702 réponses à ce sujet

[Kritanakom]

wowpwnslol wrote...
 Getting rid of XP for kills is as dumb as it gets.

There are some who would have said "enemies scaling to level is as dumb as it gets".

Or even "no respawns (and thus no grinding for exp and money) is as dumb as it gets".

I think this is the next logical step to draw the player's focus from their xp bar and to the actual game.
We can now focus on the story and make decisions without worrying about how much xp we will get for killing rather than sparing the enemy.
We can now go where we want, when we want, without worrying about what level we must reach first.

Nobody likes grinding... unless they think WoW pwns... lol.

[iTomes]

"I think this is the next logical step to draw the player's focus from their xp bar and to the actual game.

We can now focus on the story and make decisions without worrying about how much xp we will get for killing rather than sparing the enemy.

We can now go where we want, when we want, without worrying about what level we must reach first."



i totally dont get how youre point is da related sorry. you know, that we cant always go the peacefull way simply has the reason that it is much more expensive to make for the devs. not that we dont get xp for it. i mean, come on, if someone really thought about the xp in the 2-3 places where he actually could avoid a larger fight, he actually is the god of all grinders, wether you like it or not. i didn't really care for my level and am usually not even lvl 20 when i complete the game, so im clearly failing in getting your point.

[Tirigon]

wowpwnslol wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

wowpwnslol wrote...


No.

Your name suggests you like WOW.

Your argument is invalid.

This means a lot coming from the biggest retard on the forums. Really it does.

I am surprised you think like that if all you need to do to see a bigger retard is to look in the mirror :D:D:D

I shall just take it as a compliment because apparently I made an impression on you. I would NOT call you the biggest retard here, you´re too boring for that rank. You´re just a sidekick-retard, so to speak. Not funny, not even especially noteworthy, just stupid like so many others....

[Tirigon]

wowpwnslol wrote...


Check out TIrigon's post history. This moron actually likes Oblivion and thinks my opinions are invalid. The irony is so thick here, you can cut it with a knife.

Ah yes, so having played AND BEATEN a game that YOU couldn´t beat because you didn´t understand how to level up makes one a moron?

Good to know.


I would rather think that if you don´t understand Oblivion that just proves how dumb you are, but of course I might be wrong.
(More probably not, though:kissing:)

[Kritanakom]

iTomes wrote...
we cant always go the peacefull way simply has the reason that it is much more expensive to make for the devs.

Actually, I thought we had a very reasonable amount of chances to avoid combat. On my first playthrough I leveled up coercion as soon as possible so I could take every opportunity to convince/intimidate people not to fight.

iTomes wrote...
i mean, come on, if someone really thought about the xp in the 2-3 places where he actually could avoid a larger fight, he actually is the god of all grinders,

Tell me, did you go into all of the rooms in the Circle Tower and kill the abominations there? If so, why? Only three of those doors open automatically to send enemies to you. The others you could have walked past and still finished the quest.
The same can be said of almost every area in the game. There are a bunch of darkspawn/werewolves/friggin'bears that are rather out of the way, and that you could sneak past even without stealth. But we still go and kill them because of their delicious xp. Besides that there are...

Battles that can be avoided by persuasion:
Bandits before Lothering. Ser Landry and his three knights. Two barfights in Denerim with 5-8 mercenaries each. Swiftrunner (first encounter), and the final confrontation with the Lady of the Forest/Zathrian can be completed with NO COMBAT AT ALL, but most don't do this because of the boss xp and phat lewts. Several fights with dwarven thugs in Orzammar. Many choose not to send First Enchanter Irving or Jowan to confront Connor's demon, despite Irvings badassness and Jowan's funny dialogue, because they want their mage to get the xp.
Two *swarms* of goons and two xp-rich bosses in the Unrest in the Alienage quest can be completely avoided with enough coercion.
And of course, there's Ser Cauthrien. I can never bring myself to kill her, despite her being an xp-rich boss with an awesome sword.

Battles that can be avoided with money/plot:
Dwarven thugs in Orzammar, Elven guard in Unrest in the Alienage. One can avoid fighting a single cultist in Haven before the Frostback Mountains, just by minding one's own business and not starting anything. Suffice to say that few do this. Several of the rogue-only quests in Denerim can be done with zero fighting if one is willing to fork over some cash or goes the long way.

Battles that can be avoided by stealth: see below.

iTomes wrote...
wether you like it or not. i didn't really care for my level and am usually not even lvl 20 when i complete the game, so im clearly failing in getting your point.

I don't like it. I formed a team of a stealth rogue, leliana, and Zevran, and I snuck past any enemies I could. It was the most fun playthrough I've ever done (being a sneaky ninja/assassin/bard!!!) but I beat the game at lvl 14.

Modifié par Kritanakom, 09 août 2010 - 04:19 .

[Tirigon]

wowpwnslol wrote...

I am sorry, but the original post was so incredibly stupid, "no" is the only answer that it deserves. If I made a post like "DA2 should have aliens and spaceships" - what answers would it deserve? Exactly. Getting rid of XP for kills is as dumb as it gets.

I won´t even try to get a point to you, or to explain why getting rid of kill-exp is NOT dumb, but to answer your first question:

Aliens and spaceships in DA2 would be great, especially if the aliens are actually Xenomorphs and Predators.

[Tirigon]

Kritanakom wrote...

Tell me, did you go into all of the rooms in the Circle Tower and kill the abominations there? If so, why? Only three of those doors open automatically to send enemies to you. The others you could have walked past and still finished the quest.

I did kill them all for roleplaying-purposes: I want to save the mages, so I have to kill ALL the abominations, or the templars will call annullment on the mages.
Of course, there is also the fact that only an idiot would let a horde of rabid monsters behind himself while moving into unknown territory. You might need to retreat, and then you DON´T want to run into the 10 guys you sneaked past, right?

[Kritanakom]

Tirigon wrote...

Kritanakom wrote...

Tell me, did you go into all of the rooms in the Circle Tower and kill the abominations there? If so, why? Only three of those doors open automatically to send enemies to you. The others you could have walked past and still finished the quest.

I did kill them all for roleplaying-purposes: I want to save the mages, so I have to kill ALL the abominations, or the templars will call annullment on the mages.
Of course, there is also the fact that only an idiot would let a horde of rabid monsters behind himself while moving into unknown territory. You might need to retreat, and then you DON´T want to run into the 10 guys you sneaked past, right?

A Very good in-character reason. I applaud you for it. But many players don't think it through to that extent. These players just kill them because they're there, and because they make the endorphin-releasing Exp bar go up!


Personally, I knew that the second the Rite of Annulment arrived, the Templars would come in and SLAUGHTER ALL THE CHILDREN WYNNE LEFT BEHIND, regardless of whether they looked like abominations or not. So I marched my party straight up to save Irving as fast as I could. Only Irving could call the Templars off! Those poor mage children... caught between fade demons and human demons with pointy swords! :'(


But the point is that if the xp system is changed so that we get the same amount of exp regardless of whether you chose the Tirigon route or the Kritanakom route, players will be more free to make whichever choice they want!!

Modifié par Kritanakom, 09 août 2010 - 04:42 .

[Haexpane]

Most of us play DAO not "in character" but as a videogame. This isn't a LARP.

[TMZuk]

wowpwnslol wrote...
I am sorry, but the original post was so incredibly stupid, "no" is the only answer that it deserves. If I made a post like "DA2 should have aliens and spaceships" - what answers would it deserve? Exactly. Getting rid of XP for kills is as dumb as it gets.

Thank you. Really. When someone like you starts throwing insults, and debating like a spoiled seven-year old, then I'm rather convinced that what I wrote in my original post was not entirely off target.

I am sorry if I seek to deprive you of your adrenaline boost each time you see the xp-bar moving upwards, but nonewithstanding your pathetic counter-arguments, and more importantly: In spite of several considerably more intelligent posters who are also in favour of the current system, the fact remais that we are quite a few who consider a cRPG excactly that: A computer Role Playing Game.

That means Role Play is the key to the game, not hack and slash. If you want a diablo-clone, then say so, but hack and slash dungeon-crawlers are not RPG's.

Finally, unless there are something new to be added, there's no point in keeping the thread alive. Insulting other people will not affect Bioware's descisions, one way or another. But quite possible it WILL get the thread locked.

[iTomes]

Haexpane wrote...

Most of us play DAO not "in character" but as a videogame. This isn't a LARP.

thank you for this totally useless information. its not appreciated. thank you.

[Haexpane]

iTomes wrote...

Haexpane wrote...

Most of us play DAO not "in character" but as a videogame. This isn't a LARP.

thank you for this totally useless information. its not appreciated. thank you.

Nope not useless, it's 100% useful.  It helps explains why LARPers are so upset w/ DA.

[Kritanakom]

Haexpane wrote...

iTomes wrote...

Haexpane wrote...

Most of us play DAO not "in character" but as a videogame. This isn't a LARP.

thank you for this totally useless information. its not appreciated. thank you.

Nope not useless, it's 100% useful.  It helps explains why LARPers are so upset w/ DA.

LARPers are upset with DA? Is there a "LARPers against Dragon Age" movement? Do they have a website or something? If someone complains how do we even know if they're a LARPer...
I rather thought the more enthusiastic role-players (Live Action or otherwise) have been very supportive of Dragon Age so far, at least Origins. After all, the game had a great deal of old DnD tropes and more freedom than many fantasy games out there. More freedom means more chances for players to customize their own character, which is central to what roleplaying is about.

But Haexpane would never just make stuff up! She probably has dozens of polls indicating that most Dragon Age players don't at all want to customize their character and have  their play-style reflect said customization (e.g. roleplaying)!

That explains why people are sad they can't be elves or dwarves in DA2, right?
They don't care about the story at all! What do you think they are, LARPers? No, they're just playing it as a videogame.

[Tirigon]

Haexpane wrote...

Most of us play DAO not "in character" but as a videogame. This isn't a LARP.

Well, I have never in my life played LARP or even tabletop RPGs, and probably never will, and I still like to roleplay my character.

If I would want a videogame without story instead of an RPG I would play Call of Duty or WoW or some sh!t like that, not DAO.

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

slimgrin wrote...

Adriano87 wrote...

Keep XP per kill.

^ This. And add new ways to earn xp, without killing. Problem solved.

Many of the differences in mission- or kill-based levelling are semantic, anyway.  If the illusion of an experience reward is necessary to drive the action, then the gameplay needs a re-design.

[Tirigon]

slimgrin wrote...

What would you have driving the action? Other than story, of course.

The action itself! In a good game like Alien vs Predator you don´t NEED a reason to kill; the combat itself is so funny, and the finishing moves so amazing, that you kill everyone just for the fun of it, even in the few cases when you could sneak past!

[Gatt9]

Kritanakom wrote...

wowpwnslol wrote...
 Getting rid of XP for kills is as dumb as it gets.

There are some who would have said "enemies scaling to level is as dumb as it gets".

Or even "no respawns (and thus no grinding for exp and money) is as dumb as it gets".

I think this is the next logical step to draw the player's focus from their xp bar and to the actual game.
We can now focus on the story and make decisions without worrying about how much xp we will get for killing rather than sparing the enemy.
We can now go where we want, when we want, without worrying about what level we must reach first.

Nobody likes grinding... unless they think WoW pwns... lol.

Thing is...that's the description of Tomb Raider.

Start taking away RPG features,  and you very quickly end up with Adventure Games and not RPG's.  Oblivion is the perfect example,  Xp,  Character Development,  and Character Skill were all irrelevant,  and the end result was an Adventure Game where you could become the Arena Champion as soon as you walked out the intro dungeon.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Haexpane wrote...

Most of us play DAO not "in character" but as a videogame. This isn't a LARP.

It's a roleplaying game.  That's different from a videogame.

A videogame is an exercise for the player.  A roleplaying game is an experience for the character.  Very different.

If you don't want to roleplay, why do you choose roleplaying games?

[Tirigon]

Gatt9 wrote...


Start taking away RPG features,  and you very quickly end up with Adventure Games and not RPG's.  Oblivion is the perfect example,  Xp,  Character Development,  and Character Skill were all irrelevant,  and the end result was an Adventure Game where you could become the Arena Champion as soon as you walked out the intro dungeon.

Oblivion is not an adventure game.

[Haexpane]

Gatt9 wrote...

  Oblivion is the perfect example,  Xp,  Character Development,  and Character Skill were all irrelevant,  and the end result was an Adventure Game where you could become the Arena Champion as soon as you walked out the intro dungeon.

And for your trouble you get absurdly heavy gear that you can't even carry or wear for another 20 levels, and by the time  you have enough STR to use it, the gear is worthless trash Man I love that game well I wanted to, I tried to, I did everything there was to do in the game and my character finally became godlike after I exploited the leveling system

[Haexpane]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

 

If you don't want to roleplay, why do you choose roleplaying games?

RPG videogames is a genre of games.  It's not about "playing the role", if you really want to play a role, sign up for a play.

Why choose RPG videogames?  Because the genre is fun, I enjoy the gameplay.  I like leveling up and exploring areas, I also enjoy a good story when a game bothers telling one.

I don't consider DAO to have a particularly good story.  It's not horrible, but "kill the evil spawning things from the dark" isn't exactly a great yarn.

I'm not even sure what people mean when they say they are "roleplaying" their character in DAO.  It's not an open world game, you only have 2-3 choices of dialog.  Most of them result in either getting some gold or killing someone.

THe story is told to you, you don't drive it or change it much at all.

Maybe Oblivion you can pretend to be a Vampire or something, but I don't see very much "playing the role" in DAO at all

[Hatem]

They don't have to remove it but at the very least they could give the same amount of xp for killing a person as well as letting him go if such an option arises. Most of the time I kill Hermit not because I don't like him but because I get 130+ xp for his death and even more xp from the bandits who overrun his camp. The list goes on...