Guest_Puddi III_*
Modifié par filaminstrel, 20 juillet 2010 - 01:29 .
filaminstrel wrote...
I thought part of the charm of Dragon Age was that very little of the lore is supposed to be cut and dried, it's all based on how the people of Thedas currently believe the world works, which is subject to change.
Guest_SirShreK_*
Riona45 wrote...
filaminstrel wrote...
I thought part of the charm of Dragon Age was that very little of the lore is supposed to be cut and dried, it's all based on how the people of Thedas currently believe the world works, which is subject to change.
I agree with you, that's one of the things I like about the setting.
Guest_SirShreK_*
Modifié par David Gaider, 20 juillet 2010 - 02:47 .
Or stopping time then walking to your destination and to everyone but you would say teleport.David Gaider wrote...
I'm not going to comment on the specific instances cited, but I will comment on the prohibitions against magic from a game design perspective.
On one hand we're okay with bending the rules, so long as their original purpose is upheld. The prohibition against teleportation is not intended to prevent a mechanic such as being able to jump from one spot to another-- that can be explained by way of a burst of speed, traveling through the ground, invisibility... there are many explanations that don't require someone to literally disappear and then reappear elsewhere. The point, from a game design standpoint, is to not trivialize distance and obstacles-- which is exactly what teleportation does in other systems.
It also becomes a cop-out for a designer-- something they will deny the player (as in either denying them access to the ability outright or coming up with things like "tachyon interference" to explain why this time their teleportation won't allow them an easy way out) but then proceed to give to every single enemy you encounter. Want an enemy to get away? Teleport. Want to explain how an enemy got ahead of you? Teleport.
And all of this ignores the effect things like teleportation or resurrection have on the setting. If teleportation exists, for instance, why isn't it a service that mages offer? If doing that is very expensive and/or difficult, then why isn't it expensive and/or difficult for everyone who uses it? It's simply a matter of being consistent with the lore.
Now... on the other hand we're also okay with breaking the rules. But not doing so casually. If something were truly going to break the rules of teleportation, dimensional travel or resurrection it should be an event. Something Big happened. Every time someone talks about things like the cardinal rules of magic it should mentally be appended with "...according to what we know." There are all kinds of mysteries in a fantasy realm like Dragon Age that don't neatly follow the rules, and assumptions are being challenged all the time.
Guest_SirShreK_*
David Gaider wrote...
I'm not going to comment on the specific instances cited, but I will comment on the prohibitions against magic from a game design perspective.
On one hand we're okay with bending the rules, so long as their original purpose is upheld. The prohibition against teleportation is not intended to prevent a mechanic such as being able to jump from one spot to another-- that can be explained by way of a burst of speed, traveling through the ground, invisibility... there are many explanations that don't require someone to literally disappear and then reappear elsewhere. The point, from a game design standpoint, is to not trivialize distance and obstacles-- which is exactly what teleportation does in other systems.
It also becomes a cop-out for a designer-- something they will deny the player (as in either denying them access to the ability outright or coming up with things like "tachyon interference" to explain why this time their teleportation won't allow them an easy way out) but then proceed to give to every single enemy you encounter. Want an enemy to get away? Teleport. Want to explain how an enemy got ahead of you? Teleport.
And all of this ignores the effect things like teleportation or resurrection have on the setting. If teleportation exists, for instance, why isn't it a service that mages offer? If doing that is very expensive and/or difficult, then why isn't it expensive and/or difficult for everyone who uses it? It's simply a matter of being consistent with the lore.
Now... on the other hand we're also okay with breaking the rules. But not doing so casually. If something were truly going to break the rules of teleportation, dimensional travel or resurrection it should be an event. Something Big happened. Every time someone talks about things like the cardinal rules of magic it should mentally be appended with "...according to what we know." There are all kinds of mysteries in a fantasy realm like Dragon Age that don't neatly follow the rules, and assumptions are being challenged all the time.
Modifié par SirShreK, 20 juillet 2010 - 02:50 .
Guest_SirShreK_*
Arrtis wrote...
Well maybe only temporarily breaking the rules....Like because oh the work of what is assumed to be the maker and an Old God truly dying you are sent to the fade physically.
Guest_SirShreK_*
Darth_Trethon wrote...
Dragon Age is a different story with different rules that is in no way tied to the way magic or anything else functioned in other games. The end. Go crawl under a rock and cry for the rest of your life. I am amazed that David still has the patience to explain anything when it's rather obvious it won't change anyone's mind no matter how dead 100,000,000,000,000% WRONG they are.
SirShreK wrote...
I think the word Cardinal is an absolute: So you can or you can't break the rule. Temporary would be as good as can.
Modifié par Riona45, 20 juillet 2010 - 05:03 .
SirShreK wrote...
^ Which was sarcasm.
Guest_SirShreK_*
Riona45 wrote...
SirShreK wrote...
I think the word Cardinal is an absolute: So you can or you can't break the rule. Temporary would be as good as can.
And who used the word "cardinal?" An in-setting Circle mage with an agenda?
SirShreK wrote...
I would refer you to David Gaider's post. He states that the writers wanted there to be some solid rules which were EXTREMELY HARD but not impossible to breach. He has given a succint explanation for that. Me giving another would be desultory and superfluous.
Guest_SirShreK_*
Riona45 wrote...
SirShreK wrote...
I would refer you to David Gaider's post. He states that the writers wanted there to be some solid rules which were EXTREMELY HARD but not impossible to breach. He has given a succint explanation for that. Me giving another would be desultory and superfluous.
Oh, well excuse me princess.
Guest_SirShreK_*
iTomes wrote...
well imo two of the rules have a very simple sense: gameplay. teleporting would really give some logical breaks and ressurection...well how do you want to make an "ooohh my god he/she/it is dead *cries in horrible pain* if you always can resurrect someone...- it would be dramatical nonsense.so the remaining rule is "no physically entering the fade"- so id say that THIS rule is much more important then the other two and propably is a center of the game (darkspanw-golden/black city).
So you're asking whether a hypothetical event could be an exception? I have no idea. At a gut level, I'd say since breaking the rules requires an event of some magnitude that hiding it away would be the cop-out. "Oh, this huge event occurred but since nobody saw it or knows about it nothing actually changes." But it really depends on the situation.SirShreK wrote...
So breaking is an event EVERYTIME even if it happens in say a "deep secluded forrest, that nobody ever ventured?"
David Gaider wrote...
So you're asking whether a hypothetical event could be an exception? I have no idea. At a gut level, I'd say since breaking the rules requires an event of some magnitude that hiding it away would be the cop-out. "Oh, this huge event occurred but since nobody saw it or knows about it nothing actually changes." But it really depends on the situation.SirShreK wrote...
So breaking is an event EVERYTIME even if it happens in say a "deep secluded forrest, that nobody ever ventured?"
Guest_SirShreK_*
David Gaider wrote...
So you're asking whether a hypothetical event could be an exception? I have no idea. At a gut level, I'd say since breaking the rules requires an event of some magnitude that hiding it away would be the cop-out. "Oh, this huge event occurred but since nobody saw it or knows about it nothing actually changes." But it really depends on the situation.SirShreK wrote...
So breaking is an event EVERYTIME even if it happens in say a "deep secluded forrest, that nobody ever ventured?"
David Gaider wrote...
Now... on the other hand we're also okay with breaking the rules. But not doing so casually. If something were truly going to break the rules of teleportation, dimensional travel or resurrection it should be an event. It should be a game-changer. Something Big Happened. Every time someone talks about things like the cardinal rules of magic it should mentally be appended with "...according to what we know." There are all kinds of mysteries in a fantasy realm like Dragon Age that don't neatly follow the rules, and assumptions are being challenged all the time.
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