting.

Hodgson was getting blamed for everything even when he was incharge. I've yet to hear a Liverpool fan blame Benitez for anything. Its all "Hodgson did this to our great club, we are a big club and Hodgson has us playing like a bottom half team." Its just a way of hiding from the reality that they are currently a midtable team at best, instead of admitting the team is kinda sh*t at the minute they use Hodgson as the scapegoat. Its like blaming your ex for your manhood not working when it didn't really work with your previous ex or with your current woman either, sooner or later you just have to admit your junk aint working. Then phone Pele and see if he is still selling viagra. This has gone off on a weird tangent...

Modifié par Druss99, 01 février 2011 - 06:24 .

[Druss99]

You don't usually ask permission before quoting me so work away lol.

Torres hattrick is one of those things you'd think that for the drama and all its almost garanteed. But unfortunately it will probably end up a nil-nil draw or something breaking all our hearts or end up 1-0 to Liverpool with a Joe Cole goal deciding it. Oh the drama of it all.

[Darthnemesis2]

I had something I was gonna say, then I read Druss' viagra comment and lol'd to death...



Oh Hodgson. Right. I didn't really have much of a problem with him, but it does seem like the team is playing better with him gone. Maybe its just coincidence, but I don't really believe in coincidence so... yeah. I mean, its not to say he didn't have some good results too, but there were games lost that shouldn't have been, odd personnel choices, benching good players for people who were underperforming, bad signings...

[Druss99]

That all was going on under Benitez too Darth. Hodgson was hired to fix those problems in the short term hes not a young manager and wasn't a longterm option but he was never given the time or chance to do it by the fans, one of the reasons the team is playing better now is because their own fans aren't booing them or chanting for the manager to be sacked, the night Wolves beat them the fans were absolutely shocking. Its a whole circular argument though. As a United fan I can't really say much about fans around 95% of ours are an utter disgrace.

Anyone in the UK happen to catch the Sky Football Special where they put Torres' comments about Chelsea being a bigger team than Liverpool to Phil Thompson? It was priceless. Sunderland 1-0 Chelsea after 4 minutes haha.

[Druss99]

Haha you said that almost as if you heard Phil Thompson's reply it was the old "They aren't a big club like us they don't have the history!" but Nottingham Forest have the history and they aren't a big club anymore. I've met Liverpool fans who are level headed and see sense but theres that vocal majority of complete morons who are convinced they are still the biggest club in England who shout down everyone else. The same vocal majority who declare themselves the best most loyal fans in the world who stand by the club through thick and thin. Then the first sign that theres bad times afoot its protests against the owners, turning on Hodgson almost as soon as he is hired because he isn't a big enough name for them and on Konchesky because he hasn't settled in right away. I'd hate to see what would happen if they did get relegated or something.

Like Autolycus said its not all Liverpool fans its that very vocal majority who shout down everyone else with their self entitled bleating.

[Darthnemesis2]

Druss99 wrote...

That all was going on under Benitez too Darth. Hodgson was hired to fix those problems in the short term hes not a young manager and wasn't a longterm option but he was never given the time or chance to do it by the fans, one of the reasons the team is playing better now is because their own fans aren't booing them or chanting for the manager to be sacked, the night Wolves beat them the fans were absolutely shocking. Its a whole circular argument though. As a United fan I can't really say much about fans around 95% of ours are an utter disgrace.
Anyone in the UK happen to catch the Sky Football Special where they put Torres' comments about Chelsea being a bigger team than Liverpool to Phil Thompson? It was priceless. Sunderland 1-0 Chelsea after 4 minutes haha.

Oh, I agree completely. The fans were never behind him. Even just reading what people were saying on Liverpool's facebook page made me cringe. I can't imagine playing in your own stadium and getting booed by your own fans. Its really sad that people can call themselves supporters of a team and still act like that. Obviously I want to see my team win, but the way to do that is not by hurting your players.

[Druss99]

I think every set of fans find some way to declare themselves the best in the world. Ours are absolutely fantastic at being silent if we aren't winning 3-0 after 10 minutes you won't find a better set of fans in the world.

I don't think any set of fans should ever blindly follow a team theres always room for realism and criticism but the way some Liverpool fans blame everything on Hodgson when the problems are clearly alot deeper than that is just disgusting.

The whole Konchesky thing was disgusting too turning on your own player like that. I hate certain United players like Rooney, Ferdinand and Darron Gibson but when they are on the pitch you get behind them you don't boo and laugh at them or cheer when they get subbed. I mean I absolutely loathe Darron Gibson not only because he is crap but he is from this city too you can just tell by looking at him that if he wasn't a footballer you would find him hanging around Weatherspoons on a Friday afternoon thinking he was the man with his bottle of Becks but I still wouldn't boo the big useless sack of sh*te when he is playing for us. Booing a team is one thing I don't really condone that either but every once in a while I suppose its called for, singling out one player is an entirely different thing doesn't really help anyone. I got booed once by about 500 people I should know haha.

I think your right about the lower leagues Auto. People still feel part of the club and the players are regular people but once you reach the premier league is like a corporation your completely disasociated from and the players are these mega rich people that you see in the papers and on tv they cease to be regular people. People are alot less willing to forgive mistakes in those circumstances.

Modifié par Druss99, 01 février 2011 - 08:50 .

[Druss99]

Booing John Terry is also perfectly acceptable even if you only happen to see him in the street.

UEFA are currently trying to do something about the whole wage thing but it looks to me like theres a fairly obvious way around it. I'd like to see a salary cap come in too, Man City and Chelsea are just ridiculous Chelsea made operating losses of £71m last year. Thats insane and before you count the £70m they spent yesterday.

Bloody hell the playoff places in the championship are tight Norwich are 1-1 now and we are 3-1 up I reckon its going to finish 5-1 with two for the boy Berbatov.

[Druss99]

Its UEFA that are coming up with this plan that inorder to play in UEFA competitions you can only spend as much as you make and owners can only pump £15m a season into the club. Its still half assed and clearly favours the big clubs but atleast its a start. It was on the tv earlier I only briefly saw it.

Would your system affect transfer fees too? Like Chelsea have £50m a season to cover their wages and all transfer dealings?

Is anything sweeter than a 94th minute winner?

[Druss99]

I now see why you insist on implying I'm insane when I'm infact a visionary. Its all part of your elaborate scheme to hide the fact that you sir are madder than Big Mad Brian doing his Big Mad Podcast on Mad Tuesday.

I'm with you in parts of it but in others I'm not loving it. No one is actually owned its their playing registration which just means they can't play for anyone else while another club holds that registration. Very different from slavery. If your system was in place there would be anarchy with people stropping off willy nilly. I believe these cretins need to be tied down to contracts and those contracts need to mean more than they do today. Player power needs to be taken down a few notches.

I'm all for your club spending cap but not quite going as far as the tea ladys etc. that could end up hampering a teams ability to grow without a rich benefactor in the long term. Theres nothing at all wrong with having a rich owner aslong as that owner is restricted to things like improving the stadium, building better youth facilities and helping the club grow off the pitch so they are self sufficient enough to spend the money to grow on the pitch. I say bring in the cap but restrict it to tranfer fees, signing on fees, wages and if they absolutely must still use them agent fees. You can only spend as much as you earn with say a £100m cap per season. Doesn't ruffle too many feathers but helps curb the madness that goes on at teams like Man City, Chelsea and Real Madrid.

Not as well thought out as yours Auto its all just off the top of my head and possibly even more idealistic but to hell with it the revolution starts here.

[OBakaSama]

Hm...a humdinger of a discussion while I've been away. I'm just ramble away.

Let's see....the whole notion of a 'big club' very much depends on what sort of definition of 'big' we're using is. As it is I don't think many people, especially fans, will come to a concensus as to what constitutes a 'big' club.

Viagra...*heh*

There will always be a (hopefully) small section of 'fans' and I use that term loosely, that will spoil things for the vast majority. Human nature I suppose. It's also this section of people who can be the most vocal as well, drowning out the common voice.

Wage caps: always seemingly touted but never implimented. And would such caps include bonus payments? If they don't then that might be a way to flout them. Not a bad idea, I just can see anyone of authority having the necessary courage to push it through.

Bottom line is football clubs are a business, and they need business sensibilities. If wages get even close to overshadowing the income of the club then that club is no longer viable. How clubs can continue for so long in such a environment is strange.

I think Platini mentioned Arsenal as having a good financial model and I would have to agree. Sure they haven't won a trophy for a while, but considering what Wenger has done with the resources, how the team plays, and where they are in the league year upon year is a tremendous achievement. If financial rules really do clamp down hard I think Arsenal are one of the few 'big' clubs that will survive the new regulations unscathed.

Imagine a player on £200k a week and that has to come out of a pot...that would seem to imply a squad that is heavily disproportioned in ability especially for the big clubs. Star striker's out, who do we have left....bugger! The lower placed ones might actually have a more balanced squad as a result.

Booing players: has to be an exceptionally biased or bad thing to have happened for fans to boo their own players. When players get singled out it's usually by the opposition's fans. Best example I can think of is Ronaldo after getting Rooney sent off for the stamp on Carvalho (Rooney would have went anyway really) in the European Cup (?). Ronaldo really got it from the other fans, but, in all fairness to the guy, he got down and played his socks off. (He could put in a transfer request for understandable reasons.)

Then you get those players who are really not nice people. Doesn't help the team sometimes but can see why they get booed.

I am a bit on the fence about the national team though. They do get paid a lot of money, that's probably true of most, but it is still their wages. I don't think they get paid for playing for England as such; hence all the wrangling between club and country about releasing players because the club pays the players' wages and all that.

Then the slavery thing...wonder if that's what Ronaldo and Blatter were on about.

Truthfully, contracts don't seem to mean a great deal (I think Steve Bruce has a fair bit to say about that), but coupled with the whole transfer window system football has...they're sort of needed.

I concur with what Autolycus says about employment law regarding football; and football does have it's own procedures. I'm not saying whether it's good or not, but just observing that football does not follow the same procedures as other employers.

I think the Bosman ruling came about because football ignores certain rights employees in other industries enjoy.Though what was meant to bring some sense and fredom into the game has become something that is twisted around for other purposes.

While I see some sense in abolishing contracts I think that could make matters worse. The thing that would concern me is that a club who nurtures a young player will not be able to get anything for him, especially if there are no transfer fees. A way for small teams to obtain some revenue is suddenly gone.

Food for thought indeed....

[Druss99]

How did we get away from abusing the Scousers? That was the happiest I've been in years...

Football can't have the same employment laws as "normal" work. These aren't people who choose to work 9-5 to make ends meet. These are people getting paid more in a week than most of us earn in a year to do something they would have done for free in their spare time if they hadn't become footballers.

If your secretary leaves you get a new secretary and nothing really changes. If say Fernando Torres leaves you can't just go and replace him with someone like Andy Carroll...oh wait...Ha I can't help myself. But the point is normal employment law covers someone you might only pay minimum wage and can easily be replaced. Football procedures cover multi-million pound investments that more often than not will recquire further multi-million pound investments to replace. Losing your receptionist doesn't usually hamper your ability to win games and possibly cost you millions in winnings.

Having a contract is nowhere near slavery "Oh I have to play for Blackburn instead of West Ham boohoo." hand in a transfer request or retire then if you don't like it, theres millions of people who would do it for not even half the money. Or the Tevez situation "I miss my daughters in Argentina boohoo" so? Thats your problem buddy you chased the cash coming to England you could have went home last summer but you again chose to chase the cash and went to Man City, no one is to blame for that but Tevez himself. Slavery? They have more freedom than any of us, think of the things they get away with that we would go to jail for. The clubs need to be protected from these self important mercenaries, small clubs especially.

Modifié par Druss99, 02 février 2011 - 05:44 .

[OBakaSama]

Mercifully, small clubs can't afford these people.

True, I don't deny what you've said just that there is that discrepancy in the way football works. Although I heard that in American sports they don't have the same sort of contracts as we do in football. Guess they found a different system that works for them.

It's correct that in football these are unique individuals who cannot be replaced as easily as a secretary, or even a shop assistant. The team chemistry can change and not necessarily for the better, though that would depend on how the manager handles things and whether the players themselves are professional in their every day dealings. I recall that Sheringham and Andy (Andrew?) Cole didn't get along but that didn't stop Man Utd getting the first treble.

Mind you, even basic professionalism is somewhat lacking now-a-days. (Starting to sound old now...)

Tevez: seriously, if he truly misses his family (which if genuine is an understandable issue) there are only two options. (1) Bring his family to where he is; it's not as if he can't afford to. Or (2) go back home; either after quitting football or getting a transfer to a club there. Very odd that he does neither....

Liverpool: well, I think we can do more of that after the next silly claim to come from certain Liverpool fans. Or after mentioning ones that we can remember.

Modifié par OBakaSama, 02 février 2011 - 06:16 .