167 réponses à ce sujet

[Inquisitor Recon]

A reason not to trust Legion? He is still a damned geth. At least you know Jack is insane, you never know what Legion could be planning.



He is simply an ally of convenience for me.

[SandTrout]

To be perfectly honest, we trust Legion because the Writers want us to. In the end, BW wants us to believe a certain way about certain events, objects, and characters. They go about this in a human way, playing on human reactions that many instinctively know, but few can articulate as well as good storytellers.



If it were really me in Shepard's shoes, I agree with others that I would not trust him as far as I can throw him. However, the writers have installed enough hints and queues for the player that I know that they intend for Legion to be the AI perspective of the squad, providing purely analytical commentary on events without the emotions that typically bias organic life. The fact that he was surprised about the Heretics wanting to reprogram the True Geth helps that point. Without that scene in the loyalty mission, few players would catch on that deception is a skill that organics evolved to compete with each other, in contrast to the cooperative nature of the Geth 'species'.



We trust Legion for background because we break the 4th wall in regards to his character.

[Massadonious1]

Because he hasn't given you any reason not to trust him? (Unless you're a hardcore Tali-mancer, that is.)



This question is better served asking people why they would trust Loghain in DA:O

[Kijin]

Neo Hex Omega wrote...

Kijin wrote...

Here's a better question: is there a reason not to trust Legion? Legion seems to be far more reasonable than some of your other teammates (Jack comes to mind). More importantly, if his Loyalty Mission is any indication, Legion's primary concern is the survival of the true Geth. Since Legion made it clear that the true Geth and Organic Life can co-exist, Shepard has no reason to feel threatened by Legion.

I believe the intent of my question was misunderstood.

I have no reason to think that Legion itself will betray Shepard. What I want to know is, why do so many take it's word as absolute truth? It is the ONLY geth platform we have EVER communicated with. How do we know Legion isn't a bit off it's rocker, so to speak.

It just seems a bit far fetched for me to take it completely at it's word at this point in the story.

I understood your question. Most people take its word as absolute truth, as we have no reason to suspect it is capable of lying. Legion has not shown itself capable of deception. Not only that, Legion has not done anything suspicious. There is absolutely no reason to suspect that Legion has motives other than the ones it expressed to Shepard. 

Even if Legion is lying, what is it's goal? Presumably, Legion would need to have a reason for lying to you, unless it was just doing it for entertainment (which is highly unlikely, given its logical nature). The game has given us no reason to believe that Legion is simply manipulating the player, so why should the player be suspicious of Legion? Paranoia aside, there does not seem to be a reason to not believe what Legion told you.

[Neo Hex Omega]

Kijin wrote...

Neo Hex Omega wrote...

Kijin wrote...

Here's a better question: is there a reason not to trust Legion? Legion seems to be far more reasonable than some of your other teammates (Jack comes to mind). More importantly, if his Loyalty Mission is any indication, Legion's primary concern is the survival of the true Geth. Since Legion made it clear that the true Geth and Organic Life can co-exist, Shepard has no reason to feel threatened by Legion.

I believe the intent of my question was misunderstood.

I have no reason to think that Legion itself will betray Shepard. What I want to know is, why do so many take it's word as absolute truth? It is the ONLY geth platform we have EVER communicated with. How do we know Legion isn't a bit off it's rocker, so to speak.

It just seems a bit far fetched for me to take it completely at it's word at this point in the story.

I understood your question. Most people take its word as absolute truth, as we have no reason to suspect it is capable of lying. Legion has not shown itself capable of deception. Not only that, Legion has not done anything suspicious. There is absolutely no reason to suspect that Legion has motives other than the ones it expressed to Shepard. 

Even if Legion is lying, what is it's goal? Presumably, Legion would need to have a reason for lying to you, unless it was just doing it for entertainment (which is highly unlikely, given its logical nature). The game has given us no reason to believe that Legion is simply manipulating the player, so why should the player be suspicious of Legion? Paranoia aside, there does not seem to be a reason to not believe what Legion told you.

Let me re phrase the question then.

About believing what Legion says about the geth and heretics is absolutely true... beyond it's word, where is the proof?

Legion doesn't have to be lying to be wrong. I don't suspect Legion of lying, I suspect Legion of being something that it thinks it is not, namely a rogue entity.

Modifié par Neo Hex Omega, 20 juillet 2010 - 06:27 .

[archurban]

I am not sure that Legion is ONLY one true geth. obviously bioware just mada it up anyway. most of all, Geth and Legion are all machine. they don't have any emotional feeling or self decision mechanism unlikely organic. when something was chosen or decided, they follow it whatever they take. since Legion is kind of the first geth creating by Creator (quarian), he is not really an enemy against organic even I can't still fully trust him. but at least, he is clear not to be enemy at all. if so, he already died in somewhere. I think that Legion will play an important role in changing game in ME3 since it's almost all about geth during ME, and even ME2. so easily I can imagine that Bioware will do something special about him for ME3. I can't wait for happening that.

[FuturePasTimeCE]

I don't trust his ass... dude's named legion... that's what sovereign called the reapers. "we are legion/harbinger"...

[Terraneaux]

wiggles89 wrote...

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...

I don't trust his ass... dude's named legion... that's what sovereign called the reapers. "we are legion/harbinger"...

Didn't EDI name Legion?

Yes.  After a bunch of demons.  

[CROAT_56]

wiggles89 wrote...

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...

I don't trust his ass... dude's named legion... that's what sovereign called the reapers. "we are legion/harbinger"...

Didn't EDI name Legion?

yes she did

i take Legion's words at face value because of one thing he said before explaining everything he is not one being he is the geth thus the name legion through ftl he is connected to the collective but also is the most advanced platform the Collective has. It is capable of operating without being connected to the collective something other platforms can not do.

He also mentions that the collective hsa to build a consencus weather to destroy the heratic base or weather to rewrite it

Modifié par CROAT_56, 20 juillet 2010 - 08:25 .

[Caesar914]

Terraneaux wrote...

wiggles89 wrote...

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...

I don't trust his ass... dude's named legion... that's what sovereign called the reapers. "we are legion/harbinger"...

Didn't EDI name Legion?

Yes.  After a bunch of demons.  

Hmm... there's quite a bit of religious symbolism in ME, isn't there? Archangel, Legion, Lazarus. I don't know if there's any more, has anyone else noticed other examples?

But anyways, I like the way the OP thinks. While I still think that the evidence points in the other direction, meaning I do trust Legion, it's a very interesting idea that there seem to be a few factors that could implicate Legion in misleading Shepard, or that it's a little off for Shepard to so quickly accept Legion.

[ME-ParaShep]

I trust Legion because he could've killed me in the Derelict Reaper if he wanted to. The only thing the True Geth dislike are the Quarians. When Tali and Legion had their confrontation in the AI Core, I convinced both of them to stop fighting each other and that the Quarians and the Geth warring against each other would leave both species susceptible to the Reapers. By doing so I believe that I can fully trust Legion because I also helped him rewrite the heretic geth to follow the true geths motives.

It would be a real plot twist if Legion actually was a double agent to convince Shepard to help him rewrite the Geth that are actually not worshippers of the Reapers and that Legion and the "True" Geth are actually followers of the Reapers.. I'd not like that at all.. It would be a total waste of my Paragon actions >.<

But for now, I think it would be best to be on Legions good side and in time get to find out his and the True Geths long term motives. We'll definitely find out what our actions in ME2 would cause in ME3. I HOPE Legion isn't a double agent.. I would be so pissed.

Modifié par ME-ParaShep, 20 juillet 2010 - 09:12 .

[Ousideas]

I trust him because I'm naive.

[Kroesis-]

I always thought that Shepard (Paragon, Neutral or Renegade) did accept him quite quickly to be honest. If I were Shepard I would be quite wary of Legion. Legion didn't give any reason not to trust it, but that doesn't mean that I should trust it straight off the bat, trust is earned.

On the other hand personally I love AI in Sci-Fi, I always take the opportunity to explore their side of things. For example I played The Matrix Online for a good few years and I found it much more fun to go against the popular grain of working for the Humans in Zion deciding to join the Machines just because of the back story between them. The back story to the Quarians and Geth is kind of similar, mind you many of the stories about AI have very common threads.

Plus Legion as a character is pretty cool and I usually have him along side in a mission.

Modifié par Kroesis-, 20 juillet 2010 - 11:04 .

[Costin_Razvan]

I like him and I trust him, but I do not trust the entire Geth Collective just because of him.



As Legion said, the difference between Geth is perspective.

[expanding panic]

ME-ParaShep wrote...

I trust Legion because he could've killed me in the Derelict Reaper if he wanted to. The only thing the True Geth dislike are the Quarians. When Tali and Legion had their confrontation in the AI Core, I convinced both of them to stop fighting each other and that the Quarians and the Geth warring against each other would leave both species susceptible to the Reapers. By doing so I believe that I can fully trust Legion because I also helped him rewrite the heretic geth to follow the true geths motives.

It would be a real plot twist if Legion actually was a double agent to convince Shepard to help him rewrite the Geth that are actually not worshippers of the Reapers and that Legion and the "True" Geth are actually followers of the Reapers.. I'd not like that at all.. It would be a total waste of my Paragon actions >.<

But for now, I think it would be best to be on Legions good side and in time get to find out his and the True Geths long term motives. We'll definitely find out what our actions in ME2 would cause in ME3. I HOPE Legion isn't a double agent.. I would be so pissed.

Perhaps the reason Legion didn't kill you is because he needed you to help him rewrite the Geth. And you said it in your first paragraph he could be a double agent.  I think he if he convinced you to rewrite the Geth that didn't follow the reapers would actually be a really cool plot twist.  Also about your Paragon choice being a waste that's what happens in real life you may have good intentions when you do something but that could turn out to be a bad decision. I think that would make the game more realistic and more fun. I admit I'm not a huge Legion fan I like him alright but if he becomes a traitor I wouldn't mind. 

Modifié par expanding panic, 20 juillet 2010 - 11:09 .

[LorDC]

Well, you can always say that blah-blah-blah everything he says is a lie, he is double agent blah-blah-blah. But is there any actual reason not to trust him? Does he show any signs of betrayal? I he doing anything suspicious? No. Is there any reason for Geth(both true and Heretics) to use such complex schemes?

[wulf3n]

LorDC wrote...

Well, you can always say that blah-blah-blah everything he says is a lie, he is double agent blah-blah-blah. But is there any actual reason not to trust him? Does he show any signs of betrayal? I he doing anything suspicious? No. Is there any reason for Geth(both true and Heretics) to use such complex schemes?

Trust isn't a right, its something you earn. Just because someone hasn't done anything to make them untrustworthy doesn't mean I'm gonna let them baby sit my kids.

[CROAT_56]

wulf3n wrote...

LorDC wrote...

Well, you can always say that blah-blah-blah everything he says is a lie, he is double agent blah-blah-blah. But is there any actual reason not to trust him? Does he show any signs of betrayal? I he doing anything suspicious? No. Is there any reason for Geth(both true and Heretics) to use such complex schemes?

Trust isn't a right, its something you earn. Just because someone hasn't done anything to make them untrustworthy doesn't mean I'm gonna let them baby sit my kids.

I would let Legion take care of my kids come to think of it i would let Joker, Gerrus, Tali, and Mordin babysit my kids in a heart beat. 

I trust my crew they are loyal to me evan Jack and I don't take her off the ship often but i trust her with my sheps life. as i trust my whole team

[CroGamer002]

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...

I don't trust his ass... dude's named legion... that's what sovereign called the reapers. "we are legion/harbinger"...

1st


2nd
You don't trust his ass?

3rd legion is noun for archaic terms for army, a division of from 3000 to 6000 men (including cavalry) in the Roman
army, a permanent organization of the military land forces of a nation or state...

4th EDI gave him name

Modifié par Mesina2, 20 juillet 2010 - 01:50 .

[Kikaimegami]

I trust Legion's ass!

[mosor]

I don't trust him at all.



1. Legion isn't some normal geth. He doesn't need other geth around to remain intelligent. That is suspicious. Maybe the reapers modified him.



2. Geth can lie, just not to each other while linked to the collective. He has provided absolutely no evidence that the heretics are the ones who are really working for sovereign.



3. Too convenient that he knew the location of that derelict reaper. Geth didn't have the freedom to study Klendeggon and retrace the mass accelerator blast. Human scientists did. There is probably a good chance they got that info from sovereign while he was still alive.



4. The term heretic. It's a term usually used by religious people to designate non religious people or other religious people who don't share their exact views. It's not a very secular term. There is no evidence that geth not aligned with sovereign have religion, That term is more likely to be used by a follower of sovereign to designate the geth who did not follow him.



5. Legion may have got us to do the dirty work to rub out geth who opposed the reapers, because he knew the Normandy had stealth systems.



6. Legion could be the "fail safe" and spy for the reapers. Maybe geth can infiltrate after all.

[Chim3ra]

I don't trust him simply because Tali doesn't like him. haha

[Kijin]

Neo Hex Omega wrote...

Kijin wrote...

Neo Hex Omega wrote...

Kijin wrote...

Here's a better question: is there a reason not to trust Legion? Legion seems to be far more reasonable than some of your other teammates (Jack comes to mind). More importantly, if his Loyalty Mission is any indication, Legion's primary concern is the survival of the true Geth. Since Legion made it clear that the true Geth and Organic Life can co-exist, Shepard has no reason to feel threatened by Legion.

I believe the intent of my question was misunderstood.

I have no reason to think that Legion itself will betray Shepard. What I want to know is, why do so many take it's word as absolute truth? It is the ONLY geth platform we have EVER communicated with. How do we know Legion isn't a bit off it's rocker, so to speak.

It just seems a bit far fetched for me to take it completely at it's word at this point in the story.

I understood your question. Most people take its word as absolute truth, as we have no reason to suspect it is capable of lying. Legion has not shown itself capable of deception. Not only that, Legion has not done anything suspicious. There is absolutely no reason to suspect that Legion has motives other than the ones it expressed to Shepard. 

Even if Legion is lying, what is it's goal? Presumably, Legion would need to have a reason for lying to you, unless it was just doing it for entertainment (which is highly unlikely, given its logical nature). The game has given us no reason to believe that Legion is simply manipulating the player, so why should the player be suspicious of Legion? Paranoia aside, there does not seem to be a reason to not believe what Legion told you.

Let me re phrase the question then.

About believing what Legion says about the geth and heretics is absolutely true... beyond it's word, where is the proof?

Legion doesn't have to be lying to be wrong. I don't suspect Legion of lying, I suspect Legion of being something that it thinks it is not, namely a rogue entity.

The proof is in its actions. Listen to Legion's dialogue during his Loyalty Mission; he is divided about whether the Heretics should be rewritten or killed entirely. His primary concern is that, if the Heretics were rewritten, they could re-indoctrinate themselves and contaminate all Geth. His willingness to kill the Heretics to protect his other brethren indicates that Legion truly believes the things he is saying. Quite frankly, whether or not the other Geth actually exists is meaningless. 

Besides, it is painfully obvious that Legion is right. He communicates with the other Geth through wireless communication. Legion does not need to be close to other Geth to interact with them. Legion never complains of his inability to communicate with the other Geth, so presumably they're receiving his transmissions and responding.

If I may go back to your original question briefly; what I have said may not be enough to trust Legion, but aside from Tali and Garrus, the game gives you no real reason to trust any of your companions, other than the fact that there is no hostility between Shepard and them. Miranda or Samara is just as trustworthy as Legion.

You also asked for proof of Legion's claims. Legion has no proof, other than his words. Keep in mind that for most of Mass Effect 2, there is no 'proof' that the Reapers were even behind the Collector attacks. All you had to go on was The Illusive Man's word, which isn't saying much, as the game wanted you to at least be suspicious of him. Proof in Mass Effect 2 was not forthcoming. So, while there may be evidence to suggest that Legion should be trusted, there is no proof. But as I have said in earlier posts, I do not think there is a reason not to trust him, and that works fine for me.