702 réponses à ce sujet

[DOYOURLABS]

 How bout no

[Sidney]

Haexpane wrote...
If we want to talk immersion, the "mission complete" screens in ME2 IMO are 100X more "immersion breaking" than XP numbers.

Also the fact that bosses and mini bosses drop NO LOOT, no armor, no weapons, no credits, nothing. Again I feel that is far more destructive to immersion.  I kill a boss and there is not even a corpse to examine.  It' just disappears, like barrels rolling off screen in Donkey Kong

You're funny. I like you.

You do realize that most military units do after action reports. That's pretty common.

I'm also not sure what "learning in the field" really means. If you've ever been in combat what you know and what you do is what you've practiced. The only thing combat teaches you by and large is what getting shot at feels like. You might finish a mission and then go back and review what you've learned and practice new things but there's not a lot of improv. Sports teams also spend vast amounts of time practicing what they will do when they go "under fire" and, again, they run what they practice. They do not learn things on the field in the same way an RPG allows you to dream up whole new skills.

No idea where this looting rant comes from but after I've shot them to holy hades, whapped them with an Inferno and then crushed them with a slam I'm not shocked there's precius little left in the aftermath. I'm always curious how so much stuff survicved my fireballs, sword hits, hammer falls and icestorms in DAO. I'm different that way.

[Sidney]

Haexpane wrote...

1. Deer hunting is a great example of broken balance.  The hunters are extremely over powered, using high tech military grade weapons, tricks(cheats) like deer urine or food bait, and they exploit this advantage to a disgusting degree.

I'm not talking real life deer hunters, I'm talking about in the game. Those guys with bows and arrows? I mean they're doing the same thing to deer you're doing to wolves - or does it only count if they're comin' right for you? They do it day after day, they should all be leveling up, and myabe if they kill a Boss Deer he'll drop a set of magical +3 antlers for them.

As for "high grade military weapons" ( I told you you were funny) how is a gun any worse than dropping a mgaical pillar of fire on a bear or petrifying a wolf and then shattering him with another spell? I mean you can hardly talk much balance when the world allows you to go monkey nuts like that.

[Haexpane]

Sidney wrote...

You're funny. I like you.

Extremely week attempt at an insult.  I expect you do this frequently.

[Haexpane]

Sidney wrote...
  I mean you can hardly talk much balance when the world allows you to go monkey nuts like that.

I've already posted many times what we all know, DAO is not balanced.  Never has been.

[Tirigon]

Haexpane wrote...

Mass Effect 2 is killing me w/ the "this gun immediately makes all other guns worthless" "RPG" system.  At times I feel like I'm playing Halo again or something.

Please, you can´t be serious. Halo´s combat is by far more interesting and challenging than ME2s.

[Tirigon]

Haexpane wrote...


Also the fact that bosses and mini bosses drop NO LOOT, no armor, no weapons, no credits, nothing. Again I feel that is far more destructive to immersion.  I kill a boss and there is not even a corpse to examine.  It' just disappears, like barrels rolling off screen in Donkey Kong

Alien vs Predator gets it right in this aspect. If you kill someone, you don´t get loot or money or something (because Aliens don´t wear any, and humans don´t need stuff from an alien corpse whose acid would kill them), but you have a nice, usually mutilated, body lying around that doesn´t disappear in the case of humans. Also, you can collect heads as trophy when you´re a predator, while you can eat the human´s brains as Alien.

It´s just too funny to collect as many trophys as possible (though I do wonder where the Predators put the 20+ heads I usually get....)

[Hollingdale]

Lol this is funny, you get the impression when you read the OP that Origins is a retarded game for having XP per kill and that the rest of the gaming world has abandoned it for something more realistic long ago, thus the angry tone.

Of course that's completely wrong thus the missdirected anger. If you want Bioware to abandon the exp system (which works fine and is used by almost the entire RPG gaming world) I suggest coming up with a good alternative and encouraging them to try it rather than scream angrily at them that exp is ****.

The tone of the OP can have quite a big effect on the discussion that follows y know.

Modifié par Hollingdale, 08 août 2010 - 07:06 .

[AlanC9]

 Hollingdale, you must have missed the part where he said it was obsolete in PnP RPGs. Kill XP isn't obsolete in CRPGs, but they're kind of a museum of obsolete RPG design.,

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

Hollingdale wrote...

Lol this is funny, you get the impression when you read the OP that Origins is a retarded game for having XP per kill and that the rest of the gaming world has abandoned it for something more realistic long ago, thus the angry tone.

Of course that's completely wrong thus the missdirected anger. If you want Bioware to abandon the exp system (which works fine and is used by almost the entire RPG gaming world) I suggest coming up with a good alternative and encouraging them to try it rather than scream angrily at them that exp is ****.

The tone of the OP can have quite a big effect on the discussion that follows y know.

The OP's tone notwithstanding, there has been plenty of discussion of other options.  The discussion has been useful for illustrating the strangely narrow view some people have of what defines an RPG.  The definition is so nebulous that many have simply defined the RPG as "what I'm used to".

[Tirigon]

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

The OP's tone notwithstanding, there has been plenty of discussion of other options.  The discussion has been useful for illustrating the strangely narrow view some people have of what defines an RPG.  The definition is so nebulous that many have simply defined the RPG as "what I'm used to".

Indeeed. That´s because everyone here has been playing RPGs since the very first and therefore must know better than everyone else.

[captain.subtle]

Ok. Let me repeat:

VAMPIRE: BLOODLINES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Never made me feel inadequate! Great design overcomes the inherent defect of objective based XP. There is NO mission you have to force with low level and get all strung up sideways up.

Modifié par captain.subtle, 08 août 2010 - 10:03 .

[wowpwnslol]

TMZuk wrote...

That's right. Get rid of the killpoints, and let us attempt to create a more "realistic" feel to the game when it comes to killing, instead of the legalized and glorified mass-murderer approach.

XP per kill is a TERRIBLE oldfashioned idea, which most modern PnP RPG's, besides DnD, have long left behind.

It discourages any attempts at finding options other than fighting, and makes people chase around the whole map in order to wipe out every single opponent, and creates these absurd situations there was so many of in DA:O, where a party of four somehow manages to wipe out a forest full of werewolves.

One of the few good things that ME2 implemented was mission xp. A far better system, although it needs a lot of improvement over ME2. What it needs is:

-to actually present other options than fighting.

-hidden bonus xp for discovering stuff, finding solutions, sneaking past the guard etc, etc.

-more roleplay, as the combat in DA:O and even more in ME2 was so much just a filler between the actual RP situations.

-variable xp outcome, instead of the fixed amounts in ME2.

In ME2 the mission-xp system is marred by the fact that you have to fight all the time anyway. Playing a sneaky assasin type is impossile. That was perhaps possible to a degree in DA:O, but in order to get some xp, you had to kill, kill, kill. And truly, when reaching my fourth playthrough, I do wish I could fast-forward the combat.

Another thing I'd like to get rid of, or at least be able to disable is the achievements. Achievements are such a moodbreaker. It feels like some stupid arcade-game, and not as an RPG when those things suddenly flash on the screen. If people like them, then fine, just give those who don't like them the option of disabling them.

No.

[Tirigon]

wowpwnslol wrote...


No.

Your name suggests you like WOW.

Your argument is invalid.

[iTomes]

Tirigon wrote...

wowpwnslol wrote...


No.

Your name suggests you like WOW.

Your argument is invalid.

this.

[wowpwnslol]

Tirigon wrote...

wowpwnslol wrote...


No.

Your name suggests you like WOW.

Your argument is invalid.

This means a lot coming from the biggest retard on the forums. Really it does.

[wowpwnslol]

Tirigon wrote...

this

Writing "this", just makes you look like an idiot. Grats.

Modifié par wowpwnslol, 09 août 2010 - 03:27 .

[iTomes]

"This means a lot coming from the biggest retard on the forums. Really it does. Go kill yourself."



this comes from the guy who cant edit his post correctly. anyhow, the point stands. your post didn't really express anything, tough thats not the big thing. the question is: does calling someone a "retard" really enforce your point?

[iTomes]

wowpwnslol wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

this

Writing "this", just makes you look like an idiot. Grats.

funny. a) you just made that post to correct a mistake you made. you actually did almost the same thing a few posts before so complaining about me really doesn't make you look smart.

[wowpwnslol]

iTomes wrote...

"This means a lot coming from the biggest retard on the forums. Really it does. Go kill yourself."

this comes from the guy who cant edit his post correctly. anyhow, the point stands. your post didn't really express anything, tough thats not the big thing. the question is: does calling someone a "retard" really enforce your point?

Check out TIrigon's post history. This moron actually likes Oblivion and thinks my opinions are invalid. The irony is so thick here, you can cut it with a knife.

[iTomes]

wowpwnslol wrote...

iTomes wrote...

"This means a lot coming from the biggest retard on the forums. Really it does. Go kill yourself."

this comes from the guy who cant edit his post correctly. anyhow, the point stands. your post didn't really express anything, tough thats not the big thing. the question is: does calling someone a "retard" really enforce your point?

Check out TIrigon's post history. This moron actually likes Oblivion and thinks my opinions are invalid. The irony is so thick here, you can cut it with a knife.

oh i know those posts, used to write in this thread, too. at least until the arguments became repetive. anyhow, everybody has its own opinion on that and if you like the current system (i actually do the same) thats fine. but you should post arguments. just writing "no" doesn't really make sense xD.

[Kritanakom]

wowpwnslol wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

this

Writing "this", just makes you look like an idiot. Grats.

wowpwnslol wrote...


No.

Writing "no", just makes you look like an idiot. Grats.

[wowpwnslol]

iTomes wrote...

wowpwnslol wrote...

iTomes wrote...

"This means a lot coming from the biggest retard on the forums. Really it does. Go kill yourself."

this comes from the guy who cant edit his post correctly. anyhow, the point stands. your post didn't really express anything, tough thats not the big thing. the question is: does calling someone a "retard" really enforce your point?

Check out TIrigon's post history. This moron actually likes Oblivion and thinks my opinions are invalid. The irony is so thick here, you can cut it with a knife.

oh i know those posts, used to write in this thread, too. at least until the arguments became repetive. anyhow, everybody has its own opinion on that and if you like the current system (i actually do the same) thats fine. but you should post arguments. just writing "no" doesn't really make sense xD.

I am sorry, but the original post was so incredibly stupid, "no" is the only answer that it deserves. If I made a post like "DA2 should have aliens and spaceships" - what answers would it deserve? Exactly. Getting rid of XP for kills is as dumb as it gets.

[iTomes]

"I am sorry, but the original post was so incredibly stupid, "no" is the only answer that it deserves. If I made a post like "DA2 should have aliens and spaceships" - what answers would it deserve? Exactly. Getting rid of XP for kills is as dumb as it gets."



there are games like vampire2 that did it rather well. i dont think that its the right way to go for dragon age, but that doesn't made the initial post totally stupid. if the OP wants to express his opinion let him. if you want to comment it go ahead but then at least try to express your opinion. i mean, if someone would write "lets get spaceships into da" id propably say something about "totally lore inacurate, please go back to youre bridge or play wow or commit suicide" or something. saying "no" isn't the right way to go, especially if the thread is almost sunken into the abbyss again and after 15 (!) hours someone copys the ops initial and says "no" and just reanimates the thread....