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[iTomes]

"kirkwall is very vlose to the shoreline from ferelden.... I would guess that Hawke and Co would take a boat... Denerim is harbour you know ....



Plus there are the Red Oars and a beautiful Pirate captain by the name of Isabela...."



oh if we met isabela again than this would be AWESOME!. AWESOME i say!! but besides that. why in the name of all evil spirits around would they go only near kirkwall. the only thing sounding reasonable is that they get captured...

[iTomes]

"NOT at Kirkwall... We can meet her at Sea or at denerim itself"



i meant: if they were taking the boat of whoever (please let it be isabela) then why would they end up at kirkwall....theres plenty of marches going around, why dont they just settle somewhere were mages are free??

[RogueWriter3201]

Rather insightful observation, OP. Even sleep deprived, it none the less had me pondering a great many things concerning Mage Hawke; which, FYI, is something I'm looking forward to. One of few things which irked me about the Origin's approach in the first Game was the fact that I could not be a Mage with-in the Origin that had the best back-story and was the most *canon* of all the others, the Cousland Origin. You had to choose between being either a Warrior or Rogue if you wanted to follow that particular plot-line. FUBAR I say.

In Redcliff, the Warden would come to learn that Lady Isolde hired an Apostate, or as it's refered to in Awakenings an "Apple-state" for whatever reason (giggle), to train her son Connor in secret for fear he would be taken by the Circle and the Chantry, there by loosing his family and being severed from his inheritence and titles. What struck me after your post, also being something I had thought of once before during a previous run through of DAO, was that though Isolde kind of screws the pooch with regards to who she picks and what it all leads to, she could not have been the first Noble, decent Human Being or otherwise, to have taken this Route to preserve their Children/Legacy. Simply because Bryce Cousland was the epitome of what a *good* Noble should be doesn't mean he and Elenor would have been adverse to choosing a course of action similar to Isolde's in regards to their youngest child. It would have seemed not only believable to me, but would have fit with-in the established laws of Dragon Age's game-world had the Cousland's chosen to have their Mage-child trained in secret; perhaps by a Hedge-Mage/Witch Bryce encountered and faught alongside during the War with Orlais; a person who had proven to be of great moral character despite never having adhered to the laws of the Chantry or Circle. 

Sadly, the Origins decided to be somewhat...restricting. I daresay more so than what we have in DA2. Yes, you can only be a Human PC in DA2, but at least it's a core Origin that isn't restricted by class. I can be a Human, Pure of Heart (as much as the story will permit) and be a Mage outside the Circle. To accomodate this I think there is a good possility that both Hawke and Bethany might have been instructed by a Hedge Mage/Witch. Who this man/woman is, if that is indeed how our sibling pair were trained, is a mystery, as is whether or not BioWare picked a backstory similar to this for those who choose Mage as Hawke's class. At this juncture, it's really all up in the air. Regardless, I'm just looking forward to seeing how it all plays out; however, I am hoping to discover that Hawke is not a Mage bound by the Circle or Chantry. Though I do not dislike either institution (one attempts to keep Mages from going all Abomination-y while the other feeds and cares for the sick and down-trodden) it would be nice for Hawke to stand-apart, as well as offer a deeper narrative for the Mage hero. Just my two cents.    

[Lady_Scarlett]

Fangirl17 wrote...

SirShreK wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

What side I'll pick will entirely depend on how each faction is depicted, which means that if things are how they seem to be based on current info, what with the Templars oppressing the townspeople, I will more likely than not side with the mages/townspeople.

Likewise, I sided with the Templars in Broken Circle because most mages actually proved how dangerous they could be, apostate Morrigan being the ironical exception.

THIS.

I chose to  support the Circle of Mages because I usually play as the Lawful Good character and bought into the argument by Wynne about saving the innocents... (Which ended up being a lone guy, Irving, anyway).... So I hope we will be not be FORCED to be apostates, but will have the choice to become one if we do not agree with the Cahntry/Tower/Templar view.

 Just because your an apostate and prefer your freedom you cant be a "Lawful Good" character?

Uh, in technicality, no.

LG characters follow every law to the letter, and being a apostate would be breaking the law. Think of little Ms. (phsycopathic) Kelli. When you intially meet her in the tower (if you're a mage), she believes like the templars: magic needs to be controlled and / or (probably more preferred) destroyed. When you meet her during the Circle Tower quest, she believes templars should come and wipe out the mages in the tower (which with abomnations everywhere would be lawful). A apostate could still be good, yes, but not lawful (being outside of the Circle unless you've been given permission would be law-breaking). They'd be more Neutral Good or Chaotic Good.

And yes, I am hoping for Hawke to be apostate. Lady Hawke will shoot lightning at whoever she darn well pleases.

[t3hherooftime]

SirShreK wrote...

iTomes wrote...

"NOT at Kirkwall... We can meet her at Sea or at denerim itself"

i meant: if they were taking the boat of whoever (please let it be isabela) then why would they end up at kirkwall....theres plenty of marches going around, why dont they just settle somewhere were mages are free??

That I think will be a plot point... Storm of Zehir?

Maybe Hawke and Bethany are sent to Kirkwall by Flemeth. She would probably have some sort of ulterior motive of doing so.

[iTomes]

"That I think will be a plot point... Storm of Zehir?"



well that'd be what i call bad luck...or....destiny (dum dum dummmmmmmm)

[Riona45]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Which leaves the possibility of Hawke belonging to another Circle, or going rogue.  All we know is that Hawke was in Lothering prior to its destruction during the previous Blight.  Presumably s/he eventually ended up in or around Kirkwall.  We have no idea of the amount of time in between the two, so it's plausible that Hawke and Bethany were taken into a different Circle of Magi.  Though the question then remains--why would ANY Circle, other than the Tevinter one, let their mages out of the tower?

We don't know that mage-Hawke and Bethaney were ever in any tower.  Some mages actually are able to hide their abilities to the extent where they can live as apostates.

Personally, I wanna be an apostate and tear the templar establishment in Kirkwall to the ground.  But that's just me :innocent:

Having played a Circle mage already, I'm hoping that this time mage-Hawke will be a pure apostate, just to see things from a different perspective.

[Riona45]

rabidhanar wrote...

May the Templars fear Hawke the Apostate, destroyer of the Circle of Magi!

I also would enjoy playing as an apostate, especially seeing in how an apostate's views on matters could be screwed. An apostate (think Morrigan), first off does not know every dictation/curtisy given toward people. I would love for my character to be unique and not understand the political drive of people. (who you have as a friend, as an example can have a political reasoning)

Morrigan didn't have poor social skills because she was an apostate, it was really because she was raised in a swamp and rarely interacted with anyone other than Flemeth.

You can't assume all apostates are like Morrigan, because Morrigan is a strange person in so many other ways.

Modifié par Riona45, 20 juillet 2010 - 04:55 .

[Riona45]

glenboy24 wrote...
 One of few things which irked me about the Origin's approach in the first Game was the fact that I could not be a Mage with-in the Origin that had the best back-story and was the most *canon* of all the others, the Cousland Origin.    

The human noble origin was "the most canon?"  What does that mean, and where was that stated by the devs?

[Sable Rhapsody]

Riona45 wrote...

Morrigan didn't have poor social skills because she was an apostate, it was really because she was raised in a swamp and rarely interacted with anyone other than Flemeth.

You can't assume all apostates are like Morrigan, because Morrigan is a strange person in so many other ways.

Anders is apostate, and apart from a strange over-fondness for cats, is pretty normal and chipper about the whole thing.  Morrigan is Morrigan because of Flemeth's upbringing, not because she's an apostate.  

Riona45 wrote...

glenboy24 wrote...
 One of few things which irked me about the Origin's approach in the first Game was the fact that I could not be a Mage with-in the Origin that had the best back-story and was the most *canon* of all the others, the Cousland Origin.    

The human noble origin was "the most canon?"  What does that mean, and where was that stated by the devs?

I think--and please correct me if I'm wrong--that glenboy is referring to the integration of the origin and its back-story into the main plot of DA:O rather than the degree to which it is or is not canon.  The Cousland heir is the only one who can become King/Queen, the only one with contact with Howe, and has a vested interest in the Landsmeet apart from being a Warden.  Though personally, I liked the mage origin best for the dramaz in Redcliffe when OOPS IT'S YOUR FAULT KINDA and in the Broken Circle quest.

As for the whole pro-Chantry, anti-Chantry thing, I was quite prepared to despise the Chantry after the mage origin.  Then I got to Lothering and they were surprisingly decent.  Even during the Broken Circle quest, I could see where Greagoir and the templars were coming from, given the amount of devastation to the Circle caused by mages fallen to abhomination.  So in DA:O, I eventually developed the opinion that 70% of the templars were generally decent, if a tad overzealous, and really did want to help people in their own way.  We'll see how they behave in DA2.

[RogueWriter3201]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

*snip*

*snip*

Riona45 wrote...

glenboy24 wrote...
 One of few things which irked me about the Origin's approach in the first Game was the fact that I could not be a Mage with-in the Origin that had the best back-story and was the most *canon* of all the others, the Cousland Origin.    

The human noble origin was "the most canon?"  What does that mean, and where was that stated by the devs?

I think--and please correct me if I'm wrong--that glenboy is referring to the integration of the origin and its back-story into the main plot of DA:O rather than the degree to which it is or is not canon.  The Cousland heir is the only one who can become King/Queen, the only one with contact with Howe, and has a vested interest in the Landsmeet apart from being a Warden.  Though personally, I liked the mage origin best for the dramaz in Redcliffe when OOPS IT'S YOUR FAULT KINDA and in the Broken Circle quest.

Thank you for clarifying that, Sable. In my introspective state I might have forgotten to flush out the Term use. Yes, by *Canon* I meant the Origin that most intergrated itself with several crucial plot points and characters. As to whether or not the Devs mentioned anything concrete? Well, that wouldn't be "fair" to those who feel the Dwarven of Elven Origins are canon for them, so it's something best left unsaid. Case in point, Knights of the Old Republic. On the TOR forums one of the first topics confirmed (for the second time) by the Devs for that title indicated that a Male Revan/Light Side was the Canon character and story. Fans threw a bit of a **** fit, but that's just how it is.

As to DAO? Well, one need only look at how interconnected the Cousland story is, and the fact that all promotional elements for the game featured the Male Cousland (i.e. Sacred Ashes) and it kind of points in the direction of the "Canon" observation. Which, from my original post, is exactly my point. I loved being a Mage, it's the ideal class for me; however, it really stunk that the most plot pivitol Origin was blocked from me because I didn't want to be a Sword or Knife swinger. Thankfully, they're being far more accomodating with DA2. The only question is whether Hawke is a young man/woman on thier way to the Circle with Bethany in tow just before Lothering falls, or are they Apostates? God, the wait is killer.... 

[Riona45]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Anders is apostate, and apart from a strange over-fondness for cats, is pretty normal and chipper about the whole thing.  Morrigan is Morrigan because of Flemeth's upbringing, not because she's an apostate.  

I didn't think Anders's love for cats was strange, it was cute.

[Biserthebomb]

I would like to kill the Chantry and the Templars and all the mages watching and everyone else who I meet in the game including the merchants whom I should be able to take items from after a good quartering.

[Malanek]

C9316 wrote...

To counter the chantry hate in this thread I'll be playing as a mage who will side with the chantry. If anything I wish for the pro-chantry people we can maybe loosen their control a little,maybe make this circle similar to the ferelden circle where the mages have some freedoms; but still keep tabs on them for the sake of innocents.

Just out of interest, if they sentenced your sister to death would that change your stance?

[Sable Rhapsody]

Malanek999 wrote...

C9316 wrote...

To counter the chantry hate in this thread I'll be playing as a mage who will side with the chantry. If anything I wish for the pro-chantry people we can maybe loosen their control a little,maybe make this circle similar to the ferelden circle where the mages have some freedoms; but still keep tabs on them for the sake of innocents.

Just out of interest, if they sentenced your sister to death would that change your stance?

I think being Tranquil falls under the whole Fate Worse Than Death trope, to be honest.  A great deal of your essential humanity is stripped from you in that case.  Part of why I loved Duncan so much was that he saved my mage PC from what would have been a horrific punishment at the hands of the Templars, if Greagior's fury was any gauge of the severity of her mistake.

Also, from what we hear of the mage political factions in DA:O, the pro-Chantry Loyalists are not reformers.  They're basically the Chantry's butt-monkeys.  The Equitarians are more along the lines of cautious reformers, while the Libertarians are openly for increased freedom from the Chantry.

[iTomes]

C9316 wrote...

To counter the chantry hate in this thread I'll be playing as a mage who will side with the chantry. If anything I wish for the pro-chantry people we can maybe loosen their control a little,maybe make this circle similar to the ferelden circle where the mages have some freedoms; but still keep tabs on them for the sake of innocents.

uhhhmm okay locking people for theyre WHOLE lives into towers because they were BORN with something.. i mean the first years ok but after a few years it just gets stupid because they arent THAT dangerous anymore (sure they CAN side with demons, but a usual human also can burn down a house full of innocents i dont see the difference). besides, it really remembers me of the treatment of the jews in the third reich (YES i know that mages don't get killed but they get still locked in because of something they were BORN with). and, C9316 for someone who claims to be so "contra-racist-contra-****-yo" like you (i'd like to remember you on that thread "will we see blacks or asians in DA2" or whatever it was called) you actually behave pretty...strange... or just stupid (what is more likely i guess xD)

[iTomes]

besides, we propably should just ignore C9316 writes.... if im recalling it right he declared people who said that blacks werent seen a lot in medieval europe "racist bastards" and told them to f*ck off or things like that with really "nice" pictures...

[Sable Rhapsody]

OK, ignoring the Godwin's Law pull...



There IS a quantitative difference in the amount of destruction that one mage can produce with just his/her own initiative and desire for violence, and the amount of destruction your typical warrior can produce with a sharp piece of metal. Mages simply have far more destructive potential. There's a reason why with the armies, you get twelve mages and about 50 of everyone else.



Add that to the fact that weak-minded/poorly trained mages are immensely dangerous to themselves and others. Even the best mages can be compelled into abhomination against their wills, a la the Broken Circle quest. While I don't agree with the methods, I can understand the need for some oversight when it comes to mages, if only to make sure they're properly educated and trained.

[iTomes]

"Correct. Even following a Lawful character i find it disgusting to see Mages locked up like that.... There has to be another way.... Morrigan, I would like to point out, if were in the Circle, would be an Isolationist. That's what she seems to be anyway."



i also think that another ways needed in this point... i mean sure magic is dangerous if uncontroled so taking young children makes sense, but after some time you can controll it. if you ally with demons and run amok youre surely dangerous, but its the human thats dangerous then, not the magic. besides, the TI wasn't only "mages walking free running amok, thats propably just a main issue since mages are hunted and stuff... besides, that whole magic thing really tastes like third reich, and because i hate ****s.... DEATH to all TEMPLARS!!!!!!