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[filetemo]

while I agree lockpicking is a pain in the butt if you donm't use rogues, I think they should keep the ability only for them, always has been a skill for rogues, opening up for everybody feels cheap.



That's a matter of good design I guess.Bioware must do several things in my opinion.



First is keep lockpicking a rogues only ability

second is to "force" us to use rogues by:

making a rogue who is an interesting character dialogue-wise

making him enough differentiated class-wise so, as they say, it doesn't feel like just " a warrior with less armor"

include more rogues so we can choose, in DAO we had 6 warriors, two mages and two rogues.

and also, level the game enough so it's equally profitable to bring always a rogue than it is to bring two mages, unless in DAO where having two or three mages in your party was like having an "I win" button.

[soteria]

Actually, that's already the case. You don't have to spend points on Deft Hands to unlock chests, you just need a high enough modified cunning. All Deft Hands does is give a large bonus (10 per level) to your modified cunning. You can see this with Daveth; he can unlock a couple of chests at Ostagar even though he doesn't have any levels in Deft Hands.

There's a difference. Rogues generally already have to spread their stats out more than warriors (str for armor, dex for weapons, cun for damage), and with the rare exception of the archer, warrior builds generally call for high strength. Not every rogue build calls for high cunning. Dex builds want 30 cunning, but that's only so they can handle locks.

[somebody99000]

There's a difference. Rogues generally already have to spread their stats out more than warriors (str for armor, dex for weapons, cun for damage), and with the rare exception of the archer, warrior builds generally call for high strength. Not every rogue build calls for high cunning. Dex builds want 30 cunning, but that's only so they can handle locks.

Well yeah, but the point is that the change discussed (not requiring Deft Hands, instead using just cunning) is how it already is in the game. Now, there are certainly things wrong with how this is set up in the game (I'm planning out a rogue build for my first 1.04 game, and trying to figure out how to fit all the talents and skills I want in, even assuming I have two rogues instead of one), but it's important to get the facts straight so you can have meaningful discussion.

[soteria]

I'm aware of the facts. The fact is that most rogues are going to need to spend talent points on mechanical exptertise because even if you plan to reach 70 cunning by the end of the game, you still need a point or two to open the locks early on.

I know what I said was misleading, but I was thinking more of the design of the locks than the design of the skill--hence the comment on locks/traps being more accessible. Even with max investment in cunning (which is extremely bad without Lethality), is it possible to open everything in Ostagar with no points in deft hands? I doubt it.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I like lockpicking minigames. Wizardry 8's were pretty fun.

[somebody99000]

soteria wrote...

I'm aware of the facts. The fact is that most rogues are going to need to spend talent points on mechanical exptertise because even if you plan to reach 70 cunning by the end of the game, you still need a point or two to open the locks early on.
I know what I said was misleading, but I was thinking more of the design of the locks than the design of the skill--hence the comment on locks/traps being more accessible. Even with max investment in cunning (which is extremely bad without Lethality), is it possible to open everything in Ostagar with no points in deft hands? I doubt it.

I think except for one chest. It's worse once you get out in the wilds, of course (you can't open anything there without at least 20 cunning). If you have 20 cunning, you can open everything in the wilds and everything in Lothering (well, I *think* everything in Lothering). So rush CUN early game then slack off a bit until you have decent combat stats/Lethality? But you're right that at first it makes more sense to invest in combat abilities...

[In Exile]

soteria wrote...
There's a difference. Rogues generally already have to spread their stats out more than warriors (str for armor, dex for weapons, cun for damage), and with the rare exception of the archer, warrior builds generally call for high strength. Not every rogue build calls for high cunning. Dex builds want 30 cunning, but that's only so they can handle locks.

If you are going for a dagger/dagger cun build you only need one point in deft hands to open every chest in the game by around level 18, depending on how you level. I am speaking with my powergamer hat on here, though.

[Sylvius the Mad]

soteria wrote...

I'm aware of the facts. The fact is that most rogues are going to need to spend talent points on mechanical exptertise because even if you plan to reach 70 cunning by the end of the game, you still need a point or two to open the locks early on.

A single point in the very early going, perhaps, but once you leave Ostagar you can return to almost all the areas in the game and open the chests later.

This is how I avoid bringing a Rogue with me without missing out on the XP.  I just come back for it later.