70 réponses à ce sujet

[Talisander]

This is an incredible idea, and I think the choice of starting with levels, the thing most likely to bog down new modders, is a great one. The prize concept also seems really well thought out -- what is an innate strength for one person is incredibly valuable to another, and the way you're proposing to set it up, every contest, we all win!



I will definitely be submitting to this.



Thanks for getting this going guys!

[ponozsticka]

I really like the idea, it also gives project leaders opportunity to find someone to fill empty place in team with, while making sure he/she can get work done.



Will be happy to try my luck and take part in this

[mikemike37]

good to hear the positive encouragement guys!



yes, perhaps I should have been more specific about the prize im willing to contribute. A day spent modelling/texturing. I can bust out several simple models in that time, or a single, more elaborate one. Textured and tested in-game, ready for use as a prop in a level, or an interactive placeable (not offering the scripting here though, not my strong point!).



You could swap that out in place of the second prize for this competition (or let the winner take first pick of the prizes), or use it the next contest.



Assuming the contest "opens" formally on Friday 6 August, then monday 27 September as a closing date gives 8 weekends. Thats perhaps more than is needed, I think? While I'm keen for the first one to be a success... 2 months from now is a long way off and it'd be a shame if enthusiasm got lost along the way. Perhaps 6 weekends would be enough... which would make for a closing date of monday 13 september?

[CID-78]

well yeah 2 month might be alot, I consider that most people is adult with a RL and the best i can hope for is that they can do this on weekends. three weekends can be to short for people who hasn't even downloaded the toolset. they must have time to spend getting it running, learn how todo thing and then produce their content. but 6 weeks should be enough. we shouldn't drag out them to long either.



we can shorten the deadline for future contest, especially those that doesn't require so much work as a level. and this is also the reason why we could have several contest running at the same time in the future. to give new people a chance to focus on one, while the good jack of all trades can finish them all.



however we don't want to take all of the modders time, they must be allowed to run their projects and experiments on the side.



and good module contest should take months and we don't want to pause all other fields to wait for that one to finish.

[ITSSEXYTIME]

I think a good way to approach prizes would be to allow the winner to get in-game rewards. For example maybe something like:



-First Place gets a custom modeled suit of armour/robe with stats of their choosing. (And of course the design should be something they like)

-Second place gets to design their own specialization or talent/spell tree. (4 talents/spells)

-Third place could get their own weapon model like a custom sword/stave and what not with stats of their choosing.



Of course this would require some effort from the community as a whole, but I think it'd be a much more satisfying and productive prize. (The content could still be shared with everyone, but the key is that the winner gets to design it themselves)



For people who may not be very good at scripting/modeling such prizes could be very cool to them. And the contest could focus on elements that are easier to pick up, like level creation and cutscenes or head morphs, stuff like that. (Since the focus seems to be noobies)

[CID-78]

well the contest is for people that like to make modules, not really for players so i don't think Ingame rewards is the way to go. I rather reward the ingame rewards for their module then the OC. But if the winner wants to take out their prize as an addin, he/she is allowed to do so.



My scripting prize is quite open, I can write them a new talent or spell or simply tutor them how todo it themself, mikemike37 prize would give them a custom model. and if we combine them you might have a magic weapon with a specific power. and if we get more people willing to lend their time or other resources as prize we could offer other fields of contributions.



I personally want people to go for bigger scopes with their modding and in the long run release something on their own such as their own addins.



the focus is noobs right now. it's a way to give them a reason to tryout the toolset without necissary beable to pull of all types of task in it.



if you win we already know you can handle levels so if you also can write a decent story, my prize can be enough to fill in the lacking pieces. and you might beable to pull off a full module.

[ChewyGumball]

Perhaps a potential prize could be a promo on the dragonage podcast or something similar.

[mikemike37]

ChewyGumball wrote...
Perhaps a potential prize could be a promo on the dragonage podcast or something similar.

Certainly I can discuss that with the podcast guys. 

I'm leaning towards the winner choosing which of these prizes they get, since something like that might be of interest to one person but not at all for another. Would a "points system" be totally over the top? This would allow mix-and-matching. Just another thought to throw in the mix. The winner might be encouraged to later contribute, say, 5 or 10 points in subsequent rewards? 

• CID scripting work/tutoring: 1 point per hour (up to 15 points total among all winners)
• Mike modelling: 1 point per hour (up to 15 points total among all winners)
• Dragon Age Podcast discussion: 5 points (1 per person, up to 10 points)

Winner would get first choice, but all three winners could not, for example, ask CID to do scripting (totalling 30 hours of scripting!)

• 1st place: 15 points
• 2nd place: 10 points
• 3rd place: 5 points

So, a possible outcome could be:

• 1st place chooses 10 points CID, 5 points mike
• 2nd place may not choose more than 5 points CID. 2nd place chooses 5 points CID, 5 points podcast
• 3rd place chooses between remaining options: 5 points mike or 5 points podcast. 3rd place chooses 5 points mike
• Rollover to next contest: 5 points mike, 10 points podcast. Winners asked to contribute 5-10 points.

This is the point at which somebody tells me to stop number-crunching everything!  Anyways... welcome thoughts on this kind of system. Over-complicated? Unfair to any party?

Modifié par mikemike37, 22 juillet 2010 - 11:11 .

[JasonNH]

No, I think that is a good direction to take the prizes, mikemike. If I had the time to enter, it would make it much more appealing to me. Good idea.

[CID-78]

seem fine by me.



*the total cap is distributed enough so that the third price winner atleast can choose between something in all cases.



*aslong as the contributer cap can be either higher or lower then the total points you can earn from first prize.



I am not sure that we should have a rollover system. the contributers might have diffrent amount of time to contribute depening on which month the contest ends, and the winner shouldn't have to wait to much time to beable to drain those hours. (within a month or so)



also a contributers that accept a task from a winner must finish it, it's the contributers job to determine if the hours left is enough to do a task or not. The product should work with current patch. keeping it updated isn't a requirement.



it's the winners task to give details/specifications to the contributer so he or she can determine this.

[mikemike37]

yeah okay, scrap the rollover idea - youre right, they may have different availability from month to month.



and yes, the hours is just a rough figure - the winner and prize-giver will have to communicate to ensure the job is achievable and suitable. it would not be realistic to ask for a large block of work to be done in 5 hours, and both parties will need to communicate what is reasonable.



Will BSN have the hosting requirements we need? I'm inclined to think that it will, but of course, we could use dragon age nexus too. im indifferent.



It may be helpful to supplement it with a wiki catalogue of contributed work. This would allow us to have a page for each contest, with screenshots, links etc. updated by entrants. Once finished, the page could be sorted to have the winners at the top. I don't think it'd be wholly unreasonable to hope that we could make use of the builder's wiki for this? thoughts?

[CID-78]

personally i don't see a problem in using the datoolsetwiki aslong as we keep the only link on the mainpage. we can even allow contest to remain open after deadline, but without prizes.



the question remain where shall the files be uploaded. we need three files, the *.lvl, the builder to builder (for future use) and the builder to player. (for testing), the project section can handle this aslong as we manage a clean list so it's easy to find them.



it also allow the authors to keep their work updated but it would also make it possible for them to remove them, which isn't that great actually goes against the whole idea. so any alternatives?



how about voting? shall only the contributers decide or shall the community have their voice?



if the first, is the contributers allowed to enter and win?



I mean voting for your own contribution is that fair?

[ponozsticka]

there can be problem if you dont allow people who take part in contest to vote, cause there might not be enough votes otherwise.

I mean, voting will be probably handled through forums, right? There are few of those topics where people are adding their votes to something. This way you can make sure that if someone vote for their own contribution vote wont be accepted.



Deleting files, uhm, now thats interesting, cause something like that can happen. Someone will win one of prizes and then delete his/her contribution, dont think that would be fair, if there is no good reason for that. I think that sending all files to someone who would upload them could be safer, still more time consuming solution.



Basicly if you make new project page for each contest, so there will be one project for levels, one for writing etc. it could make it easy to browse and you shouldnt worry bout space, or if files are just too large ( maybe set file limit, available to upload per contestant...well for project page only?) it can be hosted on external file hosting servers...what would go well with single uploader (who might need bigger HD then)

[CID-78]

well we could allways download and keep copies in our own collection project(s), HD space isn't a issue. neither is file size unless you send it in some limited way like email. (which useually have a attachment cap)



but you wouldn't beable to old entries updated easily.

[mikemike37]

hmm... perhaps we need some sort of disclaimer, such as:

"by entering this competition you agree to share your work for other community members to benefit from. As the entries are judged, local copies will be saved and if your work is taken down, you agree to allow us to re-upload it, crediting the work in your name".

As for the specifics of where its hosted... I see two options: have everybody upload them to one project, or have each entry upload them to individual projects. In either case, a wiki page should be maintained listing all the entries and such, as discussed.

So... a single "contest project" where entrants upload their work to... This would require a group to be set up with access to that project to upload entries. This would be nice because it would allow builders to view all the entries from one project. The downside is that upload permission also gives delete permissions... and not just your own, but anybodys work. Which is something of a turnoff.

So the alternative would be to say all entrants must upload their work in their own project titled: "Community Contest #01 - [name of entry]". This would avoid the risk of people taking each other's work down, and we'd still be able to save a local copy and if necessary re-upload the work. The downside is that its be a bit all-over-the-place.

I would think that seperate projects would be the best way forward. With a single wiki page tying them all together, I think theres sufficient cohesion. Can discuss wiki specifics when we're happy with where we upload them.
 

[CID-78]

I agree that we need to go the seperate project, But to atleast limit the spam of project make it possible for authors to reuse them for upcoming contests. all we need is a link, the voters could simply download our collection rather then follow a bunch of links. I think it's better that we keep the management and the right to rename files.



ie so we can make up a library of level files which have a common name system. rather then trying to learn each contestants how we want them named.



while we keep or own set of projects that allows fast download of the whole sets and remove the risk for removal, with the risk of being slightly outdated.

[Talisander]

Yeah, make a community library, with all the files in one place. The only disadvantage from an entrant's perspective, which is not a big one, is that their profile doesn't get as many views (which could benefit their other projects). But even this could be addressed by linking to everyone's profile within the community contest, and mentioning that newer versions may be available from the individual modders' project pages.

I guess what I'm saying is, couldn't we have entrants post their own projects, and then also have someone create a main community contest project? It seems like Mikemike's two suggestions aren't mutually exclusive. We can do both. And it would mean modders can update their own files without bugging the main project owner, but also that all the files can be downloaded in one place, for those who want quick results.

Modifié par Talisander, 21 juillet 2010 - 05:14 .

[mikemike37]

okay, yes i hadnt considered doing both. that sounds good actually. how did i miss that?

[Arttis]

Good....seems making it in September works for me.I am guessing I will not get my hands of the toolset till mid August.So works for me.

Also great ideas guys.

[gtr201]

I'd happily enter and at a later date offer up my time doing some vfx or level work as a prize. The one suggestion I have is that the rules need to clarify whether the entries should be made specifically for the contest or not. Otherwise people could submit something that they've already spent months on or start working on their entry before the contest officially opens. Ideally the theme shouldn't be announced until the contest starts.

Maybe add something like this to the rules?
Entries should represent up to X hours of original work and will be judged accordingly.

Modifié par gtr201, 22 juillet 2010 - 07:28 .

[CID-78]

Well i don't see that as much of a problem. people will never have the same amount of time on their hands. however your right that future contests "themes" shouldn't be known ahead of time. it was needed this time to see if there was any intresst and how we should set it up.



You are allowed to pick something out from your private work folder and submit it. if you are lucky enough that it fits the contest, or rework something that is very close. There is no requirement that you start from scratch at day1.



Besides there is no way to determine how long time it takes to make something. So the rule would actually only limit persons that follows it, while we wouldn't catch those who ignored it. So the rule is futile from the start.



but as a sidenote, I shouldn't setup a theme for a scripting contest and then enter with something i knew i had ahead of time. that wouldn't be fair at all.



and if we get something worth more time then the contest could possibly allow, we only win on such a great contribution to the contest.

[mikemike37]

if its something people would enjoy, timed contests *could* be done but they'd have to work as follows: everybody turn up on BSN at exactly [time/date], at which point the theme will be announced and your submissions have be in within three hours. or whatever.

That sort of contest might work better for "create a new warrior specialization" or "create yourself as an NPC with dialogue"... generally something less time-consuming and specific enough not to be guessed. I suppose a list of required skills would need to be known first so people would at least feel confident they were *able* to compete.

I agree that for this first contest, anything is fair game. In judging, we will frown upon heavily copy-pasted-from-DA levels, but so long as the content is your own, as CID says, submitting it to the contest frees it up as a community resource. thats all good by me!

Also remember judging is likely to favour quality over quantity. A small town done well makes an interesting level. an 80-hour sprawling city will not necessarily be preferable, if it is poorly executed. I think a 5-hour entry could easily reach podium if it is well-considered, unique and interesting

Modifié par mikemike37, 22 juillet 2010 - 09:30 .

[gtr201]

I know it's impossible to enforce completely but from a judging point of view certain things could be given more or less priority. For instance a solid design would be evident after a few hours work and for the purposes of the contest could be looked on more favourably than twenty different bespoke pumpkin models. But as long as the rules are a clear yes or no on using pre-made content then that's fine.

Modifié par gtr201, 22 juillet 2010 - 09:21 .

[mikemike37]

sorry... edited my above post after gtr201 posted... please read changes and also...

One thing I'd like to discuss... is how can we make the contest seem appealing to newcomers. I'd really like if we could award a prize for "best newcomer" or something like that? I'd be happy to make it seperate from the podium places and provide the prize, but how do we go about judging something like that? would people feel cheated if they didnt qualify for it? could people abuse the system?

I really want to see fresh blood taking up the challenge here! Is such an award feasable? 

Modifié par mikemike37, 22 juillet 2010 - 09:31 .

[ITSSEXYTIME]

Yeah there definitely has to be some motivation to draw new blood in. Don't want people to feel like they can't compete because "all the pros are entered" and what not. Maybe the simplest solution is to have two separate "divisions", one for more experienced modders and one for newbies. (To try and maintain equal competition) The "experienced" group would be eligible for the main prizes, while the newbie group would have their own set of prizes. Ideally, the newbie prizes would be unappealing to experienced modders (so they don't try to take advantage of the system) but something that newbies would find useful or appealing. Could even have some sort of "Most Improved" award for people who enter consecutive contest. (Which would have its own unique prize)