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Have all the Cardinal rules of Magic been broken?


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#1
Guest_SirShreK_*

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Many of us may be unawares, but there exists a not so oft-referenced Codex-entry that describes Cardinal rules of Magic. It professes that Magic is not all powerful and there are limits on what you can wring out of it.

In a nutshell the rules are:

1) No Teleportation
2) No Physical entry into the Fade
3) No Ressuruction. No Immortality.

It is my belief that all these rules have been broken. They may have been broken by different people at different times.. But I think there is a chance that a group of people acting together broke them all AT ONCE. I am sure you guess already that I am referencing the august assemblage of the Tevinter Magisters that broke into the "Golden city" and started the first blight.

Lets see how one can go about forwarding this theory:

I wil start with the "Entering the Fade in physical bodies" part. This requires little explanation. Two-thirds of the Imperium Lyrium and blood of hundreds was the power that somehow propelled the mortal vessels of Tevinter Magisters into the Fade. Blood magic is an ugly, but a powerful ally indeed.

Next we think about Teleportation.

I assume the players of DA are familiar with the term Hyperspace. It is a cliche Deux Ex Machina used to explain inter-stellar travel: It is  a space above our plane of existance that connects any two points in our universe by a shorter distance than the straight line between them. This "short" cut can actually be zero in length, in which case one call call the mode of travel teleportation.

Here is where I think the true genius of the Magister's was revealed. I believe that they realized that the Fade was not unlike Hyperspace and could be used for teleportation. Their target? The sunken city of Arlathan. I would like you to read one of my previous posts to get a better understanding of my conjecturs...

The means to reach there were as follows:
                                                      1. Enter Fade Physically.
                                                      2. Go to Black/Golden city which I postulate is Arlthan's reflection in Fade
                                                      3. Go back to mortal world, arriving at the Sunken Arlathan.

Evidently they manged to do the first and second step successfully... Too successfully one might say.

The Tevinter Magisters had everything... they had power, they had slaves, they had all the wealth of the mortal world and command of Fade demons at their bidding.... What they craved for, to my best of knowledge (Codex Entry: Drake's Fall) was immortality. This, they saw with envy as a gift given to the Elves, but not to them. In their jealosy and their pride, they sought to take it for themselves....And thus they heeded the advice of the Old Gods (Again I would like to draw you attention to one of my previous posts) who, it can be assumed promised them what they sought. For were not the Old Gods immortals? High-dragons die.. as we know.. a natural death.. but Arch-demons don't, a testament of their being beyond the scope of mortal world... They also have the power to summon their soul from its path to the Fade to a mortal vessel (such as a Darkspawn)... And this power they promised to the Magisters...

And in one step that was taken on the fateful day the Magisters sent their living flesh into the fade, broke all the cardinal rules or found the means to do so, was the doom of the world sealed and the Blight arrived on Thedas....


Time for speculation:


This thing casts a new light on Flemeth. She seems to have broken at least one Cardinal rule of Magic. Of Immortality.

Modifié par SirShreK, 19 juillet 2010 - 10:48 .


#2
Stanley Woo

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Let's stop it with the name-calling and insults, please. Thank you.

#3
David Gaider

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I'm not going to comment on the specific instances cited, but I will comment on the prohibitions against magic from a game design perspective.

On one hand we're okay with bending the rules, so long as their original purpose is upheld. The prohibition against teleportation is not intended to prevent a mechanic such as being able to jump from one spot to another-- that can be explained by way of a burst of speed, traveling through the ground, invisibility... there are many explanations that don't require someone to literally disappear and then reappear elsewhere. The point, from a game design standpoint, is to not trivialize distance and obstacles-- which is exactly what teleportation does in other systems.

It also becomes a cop-out for a designer-- something they will deny the player (as in either denying them access to the ability outright or coming up with things like "tachyon interference" to explain why this time their teleportation won't allow them an easy way out) but then proceed to give to every single enemy you encounter. Want an enemy to get away? Teleport. Want to explain how an enemy got ahead of you? Teleport.

And all of this ignores the effect things like teleportation or resurrection have on the setting. If teleportation exists, for instance, why isn't it a service that mages offer? If doing that is very expensive and/or difficult, then why isn't it expensive and/or difficult for everyone who uses it? It's simply a matter of being consistent with the lore.

Now... on the other hand we're also okay with breaking the rules. But not doing so casually. If something were truly going to break the rules of teleportation, dimensional travel or resurrection it should be an event. It should be a game-changer. Something Big Happened. Every time someone talks about things like the cardinal rules of magic it should mentally be appended with "...according to what we know." There are all kinds of mysteries in a fantasy realm like Dragon Age that don't neatly follow the rules, and assumptions are being challenged all the time.

Modifié par David Gaider, 20 juillet 2010 - 02:47 .


#4
David Gaider

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SirShreK wrote...
So breaking is an event EVERYTIME even if it happens in say a "deep secluded forrest, that nobody ever ventured?"

So you're asking whether a hypothetical event could be an exception? I have no idea. At a gut level, I'd say since breaking the rules requires an event of some magnitude that hiding it away would be the cop-out.  "Oh, this huge event occurred but since nobody saw it or knows about it nothing actually changes." But it really depends on the situation.

#5
David Gaider

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Coridan wrote...
I am curious as to why no explanation like this was given to the opening of Dragon Age Origins Awakening if your character ended up making the ultimate sacrifice.  I'm not meaning to complain, I'm just curious why the team working on Awakening thought the best route would be to pretend the whole thing never happened.

I'm not sure I understand. Your character in Awakening was not ressurrected-- by importing the character you ret-conned the event. Not ideal, certainly, but it has nothing to do with the world as we never attempted to make an in-game explanation for what was an out-of-game decision.

#6
David Gaider

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Kaiser Shepard wrote...
God, you had to use the r-word, didn't you? Without going to much into the spoilery section of Origins, even though above posts already spoiled it, do you hereby confirm that one ending is indeed canon?

Err... no? What are you talking about? Canon would imply that one version of events is the same for everyone moving forward. That was not the case in Awakening, so I'm not sure what you're referring to.

Modifié par David Gaider, 20 juillet 2010 - 07:40 .


#7
David Gaider

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soteria wrote...
Some of us would have liked to import the decisions from Origins into Awakening without bringing back the character. As you say, not ideal.

Right. Not ideal, but also not canon. Canon would have simply been us, say, starting you with your Origins character alive as if the Dark Ritual had been performed no matter what... or starting you with your Origins character dead and you create a new character no matter what. The extrapolation here assuming canon exists when it clearly didn't is what's confusing me.

#8
David Gaider

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fanman72 wrote...
Nevertheless, if a person doesn't import a saved game into DA2, will there be predetermined choices made for that player?  Similar to how Allistair is king in Awakenings if you make a new Warden?

There will be a default, yes. That's not the same as canon, however. Canon means it is the same for everyone.