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[Grommash94]

SirShreK wrote...

We were made privy to a fact about the ritual of Joining: The Darkspawn blood consumed by the Grey Wardens is not directly utilized. It is a cocktail that contains a drop of the archedemon blood too. This bears a striking resemblance to the Revear specialization unlocked in the Urn of the Sacred Ashes quest.

Let me point out the similarites:

1. In both the cases the blood comes from tha Dragon (in case of Grey warden, a portion of the blood at least).
2. Consumption of the blood (perhaps processed in case of Joining) gives you super-human powers.
3. Avernus further states that the Darspawn taint can be dispelled at least marginally from the blood and can give you enhanced traits.

This makes one wonder. How did the Grew warden's learn of the Joining ritutal? It is not straight-forward as drinking dark-spwan blood. It requires a lot of steps between the dlaying of the darkspawn and drinking the final concoction....

Did they consort with Blood Mages to get this ritual? Because the chief purpose of joining seems to be NOT to sense dark-pawn but to enable onself to saly the Arch-demon......

This also tells us that there IS a possible conncetion between Dragons and Arch-demons.....

It could be that Blood Mages helped the first Grey Wardens; at that point there were many of them, and it was a common practice. But the only goal of the Joining is to be able to avoid Darkspawn ambushes and have the ability to kill an Archdemon...there are really no other benefits, or 'powers' that come as a result. When you get older you start to undertstand the darkspawn/Archdemon better...but that is really about it....whereas Blood Magic is all about drawing power from the blood of others or yours. Surely the Blood Mages would have sought to make the Grey Wardens more than just regular men/women?

It could just simply be a smart magister, or maybe even dwarven scholars who studied the Darkspawn blood. I would imagine that, whether Blood Mages were involved or not, it took some very smart minds to design the entire Joining ritual.

Modifié par Grommash94, 20 juillet 2010 - 02:29 .

[Arrtis]

Maybe after a battle fighting darkspawn and the archdemon.An anders warrior accidentally drank some...

Or they tried to experiment what drinking the archdemon blood may do.Than after enough experiments found only a drop was needed.

Maybe a powerful old Flemeth told them about it knowing that she could not stop the Blight.

Maybe they knew about how drinking the dragons blood could make them stronger and since the archdemon resembles a dragon they tried it....and as said before experimented...

[iTomes]

well the joining ritual was invented by the TI who prayed to old Dragon gods, so id say the two rituals are similar to each other. propably the joining is simply a mutation of the reaver ritual, when the TI guys found out that using archdemon blood only killed the consumers or that it was a horrible waste...

[Grommash94]

SirShreK wrote...

@Grommash94:

This is exactly what I want to arrive at: Anyone who created the Joining Ritual KNEW it was necessary to kill the Archdemon once for and all... This means the creator was aware of the NATURE of the archdemon..!!!!

Now I can see very few people calming that, other than the Magisters...

I wonder if they or other Deus Ex Machina, like Elven gods intervened on behalf of the mortal....

Could be..

Hmm. What if, one of the benevolent spirits of the Fade aided the creators of the Joining ritual? Or perhaps an enslaved demon, captured by a magister. If the Old Gods did roam the Fade, then perhaps the other denizens would have known about them? 

[Warheadz]

To me, the question i wonder is how the first Grey Wardens took down the first Archdemon, as they didn't have any Archdemon blood? I doubt they started mixing the cocktail in the middle of a battle.

[iTomes]

Warheadz wrote...

To me, the question i wonder is how the first Grey Wardens took down the first Archdemon, as they didn't have any Archdemon blood? I doubt they started mixing the cocktail in the middle of a battle.

as far as i know the archdemon was slain several times before the grey wardens came. the demon just did a body switch, but his old body still lay somewhere, giving enough blood...

[Anarya]

I'm going to guess that the Joining is a refined version of whatever it originally was. You can probably drink straight darkspawn blood and become able to slay an archdemon, but it's probably much harder on your body and cuts your life down to days or weeks instead of decades. After all, the first archdemon would have had to be killed by someone who hadn't undergone a proper Joining, because there wouldn't have been any archdemon blood to use for it. It was likely discovered by accident, maybe a bunch of people tried to kill the first AD and it kept hopping bodies until someone infected with the taint was finally able to bring it down.

[Arrtis]

Yes duncans mentions the circle helping with preperations before the joining.

Did not know TI invented it...

[Grommash94]

SirShreK wrote...

iTomes wrote...

Warheadz wrote...

To me, the question i wonder is how the first Grey Wardens took down the first Archdemon, as they didn't have any Archdemon blood? I doubt they started mixing the cocktail in the middle of a battle.

as far as i know the archdemon was slain several times before the grey wardens came. the demon just did a body switch, but his old body still lay somewhere, giving enough blood...

THIS. Perfect on the mark.....

Did the archdemon switch bodies until it found a body of another Dragon? Or did its thrall body TURN into a dragon? MARY, DAVID, SOMEONE please tell us!!!

IMO it was probably some sort of resurrection thing. The Archdemon dies, but then a few minutes/hours later, the soul simply returns to its body after staying the Fade for a while.

Then again, maybe the Archdemon never dies at all. Except at the hands of a Grey Warden.

[Grommash94]

Anarya wrote...

I'm going to guess that the Joining is a refined version of whatever it originally was. You can probably drink straight darkspawn blood and become able to slay an archdemon, but it's probably much harder on your body and cuts your life down to days or weeks instead of decades. After all, the first archdemon would have had to be killed by someone who hadn't undergone a proper Joining, because there wouldn't have been any archdemon blood to use for it. It was likely discovered by accident, maybe a bunch of people tried to kill the first AD and it kept hopping bodies until someone infected with the taint was finally able to bring it down.

Hm. This would make sense.

[Arrtis]

SirShreK wrote...

@iTomes and arttis:

These are good theories... But I would like to point out that the ritual kills most guys who perform it unless they are not Redshirts.... Correct me if I am wrong, there is some Magical process required to be performed before the blood is ready for consumption.

I would really love one of the Devs commenting on this... IF they think its not a big Spoiler...

Also note that Flemeth knew a ritual to capture the soul of an old god when an archdemon dies...I am tellin ya she was old enough to be there.
She could have totally helped out in making the joining.

[Arrtis]

Anarya wrote...

I'm going to guess that the Joining is a refined version of whatever it originally was. You can probably drink straight darkspawn blood and become able to slay an archdemon, but it's probably much harder on your body and cuts your life down to days or weeks instead of decades. After all, the first archdemon would have had to be killed by someone who hadn't undergone a proper Joining, because there wouldn't have been any archdemon blood to use for it. It was likely discovered by accident, maybe a bunch of people tried to kill the first AD and it kept hopping bodies until someone infected with the taint was finally able to bring it down.

They did say the original greywardens who killed the first archdemon did not survive and only people who followed them took up their name.

[Grommash94]

Arrtis wrote...

SirShreK wrote...

@iTomes and arttis:

These are good theories... But I would like to point out that the ritual kills most guys who perform it unless they are not Redshirts.... Correct me if I am wrong, there is some Magical process required to be performed before the blood is ready for consumption.

I would really love one of the Devs commenting on this... IF they think its not a big Spoiler...

Also note that Flemeth knew a ritual to capture the soul of an old god when an archdemon dies...I am tellin ya she was old enough to be there.
She could have totally helped out in making the joining.

Or perhaps the demon inside her knew of it.

I think the Fade spirits are the key here. They have been around for such a long time, they are bound to learn some of these rituals.

[Arrtis]

Oh well.
If she was telling the truth....I suppose it is a bit of a stretch.

Modifié par Arrtis, 20 juillet 2010 - 02:54 .

[Grommash94]

Believe Mary Kirby said she is a 1000 year old abomination as well..but, like I said, there is no reason that the DEMON in Flemeth couldn't have been present at that time.

[tybbiesniffer]

Interesting post and ideas.



Perhaps someone was infected with the taint and the original blood concoction was an attempt to cure the taint. It didn't "cure" them exactly but did postpone the inevitable and only later did they realize the beneficial "side effects" (i.e. being able to slay the arch-demon, sense the darkspawn).

[Kaiser Shepard]

The entity known as Flemeth knows way too much for a mere demon or abomination, I find it more likely that she is closer connected to the Old Gods than she lets on. I say that she is either and Old God reborn herself, one of the original Tevinter Magisters that invaded the Fade or the Elven God known as Fen'Harel.