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Please don't strip down the role playing elements like you did in ME2


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#51
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Vlainstrike wrote...

snip .


Well I felt like I did customize my Sheps.  None of them really looked the same at all (unless you consider default heavy armor too constrictive.)  More than that, they didn't just look different, they really felt different.  None of them play like any of the others.  In DAO a sword feels like a sword no matter what it looks like.  It might vary in what kind of elemental damage it does or what color it glows or whatever, but at basics all weapons of a given type are the same.  There was more distinction by class in that regard than in being able to switch between armors and weapons, but in ME2, you could switch between two weapons of the same type (say Locust with cryo switched for Shuriken with disrupter) and you really have a very different thing going on altogether within the same class and even within the same weapon types.  I've played almost nothing but infiltrators in all my playthroughs and I have yet to get two that are really similar.  I think that is deep customization.  It's just based on feel rather than looks.

#52
Gatt9

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Okay, I grok. I've just never thought about that as an element of role-playing. I enjoy customizing a character's look, but I never really thought about it like that. Now that I'm thinking about it, it sounds fairly significant in a CRPG. Since plot options are bound to be fairly narrow in a CRPG, ways to customize one's character become more important, I suppose




It is a reasonably important component of RPG's, equipment is a method of character progression independent of Experience Points. It's intended purpose is to permit character progression as a continuous event rather than a sudden immediate event.



It can be removed, and still be an RPG, but it comes at the cost of character progression and highlights the flaws of leveling, the fact that it's a sudden out-of-place jump in ability.



Um, I'm sure someone else has already posted this but actually ME2 has WAY more guns than ME1. The only thing that changes on guns in ME1 is some tweaking of how fast a gun overheats and how much damage it does, but every shotgun in the game feels just like every other shotgun. In ME2, every gun has a distinct and unique feel. If you use the Widow vs the Viper or the Incisor it feels completely different. You don't see the "stats" on the guns but they are still very different guns. ME1 just offered numeric upgrades of the same four models with different paint jobs.




1. ME2 is a shooter, not an RPG. It fails the fundamental check, Character Skill > Player Skill. Character skill defines RPG, Player skill defines Shooter. There's no merging the two, they're polar opposites. It's what defines each genre, whichever you implement is what genre of gameplay you get. Pretending there's an RPG leveling system doesn't make it an RPG, just a Shooter that lets you pick what your secondary fire mode is.



2. ME2 has shooter weapons. There's no variation, no customization, you can't even change at will. Pick your weapons from the level loading screen, and shoot stuff. Examine the gameplay itself and all you find is a really bad Quake 2.



I'm consistently amazed that people describe this game as an RPG. 10 years ago every gaming media site would've given abyssmal ratings and people would've flamed the heck out of it for it's glaring flaws. 10 years ago, it would've been labeled as shovel-ware, because that's exactly what it was. Inconsistent flawed story, inaccurate label, horrible gameplay by it's real genre's standards, it's the reason why I'll wait for user reviews and message board posts before I buy any more Bioware games. I got burned for $70 buying ME2 and expecting a sequel to ME.

#53
joriandrake

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1. ME2 is a shooter, not an RPG. It fails the fundamental check, Character Skill > Player Skill. Character skill defines RPG, Player skill defines Shooter. There's no merging the two, they're polar opposites. It's what defines each genre, whichever you implement is what genre of gameplay you get. Pretending there's an RPG leveling system doesn't make it an RPG, just a Shooter that lets you pick what your secondary fire mode is.


this

that said it is not bad but just not a real RPG

#54
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Oh man do we need to get Gaider in here to explain about how NOBODY knows what is meant by RPG anymore? I think a dev once said that if you ask three people what an RPG is you get "six answers and somebody talking angrily about Fallout." What RPG meant in 2000 is not necessary what it means now. Just like "platformer" has changed. 13 years ago, Crash Bandicoot was a platformer. Now Ratchet and Clank is called a platformer and those games are WAY different. They are also both platformers. RPGs have evolved. The definition of RPG is not static.

#55
joriandrake

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the fact about character skill being a lot more important than player skill will never change as a basic description for RPG-s, I didn't even know anyone would argue against that

#56
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Lots of people would and have. And player skill also factors in when you consider "strategy and skillful allocation of points" even in an old-school RPG.  And ME2 does have a system that revolves around stat allocation of powers, careful selection of weapons, balance of squad, and so on.  None of that has anything to do with how well the player aims.

Modifié par Ragabul the Ontarah, 21 juillet 2010 - 05:05 .


#57
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Whats the deal with DA2's combat anyways, it it getting turned into an rpg/hacknslash hybrid like kingdom hearts?

Modifié par bobobo878, 21 juillet 2010 - 05:04 .


#58
joriandrake

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aslong there is no "combo attack" and we can still pause while fighting i don't care much

#59
Pocketgb

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Get rid of combat mechanics altogether and have every fight be a cutscene so they can focus on the REAL role-playing mechanics.

bobobo878 wrote...

Whats the deal with DA2's combat anyways, it it getting turned into an rpg/hacknslash hybrid like kingdom hearts?


Anything's better than WoW-lite.

Modifié par Pocketgb, 21 juillet 2010 - 05:08 .


#60
joriandrake

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Pocketgb wrote...

Get rid of combat mechanics altogether and have every fight be a cutscene so they can focus on the REAL role-playing mechanics.


this may very much been sarcasm but tell the truth combat is what annoys me the most in PC rpg-s and I always rush through them the quickest possible way just to get over with it

#61
Pocketgb

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Combat in a Bioware game has always been fluff. If they truly treat it as such I'd imagine a more immersive experience. Of course combat never required voice actors, but whatever.

#62
In Exile

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joriandrake wrote...

the fact about character skill being a lot more important than player skill will never change as a basic description for RPG-s, I didn't even know anyone would argue against that


Okay: character skill is irrelevant to an RPG.

Some people think it's gameplay stuff that like this that makes an RPG. Other people think it's silent VO and the ability to use your imagination to say things 100 different ways that makes an RPG. Other people think it is the quality and focus on the story compared to all other games. Basically everyone has their opinion, and you're missing one divine inspired text to prove your case.

After all, PnP uses number crunching as a technological limitation.

#63
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I sympathize with that. To me the whole combat system is just a means to an end anyway. I'm more concerned with why I'm fighting and who I'm fighting than what kind of stick I have in my hand. Not that I don't appreciate smooth combat, of course I do, but my main concern with combat in a Bioware style game is just that "it doesn't get in the way too much." It doesn't have to be stellar. So long as isn't a drag and allows me to push the story and character interaction forward, that is what I am most concerned about.

#64
HTTP 404

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ME2 is awesome! strip away!

#65
oblivionenss

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Pocketgb wrote...

Get rid of combat mechanics altogether and have every fight be a cutscene so they can focus on the REAL role-playing mechanics.

bobobo878 wrote...

Whats the deal with DA2's combat anyways, it it getting turned into an rpg/hacknslash hybrid like kingdom hearts?


Anything's better than WoW-lite.


You had to go down that path didn't you??

So how about all the old CRPGs that had  round based system long before WoW, and wich they based this on.

And they have not weapons, where you have that, hit every X seconds crap that wow has.

#66
Vlainstrike

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Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

 I think a dev once said that if you ask three people what an RPG is you get "six answers and somebody talking angrily about Fallout."


lolz, I like that one, gonna have to remember it :D

#67
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Does anyone know the technical name for those parts of a game in which it's like a cutscene, but you have to mash buttons until it either continues, or switches to a cutscene in which you die?

#68
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It's called a quick-time event.

#69
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Umm, you mean like those God of War style mini-games? I think they just call them mini-games.

#70
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Aw, I'm thinking of something different altogether. Never mind.

#71
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That's it, quick-time events. Resident Evil games are full of them. Lets hope Bioware continues to exclude them.

#72
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Seriously. I hate quick-time events. I'm awesome at hand-eye coordination, but it takes me a bit to learn the right reaction. Random button mashing on a timer is not fun.

#73
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Sometimes I think it's the people who manufacture gamepads who pressure developers to add quick time events. Guess they decided they weren't wearing out fast enough.

#74
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I think they can be annoying but they can also be implemented very well. Uncharted 2 comes to mind.

#75
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How'd they pull that off? In RE5 and MW2 they were just a nuisance.