702 réponses à ce sujet

[Quercus]

First posting this.

Tirigon wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...

Get. The. **** out.

what an intelligent, well thought-out post. Your contribution is noted as worthy.

And then posting this.

Tirigon wrote...

The best leveling is the way it´s handled in Oblivion.

Truth be told, you contributed pretty much as much as Slidell with a post like that.

Modifié par Shiroukai, 21 juillet 2010 - 02:38 .

[Ravenwoud]

Tirigon wrote...

filetemo wrote...

nikki191 wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

The best leveling is the way it´s handled in Oblivion.

i liked it but its open to abuse more than an xp system is.. casting a spell over and over to raise your skill .. yeah it should happen that way but people will abuse it

oblivion:

run
get stuck against a wall while running
leave the computer and go buy groceries
maximized running skill
profit

So what? If you run for 3 hours, your skill in running DOES improve, even in real life.


And most skills are learned by repetition. Casting a spell over and over is what the mages in the circle do to learn their skills, after all.........

thats true but its still a game.

what fun is it to be uber powerfull and max all your skills/talents ansd then pawn everyhting on your way.

thats a big NO from me.
the way i said it before is perhaps a bit from obblivion but not compeltely.

the only way you could make it like in oblivion is by putting a border on it. you have to do something challenging in order to get it past the border on to the next one.

[Stefanocrpg_rev91]

I agree with the op, I would like a system that actually rewarded a char who uses his skills and not just the one who smashes all the enemies down.

[andar91]

It would be neat if we had a couple ways to get through a situation, but I don't think that xp per kill should be removed. It makes sense to me that my character would grow more powerful as he/she fights, as powerful in game terms equals prowess in combat (with the exception of skills).

[Quercus]

I'm fine with getting exp on killing enemies.

The more you kill, the more experience you'll get into killing.

Sounds pretty logical to me.

[Tirigon]

Shiroukai wrote...


Truth be told, you contributed pretty much as much as Slidell with a post like that.

You´re the guy who posted the "new screenshot" so it´s probably unnecessary to explain anything to you, but....

I did in fact like the leveling in Oblivion, and I think it is the best approach I have seen so far.

[Jacks Smirking Revenge]

Tirigon wrote...

Shiroukai wrote...


Truth be told, you contributed pretty much as much as Slidell with a post like that.

You´re the guy who posted the "new screenshot" so it´s probably unnecessary to explain anything to you, but....

I did in fact like the leveling in Oblivion, and I think it is the best approach I have seen so far.

The level scaling on it was quite bad at least to me it was. I did like their idea of monster scaling IE wolves->bears->mythical beasts etc kind of thing. It is silly to have a pack of wolves being one of the hardest encounters in the game.

[Tirigon]

Ravenwoud wrote...

thats true but its still a game.

what fun is it to be uber powerfull and max all your skills/talents ansd then pawn everyhting on your way.

thats a big NO from me.
the way i said it before is perhaps a bit from obblivion but not compeltely.

the only way you could make it like in oblivion is by putting a border on it. you have to do something challenging in order to get it past the border on to the next one.

Well, some people like being uber. And the ones who don´t aren´t forced to exploit it.

Imo, exploits must be closed in multiplayer games for fairness, but in single player games there´s nothing wrong without exploits as lng as the game is beatable without using them.

[Blackbaron15]

The old system works so what the hell is the point of changing it?

[Tirigon]

Jacks Smirking Revenge wrote...


The level scaling on it was quite bad at least to me it was. I did like their idea of monster scaling IE wolves->bears->mythical beasts etc kind of thing. It is silly to have a pack of wolves being one of the hardest encounters in the game.

Totally agree about the level scaling.

But the leveling itself was good, imo.

I mean - you use your sword, you get better with the sword. You cast spells, you get better with spells.

Makes sense, doesn´t it?

[epoch_]

Slidell505 wrote...

Get. The. **** out.

[bzombo]

Tirigon wrote...

filetemo wrote...

nikki191 wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

The best leveling is the way it´s handled in Oblivion.

i liked it but its open to abuse more than an xp system is.. casting a spell over and over to raise your skill .. yeah it should happen that way but people will abuse it

oblivion:

run
get stuck against a wall while running
leave the computer and go buy groceries
maximized running skill
profit

So what? If you run for 3 hours, your skill in running DOES improve, even in real life.


And most skills are learned by repetition. Casting a spell over and over is what the mages in the circle do to learn their skills, after all.........

ummm....if you leave it overnight, say 6-8 hours and maximize your running skill, does that really seem realistic? if that's all it took, everyone could run a marathon. just run 8 hours straight the day before and you're as good as you can be. plus, no one can run that long without pause. it's a poor system. have you ever run for 3 hours straight even? without stopping at all? it's impossible. not jogging, running. it just doesn't work well. in theory it sounds good, but in practice it's horrible.

[L33TDAWG]

No

[AlanC9]

Blackbaron15 wrote...

The old system works so what the hell is the point of changing it?

Because a different system would work better?

I'ts OK to disagree that the change would actually make the game better; that's what the thread's for. But to say that there's no point to changing anything that works? So we should be playing Pool of Radiance now? Or Ultima 4?

[Chuvvy]

Tirigon wrote...

Shiroukai wrote...


Truth be told, you contributed pretty much as much as Slidell with a post like that.

You´re the guy who posted the "new screenshot" so it´s probably unnecessary to explain anything to you, but....

I did in fact like the leveling in Oblivion, and I think it is the best approach I have seen so far.

That was a decent troll post, addmitidly he should have embedded the link and linked to a rick roll. But still it was a good attempt. Better than most.

[Tirigon]

bzombo wrote...

ummm....if you leave it overnight, say 6-8 hours and maximize your running skill, does that really seem realistic? if that's all it took, everyone could run a marathon. just run 8 hours straight the day before and you're as good as you can be. plus, no one can run that long without pause. it's a poor system. have you ever run for 3 hours straight even? without stopping at all? it's impossible. not jogging, running. it just doesn't work well. in theory it sounds good, but in practice it's horrible.

I can´t help but agreeing, but see. You can run 8 hours straight in DAO too. The only difference is that you won´t get better because of it. And fyi, I think that´s good. The atheltics skill in Oblivion was useless crap, imo.

But I still think that for those skills who are worth having, leveling them by using makes sense.

[AlanC9]

Pity this turned into a debate about the TES leveling system. I suppose a learn-by-doing system could be done right, but I've never seen it done right yet. I'm not sure it's worth it to actually try.



As for removing kill XP, it's a good idea. Many of the better NWN1 and 2 mods did just that, and played better than the respective OCs. But I don't think it's likely to happen. Bio's already hurt the feelings of people who are attached to CRPG traditions a lot. They probably don't want to do any more of this, especially since their comment about DA being the spiritual successor to BG had the unfortunate side effect of turning DA's brand identity into "museum of obsolete CRPG mechanics."

[tmp7704]

TMZuk wrote...

That's right. Get rid of the killpoints, and let us attempt to create a more "realistic" feel to the game when it comes to killing, instead of the legalized and glorified mass-murderer approach.

XP per kill is a TERRIBLE oldfashioned idea, which most modern PnP RPG's, besides DnD, have long left behind.

It discourages any attempts at finding options other than fighting (..)

One catch to that; since the xp and levels are largely utilized just to increase one's combat-related abilities and very little else, it makes sense to associate the gains here with combat rather than other things. So by trying to tie it with something else may improve realism slightly in some area while breaking it in the other area at the same time.

[Quercus]

Oblivion's level system was so bad that you actually had to do the opposite to not get a crappy char, but that's also the fault of the level scaling enemies.



Every time you gained a total of 10 skill points (I believe it was 10, not sure) in any of your major skills you will get a level if you sleep, and can add some points to any of your stats.

But the flaw was that you could only get bonus stat points from the skills you use the most, and 10 skill point in skills binded by a certain stat would have cause the max bonus.

And to enhance this you had to actually make your class build on the minor skills, since they didnt make you level if you gained 10 skill points. Which resulted that you could get all your important skills to increase by 10 points, which will left you on a level up with all your important stats with a +4 (I think it was +4, been a while since I played that game) bonus.



So yea, the oblivion way of gaining exp was heavily flawed.

Slidell505 wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

Shiroukai wrote...





Truth be told, you contributed pretty much as much as Slidell with a post like that.

You´re the guy who posted the "new screenshot" so it´s probably unnecessary to explain anything to you, but....



I did in fact like the leveling in Oblivion, and I think it is the best approach I have seen so far.

That was a decent troll post, addmitidly he should have embedded the link and linked to a rick roll. But still it was a good attempt. Better than most.

Glad to see someone saw the funside of it. Kinda hoped it made peoples imagination run with making up think they saw in the blank screenshot.

But yea, I could have expected the way it turned out to be with the heavy seriousness rating this community has.

[DaySeeker]

I am a big fan of this idea, but for this game, I would like to know more about the enemy and my goal. Sparring the darkspawn in DAO wouldn't have helped a whole bunch. The missions were set up that there was a big baddie in the way and the only way to stop the badness is with killing.



Now, if there were human or animal enemies, or if the darkspawn are more humanized (as they were in Awakening) I would want to avoid killing. I wish games would move more towards the model the OP espouses so that killing bore some sort of consequence and gravity and the player is not just playing the role of a meat grinder.



Implementing this would seem to require the creation of all kinds of complex systems. It would be nice though, even if it were in more situations.

[Tirigon]

Shiroukai wrote...

Oblivion's level system was so bad that you actually had to do the opposite to not get a crappy char, but that's also the fault of the level scaling enemies.

Every time you gained a total of 10 skill points (I believe it was 10, not sure) in any of your major skills you will get a level if you sleep, and can add some points to any of your stats.
But the flaw was that you could only get bonus stat points from the skills you use the most, and 10 skill point in skills binded by a certain stat would have cause the max bonus.
And to enhance this you had to actually make your class build on the minor skills, since they didnt make you level if you gained 10 skill points. Which resulted that you could get all your important skills to increase by 10 points, which will left you on a level up with all your important stats with a +4 (I think it was +4, been a while since I played that game) bonus.
So yea, the oblivion way of gaining exp was heavily flawed.

Yea, the attribute distribution was indeed. They should make it like in a mod for Oblivion I used: you would still level whenever you have 10 major skill upgrades, but you would receive a certain amount of attribute points you could distribute totally free. I think it was 12 attribute points per level-up for 1-6, 10 for 6-10 and so forth up to 5 points per levelup for level 36+
This was really great, imo.

Glad to see someone saw the funside of it. Kinda hoped it made peoples imagination run with making up think they saw in the blank screenshot.
But yea, I could have expected the way it turned out to be with the heavy seriousness rating this community has.

I would have seen the funny side if it would, you know, have been funny. But imo it wasn´t.
Maybe it´s just because the story of the emperor´s new clothes which you can only see if you´re intelligent but in fact don´t exist sucks, imo. So I dislike every variation of it.

[Chuvvy]

Tirigon wrote...
No. Seriously guys, stop having fun.

Fixed it.

[Tirigon]

Slidell505 wrote...

Tirigon wrote...
No. Seriously guys, stop having fun.

Fixed it.

Lol, fail.

In fact, I spend more time having fun here than you, I even got timebanned for having fun once....

So, funnily, no. You fail:kissing:

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

In ME2 I still killed everything I could. Pretty much had to to proceed in most missions. I don't really see how that's an advantage.

[fchopin]

Slidell505 wrote...

Get. The. **** out.

Agree...


None of this ME2 rubbish or we are off to Mars