64 réponses à ce sujet

[Valthier]

Dick Delaware wrote...

Valthier wrote...
I know it's not a very solid objective argument - a lot of my wariness to do with VO is due to how I personally interact with my in-game personas. Just like you don't quite feel right pretending, I can feel a bit iffy about having the voice there. It's a preference of emotion, but that doesn't make it any less my preference.

I do have other concerns about voice acting - how well we'll be able to reply to a given situation, how good the voice actors will be, whether or not the male voice actor will have the sort of gruff voice male protagonists tend to get cast with that don't quite sound right when you're trying to play a smarmy mage. But since all we know about the VO is that it's there, all I can give is my gut reaction, that being one of caution rather than anything else.

I don't feel right pretending not out of a personal preference (though of course, that plays a role too), but because I feel that in a good role-playing game, I shouldn't have to pretend. if I have to make up things in my head that don't exist in the game because that game doesn't respond to my choices, I am not playing a good role-playing game. I don't have to pretend my character is a ruthless, power-hungry blood mage in Origins. Why? Because I'm willing to offer up an innocent little kid for my own personal gain because I know I can get away with it scot-free. I'm willing to desecrate a holy healing artifact and aid some raving lunatics to achieve my goals.

Likewise, I don't have to pretend that I'm a dwarf, an elf, etc. because there are numerous cases in the game where NPC's respond to my background. This is the stuff that really makes you feel like you're inhabiting a character - reactivity. Hell, Dragon Age isn't even the best RPG that's done this, there are others that go further too.

A good example is Bloodlines. You are a vampire, and you pick a clan, each with their own particular strengths and weaknesses - some are seductive and charismatic, some are master sneaks, others are great fighters. One particular clan that you can play as, the Malkavians, are all insane. As a result, all of the dialogue options you have in the entire game are those of a lunatic. You can say some really far-out, weird stuff in your dialogue trees, and occasionally some very insightful, profound stuff (insanity and genius go hand in hand, after all).

My point is, I don't have to pretend my character is crazy - the design is such that the game responds to my character by actually making him talk like a crazy person and having numerous NPC's asking me what the hell I'm raving about.

My point is with these examples is that this is what good design in an RPG is, and it's what role-playing is all about.

I think you're exagerrating what I said a little bit - I said I sometimes imagined my character's voice and their intonations, not that I went out of my way to pretend my mage was an animal-loving soul because he sacrificed that one boy to the horned ram goddess he met in the fade.

And I think at this point we seem to have drifted off-topic - I've said that I have a preference for non-VO, but I've accepted that this game has it and am not exactly standing outside my house throwing cats at people that like it. Bickering about what good roleplaying is all about isn't going to do anyone any good.

Narreneth wrote...

Valthier wrote...

Narreneth wrote...

Mages can be gruff too!

I know, I know, but no matter how hard I try everything that my hand ever creates in the DA:O character creator looks a little bit like a girl. To give the poor things one of the deep manly man voice sets would have been hilarious at best.

Give Hawke the default beard!  Problem solved! 

And for some reason halfway through your post I started imagining female Hawke with a deep manly voice set and now I can't stop laughing thinking about the reactions people would have after sculpting what they thought was a beautiful, feminine heroine, only to have her opening line sound like James Earl Jones.

Oh man, now I'm imagining all my Wardens with Wade's moustache. Even the lady ones. Damn you!

Modifié par Valthier, 20 juillet 2010 - 03:21 .

[wwwwowwww]

From everything I have read you will be able to say things with different attitudes, which allows for quite a bit of flexibility upon replay. One time you can be serious, the next flirty or whatever the options may be.

I dunno, I just know I will reserve judgement until I can see what it is or isn't for myself.

[Dick Delaware]

Captain Jazz wrote...
Apologies in advance for any offense taken from the percieved tone of this comment, none is intended.
I've been a bioware gamer since I was knee-high to a goose (A very tall goose. His name is Frederick.) and with every game they have released (excepting MDK 2 & the sonic game - I haven't played either of those) they have completely and catastrophically failed to disappoint me. Sure, things are changing, the new box character is a beardy weirdo with a metal arm and a creepy stare, there's only once race to choose and we're not allowed to make up our own voices for our character anymore (I still say they should let us have a mute button to keep our character silent and sullen, g'wan devs, g'waaaan!) but things have always changed. How would people react if all their games were Baldur's Gate clones?
I fully expect there to be things about Dragon Age 2 that I'm not crazy about, I'm still a little moody about how limiting the class system in Dragon Age is to be honest... but it works and I like that it works the way that it does. I desperately want to play as an Arcane Trickster or some such cross class monstrosity, but like children pulling the wings off flies, the devs won't let me, but it wouldn't fit the world they've made and would ultimately ruin the experience.

Anyway... as fun as rambling around the point is I'll make the point and go hide under a rock for a while.
Bioware: They make damned good games. They make damned good roleplay games and they know how to make you feel like it really is your story.

Bioware, when is the spiritual successor to Shattered Steel coming out? You know you want to.

I think this is an important point.

Your choices should always be consistent with the setting. I love Fallout, but if you were to suddenly allow my character to yell "Kamehameha!!!" and shoot fireballs from his fingertips at super-mutants I would be pissed, because it doesn't jive with a post-apoc setting where magic doesn't exist.

Hell, even though the vampire quest in Fallout 3 was well-designed and had multiple solutions, I still found it annoying because vampires don't make any sense in Fallout!

[youjik33]

I'm glad I'm not the only one disappointed I couldn't hate being a Warden more. Makes me feel a little less crazy, haha.



That said, while I loved how much freedom I had with creating a character in DA:O, it really wasn't 100% under my control. I don't think DA2 is doing anything drastically different there. I was SLIGHTLY annoyed at first because I love female dwarves and would love playing as one again; frankly I doubt DA2 will have the replay value the first game had (I'm on my fifth playthrough, and I make mostly the same decisions every time anyway, but just the fact that I'm a different race and gender can give the game a new flavor.) But I have hope that a good amount of character creation will still be there.

[Dick Delaware]

Valthier wrote...
I think you're exagerrating what I said a little bit - I said I sometimes imagined my character's voice and their intonations, not that I went out of my way to pretend my mage was an animal-loving soul because he sacrificed that one boy to the horned ram goddess he met in the fade.

And I think at this point we seem to have drifted off-topic - I've said that I have a preference for non-VO, but I've accepted that this game has it and am not exactly standing outside my house throwing cats at people that like it. Bickering about what good roleplaying is all about isn't going to do anyone any good.

OK. Sorry if I may have come off as a little harsh.

[Valthier]

Dick Delaware wrote...

Valthier wrote...
I think you're exagerrating what I said a little bit - I said I sometimes imagined my character's voice and their intonations, not that I went out of my way to pretend my mage was an animal-loving soul because he sacrificed that one boy to the horned ram goddess he met in the fade.

And I think at this point we seem to have drifted off-topic - I've said that I have a preference for non-VO, but I've accepted that this game has it and am not exactly standing outside my house throwing cats at people that like it. Bickering about what good roleplaying is all about isn't going to do anyone any good.

OK. Sorry if I may have come off as a little harsh.

It's alright, no offence taken. You do have some valid points, but I know that our main disagreement comes from preference, and nobody ever gets anywhere butting heads over that. (Also, I envy your ability to actually get Bloodlines to work on your computer.)

On another note, throw me in on the reluctant Warden pile. I had a Dalish elf whose grand master plan amounted to "survive Ostagar, run away home, hope Keeper forgets she kicked me out". While I don't mind him ending up feet first on an epic quest, I would have appreciated the option to have him drag his tiny heels a little more.

[In Exile]

Dick Delaware wrote...

The context of the marriage with Anora makes sense. You have no claim to the throne, indeed, neither does Anora but she has been de facto ruler of Ferelden for five years, so she has precedence. Not to mention a father who is revered as a hero. I don't see what the problem is, you become King, but she runs the country. Why would she agree to anything else? You have no leverage over her.

I disagree entirely. Anora needs you to become Queen. She tells you herself: as a Cousland, you are respected at the Landsmeet. Bryce Cousland was greatly respected, and that you are his only living heir at the moment. Arl Howe is discredited. The nobles that you save in the Howe quest can simply be bartered with for political support - this is how Callenhad became King in the first place. She barters with you for support for the throne precisely because you have leverage at the Landsmeet.

Look at your deeds by that point: potentially, hero of Redcliffe. The man who found the Urn of Sacred Ashes. Brother Genitivi can attest to this, and argue that it is Andraste herself that guided your hand. The man who slew a dragon. A Grey Warden who united elves, magi and dwarves. A patriot who stood for the values that define Ferelden and prevent slavery, even if it was against the elves.

The whole point of the Landsmeet is to discredit Loghain. Whatever heroic status he had, if you convince the landsmeet he is a traitor who killed Cailan and allowed the Blight to overrun Ferelden.

I see tremendous political power behind the Cousland. At best Anora can argue that she is capable - but we know the rumours about the young Cousland. We learn in the Origin that many say the younger child should be heir over Fergus.

The most important voice remaining is Arl Eamon. He loves Alistair, and desperately wants him to be King, but he can do nothing without Alistair wanting to be King. So if you sell Alistair on throwing his support behind you, whatever weight his legitimacy carries, even if his request is ignored, you create a three way split. Cousland, Anora and (potentially) Alistair.

Now since the Landsmeet is stupid and apparently can have any decision overthrown by ritual combat you can also just kill everyone who disagrees. But since that option is so spectaculary stupid and should not even be in the, I want to ignore it.

Anora can say that she ruled while Cailan was a moron. But that says nothing beyond her capability, and we are talking politics here; facts are irrelevant. Hell, you can accuse her of being afraid to be barren, and of having conspired with her father to kill Cailan so she could be queen.

if you have the Return to Ostagar DLC, you have letters that show that Cailan would have removed her and married the Orlesian Empress. That provides motive.

I simply do not see the polical force behind Anora, and see an overwhelming argument a charismatic and ambitious Cousland could make.

2) Yes, regardless of your choices you are a Warden, and must stop the Blight. It's unfortunate that you can't play as a more reluctant Grey Warden and have dialogue options that reflect, even if it means the story plays out the same. It's not ideal, but some extra dialogue here would at least spice things up a bit.

No, you misunderstand. I have no problem with stopping the Blight. My problem is being proud or even identifying with a Warden. Let me put it like this: the game acts as if you had your citizenship switched for another, and does not give you the option to absolutely hate it.

However, while that's a legitimate flaw, I don't mind that you are a Grey Warden no matter what in the game. I find it an acceptable sort of railroading, because the game itself is about Grey Wardens. You can't exactly play a game about Grey Wardens ending a Blight and not be a Grey Warden in it, you know? It's sort of like me wanting to play Bloodlines and be a human, or a werewolf.

I disagree. You do not need to be a Grey Warden. You need only have the taint, and these are not the same things. To be Jewish, properly, you need to a circumcision. But someone who is circumcised is not Jewish in virtue of that.

What I am saying is that the the Blight, the means of stopping the Blight and the identity of the Grey Warden are separate things.

I actually loved how Mass Effect handled it. Shepard could desire to be a SPECTRE - he could embody their mission, fight for galactic interests versus human, embody the most noble ideal... but then he could also look at it only as a means of raising the status of humanity, and never identify himself as a Spectre except where it is convenient.

[Narreneth]

Valthier wrote...

Oh man, now I'm imagining all my Wardens with Wade's moustache. Even the lady ones. Damn you!

You're welcome.

[sonlockdon]

  100 CUNNING +  MASTER COERCION  =  FROST.MAGE.MARI

THIS IS WHY IM NOT COMMENTING


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I LOOKED AT AN IMAGE IN THE NEW EXCLUSIVE GAMEINFORMER ON DA2 IT SHOWED WHAT LOOKED LIKE THREE RESPONSES TO WITCH HAWKE WAS GIVEN TO SAY, DURING THE DEMO OF THE INTERVIEW AND THEY POSTED AN IMAGE OF IT IN THE ARTICLE IN THE GAMEINFORMER. IM SURE YOU CAN FIND THIS AT GAMEINFORMER.COM, OR GAMESTOP.COM 

VISUAL QOUTE FROM  GAMEINFORMER PG. 51 COVER STORY

THE THREE RESPONSES:

 1)IM RIGHT BESIDE YOU.
 2)NEITHER CAN THEY.
 3)THEN WE FIGHT. 

THEY HAD CURRENTLY HAD THE THIRD OPTION HIGHLIGHTED AND IT SHOWED AN IMAGE OF A  FIST WITCH IM GUESSING SHOWS THE EMOTION HE WILL SAY IT IN, OBVIOUSLY THIS WAS AN EMOTION OF COURAGE. 

Modifié par sonlockdon, 20 juillet 2010 - 04:16 .

[wwwwowwww]

In Exile wrote...

Dick Delaware wrote...

The context of the marriage with Anora makes sense. You have no claim to the throne, indeed, neither does Anora but she has been de facto ruler of Ferelden for five years, so she has precedence. Not to mention a father who is revered as a hero. I don't see what the problem is, you become King, but she runs the country. Why would she agree to anything else? You have no leverage over her.

I disagree entirely. Anora needs you to become Queen. She tells you herself: as a Cousland, you are respected at the Landsmeet. Bryce Cousland was greatly respected, and that you are his only living heir at the moment. Arl Howe is discredited. The nobles that you save in the Howe quest can simply be bartered with for political support - this is how Callenhad became King in the first place. She barters with you for support for the throne precisely because you have leverage at the Landsmeet.

Look at your deeds by that point: potentially, hero of Redcliffe. The man who found the Urn of Sacred Ashes. Brother Genitivi can attest to this, and argue that it is Andraste herself that guided your hand. The man who slew a dragon. A Grey Warden who united elves, magi and dwarves. A patriot who stood for the values that define Ferelden and prevent slavery, even if it was against the elves.

The whole point of the Landsmeet is to discredit Loghain. Whatever heroic status he had, if you convince the landsmeet he is a traitor who killed Cailan and allowed the Blight to overrun Ferelden.

I see tremendous political power behind the Cousland. At best Anora can argue that she is capable - but we know the rumours about the young Cousland. We learn in the Origin that many say the younger child should be heir over Fergus.

The most important voice remaining is Arl Eamon. He loves Alistair, and desperately wants him to be King, but he can do nothing without Alistair wanting to be King. So if you sell Alistair on throwing his support behind you, whatever weight his legitimacy carries, even if his request is ignored, you create a three way split. Cousland, Anora and (potentially) Alistair.

Now since the Landsmeet is stupid and apparently can have any decision overthrown by ritual combat you can also just kill everyone who disagrees. But since that option is so spectaculary stupid and should not even be in the, I want to ignore it.

Anora can say that she ruled while Cailan was a moron. But that says nothing beyond her capability, and we are talking politics here; facts are irrelevant. Hell, you can accuse her of being afraid to be barren, and of having conspired with her father to kill Cailan so she could be queen.

if you have the Return to Ostagar DLC, you have letters that show that Cailan would have removed her and married the Orlesian Empress. That provides motive.

I simply do not see the polical force behind Anora, and see an overwhelming argument a charismatic and ambitious Cousland could make.

2) Yes, regardless of your choices you are a Warden, and must stop the Blight. It's unfortunate that you can't play as a more reluctant Grey Warden and have dialogue options that reflect, even if it means the story plays out the same. It's not ideal, but some extra dialogue here would at least spice things up a bit.

No, you misunderstand. I have no problem with stopping the Blight. My problem is being proud or even identifying with a Warden. Let me put it like this: the game acts as if you had your citizenship switched for another, and does not give you the option to absolutely hate it.

However, while that's a legitimate flaw, I don't mind that you are a Grey Warden no matter what in the game. I find it an acceptable sort of railroading, because the game itself is about Grey Wardens. You can't exactly play a game about Grey Wardens ending a Blight and not be a Grey Warden in it, you know? It's sort of like me wanting to play Bloodlines and be a human, or a werewolf.

I disagree. You do not need to be a Grey Warden. You need only have the taint, and these are not the same things. To be Jewish, properly, you need to a circumcision. But someone who is circumcised is not Jewish in virtue of that.

What I am saying is that the the Blight, the means of stopping the Blight and the identity of the Grey Warden are separate things.

I actually loved how Mass Effect handled it. Shepard could desire to be a SPECTRE - he could embody their mission, fight for galactic interests versus human, embody the most noble ideal... but then he could also look at it only as a means of raising the status of humanity, and never identify himself as a Spectre except where it is convenient.

I thought there was something at the beginning of the game that said the Couslands were next in line to take the throne. Like the current royal family then the Couslands, which would mean if everyone thought that Cailan was the last it would fall to you anyways as a Cousland. I dunno maybe I'm wrong

[sonlockdon]

glad to see a scroll of quotes blocking my post

[Ahisgewaya]

Mecha Tengu wrote...

MKDAWUSS wrote...

Unless you personally wrote the plot and script, it isn't your story.

yep

we're paying for a video game that someone else wrote and created. Its not yours obviously. If you wanted your own perfect fantasy adventure, go write one yourself instead of complaining that Bioware isnt catering to your specific needs

That's the stupidest load of bull**** I've ever heard! This is a video game people, not a novel. It's about being immersed in a fantasy world and having fun. If Bioware doesn't cater to my "specific needs" as you put it then I won't buy the game. ANd you know what else, if Bioware doesn't cater to YOUR specific needs NEITHER WILL YOU. Unless you're an idiot with a lot more money than sense.

Modifié par Ahisgewaya, 20 juillet 2010 - 04:57 .

[Narreneth]

sonlockdon wrote...

glad to see a scroll of quotes blocking my post

It didn't have anything of value in it anyway.

[In Exile]

wwwwowwww wrote...
I thought there was something at the beginning of the game that said the Couslands were next in line to take the throne. Like the current royal family then the Couslands, which would mean if everyone thought that Cailan was the last it would fall to you anyways as a Cousland. I dunno maybe I'm wrong

I think it was the greatest power beside the throne. Maric made Loghain a Teyrn for what he did against Orlais, but the only the Couslands had been the only Teyrns in Ferelden for generations prior to that.

[Stanley Woo]

Concern over the direction of DA2 is already being discussed in this thread. Please take your discussion there. Thank you.



End of line.