130 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
In your opinion.

We've established that a silent protagonist is superior if you want to direct expression rather than intent.

No, I disagree with that. I would say a silent protagonist is superior only if you want to invent a story against an ambiguous as possible backdrop. You know I don't think you can express yourself directly in a videogame.

[In Exile]

Pedrak wrote...
And if you want more content, dialogue choices, opportunities for a subtler roleplay...

Ah, you have more dialogue choice, but what matters to us is the number of reactions. If you are given 18 different dialogue choices, but the other NPC can only be happy and said in on very specific way, then you've in fact given us no choice, especially if what the NPC says does not refer to what you said.

I never complained about this directly, but one major issue I have with non-VO is how unnatural it makes conversation. When people speak, they often reference what the other person said. With a great number of dialogue choices you cannot do this, because your VO cost just becomes astronomical for the NPCs. So you get empty lines like:

1. I hate your face.
2. You are pathetic.
3. I've seen excrement with more insight than you.
4. [generic insult in the poorest possible taste]
5. Some non-identical repeat of 4.

NPC: That was mean! My feelings are hurt.

Conversations like this feel empty, and improper. VO allows for more dynamic conversation and more fluid back and forth. Limit choice allows for more responsive NPCs, and in general even with silent VO I am for limiting dialogue options to make them more responsive.

Some fellow fans seem to forget that the choice is not merely between "mute protagonist" and "protagonist with the same exact amount of dialogues, only dubbed" - it's between "mute protagonist with a lot more things to say" and "dubbed protagonist with less dialogue options".

But Shepard says much more than the Warden in DA. All your answers in DA were limited to 65 characters and often shorter. You could, like Sylvius, believe that what your character actually says is not the dialogue option. If you do not buy that, however, VO actually lets you say more in a meaningfully way.

The debate is not so simple as you like to pretend it is.

Of course, if people still prefer VA, fair enough (and Bio is going to do it anyway, it seems). Just remember that there is a price to pay for your "immersion".

Except to us the victory is not immersion; it is superior role-play.

The simplest way to put it is so: for some people, the mental experience of their character is crucial to role-play. For others, it is the number of ways and the degree of richness to which the world responds to your choice. A silent PC impovrishes response at the gain of mental experience, and to some of us the mental experience is simply irrelevant.

[ShadyKat]

Voiced.

Because that's what the hell we are getting in the next game. Deal with it.

[Hagspawn]

Since it is VO an option to mute it would be great. I like to use my imagination and the bonus of not annoying other people in the house with my games.

[Jaryd theBlackDragon]

This is Dragon Age, not Mass Effect. Enough said.

[Sabariel]

I don't mind voiced protagonists as long as their voice isn't bloody annoying.

[javierabegazo]

HagSpawn wrote...

Since it is VO an option to mute it would be great. I like to use my imagination and the bonus of not annoying other people in the house with my games.

So the other voices don't annoy them but the PC voice does??

[Riona45]

javierabegazo wrote...

HagSpawn wrote...

Since it is VO an option to mute it would be great. I like to use my imagination and the bonus of not annoying other people in the house with my games.

So the other voices don't annoy them but the PC voice does??

I was just about to ask that myself...

[Hagspawn]

"Disable dialog audio" is a wonderful thing

Modifié par HagSpawn, 22 juillet 2010 - 05:30 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

In Exile wrote...

No, I disagree with that. I would say a silent protagonist is superior only if you want to invent a story against an ambiguous as possible backdrop. You know I don't think you can express yourself directly in a videogame.

But the backdrop is ambiguous.  Implicit content (implicit anything) in necessarily ambiguous.

[In Exile]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

But the backdrop is ambiguous.  Implicit content (implicit anything) in necessarily ambiguous.

I'm not sure I would agree that implicit content is equivalent to ambiguous content. Something is ambiguous if it is open to multiple interpretations. Something is implicit if it not explicitly stated. For example, if we have (M v T) ^ ~T, then M is implicit but not ambiguous.

The backdrop needs to be designed to be ambiguous. If it is merely not explicited stated, there can still be only a single possible interpretation.

[Evilda]

I prefer voiced characters because I needn't to read dialogs lines loud for my wife to get whole idea whats going on when she is listening. ;-)

[Guns3]

Multiple voices, like in DA:O where we got to pick a voice except it uses this for talk during conversations and don't give me some bull^#&% about it being too expensive. Bioware can afford it.

[Massadonious1]

If they could afford it, I'm pretty sure it would of happened in DA:O.

[TMZuk]

Guns3 wrote...

Multiple voices, like in DA:O where we got to pick a voice except it uses this for talk during conversations and don't give me some bull^#&% about it being too expensive. Bioware can afford it.

Sure they can. That's why they reduce our options to human only. And it isn't like the voiced dialogue in DA:O already reduced the options immensely, as most of the replies was the same, no matter what you asked. Nooooooot at all.

Voices cost ALOT of money, and they take up huge amounts of disc-space.

A choise between silent content or voiced linearity is easy. Silence, please.

[Lyssistr]

Guns3 wrote...

Multiple voices, like in DA:O where we got to pick a voice except it uses this for talk during conversations and don't give me some bull^#&% about it being too expensive. Bioware can afford it.

Sure they can, for what pricetag on DA2?

 Any additional cost will leave its "fingerprint" on DA2's price. Of course they can hire four more actors, it's Bioware, not an indie studio, but how many would be willing to pay that cost when DA2 is released?

 Not me, I always buy games when they reach 30£ cost if I want them that badly, less than (15£ on Steam) that if I'm mildly interested. You may criticize that if you wish, still I don't care as it gives me a couple more days of holidays in places which I find much more fun than playing any computer game out there.

 In short? They can even afford Angelina Jolie to do a voiceover, the question is with what impact on DA2's price.

[TomasKratky1]

Voiced main character is better for the cinematic type of games that Bioware makes imo. At least when I compare DAO and ME, then having voiced Shepard in ME seemed more appropriate to me.

[Aradace]

you know what? It doesnt matter what any of us want (I prefer the voiced character btw). Because BioWare has already decided to do a fully voiced character and to think they are going to suddenly do a 180 and go back to a voiceless character is a little unrealistic. Get....Over....It XD

[Jaryd theBlackDragon]

Aradace wrote...

you know what? It doesnt matter what any of us want (I prefer the voiced character btw). Because BioWare has already decided to do a fully voiced character and to think they are going to suddenly do a 180 and go back to a voiceless character is a little unrealistic. Get....Over....It XD

Yeah, given sales numbers most people prefer ME over DAO, so they just turn DA2 in some cheap ME clone (well, expensive probably, but you get the drift). Just going where the money is, but hey, they can still prove otherwise, though I'm not counting on it given what I've been seeing lately.

So no, it's not the just voiceovers that bother most people, but the implications that come with it and the other stuff we've been hearing about DA2 lately.

Modifié par Jaryd theBlackDragon, 22 juillet 2010 - 05:21 .

[okiness]

Either. I voiced my character in Dragon Age Origins but I liked them being silent most of the time, truthfully, but it will be interesting to see them be voiced

[Sylvius the Mad]

TomasKratky1 wrote...

Voiced main character is better for the cinematic type of games that Bioware makes imo.

BioWare only started making cinematic games of that type with Mass Effect.

So yes, the voice might be better for those, but the question remains whether this cinematic approach is a good one.

[errant_knight]

Aradace wrote...

you know what? It doesnt matter what any of us want (I prefer the voiced character btw). Because BioWare has already decided to do a fully voiced character and to think they are going to suddenly do a 180 and go back to a voiceless character is a little unrealistic. Get....Over....It XD

Yes. They should just shut down the forums. All this discussion is bad.

[Ulicus]

I wish the character had been silent in DA:O. Unfortunately, we were stuck with a bunch of voices that -- for the human males, anyway -- were pretty awful. Elves and dwarves got a much nicer selection.

[DanielFlame]

Its gonna be voiced. And its prob gonna turn out awesome, just like mass effect did.

[Grommash94]

I like both, for different reasons. They both can be just as effective and immersive imo.