The only time I've had to use money exploits are when I want to turn in the Wade series of quests and also need Evon the Great's Mail but cannot afford it. I typically waste the money I gave myself.
It's as if the console is a form of credit, to maintain the illusion of not cheating.
Character Recreation - DW Rogue or Warrior
Débuté par
Guest_Lunarionsilver_*
, juil. 21 2010 02:48
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#27
Posté 30 juillet 2010 - 02:28
soteria
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I have mixed feelings about the best items being bought rather than dropped. The nice thing about purchasing the best items is it lets me choose the order I do quests based on what I want to do rather than what gear I want to acquire. It's not standard fantasy, but the "realism" issue doesn't bug me much. Realistically, you'd never get your hands on any of the truly great items unless you went around murdering nobles. That, or the best items would be ones you commissioned to be made yourself.
I guess it is more normal in the realm of fantasy for long-lost legendary weapons to be found rusting in a forgotten cave, with some ancient protector standing watch, waiting for a worthy adventurer to fight or send on a glorified scavenger hunt, but I don't see it as exactly "realistic." It's kinda fun acquiring items like that, but like I said, this system has its advantages as well.
I guess it is more normal in the realm of fantasy for long-lost legendary weapons to be found rusting in a forgotten cave, with some ancient protector standing watch, waiting for a worthy adventurer to fight or send on a glorified scavenger hunt, but I don't see it as exactly "realistic." It's kinda fun acquiring items like that, but like I said, this system has its advantages as well.
#28
Posté 30 juillet 2010 - 04:45
Last Darkness
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soteria wrote...
I have mixed feelings about the best items being bought rather than dropped. The nice thing about purchasing the best items is it lets me choose the order I do quests based on what I want to do rather than what gear I want to acquire. It's not standard fantasy, but the "realism" issue doesn't bug me much. Realistically, you'd never get your hands on any of the truly great items unless you went around murdering nobles. That, or the best items would be ones you commissioned to be made yourself.
I guess it is more normal in the realm of fantasy for long-lost legendary weapons to be found rusting in a forgotten cave, with some ancient protector standing watch, waiting for a worthy adventurer to fight or send on a glorified scavenger hunt, but I don't see it as exactly "realistic." It's kinda fun acquiring items like that, but like I said, this system has its advantages as well.
I agree with this....it really dumbs it down as it were that LITERALY some of teh best items in the game are availible from merchants like 3 hours into the game. It would have been nicer if they were more rewards, Drops, Chests, hidden quests etc.
#29
Posté 30 juillet 2010 - 12:12
kongenial
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That is exactly one point that annoys me in nearly every (newer) RPG. The devs force you to starve through the most of the game until the end when money is overflowing and you can't buy anything useful anymore. Where is the good ol' "kill and loot"?
Besides that, either randomized loot or specific loot would be viable, like for the first quest a rouge gets a dagger and so on. Unfortunatly Bioware screwed this up, just like any other studio these days. Just my two cents.
OT: Like already said, I would do rather a DW warrior than a rouge with two large weapons.
Besides that, either randomized loot or specific loot would be viable, like for the first quest a rouge gets a dagger and so on. Unfortunatly Bioware screwed this up, just like any other studio these days. Just my two cents.
OT: Like already said, I would do rather a DW warrior than a rouge with two large weapons.
#30
Posté 30 juillet 2010 - 07:40
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kongenial wrote...
That is exactly one point that annoys me in nearly every (newer) RPG. The devs force you to starve through the most of the game until the end when money is overflowing and you can't buy anything useful anymore. Where is the good ol' "kill and loot"?
Besides that, either randomized loot or specific loot would be viable, like for the first quest a rouge gets a dagger and so on. Unfortunatly Bioware screwed this up, just like any other studio these days. Just my two cents.
OT: Like already said, I would do rather a DW warrior than a rouge with two large weapons.
I didnt like the "random loot" system Bioware used for Knights of the Old Republic if thats any indication of how they handle it. Now I do like powerful items gotten relativly early in game by secret means or hidden locations(usualy after youve beaten the game once) but give us a better sense of accomplishment+Reward for our actions in game instead of abusing exploits or crafting to farm gold or something to buy things like Veshialle, Evons, lifegiver Etc
#31
Posté 31 juillet 2010 - 10:26
kongenial
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IIRC then KotoR was pretty the same. The best items could be bought for a lot of money and the some of the best crytals could be found on the planet beneath the star forge.
And lets not forget the stupidity of giving the best armor to the players for the last half hour of the game
And lets not forget the stupidity of giving the best armor to the players for the last half hour of the game
#32
Posté 31 juillet 2010 - 11:42
MEBengal2008
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If you plan to take your character from DAO to DA Awakening I would go with a rogue dwarf because the Legion Scout class fits with a dwarf rogue build. You could go STR or CUNNING build with a DEX of 52 to obtain the higher rogue talents.
Cunning Build
-You only need to invest one point into STR giving the rest of attribute points to be invested into DEX and CUNNING
-Bard and Asassin specializations use cunning for talents, which can impact damage or backstab
-All the rogue talents are more effective and impact enemies more so with cunning than with DEX or STR
-This build is limited in the armor selection and therefore will receive more upfront damage than a STR build
-This build also will have a lower attack score when not flanking
STRENGTH
-This build only requires a cunning score of 17 because of the 5 fade bonus points which will provide the character enough in cunning to acquire all the rouge specific feats
-After obaining a cunning score of 17 the rest of the attribute points can be disbributed to STR and DEX equally or as you see fit.
-This character can equip heaver armor and use two larger weapons in both hands since he/she will have a higher STR score to use the heavier weapons
- This build really benefits from the first talent from the Legion Scout as it would provide +10 to STR and CON
- This build at times will lack the necessary skill to open locks early on until level 12 is acquired
- This build the rogue specific talent like dirty fighting does not keep the eney stun as long as it does with a cunning build
I'm including a DEX Build
-This build has the negative of both STR and CUNNING Build (expect this build would not be impacted by the attack score like a cunning build)
-The biggest positive out of this build is the defense; however, how do you defend yourself when being held.
-If you play on a console you will regret this build since daggers do not use DEX to calculate the damage at this point in time. Once the newest patch is released, that changes everything for consoles.
I'm holding off on playing a new game with a rogue right now because I want to play it with the newest patch. I'm planning to play a STR build dwarf noble/commer rogue with specialization in duelist and asassion in DAO and when I get into DA Awakening I will respec him with the legion scout and shadow specializations. I will only level up my character to level 18 (even though I will allow him to continue level up but not actually distributing talents or attribute points until I get to Awakening).
Cunning will start off at 17. From there 2 points into DEX and a point into STR until DEX reaches 52. Once DEX reaches 52 the rest will go into STR. I'm not going with any dual wielding feats as my character will be using a shield to help improve his defense and other special defensive abilities.
The only problem I have with rogues in general is that all of them require micro management and if you don't plan on using stealth don't bother with a rogue. Stealth is a life savior in battle; it can be your quick escape so that you can drink a potion and recover life, etc without being seen or injured further.
Cunning Build
-You only need to invest one point into STR giving the rest of attribute points to be invested into DEX and CUNNING
-Bard and Asassin specializations use cunning for talents, which can impact damage or backstab
-All the rogue talents are more effective and impact enemies more so with cunning than with DEX or STR
-This build is limited in the armor selection and therefore will receive more upfront damage than a STR build
-This build also will have a lower attack score when not flanking
STRENGTH
-This build only requires a cunning score of 17 because of the 5 fade bonus points which will provide the character enough in cunning to acquire all the rouge specific feats
-After obaining a cunning score of 17 the rest of the attribute points can be disbributed to STR and DEX equally or as you see fit.
-This character can equip heaver armor and use two larger weapons in both hands since he/she will have a higher STR score to use the heavier weapons
- This build really benefits from the first talent from the Legion Scout as it would provide +10 to STR and CON
- This build at times will lack the necessary skill to open locks early on until level 12 is acquired
- This build the rogue specific talent like dirty fighting does not keep the eney stun as long as it does with a cunning build
I'm including a DEX Build
-This build has the negative of both STR and CUNNING Build (expect this build would not be impacted by the attack score like a cunning build)
-The biggest positive out of this build is the defense; however, how do you defend yourself when being held.
-If you play on a console you will regret this build since daggers do not use DEX to calculate the damage at this point in time. Once the newest patch is released, that changes everything for consoles.
I'm holding off on playing a new game with a rogue right now because I want to play it with the newest patch. I'm planning to play a STR build dwarf noble/commer rogue with specialization in duelist and asassion in DAO and when I get into DA Awakening I will respec him with the legion scout and shadow specializations. I will only level up my character to level 18 (even though I will allow him to continue level up but not actually distributing talents or attribute points until I get to Awakening).
Cunning will start off at 17. From there 2 points into DEX and a point into STR until DEX reaches 52. Once DEX reaches 52 the rest will go into STR. I'm not going with any dual wielding feats as my character will be using a shield to help improve his defense and other special defensive abilities.
The only problem I have with rogues in general is that all of them require micro management and if you don't plan on using stealth don't bother with a rogue. Stealth is a life savior in battle; it can be your quick escape so that you can drink a potion and recover life, etc without being seen or injured further.
#33
Posté 01 août 2010 - 02:39
kongenial
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If you want to use two longswords you would have to stat str anyway. Using longswords slows you attackspeed and makes backstabbing worse.
At the same the your skill damage will increase. Because of this I would use them more than backstab, therefor the warrior may be more suited due to his Death Blow ability. Nevertheless I prefer a dex warrior with daggers as you're able to inflict damage without relying on stamina.
At the same the your skill damage will increase. Because of this I would use them more than backstab, therefor the warrior may be more suited due to his Death Blow ability. Nevertheless I prefer a dex warrior with daggers as you're able to inflict damage without relying on stamina.
Modifié par kongenial, 01 août 2010 - 02:43 .
#34
Posté 01 août 2010 - 08:06
Last Darkness
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kongenial wrote...
If you want to use two longswords you would have to stat str anyway. Using longswords slows you attackspeed and makes backstabbing worse.
At the same the your skill damage will increase. Because of this I would use them more than backstab, therefor the warrior may be more suited due to his Death Blow ability. Nevertheless I prefer a dex warrior with daggers as you're able to inflict damage without relying on stamina.
Good points, not to mention you have to get at least 31+ Str to wield longswords and then if your being a cunning build that means you need 32+ Str for cunning to take over therby negating at least 20 stat points.
#35
Posté 03 août 2010 - 03:05
Sallul
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Maybe I'm just completely missing something here, can you back stab with longswords/full sized weapons?
#36
Posté 03 août 2010 - 05:14
Maverick827
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Yes, you can backstab with longswords.
I guess the math has proven that daggers to better DPS with backstabbing, though I haven't gone through it myself. The concept of sustained DPS in this game seems a bit inapplicable, though.
I would presume any given backstab with a large weapon would do more damage than that of a dagger, and if you're two-three shotting trash with a mix of said backstabs and superior special damage, then sustained DPS ceases to matter.
I would love to hear the results of a 52 Dex / Max Strength dual-longsword Rogue. I really hope it could work out, but it just seems a Spirit Warrior in its place would just be so much better. Flicker just seems too much fun to pass up
I guess the math has proven that daggers to better DPS with backstabbing, though I haven't gone through it myself. The concept of sustained DPS in this game seems a bit inapplicable, though.
I would presume any given backstab with a large weapon would do more damage than that of a dagger, and if you're two-three shotting trash with a mix of said backstabs and superior special damage, then sustained DPS ceases to matter.
I would love to hear the results of a 52 Dex / Max Strength dual-longsword Rogue. I really hope it could work out, but it just seems a Spirit Warrior in its place would just be so much better. Flicker just seems too much fun to pass up
Modifié par Maverick827, 03 août 2010 - 05:16 .
#37
Posté 03 août 2010 - 08:25
Last Darkness
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You can backsabd with a sword+shield or even two hand weapons if you have the str to use them.
#38
Posté 03 août 2010 - 08:40
Maverick827
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Would anyone happen to have a good save of a mid-high level rogue lying around? I would love to test this out before I make it. Gear really doesn't matter, I can console in really anything I'd need.
Edit: I'll probably try it out regardless; worst case scenario it just does less damage than a dex/cunning dagger build with a bit more survivability and I either abandon the character or re-spec.
Edit: I'll probably try it out regardless; worst case scenario it just does less damage than a dex/cunning dagger build with a bit more survivability and I either abandon the character or re-spec.
Modifié par Maverick827, 03 août 2010 - 09:12 .
#39
Posté 03 août 2010 - 10:30
Last Darkness
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Maverick827 wrote...
Would anyone happen to have a good save of a mid-high level rogue lying around? I would love to test this out before I make it. Gear really doesn't matter, I can console in really anything I'd need.
Edit: I'll probably try it out regardless; worst case scenario it just does less damage than a dex/cunning dagger build with a bit more survivability and I either abandon the character or re-spec.
Sorry I dont, I think they may be locked to your game anyways.
Just remember some build are more oriented towards just autoattacking like daggers are while others are more about spamming skills like heavier weapons. Would you judge a two hand warrior on his auto attack alone?
#40
Posté 03 août 2010 - 11:23
Maverick827
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You can transfer saved games between players; just zip up the character file in Documents/BioWare/Characters.
I love playing Rogues, but never could because the armor just looks terrible, hence why I don't want to play a Dex or Cunning based Rogue.
That said, if this doesn't work out, I think I can use the Winter's Forge to alter leather into heavier armor models, so there's always that.
The biggest things standing in the way of a Strength based Rogue from what I can tell (when compared to a Warrior, that is):
1. The "bonus" of the class, that is the benefit of going Strength, is to have more damage on specials. This, however, means less auto-attack damage. This wouldn't be so much of a problem if it weren't for...
2. Poor stamina and high fatigue. If I wear Evon the Great's Mail and Wade's, I can get a near 0% fatigue from armor. That said, it would be sub-optimal to wear Wade's. I would probably mix-and-match various pieces for the best effect. Things get better in Awakenings with stamina potions and Invigorate.
Feast of the Fallen also cannot be ruled out, as I can hopefully time specials correctly so I am getting enough kills with backstabs.
3. Aggro. I absolutely hate aggro in this game; I have idle characters pull from my active characters regularly. I might even pick up Feign Death (since there's no way I'm making this rogue the lock-picker and thus have free talents there) along with stealth that I anticipate so much aggro.
4. Spirit Warrior is probably the best Specialization in the game.
Some pluses I am seeing:
1. AoE specials with a higher-damage weapon is obviously better.
2. Legionnaire Scout gives +10 Strength.
3. Between Ghost, Armor, Dodge, Defense, Decoy, Stealth, and Strength of Stone, this should be one endurable character.
I love playing Rogues, but never could because the armor just looks terrible, hence why I don't want to play a Dex or Cunning based Rogue.
That said, if this doesn't work out, I think I can use the Winter's Forge to alter leather into heavier armor models, so there's always that.
The biggest things standing in the way of a Strength based Rogue from what I can tell (when compared to a Warrior, that is):
1. The "bonus" of the class, that is the benefit of going Strength, is to have more damage on specials. This, however, means less auto-attack damage. This wouldn't be so much of a problem if it weren't for...
2. Poor stamina and high fatigue. If I wear Evon the Great's Mail and Wade's, I can get a near 0% fatigue from armor. That said, it would be sub-optimal to wear Wade's. I would probably mix-and-match various pieces for the best effect. Things get better in Awakenings with stamina potions and Invigorate.
Feast of the Fallen also cannot be ruled out, as I can hopefully time specials correctly so I am getting enough kills with backstabs.
3. Aggro. I absolutely hate aggro in this game; I have idle characters pull from my active characters regularly. I might even pick up Feign Death (since there's no way I'm making this rogue the lock-picker and thus have free talents there) along with stealth that I anticipate so much aggro.
4. Spirit Warrior is probably the best Specialization in the game.
Some pluses I am seeing:
1. AoE specials with a higher-damage weapon is obviously better.
2. Legionnaire Scout gives +10 Strength.
3. Between Ghost, Armor, Dodge, Defense, Decoy, Stealth, and Strength of Stone, this should be one endurable character.
#41
Posté 03 août 2010 - 03:18
Stjerne
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i think they should have made the "Legendary" items more special to get. Like they have been deep beaneth a lost cave no one dares to go and it is surounded with traps and puzzle'z and a epic boss
guarding it in the end. something like proves you whorthy using it. not like f****** bying it cuz your money glitching.
guarding it in the end. something like proves you whorthy using it. not like f****** bying it cuz your money glitching.
#42
Posté 04 août 2010 - 08:00
Last Darkness
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Maverick I was fond of the Duelest/Scout/Shadow setup.
Its really something you have to play to geta feel for and that not always works correctly (Alot of people on the forum for example dont understand why people say Two hander is so good and when they try it they suck and die all the time etc.)
Its really something you have to play to geta feel for and that not always works correctly (Alot of people on the forum for example dont understand why people say Two hander is so good and when they try it they suck and die all the time etc.)
#43
Posté 05 août 2010 - 12:08
Maverick827
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Well, I wouldn't be going two-hander. If Rogues had access to the two-handed tree, I would be all over that (and it would probably be overpowered, but then again I'm currently soloing on an AW/BM and it's a yawn-fest, so meh).
Once I get done with this AW/BM Awakenings run through, I'll probably add the weapon talents to my character builder, mess around with Rogue builds, and then start the Strength Rogue run through.
Once I get done with this AW/BM Awakenings run through, I'll probably add the weapon talents to my character builder, mess around with Rogue builds, and then start the Strength Rogue run through.
#44
Posté 05 août 2010 - 04:43
beancounter501
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I like a strength Rogue build. I am playing that through now. He can still use specials, but also backstab and stealth. Currently fairly low level - 9 but strong. Sneaking in for a backstab then hitting Flurry and Dual Sweep before falling back to Momentum and Dirty Fighting.
Also, for the large weapon Rogues the talent Below the Belt is a must. It hits at just a second(same as a Sword/Axe with Momentum), but has a +5 Attack, applie -10 defense and -50 move to the target. Very nice. The second talent in that tree sucks though - since it is very slow at 2 seconds. But I guess if you were using a two hand weapon or single weapon that would be decent.
Also, for the large weapon Rogues the talent Below the Belt is a must. It hits at just a second(same as a Sword/Axe with Momentum), but has a +5 Attack, applie -10 defense and -50 move to the target. Very nice. The second talent in that tree sucks though - since it is very slow at 2 seconds. But I guess if you were using a two hand weapon or single weapon that would be decent.
