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Neverwinter Nights 3


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#1
Game Toxication

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 Well I found one thing more certain as a Neverwinter and D&D player... The races still do not exceed or meet the amount featured in the books, even the Fourth Edition carries more interesting and good to the bad races and classes... If or when the Neverwinter Nights 3 appears on EB's shelf I'll buy it, but I'm hoping I won't see five races and ten classes. My opinion is that even though Neverwinter Nights is one of the most interesting and LAN party based game I've followed for years, it's starting to lose it's touch, and it's losing it's popularity. Dragon Age Origins currently is more frequently played than Neverwinter, one of the reasons I even play Dragon Age is mostly because of the fact I'm a power gamer, once I get started I cannot stop. Also Aurora Toolset completely dominated Obsidians hands down people.

Anyway at first glance this can be quite a bit to fathom, however I'm trying to get a point across... well a few actually:
1. Races and classes must meet at least 4th edition's current amount.
2. This isn't the Dragon Age Race and class set people, and hopefully DA will have more soon as well.
3. Toolset cannot be complex, I've used GECK for Fallout 3, ESCK for Oblivion and quite a bit more, however I'd like NWN 3 to meet this set of Toolset elements.

Finally I beg one question from anyone reading this post...

Out of Neverwinter, Dragon Age and Dungeons and Dragons... What is your favorite race and class mix.

Thank You for your time. :bandit:

#2
dethia

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Well you should not set yourself as the standard in terms of the toolset being difficult. I found it very easy to use, it took me about 30 minutes to read the various guides available online ;/.



My favorite race/class combo is a halfling - rogue.

#3
Shallina

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NWN2 is actually the best toolset of the 3 related game that are NWN2, DAO and NWN.

As for "difficult" if you want something good that can do powerfull things it will nevers be as simple as just pressing a single button. Creating a game is work, a module, a story is work. It will nevers be done without any effort.

NWN1 toolset is very limited, you quickly meet the limit as soon you want to do something fancy.
DAO toolset : No night/ day cycle on that game, very few creature, Tiny area, and other things like that, like no MP at all wich is the core of any online community and will prevent that toolset to get a real big interest from poeple. Also the big lack of support into the DAO toolset is an issue.

Unlike what you think Obsidian did a fine job and MOTB is better than DAO while beeing older.

As for NWN3 you'll won't have any news of it until the lawsuit about D&D and Atari will be settled.

What NWN2 lack next to DAO is good animation. But there is someone working on it.

Modifié par Shallina, 20 juillet 2010 - 02:00 .


#4
kamalpoe

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The community stepped in and there's now 40-50 races and at least that many classes (plus the fact you can have up to 4 classes at once).

Amongst other race and class addition packs, the "Races of Faerun" hak added a bunch of races. and Kaedrin's pack added a ton of classes. If you want, you can play as a worg wolf, a lizardman, an ogre, an illithid, bladeling, cambion, goblin, yuan-ti (the actual snake ones).

#5
dunniteowl

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First off, it's always a good idea to emphasize the fact that you are stating your point of view as your point of view, not some statement that sounds like some unalterable fact. It comes across as rather heavy handed. That's a complex way of saying: Recognize you're only expressing your opinion. So make that clear.

It didn't really sound to me like you were all that interested in NWN3 as anything other than a Bioware game. Got news for yas. I seriously DOUBT that Bioware will want to touch another D&D IP with anything less than a Level 4 Biohazard suit and an Extendable 11' pole. So asking Bioware to do it, based on the NWN franchise is probably -- well -- futile.

I honestly don't think we'll EVER see something actually named Never Winter Nights 3, though it's as good a name as any to describe the spiritual successor to what NWN and NWN2 are: Moddable cRPGs with a Toolset, with a D&D license. It may be that some sort of system like this gets a new lease on life from WotC/Hasbro after the lawsuit, but so far, since December's initial salvo and a small flurry of Motions in January, no information as to the progress of the lawsuit can be found. If this lawsuit were settled, this afternoon, I think we'd see something start to move in about 6 months, irrespective of who retains that license to produce D&D computer games.

That's being pretty optimistic and hoping that both parties have a plan B to start capitalizing on the license right away post litigation. And, to be fair, the longer it drags on, the less likely any prospective hopeful developer would still be available to take on said game. You gotta keep your staff working or it's layoff time.

So let's say it worked like that. Settled today, 6 months later we get news Developer X now is beginning production on a new D&D game. That would be, really optimistically speaking, a projected release date for this game by 2014 or so. Maybe even later. It depends on what they're going to do with it.

If D&D 4.5 or 5.0 isn't already out by then, it will definitely be a 4th edition rules game. Actually as long as a new edition doesn't come out by year one of development, I'd bet it would be 4th ed. If something new comes out before the 1st year of development and they haven't hardcoded all the rules by then, it would be the next edition.

And I'd counsel patience. It's going to take a while.

As for your statements on NWN as well as your near total dismissal of NWN2 -- you do know what forums you're on, right? And, incidentally, when was the last time you played either? You really should make sure you know what you're saying when you make such declarative statements. NWN is 8 years old and is still being heavily played, modified, upgraded (now by the Community) and the quality improvments should make you sit up and take notice.

As for NWN2? It's got a little ways further to go in MP/PW play before it can come close to claiming a superior experience all the way 'round in MP/PW, but make no mistake, it's no slouch, either. And as far as SP modules and variety go? Both NWN and NWN2 will always have the advantage (at least into the forseeable future -- so sayeth my Magic 8 Ball) over DA:O. Maybe when DA:O 2 comes out, things will change.

It's not that DA:O doesn't have the power to make great modules. It's that it has so much power that it requires specialized knowledge to use the toolset's complete functionality that it really does mean solo modders are going to really, REALLY have a tough time of it. I also haven't seen any indication lately that the offerings from the modding portion of the DA:O Community are going to get the same level of support that the NWN and NWN2 modders give. They keep coming back and updating their modules, patching, fixing, adding to them. The DA:O Community needs to have that lesson in quality driven into their collective skulls.

A superior (as it's argued) toolset does not a superior product make. A less than superior toolset does not a low quality module make. It's not the tools, it's the crafters using them. A superior crafter will always turn out superior products, even with inferior tools to thier craft. A mediocre crafter will always only be able to produce mediocre products, no matter the quality of their tools. So, while DA:O really does offer a heavy dose of power, the ability to use all those tools pretty much shuts out the less than technically proficient -- unless they dedicate themselves to that toolset and hook up with others who are likewise dedicated.

These are, of course, my opinions and in the case of quality output and support of modules by their authors in DA:O, I would love to be proven ultimately wrong about that. In the meantime, NWN and NWN2 both are still high quality creation tools, which are definitely more accessible, as well as blessed with the abiilty to play in multiplayer.

Whether companies realize it or not, Single Player only RPGs will start to lose their punch. They're never going to go completely away (and they shouldn't) but the next iteration of a moddable game with a toolset had better plan on including multiplayer functionality right out of the box, along with multi-platform support. Linux and Mac have both made market share gains on the PC, even though the PC/Win OS still dominates, there's a wealth of profit to be made by offering games such as these to the folks who choose not to support the PC/Win model or simply play on Consoles.

And before I hear another prediction of the death of PC gaming to consoles: Square Enix, Activision and a few other pretty much Console only developers are now moving their attention to PC development as well. So it looks like those coffin nails could probably be put back in the can and stored on the shelf for another decade or so. By then, Consoles will basically be PCs and the argument will be moot.

In the meantime, again, I counsel patience. And heavy doses of playing both NWN and NWN2 until such a time as your patience is rewarded.

best regards,
dunniteowl
(pc gaming since 1987, console gaming since 1977)

Modifié par dunniteowl, 20 juillet 2010 - 02:40 .


#6
Zedicius

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As grinningfool once said, if there is going to be an nwn3, it will most likely be in fourth edition rules. Something I am not looking forward too.

#7
Shallina

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NWN city is destroyed in 4th edition. Hasbro don't want to continue with NWN.

#8
Liso66

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If they were to ever allow a NWN3.. I would hope a new publisher gets the license.

#9
WyrinDnjargo

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Whillst I've got so much form the NWN franchise, the only hope for any new D&D release really getting my interest is if it uses the Pathfinder ruleset - which will mean no FR setting. A 4E game I'll buy, no question, but more for lack of other options

#10
ladydesire

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Liso66 wrote...

If they were to ever allow a NWN3.. I would hope a new publisher gets the license.


And I hope the publisher is Hasbro. :D

#11
Tooneyman

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All this fighting of one franchise. Hurts the head. If people want the law suit over with they need to petition. PERIOD! When fans get involved and demand something. Developers start to listen. Remember not doing something doesn't pay bills and when it comes down to it at the end of the day. What these guys need to be looking at is the money. I don't know the full situations with the law suit with atari, but as a gamer sense I was 2. Yes 2.. I can tell you Atari always has one up their ass!. There has not be a day sense Atari has existed they were not getting sued and if it makes you feel any better they tend to lose a lot on their lawsuits. Now how they have survived all these years as a gaming studios is because they know how games work and they know what people want. They are the god fathers of gaming and if atari goes down the tubes it will be a very cold day any gamer bows his head in silience for a minute.

If you want your game. Get involved and start petitioning for developers to stop the law suit. Once a fan base goes out the doors companies can kiss their money good bye. Trust me when I say this. When the money stops so does the fighting.

#12
Zedicius

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I'd much rather see the next patch for nwn2, then a nwn3...

#13
Liso66

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ladydesire wrote...

Liso66 wrote...

If they were to ever allow a NWN3.. I would hope a new publisher gets the license.


And I hope the publisher is Hasbro. :D


Logical and practical  ;)  Then they can just approve themselves..   lol

#14
Liso66

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Zedicius wrote...

I'd much rather see the next patch for nwn2, then a nwn3...


Okay, before I say this..

*Hides, taking cover under something heavy*

I do not even have NWN2 installed anymore.  :whistle:

#15
I_Raps

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Shallina wrote...

NWN city is destroyed in 4th edition.



That hasn't prevented multiple games and modules about Myth Drannor, has it?

#16
Lyssistr

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I remember reading a rumor (nothing confirmed) about nwn3 being under development as an mmo. I hope it's not the case and it's yet one more rumor.

#17
Crippledcarny

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I can't wait till for the next NWN game so I can find out all the stuff I did in the last game/expansion may as well never have happened!

#18
painofdungeoneternal

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Liso66 wrote...

Zedicius wrote...

I'd much rather see the next patch for nwn2, then a nwn3...


Okay, before I say this..

*Hides, taking cover under something heavy*

I do not even have NWN2 installed anymore.  :whistle:


Probably why you don't see all the good things being done in NWN2 with the last patch and the community. We've already moved beyond a lot of the limitations in both NWN1 and NWN2. You should give it another go. The worst part about NWN2 is how many folks judge it based on how it was at release, and not what it has grown into, which is really why the community is so small, which is a shame because right now is a very exciting time for this game.

#19
Belnor

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With fourth edition rules it doesn't seem likely, and with the lawsuit and all. I still think something with D&D complexity will come about, but have no clue what. I also am not a fan of fourth edition rules.



But, at least I can say this: NWN1 community is still going strong, and NWN2 community concerning modules, etc., is still in it's infancy. Not everybody went off to DA:O/2, but the complexity NWN2 offers and range of choice is going to keep me a player, and fan for a VERY long time.



I mean, I am actually playing NWN1 again, and can't believe what they are doing with the tile sets, etc. I love, top down, isometric, camera angle of play, and the strategic combat offered from NWN2. I think it is going to be a long time before I want to switch.



Belnor.

#20
Magnus Pym

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I seriously DOUBT that Bioware will want to touch another D&D IP with anything less than a Level 4 Biohazard suit and an Extendable 11' pole.




Ahhh, that made me laugh DNO.

#21
Zedicius

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painofdungeoneternal wrote...

Liso66 wrote...

Zedicius wrote...

I'd much rather see the next patch for nwn2, then a nwn3...


Okay, before I say this..

*Hides, taking cover under something heavy*

I do not even have NWN2 installed anymore.  :whistle:


Probably why you don't see all the good things being done in NWN2 with the last patch and the community. We've already moved beyond a lot of the limitations in both NWN1 and NWN2. You should give it another go. The worst part about NWN2 is how many folks judge it based on how it was at release, and not what it has grown into, which is really why the community is so small, which is a shame because right now is a very exciting time for this game.


Liso prefers single player  <_<

#22
bjcuda

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Thanks Dunniteowl for such a cogent and thorough response. While it took me about six months to come up to speed on the NWN2 toolset, once I learned it, I was able to put together a mod that had thousands of lines of dialogue, dozens of new areas and NPC's, and about fifteen hours of gameplay in about a year, working alone.



However, when I upgraded to Win 7, my NWN2 modding dreams came crashing down. I tried the various kluges and work-arounds that had been posted on the internet, but was unable to get any of them to work. What is the liklihood (or has it already been done and I just don't know about it) that BW might patch the toolset so that it works with Win 7?

#23
Dorateen

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Zedicius wrote...

painofdungeoneternal wrote...

Liso66 wrote...

Zedicius wrote...

I'd much rather see the next patch for nwn2, then a nwn3...


Okay, before I say this..

*Hides, taking cover under something heavy*

I do not even have NWN2 installed anymore.  :whistle:


Probably why you don't see all the good things being done in NWN2 with the last patch and the community. We've already moved beyond a lot of the limitations in both NWN1 and NWN2. You should give it another go. The worst part about NWN2 is how many folks judge it based on how it was at release, and not what it has grown into, which is really why the community is so small, which is a shame because right now is a very exciting time for this game.


Liso prefers single player  <_<


So do I, and painofeternaldungeon's point still stands. The NWN2 single-player community is surging, and offers far more than the other single-player alternative.

Harumph!

#24
NWN DM

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painofdungeoneternal wrote...

Probably why you don't see all the good things being done in NWN2 with the last patch and the community. We've already moved beyond a lot of the limitations in both NWN1 and NWN2. You should give it another go. The worst part about NWN2 is how many folks judge it based on how it was at release, and not what it has grown into, which is really why the community is so small, which is a shame because right now is a very exciting time for this game.

Just thought I'd quote this because is really is so absolutely and completely 100% true.

#25
BardKesnit

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Tooneyman wrote...

All this fighting of one franchise. Hurts the head. If people want the law suit over with they need to petition. PERIOD! When fans get involved and demand something. Developers start to listen.


There's no developers involved in the suit. Atarti sold their European operations division to Namco-Bandi, which is a direct competetor to Hasbro. Hasbro asked Atari to show evidence that NB did not have access to WotC information, but Atari did not. Hasbro sued.

Given the circumstances, I doubt a petition would do any good. Hasbro won't drop the suit because it deals with propriatary information. Atari can't drop; all they can do is say "yes, we messed up and we will pay for it." If Atari does that, there is a risk NB will sue Atari for contract violations. (I'm only guessing, but given that Atari sold their operations to NB, turning around and saying "uh, no" would be breach of contract.)

Remember not doing something doesn't pay bills and when it comes down to it at the end of the day.


Hasbro won't drop because they see this as giving a competetor access to their stuff. They risk losing more by dropping than by going forward.

What these guys need to be looking at is the money.


That's what Hasbro is looking at.